I don't know what to say to my mum about this.

[OrmIrian]

I have known for a few years that mum had twin boys that died at birth due to serious medical incompetence (makes my blood boil even now!) about 2yrs before I was born. And that she had a late miscarriage a few years before that.

She was treated appallingly by the various consultants that treated her - for example the twins were lost due to pre-eclampsia but when she started retaining water the consultant told her she was she was just too fat and made the ward sister put her on a restricted diet Sister tried to argue with him but the Doctor's rule was law. But also by her family who told her she had to get up and about and not mope as she had a husband and son who needed her to buck up and look after them. No sympathy at all. In fact she was made to feel like a failure.

I have just found out that she had another late mc when I was 18m old almost certainly due to the fact that she caught whooping cough from me. I don't know what to say to her. No matter how I rationalise it I can't help feeling that I was responsible for her losing this baby too

She had a terrible childhood and it just seems to me that her adult life was torn apart by these horrible things. I find it hard to talk to her as it always ends up in mum blaming my dad for everything and I don't know how to deal with that. He isn't perfect (and as a husband I think he probably left something to be desired) but he was a fantastic father. And they are in their late 70s now and I don't want to bring things up that have been buried. But there is so much sadness in her and it breaks me heart that so much in her life has been hard and cruel. And as a baby I contributed to that.

WWYD?

Thank you both.

Bringing this all up myself is making me think about so many things. I have always felt protective towards my mum, even as a child I was aware that she seemed fragile. That must have come from somewhere?

Often you can sense the fagility(or sadness?)of someone ~ even a stranger. When it is someone you love, care for and respect, those feelings can be magnified. My dad has terminal cancer(as you have probably read)and I sit even more than I did before and listen to his life and I'm so aware that one day very soon, I wont be able to able to listen to his voice anymore and that saddens me immensely...I'm actually going to sit and write a letter to him, talking about some of my memories of him in my life. He has been saying for about 6 months now that he really wants to cry, but the tears wont come. I think my letter might change that

I feel pretty sure that you will find a way to get things sorted, both for you and for your mum and listen to your mums heart.

Divine, I know you didn't mean to offend, but when I lost dd1 the phrase "everything happens for a reason" really hurt and upset me; I adore dd2, and no, she would most likely not have existed had dd1 survived - it's a paradox we discussed a lot on SANDS, but had to accept we could never resolve.

But dd1 dying so that dd2 could exist just feels wrong and cruel to me, I'm afraid. dd2 does feel extra special, as we worried so much through my pregnancy with her, and we count our blessings every day - I still miss her sister very very much and wish I would have both my girls with me.

Do you not feel able to say to her in a quiet moment - "I sometimes feel you would like to talk about your other pregnancies but I 'm not sure"?

I'm never sure why anyone would even consider "blaming" someone for catching an infectious illness. Isn't the person who gave you whooping cough to blame, or who gave it to them or...

My grandmother lost a child to whooping cough aged 2. I imagine you mother was glad you survived rather than thinking that you were a part of the problme.

I also don't beleive things happen for a reason - shit happens, sometimes even to the nicest people and people who least deserve it. Taking comfort from otehr things (eg bith of a subsequent child) doesn't mean what happened needed to happen in order for the good thing to follow from it... am I making any sense!?

Good gracious, I am sure when you lose a child that expression offers no comfort. But this lady (OPs Mum) lost her children years ago and everything happening for a reason is not for those of us (parents) who have lost children, but to comfort a person who feels that she may not have existed should her siblings had survived.
I wonder if when you discuss your loss with your dd how you would deal with her guilt that if your first dd had lived she would not exist? Perhaps you can help the OP?
I am sorry for your loss.

Kew, sometimes the unexplainable needs an explanation.

Have not have in other post...doh!

HRH I have been through all those same thoughts as well. I take comfort in the fact that I believe my 10 lost babies are only lost to me. Their soul or life force or energy, however you want to view it, still exists and one day they will get their chance too. I have no strong religious beliefs btw, this is from my heart. Again, this is not something I ever discuss really but it has hepled me through some very dark times

Goodness I seem to have revealed more about myself on this thread then I have in the last 5 years on mn. Orm hope you're getting what you need from this thread and apologies if I appear to be hijacking a little.

pheebes - no problem. I hope it's helping you more than it's causing you pain.

Well, I think I'll just explain the peculiar paradox it left me with - I want both my girls, but I know I can never have them. But then if we'd (say) started to TTC in a different month, or I'd got pregnant a month later, then dd2, as she is, would not exist either - it's just chance.

I find that much more comforting than any "reason", tbh; just sheer bad luck that dd1 died, and good luck that our beautiful dd2 is with us. She's only 2, but knows about her sister, has seen pictures and helps water her tree. For her I want it to be normal - before she was born she had a sister who didn't live to meet her, and we miss her and love her. dd2 does, I hope, know how very much she is loved.

Orm - this is so different to your situation and your mother's - one thing I have learned is that reactions to losing a child are incredibly different. I would, as I say, simply let your mother know that you are ready to listen if and when she wants to talk.

"Kew, sometimes the unexplainable needs an explanation" - I think is a personal thing not a truism. I don't need an explanation for why I am infertile, an explanation would not help me, it does not ease the pain of my infertility.

And in any event I'm not sure that many people would think "it was meant to be" (or similar)is really much of an explanation!

I do understand that some people find it comforting to beleive that everything happens for a reason, I'm just not one of them.

Not a truism, but the OP did get comfort from it.