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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Our 6th visit to the Stately Home.....

988 replies

oneplusone · 19/05/2009 11:52

Hi all, took the liberty of starting a new thread. Keep on posting!

OP posts:
PinkyMinxy · 14/07/2009 21:52

Oh OPO I can relate. said lady is forever giving me all kinds of advice, sometimes telling me what to do. I used to feel like HYacinth Bucket's neighbour when I went to her house. But it is all her anxiety, and she is putting it all onto her eldest son, it's very sad.

oneplusone · 15/07/2009 14:12

I have also realised about myself that i don't tell anybody about bad/worrying news, but instead i keep it to myself and worry myself sick and get stressed out until the news almost bursts out of me in a row caused because i am stressed.

Or if i do manage to tell somebody before i get to bursting point, i always try and cushion the blow, or shield the other person from the full impact of the bad news. I take on all the anxiety and worry myself and try and spare everyone around me including DH. It is ridiculous and DH is actually far better than me at problem solving and doesn't get stressed out.

Again i know this is a childhood habit. I can't actually remember even one incident of me as a child telling/talking to either of my parents about something that was worrying/bothering me and being reassured and feeling that the worrying burden had been lifted from my shoulders by them. It must be a very old habit for me that is completely ingrained but I really want to break it as it is causing me a lot of problems.

I notice with my friend who i have mentioned above, whenever she has any problem of any sort, she seems to immediately be able to talk about it, to friends and family, in fact she seems to be able to tell anybody who is willing to listen! But i can see that by doing that she is lessening the worry for herself and sharing it amongst many people and that i think is a good way of dealing with things. It's what i would like to aim for and it sounds simple but i find it so very hard to not internalise all my problems and instead to talk about them openly. I realise that often i don't even consciously think about my problems, they almost seem to hover between my conscious and subconscious mind and so they become a constant worry at the back of my mind instead of something in the forefront where i can talk about it and deal with it.

Right now i am worried about the coming weekend. DH is going to be away, i will be alone with the DC's. What i am worried about is DS missing his daddy and there will be nothing i can do about it until DH returns on monday. DS is so attached to DH and misses him badly whilst he his work all day, but at least he sees him every evening. I think DS will be distraught and inconsolable at DH being away for 4 whole days, and I am worried about how i will cope. It breaks my heart when DS cries simply because he misses his daddy so much. I imagine he feels how i feel when i feel a desperate longing for a mother; I feel it like a physical pain and i am sure that is what DS feels too. I don't want to put him through that and yet i cannot ask DH not to go on his trip which has been planned for ages and is important to him. I know i can keep the DC's busy during the days, it's the nights and evenings I am worried about. I don't feel i can talk to DH about it as i know he won't understand as of course DS only cries for DH when DH is not around so DH has never seen or heard DS's cries for himself.

OP posts:
FabBakerGirlIsBack · 15/07/2009 14:15

I am going to catch up in a bit but how funny I was just thinking about an issue with him and this thread came up on active convos.

Bottom line, I wanted me and him to be friends and be there for each other and I think why I have been so upset and couldn't let go is because I like to fix things and the mum in me worries about everyone.

smithfield · 15/07/2009 14:38

Hi there. Sorry had no laptop and so no internet for a while.

AN just wanted to second what pm and and opo have said wrt your bro.
I think you can feel pleased for him that he is working so hard on his stuff but without feeling responsible for him.
You are not responsible for how others feel or behave. I know you know that yourself logically but I think we all need to keep hearing it over and over in order for it to sink in.
You have come so far with pulling away from feeling responsible already and I dont think you would be human if you didnt have moments where you felt self doubt.
Your mothers actions and reactions are probably as they have always been but by cutting contact they seem more pronounced to you now?

I am feeling very low physically at the moment. I think it might be significant that it has come at the same time as going back to work after a two week break.
What I keep trying to get clear in my mind is what is truly behind my thoughts and emotions.
If I am honest I have always found work a struggle. I know now this is because I have huge issues with control and being controlled.
I always feel like work is a controlling environment and I want to rebel against it just as I rebelled against my mothers control when I was a child.
Its not an agressive form of rebellion but more a passive aggressive. So for example I would never do homework or revise for exams because I knew that this is what my mother wanted from me more than anything. She wanted me to be academically gifted like she was but not because she wanted that for me but she wanted it for her.
It seems I cant let go of this feeling of bucking against what others want or expect of me. The thing is that now I realise that by rebelling in this way I am only hurting myself because I am not showing anyone what I am capable of. I am making more stress and anxiety for myself in the workplace by not soing things when I should.
On the other side of the coin I am not sure I care what anyone thinks I am capable of anymore. The desire in me used to be so strong to prove myself despite my acting to the contrary.
I went to a work conference last week and I just felt like a fish out of water. Watching people showing off and ass licking. Its all part of the corporate world but I just dont know that it's a world I care enough about.
I feel like there is so much confusion inside of me as to who and what I really am.
The real me got lost somewhere between being someone who could impress my father enough to get his attention and rebelling against the suffocating needs of my mother.
I enjoyed being at home with the children so much while I was off and I think that is genuine and yet I still have doubts.
The doubts are more around losing money and status and worrying if I am using wanting to be with the kids as an excuse to escape from an environment I have never been comfortable in.
I know there is no real answer to this I am just trying to clarify my own thoughts.
I think I am just tired of pretending to be someone that Im not.

FabBakerGirlIsBack · 15/07/2009 14:39

Who do you want to be?

ActingNormal · 15/07/2009 14:45

I feel a bit 'nuts' at the moment when I thought I had it all so sorted for a while!

Reading my ex-neighbour's letter was like listening to another witness' description of seeing signs of what was wrong in mine and my brother's relationship when we were children. It made it seem so real, not just in my head because someone else saw it, and I relived some of the feelings. It reminded me with a shock that it was real and it did happen but I think my brain tries to think of it as something that happened to someone else and by someone else, not my brother who I know now. This would be fine, my brain protects my feelings in this way, except for the fact that I still have the anxiety from childhood which holds me back in what I want to do and makes me feel ill at times, and my irrational fears of being transported back into the past and going through it all again, or my children being deluged by feelings as bad as mine if I even let a tiny bit of badness into their lives without preventing every tiny bad thing from happening to them. My brain's protective strategy blocks me from processing what happened by stopping me from feeling it or thinking about it too much and if I don't process it I will still have the anxiety and irrational fears. I suppose then my neighbour's letter was useful even though it felt painful to read.

My brain separates the person I was as a child from the person I am now and separates the person my brother was as a child from the person he is now. It is how I cope with everyday life without feeling the old feelings too much. My brain tries to dismiss that whole chunk of my life (my childhood) as something that never happened and isn't part of my life and myself. Normally if a memory of childhood comes to me I immediately banish it because it feels too uncomfortable to think about. I think this is the bit which causes me confusion and conflicting feelings. When I see my parents or my brother now, I can see their good points and I can like them and enjoy being with them as the people they are now, from the point of view of the person I am now, who doesn't need very much from them. I can do this because I learnt to block out the past completely when necessary. When I see them I like them and feel for them and feel the urge to try to make them happy. Then I remember things that happened and feel like I am betraying myself for liking people and wanting to make people happy who did things that made me extremely unhappy for a very long time. I feel like it is twisted. I remember how I made myself act like I was enjoying it when my brother was hurting me because I hated the humiliation of him knowing I hated it but didn't have any power to make him stop. It seems almost as twisted as this.

I think I do this denial of the past because I want to have family and if I think about all that happened I am likely to reject them and lose them. I particularly want to have family on my birthday and my children's birthdays and at Christmas and at these times I feel an extra urge to try to get closer to them. When I think about the fact that I am being nice to people who have caused me so much pain I feel angry that this means they are 'getting away with it'. I feel like a mug who will let anyone do what they want to me and I will still come back for more because I am desperate. Then I think about the fact that they haven't totally got away with it because I have told them all exactly what I think of them in my long letters last year and have reduced contact. My parents gave me a 'reduced service' as parents when I was a child and I give them a 'reduced service' as a daughter now. My brother is taking the consequences of his crimes against people by being in prison. This makes me feel better but I still seem to waver in my feeling that I'm doing the right thing with the reduced contact when I feel guilt about their feelings at the times when I like them when I see them as separate people from who they were in the past. I suppose I just need to keep reminding myself why I don't need to feel guilty and practicing this because it still isn't coming naturally yet. I'm finding that to cope with seeing them I have to do this denial of the past thing. I found it difficult on the prison visit just gone though. I've never found it difficult before, but I did this time. And I worry that he can see this as he seems to be able to see right into me and always did seem to be able to do this. I'm finding it really difficult to get my thoughts in order since and feel like my brain is overworking, trying to process too much stuff at once and is feeling the strain. Sometimes I am consciously thinking about it, making myself think about it, but the rest of the time I can't stop my brain doing it 'on its own' anyway, making me feel tired, confused, unable to concentrate, pent up and anxious.

I didn't think I cared about having family any more but I think things lately have proved that I don't stay in contact just because of guilt about their feelings if I don't but also because it would hurt me too much to cut contact altogether and feel I had no family.

I've been accepting the past more through therapy and the feelings my brother made me have are closer to the surface so it would have been harder to separate his past self from his present self on the visit anyway. But reading my ex-neighbour's letter as well which really made me feel the past made it even harder. My brain was having to work so hard to block out the past on the visit, I found it very tiring. My feeling of wanting to block it out was very strong as well though because of my birthday being recent and the strong feeling of wanting to have family. The more I block something out, the more another part of my brain tries to 'intrude' it into my life, giving me 'flashback' feelings (I don't normally have visual flashbacks apart from in occasional dreams at night), or making my past feelings be triggered by small things that happen in my everyday life now. It feels like my brain is fighting with itself. I feel nuts!

I am giving my brother a chance to change and on one hand it feels right. On the other hand I feel like I might be being stupid and weak. I kept giving my birthmother a chance to change after I kept thinking "this time she has finally been truthful with me and will have an honest and healthy relationship with me now". I wanted to believe that, because I really wanted to have a relationship with her. After one too many times of feeling like she had been untrustworthy though I gave up. I think it takes a lot to give up on these things, it is very hard to let go when you want something so much. (Some of us have transferred this feeling to our relationships with men at different times in our adult lives!). I stubbornly think "I can fix it and it is so worth fixing that I will keep trying until I know for sure it is impossible. I also find it hard to give up on my brother because I know how alone and abandoned he feels in the world because we were both adopted (from separate places) and both had the same cold parents, and I feel the sense of unfairness and that he so deserves for someone not to abandon him. And everything looks like he is changing and is making a huge effort to change and is remorseful for what he has done. When I see him it is hard not to 'believe' him but there are people (probably most people) who would say things like "People don't change, sex offenders don't change, if he was 'mad' all those years why would he change now, you shouldn't trust him".

AAAAaaaarggggh, I am so conflicted! Can I come to terms with having strong feelings that contradict each other? How do I make sense of it? I'm sure none of you can give me an answer to that and maybe have no idea what the hell I am talking about. I'm hoping Therapist can say some things that make me feel clearer when I get to see him, which is difficult now with him away and then school holidays and only a couple of child free days. I feel I really need him right now and he is not here. Then by the time I see him I bet I will have somehow worked it all out!

ActingNormal · 15/07/2009 15:10

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smithfield · 15/07/2009 15:15

AN To me it sounds as though you are grappling with a huge realisation presented to you by your neighbours letter.
I think you can feel both conflicting feelings equally but eventually one will have to win out because I dont think they can live comfortably beside each other.
It also feels from your post that you true feelings frighten you a little or perhaps a lot?

fab- There are some things I know I want to be. A good person, a good mother. I want to be happy and the desire I had before to have things to make me happy doesnt seem to figure strongly anymore. It used to very much so. It comes from wanting to emulate my father and have his drive and killer instinct. It also comes form wanting to compete with my siblings. My brothers care a great deal about power and wealth. My sister does too but she gets her possessions from what my father gives her. I was never comfortable with that because it represented more control.
If I wake up in years to come with a big house full of stuff I would be sad if it meant I had sacrificed time spent with my children.
I would like to do something that feels worthwhile. Being with my children feels worhtwhile. Incredibly hard work but so rewarding.
It was my father who based everything on possessions and I adopted that from him but its isnt real is it. Possesions are meaningless.
My parents had a lot of possesions and a lot of wealth. It didnt make them happy.
fab Am sorry you are struggling again about this guy. I think it is right what everyone has said. That this is a strong attachment you formed as a replacement for what you should have got from you mother. You can know that but feeling it is a whole other thing.
I had a similar fixation from a guy I met when I was 18. I felt like I couldnt be happy unless we were back together.

smithfield · 15/07/2009 15:18

AN You have to decide whether you care enough about your brother because you care about the 'cause' of children given away by their parents and feeling abandoned and alone, to keep helping him despite the difficult feelings about what he has done.

I do think you find it easier to identify with others rather than yourself because of the way you learnt to deal with things. Your brother being adopted brings up all your emothions dressed up as empathy for him because that feels safe. It allows you to feel some of those emotions but safley?
Maybe if you see it this way it will provide more of a detachment.

FabBakerGirlIsBack · 15/07/2009 15:40

I have found that things are less important to me too.

ActingNormal · 15/07/2009 16:21

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ActingNormal · 15/07/2009 16:28

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FabBakerGirlIsBack · 15/07/2009 16:58

I suppose because he knew me right after some bad stuff happened he was the first one to help me. I haven't had any desire to email him which is real progress to me.

PinkyMinxy · 15/07/2009 20:35

Smithfield
I felt exactly as you describe when I went back to work after having DS. First meeting- one of my main clients, the contact I had was a woman who had isssues herself and repeatedly tried to undermine me, and people generally seemed so much more competitive than I realised, and I just didn't really care about the work anyomre. I had felt pushed into it because I had been constantly told what a failure I am and how I did not have the right stuff to do what I really wanted. The work environment I was in was very unhealthy for me emotionally, I know that now, but when I finished it was because I was ill with my second PG and as AN said I think my little shred of self esteem I had clung onto all these years was through that job, because my parents had indicated they approved of it.

A lady in a shop said to me today how proud I must be of DD1's fantastic vocabluary. Two things about this
My parents used to complain that she talks too much
I told the lady that I am very proud of her, but that I would be proud of her anyway, even if she just had a few words.

I suppose that is the point. I am proud of her achievements, but I also have an unconditional pride for my children that parents have.

I could never make my parents proud of me, becuase it's not about anything I achieve, it's about them. If anything my achievements are a threat to them and actively discouraged, and they treat my DD1 the same.

I think about what I want for my children. I want them to feel loved, have a happy life, have the confidence to do the things they want to do, and for them to be able to give love, have good positive relationships.

I suppose you could say I don't want them to feel the way I do - as I struggle with all of these things.

I am finding things very difficult at the moment. My mind feels stuck. My NHS referral has come through and I'm not sure how I feel about that.

Who was tlakign about not discussing problems? Yes I find it near impossible. I block them. I get anxious about them and try to push them down- I never know what to do. "people of character learn to rise above these things" rings in my head. THat was what my father said not so long ago when I told him I had been teased at school for my eye problem. I think that explains why I never share my problems.

oneplusone · 16/07/2009 11:04

smithfield and sakura, i was wondering how things were with your DH's at the moment?

Things are still not good between me and DH. I am beginning to feel at a fundamental level that I simply do not like him. I can see things in him that he cannot see himself, traits that I know he has got directly from his mother. And it turns me off him completely. Which means I never feel like having sex with him which in turn causes problems. I know that my not wanting to have sex with him is simply a symptom of a much deeper problem between us. But he does not seem to want to address this, he just focuses on the not wanting sex issue which to him is the only problem.

I have a lot of resentment towards him. I don't feel he has any respect for me whatsoever. He told me recently that the reason i find things so difficult at home ie looking after the kids and running the house, was because I was so disorganised. This was after he had for the very first time ever spent 4 days and 3 nights alone with the kids whilst i went away on a short break. I feel i cannot live with a man who has so little or even no respect for me, what i have been through, what i am going through. I feel dead inside about DH, i have no feelings left for him which scares me. At least if i felt i hated him, i would know i still felt something. But to feel nothing means my love for him has died. He says he feels neglected and uncared for by me. And the truth is I don't care about him anymore. I only care about the DC's. He is just necessary because he is important to the DC's. He's not important to me. I could quite happily live without him. In fact i would be happier without him.

Have to go, he's here

OP posts:
ActingNormal · 16/07/2009 13:03

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PinkyMinxy · 16/07/2009 14:34

opo I am sorry you are having these difficulties. I have a very low libido at the moment- almost non-existant. I think going thruogh all this stuff and Bfeeding is the main cause. I was talking to DH about it this morning, that it isn't him it's just my urges are not there generally, and that I feel I want to have sex becuase it would make DH feel better but then I feel bad that I would just be doing it because I feel pressured and that also is nice to me or DH. I find it very difficult when DH tells me he is bothered about something between us because I feel tremendous pressure to solve it and that iit is my fault, even if this is not his intention.
I don't know of any of this makes sense to you, but I think fundamentally, aside from the odd wobble I do trust DH, and if you feel you don't I think somethign may well be badly broken between you, and I am so sorry.x

AN I understand wat you are saying, but the stuff my parents said to me went way beyond not praising too much. I was told on a daily basis that I was useless, a piece of shit, cack-handed, too big for my boots, a pain, full of myself, funny looking, the list goe on and on. There would always be someone on hand to wipe the smile off my face, knock me into the middle of next week, take me off my high horse, take me down a peg or two..you get the picture. I think they saw my self esteem as something that needed to be weeded out of me, as if they were doing me a favour. I was often tols off for being too happy, which is very strange since later I was constantly told by them that I used to be a joy to be around because of my sunny disposition.

FabBakerGirlIsBack · 16/07/2009 16:07

I really need to talk about something but are worried someone will see it who shouldn't. What is one supposed to do in those situations?

ActingNormal · 16/07/2009 16:15

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ActingNormal · 16/07/2009 16:20

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FabBakerGirlIsBack · 16/07/2009 16:42

Good idea, thanks.

PinkyMinxy · 16/07/2009 17:12

AN you see now I feel paranoid that I have made out they are worse that they are. I fluctuate constantly between feeling angry and then feeling that I'm makign a big deal out of nothing.

I think it is the whole nice/nasty thing that makes it hardto get a handle on. Often things were said in an angry way, but also they were said as if it was some kind of family in joke, so I would be told not to be so oversenstitive, spoiling everyone's fun. Often they would pretend that they never said those things, but it's funny how they ring in my head like background noise to my entire life.

When DS got his first school report, I could hear myself in my head turning all the positive things that were written into negatives- the sort of thing my parents would do all the time- a curious mind becomes a nuisance, a wide vocabulary becomes a chatterbox, confidence is big-headed or arrogant, and any negative comment would become the main feature of discussion. I didn't say any of those things to my DS, but I could see how strong the conditioning was that I instaNTLY thought those things. My siblings were nver treated this way- they were encouraged to feel proud of their achievements- and we went to lots of award thigns for my siblings, whereas none of mine were attended or even commented upon.

PinkyMinxy · 16/07/2009 17:26

AN I think it is one of the things that happens, that people feel more angry towards the people who could have/should have helped but stoos by and watched you being mistreated. mY father is a quite abusive by himself but he also veyr much does my mother's bidding, and both of them have been bystanders in their time. Therapsit says they collude, but I don't knwo if they do this consciously. I ma not suprised you reserve much of your anger for yur parents, because bad things can happen to children, and it is how the parents react that can be most critical. If they were cold and unresponsive there was no safe haven for you, which is truly horrible.

ActingNormal · 16/07/2009 17:59

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PinkyMinxy · 16/07/2009 21:05

AN the nice/nasty thing is the most damaging part of it, I think, because it leaves me conflicted all the time, and not trusting my own ears/mind.