Our 6th visit to the Stately Home.....

[oneplusone]

Hi all, took the liberty of starting a new thread. Keep on posting!

Sorry, need to waffle on a bit more.

The thing that hurts most about my sisters is the fact that i am dependent on them but they are not dependent on me. So that puts them in a position of power and control in relation to me whether they are aware of it or not. Neither of them are dependent on me, but they are dependent on each other. They are attached to each other and that is why they are constantly drawn to each other. But within their relationship the attachment and dependence is not equal. Middle sister is more attached and more dependent on youngest sister. Youngest sister is not so attached as she is attached to her SIL's and DH's family in general. Her SIL's and family in law are meeting some of her needs I think as ever since she met her now DH, his family seem to have taken her under their wing and seem to almost have adopted her.

But youngest sister's SIL is emigrating soon and i know this will leave a big gap in youngest sister's life as she was very close to her SIL. Her SIL has 3 young children, so youngest sister's daughter had some cousins close by to play with. Now all that is soon to be gone. I wonder if it will drive youngest sister closer to middle sister and there will be more equality in their relationship as the level of dependence will be more even.

I don't think i will figure in any of this. And i know that the attachments which my sisters have to each other will ultimately always disappoint them and hurt them. As they will each be seeing something from the other person that the other person is unable to give them. It was only our parents who could have given my sisters what they are seeking from each other, and other people also. And like i have been, they will forever be disappointed and hurt and let down that the other person who seemed to hold so much promise, is not giving them what they thought they would receive from them.

I am certain though that my sisters will never be able to step outside of their particular drama enough to see what is going on. From what i can tell they are far too enmeshed and trapped in their drama triangle to ever be able to step out of it.

I feel so fortunate that for some reason, I have been able to see what has been going on around me and to deal with it and i feel i am becoming healthier every day.

Fab, you are describing me. I usually feel scared before i open a message/text from either of my sisters. Until you said i hadn't even really realised this consciously for myself. Thank you. You are making progress. But i think progress in this area is not in a straight upward line. Only going in one direction at a constant rate. In my case I have found that whilst i know i am always heading in the right general direction, there are many twists and turns along the way, i often double back on myself and go down a path i have already been down but the second or even third time i notice new things along the way. I hope you understand what i'm trying to say. I just want to ensure that you don't feel despondent if all of a sudden, after you thought you had made so much progess, you feel you are back at square one wrt how you feel about OM. You may feel you are back at square one, but you will have moved on in a perhaps at first, indiscernible way.

AN, thank you so much for your last post. It makes so much sense and every word helped me too. You seem to be in such a good place and I am so glad for you. I feel sure i am heading to where you are but i don't feel i am quite there yet.

Just a quickie. Haven't reread yet. Meant to be packing.

I did consider emailing him to explain he had been my family, etc etc and that was why he had always been in my heart but I didn't. I wouldn't be upset if he didn't reply but I don't know if it will help me. I want to do it. Just don't know if I should.

Am sleeping and sleeping at the moment. Feel really quite down, a sort of limbo feeling.

I am wondering if mother is feeling depressed becuase I am not taking that feeling for her? Does that make sense? I am so accustomed to taking on her baggage for her. I feel so bad for not ringing, going to see her. But I dare not- becuase there is such a big risk that I will cave in, it is not safe.

I think this is a kind of battle for me and that is why I am feeling so tired.

OPO, Fab, I know what you mean, I cannot contact my mother, and my sis has not called, and that is all good..and yet.. and yet I long for them to call, like a craving. Itis so crazy because it is their phonecalls that have made me phobic of the telephone! Madness.

I am struggling with friendships. I find people are talking to me all the time, telling me their stuff and it is too much to process. I know that it is ok, people are just talking, but I am so used to thinking I have to agree with people, or if they have a problemI have to try to make it ok..I don't know what information to take on and what to discard and then I worry that I am talking too much myself, that I am boring and inane.

I just want to hide.

Oh the irony, the night before our wedding anniversary I dream about him and he is lovely to me. He was looking for me, the minute we saw each other we were together. He just took on my children immediately and he kissed and cuddled and were back where we should be.

Fab, am sure that dream is significant, apart from the obvious meaning behind it.

PM, i remember that feeling of wanting to sleep and sleep. At weekends i used to sleep in and had to literally drag myself out of bed at times. It was awful. I felt so guilty. DH used to get up with DC's both days at the weekend, and although he never said anything, i sensed he was deeply resentful of having to take up the slack for me in that way.

If it is practically possible, just listen to your body and if it tells you to sleep then sleep. It's all part of the process, of healing and recovering from your past. I found when i was able to sleep in at the weekends i had some really intensely emotional dreams and i know they were a very important part of my journey. During some of my dreams i felt some very painful emotions and i now think that my body wanted me to sleep so i could feel and process those emotions but with the protection of being asleep so that i was not feelings the emotions whilst awake and conscious as they would definately have been far far too painful to bear.

I am fighting so much not to email and tell him. I don't think it will get me any response other than maybe good anniversary wishes, and I promised myself yesterday was the end and this was a new year for us. I just don't want him thinking badly of me.

Thanks OPO yes I think I am processing stuff at the moment. Things seem very fuzzy and unresolved at the moment.

The urge to "cave in" somehow internally, and go back to believing my parents and brother are good people and do love me, and the whole thing is all because I'm actually a really stupid, hopeless case is really, really overwhelming at the moment. It's like a magnetic force - the ones that repel: I feel like I'm constantly fighting this repelling force in every single thing I try to do, however mundane or apparently simple. I don't think or believe deep down that I'm stupid or bad or hopeless; it's like Pinky said the other day - I don't think I'm bad but on some level I still feel I am, however much my conscious mind tries to tell me the truth, this level of brainwashing is so insidious and so pervasive that it's a constant struggle at the moment to get beyond it and just function.

I honestly think that at least part of the reason it's this bad at the moment is that I'm actually in such a good place in my life (if you'll excuse the americanism). DH and I have a wonderful, strong marriage, however humanly flawed we both are; we are both devoted to DS; there are issues still current in my life of course but there are a lot of things that do work now, and I have this huge bedrock of emotional safety now that I never ever had before. I think because of this emotional safety and because things are generally working out in many ways, the old pattern is fighting back stronger than ever, and older, deeper layers of pain and trauma are coming to the surface with ever more urgency. And it is really really messing with my head. I am so happy as a wife and mother, but I still have a deeply traumatised inner child, as it were, who needs about as much attention as DS at the moment and the clash between the different needs is quite critical. I'm wishing I could clone myself. Am looking into (very part time) nursery places for DS but it probably won't be for a while yet; I'm getting as much day time help from our babysitter as we can afford but it's still not enough; and I feel so sad that having fought so hard to have my son, I'm now prevented from caring for him and enjoying him as much as I would wish by the same old evil crap they put me through. OPO have been thinking of you and your struggle with putting your DS into nursery so you can have time to work on your stuff. It's looking like I need to do the same thing.

I actually sometimes feel schizophrenic - there's the "real" me who's a very happy, contented, loving mother - and then there's the one who just can't cope with the demands of my past and my present simultaneously, and goes into meltdown. When that happens it's like "I" disappear and my cold, unloving, hate-filled parents come to the surface in me. I have been having this feeling lately, of actually physically wanting to separate from myself - as if I were two different people, as if one "I" could get up and walk away from the other "me", the one that wants to walk away is the one who can't stand all the issues and the trauma and the neediness, the part really in denial about anything bad ever having happened; the other "me" is the one who's just a wreck from all that they did to me, and who has no concept of being able to function normally at all, so that part is also in denial but in denial about the good stuff and the fact I am now functional. It's like the two extreme ends of the spectrum with nothing to join them when I'm feeling it that intensely, except of course there is a level of conscious mind that is aware of what's going on and is almost observing it, trying to process it.

Without time and energy, I don't think I can process it and work on it and turn it around, like I have done in the past with other issues. I need some time just to absorb it all, fgs. Just to take in evrything that's happened/is happening. The longer I go on working and developing, the darker the stuff from the past appears. Really, so much darker now than I ever suspected back when I first went for counselling. I am at a point now where I am feeling the hatred my family - my whole family - had/have for me on some level. My brother pretty consciously hated me through our childhood - I think he wished me dead really, a lot of the time - and I think that hatred never went away even though we went through some periods of our adult life where we appreared to get on pretty well (as long as I was prepared to keep my mouth shut and go along with his version of events, be the person he wanted me to be rather than the person I am, like you said about your sisters OPO). I know that he is now totally blaming me for having cut off from my family, I can almost feel his rage at me from a distance; it will never ever occur to him to think "maybe Bop has valid reasons for cutting us out, maybe we have really hurt her and we are the ones to blame after all" - it's like thinking the Pope might convert to Islam. It will be all "how can Bop be so evil and selfish as to hurt our poor, defenceless, put upon, innocent, ageing parents who have done nothing but care for her, like this?" I know this without ever speaking to him; it's what he thought when I was estranged from them all for a few years once before, and he won't have evolved since then.

With my parents, it's more unconscious and covert - my mother especially professes to love me and to care and I don't know which is worse, frankly, my brother's (and father's, really) outright lack of even trying to make things better, or my mother's pretence that she wants to make me feel better, when actually it's all about her. Anyway, there is hatred there, from all of them. Not that they'll ever admit it, but I am becoming so aware of it. And it has to stop. I can't change them, but I can and I damn well will work on every damn internal residue of them that I have time and breath to take on.

Thanks so much to AN and OPO and Pinky for the stuff about housework and the mental fog and not knowing where things go and DHs being tidier and getting frustrated about the state of the home and so on. Great to hear it's not just me/us.

Congratulations skihorse and hello to DriversManual. Sorry no energy to respond to other themes at the mo, as you can see I am pretty consumed with what's going on for me. Still following though.

Bop, didn't want to read and not post. I think you are very right when you say that it is precisely because you are now in a good and strong emotional place, that deeper stuff is coming up from your past. Our bodies seem to know when we are in a position to deal with things and only allow things through when we are strong enough to cope.

I think you know already i understand how things are with your brother. He wants you only in your old/previous incarnation, not the real you just like my sisters. I can almost physically feel their dislike and discomfort and rejection of me whenever i am true to myself and my feelings, and speak from the heart with them. They do not like it or me one little bit. I think I am strong enough now to handle their rejection but i do still feel scared and anxious at times as well. My sisters also, although unspoken, blame for cutting off our parents "who have done so much for us....have handed everything to us on a plate.." in the words of middle sister. She may have got everything she needed from our parents, but i got nothing, i certainly was not handed everything on a plate. My plate was smashed up and thrown at me.

And you know already the agonies i have been through because i have had to leave DS at nursery, from when he was only 20 months old. Yes, it was only part time, but even a couple of hours a day to him must have seemed like a lifetime. I feel so angry at my parents for forcing me to have to do that. I will never forgive them as long as i live. I actually take comfort in feeling how strong my resolve is to never lay eyes on them again for the rest of my life.

I'm glad us talking about housework issues helped you. It does get better however. I have recently had a huge clearout of old toys, clothes and general rubbish that i have been wanting to tackle for ages, years, but simply could not think clearly enough to sort through. But this last week i seem to have whizzed through it almost effortlessly and with an energy i never thought i had. Alice Miller describes this sort of energy as vitality; the opposite of depression. And i have felt this energy since i finally faced the truth about my relationship with my sisters and let go of the hope they would ever treat me in the way i want them to treat me.

Thanks so much for replying OPO, it really means a lot. I love your analogy of the plate being smashed up and thrown at you, can really relate to that. Too tired to write more at the moment, DS is sick and have had a lot of extra work/even less sleep, but I really do appreciate your posting. Thanks again!

Thought I was finished with the emotional rollercoaster ride but no, it seems I am still on it. After feeling really good last week, at the weekend I felt so low, crying, lonely, depressed. Am sure, like you Bop, once I am in a good place, my body feels I am strong enough to take some more and sure enough a whole load of new memories popped into my head.

This time I was thinking about when my best friend from the age of 5, we were inseperable, moved away with her family when i was around 9/10. I don't remember feeling upset or sad that she was moving, when I must have been devasted. I remember it came completely out of the blue to me, obviously her parents must have known about it for a while, but I only found out fairly close to the time of the move.

I don't remember anything about it really. Don't remember either of my parents talking to me about it or reassuring me I would make new friends etc. That's how I would have dealt with it if my DD went through anything similar. I would be there to help her deal with her emotions at being 'abandoned' by her closest and best friend in the whole world.

I do remember making a new best friend fairly soon afterwards and we also became very close and were inseperable until we went our seperate ways at age 18. But for me, the years between 9 and 11 must have been awful. My best friend moved away and my dad went through his extreme psychosis phase and went from being my secure attachment figure to the person who seemed to hate me most within the family.

These days I find it easier to empathise with the little girl I would have been at age 10 and feel now what she must have gone through, alone. I am sure that is why I have no memories of that time, I must have repressed my emotions as they would have been too much for me to deal with alone, and I knew i had nobody who would help and support me through a very traumatic time in my 10 year old life. I remember feeling so alone again at the weekend, just completely and utterly alone in this world with not a single person i knew i could turn to for love and support and comfort. That is probably how i felt 30 years ago when my friend left me. And I also remember feeling at the weekend a really fierce and strong absolute need and longing for a mother, made all the stronger for knowing I didn't have a mother who would come when i needed her. I simply cannot imagine my DD experiencing what i went through. Having to go through life from a young age and dealing with all it's ups and downs alone, scared and confused and anxious. I say ups, but of course it was only the downs that i experienced alone, my mother would somehow always pop up out of nowhere and demand to share my 'ups', a habit that continued until i cut her off.

Another thing that has been bothering me is middle sister. Strictly speaking, she is the one who should be stewing, wondering why i have not contacted her, wondering if she had done something to upset me. But somehow, it seems to be the other way around. I am the one stewing, i know i have not done anything wrong, and yet i know somehow that she is annoyed with me, because i have not heard from her since i last texted her around 2 weeks ago, when normally she is in touch at least once a week. And yet it is she who is in the wrong. She is the one who has been using me, taking from me when it suited her but not giving anything in return, treating as not important to her, inferior and second best to younger sister. But i have resolved not to contact her at all, although i nearly broke my resolve a few days ago and thought about sending her a text. But luckily i stuck to my guns and have stood firm.

I have arranged to meet with younger sister for my neice's birthday (a meeting which she cancelled and we have now re-arranged) and also for DD's birthday as by the time we meet it will be close to DD's birthday. I haven't invited middle sister and have made it clear to youngest sister that she also should not invite middle sister. I keep thinking about it all and feeling a bit scared about what I am doing, but at the same time my gut feeling is telling me I am doing the right thing. Middle sister has treated me badly so many times, has left me out of things she is doing with youngest sister, that i am well within my rights to exclude her from my meeting with youngest sister. And youngest sister also cannot say anything to me as she is the one who told me that middle sister had the right to tell people about her pregnancy when she wanted ie effectively telling me i should put up and shut up with middle sister telling me her news weeks after she had already told youngest sister. Therefore i too can invite who i want to meet for lunch to celebrate DD's birthday and if i don't want to invite middle sister then that is my choice and my decision.

I know the scared feeling i have about all of this is from years ago, as a child i would have been far too scared to do something like this, even though i would have been well within my rights to do so, then as well as now. It is the first time i am doing something where i am thinking about myself and my needs instead of my sisters. I am so much happier and more comfortable meeting them seperately than when they are together. As they seem to derive strength from each other and always make me feel left out and alone, it's always the two of them against me on my own. Whereas when it's just one of them and me it feels much more like a level playing field and i don't feel so anxious and scared.

I have told youngest sister i will meet middle sister seperately for DD's birthday, but actually i don't feel any inclination whatsoever to meet middle sister at all. I feel like i don't like her one little bit and i don't want to see her at all. I don't particularly like youngest sister either, but i do like my niece and it is for that reason alone that i am willing to meet youngest sister.

Sorry for rambling on so much about myself, i needed to get things out to make things clearer in my head.

Bop, OPO your posts really resonate with me. I can feel the resentment in my sister's latest messages. She is strange becuase like you brother, I think she spent much of our childhood absolutely hating me, then deciding she liked me as a kind of 'pet' but she does not like this new me at all.

I veer between thinking I am doing quite well to thinking I have sabotaged my relationship with my old family for no good reason. As you saw, OPO, on the surface it was all there- high achieving family, welloff etc. But I too can relate to your plate analogy.

Bop I can really see why people try to just bury all this stuff and move on, it is so hard and draining. Therapist describes it as climbing out of a big jar of treacle.

No email from him and I know there won't be.

I think we both felt like we didn't fit in with our families and I think the strength of his feelings for me scared him. He said a few weeks back that we met too young.

I do wish we could have been friends but we never could back then, and while we both have emotional feelings for each other it isn't going to work.

I am very happy with Dh but there is part of me that sometimes thinks am I biding time until me and him can be together?

Talking and thinking about him makes it worse for me so I have to go cold turkey really but he is on my mind every day.

AN, you know the reasons why you haven't visisted your brother for a while. None of the people who have 'commented' are looking out for you are they? Only you know your reasons and only you care enough about yourself to look out for yourself and protect yourself from people who could hurt you, so please ignore all these 'outsiders' who feel they have a right to comment on your behaviour. They know nothing and should keep quiet. I know why you haven't visited your brother in a while and I fully support your wise decision.

I can understand you feeling pissed off. I feel the same many times when i sense that I am being judged by others for my behaviour, when those 'others' have no idea what I've been through and what hard work i have had to put into sorting myself out. I feel angry that others feel they have the right to judge me without knowing my story.

Ignore them is all we can do AN, and feel grateful and proud that we are not, and nor will we ever be, as ignorant and judgmental of other people as them.

AN, I think this is v important "I don't feel it is my responsibility any more." I think we all grew up to think we were responsible for looking out for other people's feelings and taking great care to not make other people feel cross/sad/hurt/angry and we continue that habit to this day.

It takes a huge mental shift to stop always thinking about other people's feelings to the detriment of our own and to start putting our own needs and feelings first. I have realised this has been the pattern with me and my sisters. I have been so careful all this time to put their feelings first and push my own true feelings aside if necessary to ensure my sisters don't feel hurt/upset/overwhelmed. But increasingly i have started realising that they NEVER seem to do the same for me. They never think about how i might feel as a result of their words/actions. Putting other people's feelings before your own is not unhealthy if the other person reciprocates. But if they do not, you are neglecting yourself and looking after the other person and this will always result in you feeling bad.

I have finally realised this and have started behaving differently with my sisters. I am for the first time ever, no longer putting their feelings first, instead I am putting my feelings first. It feel scary and very unfamiliar to do this, but at the same time it feels good and it feels right. Even though it does feel scary I am going to do it and follow it through, no matter how scared I feel. I have this feeling that it is so important that i do this and not cave in at the last minute because i feel scared of the consequences. (I am talking about meeting with younger sister and deliberately excluding middle sister like she has done to me so many times).

I am sure once I have followed it through, I will feel really good and neither sister will have a leg to stand on if they want to criticise me in any way. I suppose the only issue might arise if youngest sister cancels on me again in which case i think i will tell her I need a long break from her and our relationship.

I have had a strange experience recently with a 'friend'. I met her and we became friends over a year ago. I was vulnerable when i met her and i think i was just grateful to have somebody to talk to. I realise now that all along she had an ulterior motive in befriending me. She had concerns about her son not making friends at school, and I feel very strongly now that my 'friend' was really only making friends with me so DD would also become friends with her DS.

And that is exactly what has happened. DD and her DS have become very good friends. But, her DS seems to have become extremely attached and even possesive over DD and recently i started feeling very uncomfortable about their friendship. It seemed like it was becoming too intense and too exclusive since they are only 6 and 5.

So i started to put the brakes on the relationship and restricting the number of after school playdates DD had with my friend's DS. And this is when the 'friend' showed her true colours and her hidden agenda. She became extremely nasty and told me that if I did not continue to let DD have numerous playdates with her DS, DD would "resent me when she was older" and that i was "standing in the way of DD's friendships".

The same friend also called me rude when i didn't call her back after she had tried to call me a few times in one day (I couldn't as my phone had stopped working but i hadn't reall realised) and she also immediately thought there was something wrong and i was wanting to cancel a playdate we had arranged but i was avoiding telling her. (I wasn't, it was just that my phone wasn't working).

Anyway, i have thought a lot about this woman and her, to me, over-reactions to current events. And i know enough about her background to know she has issues from childhood like mine. Only i don't think she has got anywhere near to resolving her issues and i think she has become 'attached' to me and has unrealistic expections of what i can give her as a mere friend and also her DS has got attached to my DD because he is missing a secure attachment at home and is therefore looking for it elsewhere.

I now don't know what to do about this 'friend.' I feel i no longer can be friend with her as we were never really friends in the first place, she was happy whilst i went along with her plan for my DD to be a friend for her DS, but as soon as I objected to that, she became nasty.

It's difficult to avoid her as the children are in the same class at school. I have spoken to their teacher and even she had noticed that the DS had become quite "possessive" over my DD. It made me feel quite sick and shaky when the teacher used the word "possessive". I don't know if am over-reacting to what could be normal childhood behaviour or over-analysing it all. I feel that I have allowed this situation to develop and then suddenly put a stop to it so it's my fault as well.

But i think this friend's DS has issues with attachment, i don't think his mother is 'available' to him, in fact in the time i have got to know the family i sense that she is constantly trying to push her DS away from her. He is probably being very clingy with her as he is seeking that closeness and love that he needs, but she can't give it to him and is feeling suffocated is pushing him away which only makes him cling more. Perhaps he has now given up trying to get what he needs from his mother and is now trying to find it elsewhere; hence the strong attachment to my DD.

In a way this scenario is like my own childhood. I became very attached to my best friend from the age of 5, probably because I too was not getting my needs met at home. Perhaps i was lucky in that my friend's mother did not see it as a problem and was quite happy to have me almost become a member of their family. But I am not happy for this boy to monopolise DD in the way he seems to want to. DD is an outgoing child with a large circle of friends and i want this to continue.

Anway, i have managed to avoid any more playdates with this boy and it is only a week til the end of term. They will not see each other over the summer holidays and hopefully that will break his attachment to DD. I have noticed the attachment is only 'one way'. ie the boy always wants DD to play at his house, DD is never the one to suggest it, although she is not against the idea once it has been suggested by the boy. DD is perfectly happy to come home with me and play with her little brother and spend time with me.

But the whole experience has taught me that within every classroom there are probably many children who are not getting their needs met at home and that not only do i have to look out for myself but i have to look out for my DC's as well, in a way i hadn't really considered before.

AN I can only agree with what OPO has said. I don't think you should feel guilty.

opo I have a 'friend' similar, whoo I have managed to extracate myself from, but she dumps her child on my DS every morning innstead of settling him herself. The boy does not know how to chose an activity by himself- he seems to have no capacity to make decisions for himself. SHe is very coontrolling and a bit bonkers in her ideas. I can see it now even after this short time of therapy and I am glad I can, thuogh it is sad to see historyrepeating as it clearly is, this woman is very anxious and insecure.

Therapist talked to me about gaps today. That I am not doing anything wrong, I am just nolonger filling in the gaps in ym relationships with my old family- the gaps that should really have been filled by my parents. It has helped a lot.

baby crying back later.x

PM, my 'friend' is also very anxious and insecure. You've done well to see it after only a short time in therapy, i have only just realised this about my 'friend'.

I have realised that for all this time I have been far too trusting of other people, trusting that they will take care of my feelings and be considerate of me. I just assumed that this is how those closest to me would behave towards me and it has taken me all this time to realise that actually nearly everyone in my life until now has been totally selfish and thought only of themselves, never about me. And this includes of course my parents and sisters. However, I feel i was not wrong to have put my trust in these people, if they had been a 'normal' family, my trust would not have been betrayed like it was. It has taken me so long to see what they are all really like. I feel a bit foolish now as the sign were there, big and loud, from day one really, but I suppose it was always the longing and hope that kept me going, that made me keep putting myself up to be hurt time and time again.

I nearly caved in today and texted middle sister. I told myself it was only because i wanted to find out how she was getting on in her pregnancy and find out how her house hunting was going given the difficult economic conditions at the moment. But somehow i managed to stop myself and i think i may have rationalised some valid reasons to call her, but underlying it i am sure was the old familiar longing for something.

I can see now how easily i become hopeful of getting what i need from almost any female figure in my life who shows me a bit of kindness and attention. I must have been so deprived of this from so early on by my mother. Even though things went horribly wrong with my dad after i was 10, whatever i got from him before then must have been good enough to 'sustain' me as i have never felt 'needy' in the same way in relation to male friends/boyfriends in my life. It is the motherly nurturing, care, warmth, love and protection that i was completely deprived of and which i realise now i still looking for and hoping for. I can see that i hope i will get what i need from almost anybody, any female in my life, however close or not our relationship may be. My sisters were one big source of fruitless hope, certain friends, other distant relatives i am in contact with, in the past it has been older 'motherly' work colleagues. I have been on an endless quest to find a mother and of course i have not been able to find one. But at least i know now what motivates some of my behaviour wrt female friends in my life and why i feel anxious and disappointed often in relation to these people. My MIL was also one of the people I hoped would be a mother to me and of course i was sorely disappointed by her.

What is puzzling me right now is why i do not feel this way towards every female in my life. Eg. a friend i am still in touch with after almost 25 years, but i have never looked to her hoping for something from her. Perhaps i sensed instinctively that she was unable/unwilling to give me what i needed. Perhaps that's why we are still friends as she hasn't hurt/upset/disappointed me as i have had no expectations of her. I know what role she can play in my life and i expect or want nothing more than she is able to give. Perhaps that is because she is good at setting boundaries in relationships. I know her and her family well enough to see that although they have had their problems like most people, they are essentially a caring, loving family and her parents have given her what she needed as a child. Consequently she is a confident, kind, caring, genuinely nice person; she has lots of friends and seems to be genuinely happy and secure about herself.

Deep down i suppose i would have liked to have been like her, but given my history and abackground it is an impossibility. But she is an example of how things could have been for me had i not suffered all that i have. I would hope that my DC's grow up as secure, confident and inherently happy and content just like my friend is. She seems to sail through life, without a care in the world, and even though she has had difficulties and worries like we all do, she seems to handle them so well. I am sure she has no idea how lucky she is and she will never know. And she will pass on the good stuff to her children. I really hope my DC's grow up like her, without ever realising just how lucky they are.

OPO I think it was when I 'saw' my mother for who she is, I could also see this friend (dh had been telling me she was odd from the beginning) as she is quite similar.

Like you I would feel obliged to 'give myself' to anyone that showed interest in me. This lady would ring up and request my son to play with her child at a few minutes notice and I would come running, sometimes with my mother telling me I had to. I realise now that she simply could not stand to be left on her own with her children we were 'convenient'.

I can relate to what you say, both about your expectations of people and how you have been looking in vain for a mother. I used to dream of someone coming along and putting me in their pocket and taking me away, quite literally. I often used to imagine myself as being very very small, I suppose on one level I wanted to disappear.

PM, this is also the conclusion i have come to about my 'friend', in your words "I realise now that she simply could not stand to be left on her own with her children we were 'convenient'."

I feel sorry for this ex-friend's DS. It is sad to know how deeply he is going to be affected by his mother and her issues, unless she does something to sort herself out. The trouble is she thinks she is 'sorted'. And not only that, she actually thinks I am being unreasonable about the whole situation because of my issues (which i have talked to her about). It is actually quite funny when you think about it!