Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

I don't know what to say to my mum about this.

63 replies

OrmIrian · 11/05/2009 17:19

I have known for a few years that mum had twin boys that died at birth due to serious medical incompetence (makes my blood boil even now!) about 2yrs before I was born. And that she had a late miscarriage a few years before that.

She was treated appallingly by the various consultants that treated her - for example the twins were lost due to pre-eclampsia but when she started retaining water the consultant told her she was she was just too fat and made the ward sister put her on a restricted diet Sister tried to argue with him but the Doctor's rule was law. But also by her family who told her she had to get up and about and not mope as she had a husband and son who needed her to buck up and look after them. No sympathy at all. In fact she was made to feel like a failure.

I have just found out that she had another late mc when I was 18m old almost certainly due to the fact that she caught whooping cough from me. I don't know what to say to her. No matter how I rationalise it I can't help feeling that I was responsible for her losing this baby too

She had a terrible childhood and it just seems to me that her adult life was torn apart by these horrible things. I find it hard to talk to her as it always ends up in mum blaming my dad for everything and I don't know how to deal with that. He isn't perfect (and as a husband I think he probably left something to be desired) but he was a fantastic father. And they are in their late 70s now and I don't want to bring things up that have been buried. But there is so much sadness in her and it breaks me heart that so much in her life has been hard and cruel. And as a baby I contributed to that.

WWYD?

OP posts:
BlueCowWondersAgainAndAgain · 11/05/2009 17:34

Why do you want to go over it with her? Is it to make her feel better? I doubt it will. If you need to talk it over, surely an independen counsellor would be the safe route.

FabulousBakerGirl · 11/05/2009 17:34

It wasn't your fault, nor your mums or your dad's what happened.

Rather than try and talk to her, can you give her something so she knows you are there for her, understand as much as you can, and will listen should she want too?

Maybe a tree to plant in memory?

I am so sorry for you and your parents, such an awful thing to happen.

nickschick · 11/05/2009 17:38

I think your mum has had a very hard life in some respects - dragging it all up and blaming yourself will help no-one.

How close to your mum are you?

Could you buy her a rose bush or something to mark all she has done and then it will be a 'personal'celebration for you and her when it blooms as it marks your mums success?

What about a lovely notebook and ask your mum to recod thing from the past so you can tell your dc.

Sometimes the best things are free/cheap maybe posh cream cakes a bunch of flowers and a thanks mum!!.

Original poster
OrmIrian · 11/05/2009 17:44

I have a slightly brittle relatinship with mum. She isn't the easiest person to get close to. But I have started telling her that I love her in the last year or so -something I wouldn't have done when younger, we're not like that as a family.

We tend to brush things under the carpet a bit or make a joke out of it. I think that is how dad's family dealt with things and I get the impression that mum wants to talk to me about these things - sometimes she will start to talk and then someone else comes in and she changes the subject. It's for her sake that I wonder if she needs to talk - not mine. It's not my story.

OP posts:
SOLOisMeredithGrey · 11/05/2009 17:45

If you feel she has been a good mother to you, just tell her that. I think to bring up the losses your mum suffered, you would have to pick your moment and maybe you will find that moment, but I wouldn't plan it tbh, just play it by ear...Hope you can put it to rest and your mum too...

On the other hand, could you talk to your dad about any of it first? I find talking to my dad easier at times than talking to mum.

Good luck.x

SOLOisMeredithGrey · 11/05/2009 17:46

Sorry, I meant your mum putting it to rest

SOLOisMeredithGrey · 11/05/2009 17:48

Sorry, slow posting...

Could you take your mum out some time? just the two of you for some mother and daughter time? That may give her the opportunity to open up without fear of interruption.

Original poster
OrmIrian · 11/05/2009 17:49

LOL at putting mum to rest

Thanks solo. I might be able to talk to dad about it. But I think that playing it by ear might be best.

OP posts:
Pheebe · 11/05/2009 17:56

I'm afraid I would havee to say unless your mum brings these things up with you then they are really none of your business. I have had multiple mcs and 2 boys in between that, I will never discuss them with my dcs, its nothing to do with them.

Not sure why you do think its your business or why you would want to discuss all this with her. You were a baby when the whooping cough incident happened. Its not your fault or your pain. Whatever you feel about it, it will only be a fraction of your mothers pain and you really need to get a grip and get over yourself. It sounds a bit attention seeking and needy on your part I'm afraid.

Unless your mum is blaming you in some way or wants your help in dealing with her issues you really should stay out of it.

Sorry to be harsh and hope you can find a way to deal with your feeling without causing your mum any more pain.

Original poster
OrmIrian · 11/05/2009 18:25

pheebe - i hope that made you feel better

As I have repeatedly stated it isn't my pain. It's hers. But my impression is that she wants to talk about it.

But thanks for your opinion.

OP posts:
Original poster
OrmIrian · 11/05/2009 18:30

Actually pheebe you are completely out of order. That post was very offensive!

OP posts:
FabulousBakerGirl · 11/05/2009 18:36

Orm - take no notice.

FWIW I would love someone like you who was willing to talk about my baby losses with.

have you decided what you will do?

AnyFucker · 11/05/2009 18:39

pheebe, you overstated your case a bit there, love

orm, I do slightly echo pheebe though

your mum has enough of her own pain and bad memories, it wouldn't be helpful to heap your discomfort and upset on her too

prhaps she finds it comforting to see you getting on with your life

tbh, traumatic childbirth stories are much more common all those years ago and not discussed much at all, it can be a generational thing

however, if you sense she wants to talk (and you know her best of course), possibly you could engineer a few "mum and daughter" times and just see what happens

don't tell her of the guilt you feel, though 'cos it is definitely misplaced

life's a bitch, then you die. eh?

bluejeans · 11/05/2009 18:41

Ormirian what a sad story and Pheebe that was mean and unnecessary

It could be that your mum has wanted to be able to talk to you about this but felt unable to. I agree that spending some time just the two of you would be good, so that you won't be interrupted if you do start to talk - but play it by ear and if you don't manage to discuss anything it could still build a foundation for you to get closer if you see what I mean. Are you her only daughter? How did you find out about what happened?

AnyFucker · 11/05/2009 18:44

actually, FBG, you are very right there

I could bore you all for hours with my stories too

the trouble is, it seems very self-indulgent, doesn't it? (to me anyway)

Pheebe · 11/05/2009 19:07

Sorry didn't realise you wanted I love-fest. You asked for opinions, I gave mine. What you do with it is up to you. Your reaction only adds to my impression that you are a bit of a drama queen.

Original poster
OrmIrian · 11/05/2009 19:09

Yes I am her only daughter. And the only child who spends any time with her at all.
I just have this feeling that her life is coming to a close fairly soon and there is all this awful stuff that she has never been able to talk about. She has talked about it to me before now but only briefly - I don't think it's because she doesn't want to but because she feels constrained.

OP posts:
Iggi999 · 11/05/2009 19:21

Aren't some of you forgetting that OrmIrian ALSO lost someone, her siblings? Obviously, the mother's loss is much greater, but to imply that it's none of someone's business that their brothers or sisters died just seems mad to me. It also sounds like you might be experiencing a bit of "survivors guilt" OrmIrian - it wasn't your fault that you lived, and I'm sure no-one blames you - but perhaps you feel a bit bad about it yourself.

bluejeans · 11/05/2009 19:24

There's some stuff from the past I'd ike to be able to discuss with my mum but don't know how to. I think it's definitely a generation thing. Although sometimes with friends I find it easier to broach things by email. Could you write your mum a letter maybe?

catinthehat2 · 11/05/2009 19:34

Pheebe, it's all about tone. I think your tone and choice of words come across poorly. Opinions are one thing,and we are all entitled to them, but you appear to be strikingly judgemental, prescriptive and accusatory in your initial posts.

I would genuinely like to hear your opinion again, as you have some experiences I am guessing you wish to share. Can we have you, minus the harshness?

HRHQueenElizabethII · 11/05/2009 19:51

I think that people in previous generations felt not so much that they didn't want to talk about losing their children, more that they weren't supposed to - the SANDS forum opened up a "long ago bereaved" section, which had so many heartbreaking tales of being unable to talk about beloved children, to express the pain of grief and loss.

Orm, it's possible to register on the SANDS forum as the living sibling of a stillborn child, and you'll find a number of people there in a similar situation to yours. The long ago bereaved section may also help you. It's at www.sandsforum.org/, and you do have to register, but you may find it very helpful.

As for the whooping cough thing, well, you know rationally that it was not, could not have been your fault, but I wonder if it's a type of "survivor's guilt". I guess the only thing you can do is find a place where you can talk about your feelings, either with friends, or here, or SANDS, say, and then let your mum know that if she wants to talk, you're ready to listen.

Good luck.

springlamb · 11/05/2009 20:37

I can relate a lot to what you've said.
My parents' marriage was very much as you describe. My mum's third pregnancy resulted in the stillbirth of her only son around about 1956 (11 years before I was born). My sisters and I always knew that this had happened but it was shrouded in secrecy.
It was only when my own ds was born that my mum and I discussed in any depth what had happened. DS was extremely ill when born and as a result is disabled, and I think in some strange way mum felt that we had something in common, in that we had experienced severe trauma whilst giving birth.
Things were so different then. Mum was told that 'he'd have been a lot of work' and then put onto a post-natal ward surrounded by babies. It was practice then to stay in hospital for a week afterwards - she could not do this and walked out one afternoon to find that her baby was being buried that afternoon (dad had arranged it as he though she wouldn't be able to bear it). She was expected to just take a breath and get on with life and she did, but she carried that with her. She was so glad that things had changed when ds was born, that the medical science existed to keep him alive, that I was able to stay with him as he moved from hospital to hospital.
She died when ds was 15 months old. Over the following years I sometimes talked with dad about it (before he died last year), it was fascinating to hear his side of the story as a bereaved dad. It was also so very sad that they could not have shared it all together, they were so mistaken about each other's feelings on it.
I think that as people get older, they do appreciate the opportunity to talk about previously hushed-up things - but they must take the initiative. And I would put any notion of guilt out of your head and never discuss that aspect with her because you may make your much-loved mum feel that she has projected onto you.
I hope the opportunity presents itself to you, but I don't feel you should 'force' anything.

SOLOisMeredithGrey · 11/05/2009 20:38

It's also possible Orm, that your mum feels that you wont want to hear about it, so giving her the opportunity to talk about it may bring out many, many feelings, thoughts, wishes and even more tears. I think in your situation, I'd want to know what was in my mum(and dads)mind and heart.

My mum swears that my brother was a twin that she lost earlyish on in her pg with him. She has said what she wants to about it as far as I'm aware, but I don't really feel the need to know any more unless she wants to talk about it, but my mum and I can and do talk about many things with ease...I talk about even more with my dad surprisingly

springlamb · 11/05/2009 20:39

God, sorry that was so long. And now I feel a bit tearful about my wonderful trooper of a Ma.
I'm going to cuddle dd (who never met her) for a while!

SOLOisMeredithGrey · 11/05/2009 20:43

Springlamb, you've made me cry. What a sad, wonderful and inspirational story.