Out of love with DH - is staying for the kids right?

[cynicalsis]

This is my first post on MN so I'd like to apologise in advance for any faux pas I might commit.

DH and I have been together for almost 20 years, married for nearly 17 of them. I haven't loved him for a long time - did I ever, I wonder now, or was I just grateful that someone wanted to marry me. In many ways he is a wonderful DH and father but spends little time with our two DS. He works all the time and is rather semi-detached from family life. I realise with some shock that I don't mind this as it means he's not around and that makes life so much better than when he's here. He works away from home part of the time. He's not violent or abusive in any way. In fact, he can be funny and charming. He can even cook and do the housework but only when asked .

Reading some of the other posts here I feel awful for being unhappy with my lot when in reality I have so much that others don't. My DS are wonderful, funny, smart, generous kids and love their dad to bits. I can't bring myself to destroy their family life just because I am unhappy. But I am very unhappy and tormented with indecision about what to do. (I begin to cry just writing this down.)

I have made up my mind to leave once the DS are not living at home full-time. I reckon that could be 8 to 10 more years. But I'm not sure if I can last that long. It's not that I want to be with anyone else. I just don't want to be with DH. In his heart, I suspect DH knows something of how I feel but I have avoided openly discussing my feelings because I don't want to hurt him either.I find myself wishing he would meet someone else and leave me. Then the break-up would happen but I wouldn't be the one initiating it.I'm such a coward.

I so want kids to have a stable family life. I don't want to disrupt school or have to move them. DH had a few problems in his childhood with family moving all the time and being sent away to school while I had a really stable family life and I know which of the two I'd prefer for my DS.

What I'd like to ask is whether anyone else has stayed in an unhappy marriage so that their children can have a stable family. If so, was it worth it? Do you regret it? We hear all the time about how bad family break up is for children. Is it true? I realise only I can make the decision about what I should do but I'd welcome knowing about other people's experience.

I am going to be screamed down for this, but in my opinion sometimes loneliness in a realtionship can be as corrosive as mental abuse. And you seem so lonely.

I've been where you are, more or less, from reading your post and things have got better for me. For me, I changed my mindset and stopped overthinking things which was really bringing me down. My children would have been about the ages yours are now. Three or four years on they are busy with their school and social lives and we can pop out to the pub for an hour (a pint for him and a soft drink for me) and just having a bit of time alone without the kids away from the house is really helpful.

Sorry that that was about me but I don't really feel I can advise you. You might find relationship counselling helpful.

I don't know if that helps at all. I've changed my name for this, btw.

What is it that's making you so unhappy to be living with this man? And how happy/unhappy do you think he is?
To be blunt, what is happening between the two of you sexually, and how do you both feel about that? Because sexual tension or a libido mismatch or the fact that one partner has never had any sexual desire for the other and has been enduring sex for years, are all incredibly corrosive to a relationship if not addressed.

What makes you think you will be MORE happy as a single mum with grown up kids who has left home?

I truly believe, from experience as a child, and now in a bad relationship, that your dc would not thank you for staying in a loveless marriage. People think kids dont notice but they do.

A friend told me a sad story of a lady that lived next to her. She was in her 60's and her "dh" had left her and she was so devastated, but not because she loved him, but because she had thought about leaving him in her 40's but decided to stay for the dc. Her dc (now in their 20's)said afterwards "We dont know why you didn't leave him before, you didn't love each other".

I just find that so sad that she wasted 20+ years of her life. It made me sure I wouldn't do the same.

Dont use that dc as a reason to do anything. Your happiness is paramount to you and them

Thank you so much for your replies. I feel better just being able to put down what I actually feel.

On many levels DH and I get on well but we have a bit of history in the unhappiness stakes. When DS#1 was a toddler we moved to another part of the country because of his job. But I was miserably unhappy in our new location. Things did improve but I found it hard (too long a story). Not long after moving I became pregnant with DS#2 and was very ill with constant sickness. I returned to where we used to live to be close to family and friends while I was pregnant and ill to get help with DS#1 which I know was hard for him. Shortly (a week) before DS#2 was born he told me he wanted a divorce which I think was a way of punishing me for not being in the new place with him all the time. I did return after I'd had DS#2 and all talk of divorce was forgotten. I was upset by it all at the time but looking back maybe it would have been the best thing. I am his second DF which may or may not be relevant. He did the leaving the first time round. I would enjoy his friendship but I don't enjoy being married. I avoid sex whenever I can which I know upsets him but I just feel it would be so much worse just to endure it.

I am a very independent person which I suspect is part of my problem. I enjoy my own company and have always worked to be financially independent. I lived happily on my own for many years before meeting DH. I have no qualms about living on my own. I am a de facto single parent most of the time as DH is away working during the week and only does stuff for or with DCs when I am not here or when asked. I usually take DCs on holiday by myself as he doesn't enjoy holidays away.

I'm making him out to be horrible when he's not but I do fear I am going to end up regretting it if I stay but I'm so loathe to go as long as I can keep things on an even keel.

OK, to be blunt, this relationship is doomed. What you need to do now is to make the split as amicable as possible.
I'm afraid this is another dreadful object lesson in why women should never marry men because the man is good and kind and the woman is desperate not to be single: it will always end up like this, because the man will want sex and the woman, if she has never felt any lust for this particular man, will get more and more disgusted with his desires. Actually the same applies should the genders be reversed.

CS: you might find it helpful to see a counsellor about the best way of making the split amicalbe: your husband probably will be very hurt and upset and angry, and while you should not put up with violence or abuse from him, he's entitled to be angry and hurt. THough of course there is the possibility that he will be relieved at having it out in the open that the two of you are not compatible, and if this happens, you will stand a very good chance of building a good friendly co-parent relationship.

I have no experience of this, but I'm so happy my Mum and Dad are still together despite my Mum "hating" my Dad and thinking sex is awful. They have separate front rooms to watch tv in, always holiday apart, but to be honest they are rather fond of one another and just do their own thing - watch tv in separate rooms! I don't think my Mum would be any happier alone, I think she enjoys moaning.
Can you try talking to him/counsellor? Although you may not feel "in love" are you fond of him?

I am sure you will get posts from adult children whose parents separated and they were happy about it and others were destraught, as well as ones where the parents stayed together and the children were happy or sad about it.

You have to decide what is best for you, your children and your DH.

Hi there.

"We hear all the time about how bad family break up is for children. Is it true?"

Not at all! I wont go into detail, but I know for sure my kids are absolutely fine with my separation and divorce from their dad. I think it can be terrible for the kids if their parents don't go about separating in the right way though - and that I think is the main problem, too many don't.

I know I will get flamed but actually, my mum thought me and my sister would be perfectly ok when she and my dad divorced.And of course, we allowed her to believe that because basically, if we had told the truth, nothing would have changed. But we were not ok with it. It hurt like hell. And even though mum remarried, a wonderful man who was as much a father to us as our biological father was, it doesn't change how we felt when mum and dad split up. Even now, nearly 40 years later, there are things about the whole thing that still hurt.

I also have a lot of contact with children going through this now as part of my job. As far as their parents are concerned, everything is fine, but for many kids, the opposite is true. I am not saying it will be like thisfor your kids, but please don't assume that happy (divoced ) mum automatically means happy children.

However it goes for you, I wish you and your family the best.

Ah yes, 'leave him' is always the answer isn't it! Never talk, communicate, discuss what options you have as a couple, find out what the other half thinks...

Lots of people lead quite separate lives without disrupting a perfectly stable family.

DH and I lead quite separate lives in the same household without disrupting the stable family life. Have had separate bedrooms for years now and the last time I had sex was when DS (12) was concieved. We rarely fight or argue but we just live as housemates with shared financial/welfare responsibility for the children. I am happy enough and have no desire whatsoever to have another relationship. Most men I met when younger were wasters, bullies, drunks, manipulative, etc.

There is lots more to the story but I am not going to post anymore personal stuff.

So in answer to the OP, it is possible to stay for the sake of the children but in my case, I have completely withdrawn emotionally from DH. I do not need him emotionally, financially or for company.

Same here cynicalsis.

We don't have a unhappy marriage though, we have an OK marriage but not a really happy one. I focus on the good things about him. Sometimes it's hard though - this weekend being one of those times

I do wonder what it would be like to be married to someone I was in love with rather than simply a coparent and economic partner
Similar timescales to you btw.

As a free spirit, the OP seems quite happy to have DH around from time to time, interspersed with fortunate absences. She just needs to be honest about not wanting sex with him (but there's no reason why not still some emotion) - they might each want to find fulfillment elsewhere, in a book, in bed or wherever. But you have to be honest about these things, a glance at this section shows we are all unhappy when lied to.

Cynicalsis, my first post on mumsnet a few months ago was incredibly similar to yours - some of the replies on that thread may help you too.

here

I've moved on since then - guess I decided I was miserable enough, and he was treating me badly enough that things had to change. I have no feelings for my 'DH' (need to drop the D now!) other than despair. He accepts that our marriage is over but says he is going to resist any attempts I make to end it, even though he said just this week that I can move out whenever I like. He doesn't realise that I CAN afford to do this, and in six months time I will probably be living elsewhere with the children. My H is very upset and angry at me, he thought he had himself set up for the rest of his life and now he's contemplating a lonely old age. I sympathise, but I am 41 (today!) and I won't be with him on my next birthday. I refuse to sacrifice myself to meet his needs and demands, and although I dread putting the children through it, I will go mad if I stay. Our present situation is having an impact on my mental and physical health, and when I pointed this out to my H he told me I should see a doctor.

You will make the decision that is right for you, but maybe you're not yet ready to make it, as I wasn't at the start of this year.

I am quite shocked by the posters who think you should stay with your husband even though you are patently miserable. Why do children want their parents to stay together even if they are making one another very unhappy? I can understand young children feeling like that but surely as adults we should develop a degree of empathy for another adult which goes beyond the parent/child dynamic?

OP hope you find a way through this

I don't think the OP should stay in a relationship that makes her miserable. But honesty may bring relief, change and improvement. Perhaps in a more truthful atmosphere, where OP wasn't expected to do things she didn't want to do, and free to do things she did want to do, she might just not be miserable. Her children are quite young and it seems that things have not be discussed so much that leaving is the only option.

Lilac21 - first of all, Happy Birthday!, and secondly thanks for the pointer to the previous thread. I found so many useful posts and have taken lots out of it.

Thank you to everyone who has offered advice, views and experience. I think I would be content to stay as a family unit if DH and I could live separately in the way that Pacific describes but ATM I can't imagine being able to get to that stage amicably. However, perhaps that is something to strive for although it might not be something DH would be prepared to settle for.

I am heartened by everything I've read and feel so much more hopeful that I can reach an outcome that is the best for everyone in the circumstances.

LovelySpringDayOutside found changing her mindset helpful. That is something I have already tried but perhaps could have another shot at. If I make no progress, I think counselling (even just for me) would be a good next step.

I won't rush into anything and maybe the moment will arrive when either I know for sure it is time to go or I can see a way to stay and be happy about it.

I know there is no definitive right answer and I will have to make the best decision I can. If it could be a joint decision between me and DH that would be so much the better.

Thanks again to everyone.

peachyfox - I am with you on this. Talking and honesty is a good start. I have held back from posting on this thread and have read it all several times again to make sure I understand the situation and my initial view has not changed.

cynicalsis - what you have written is probably very close to where my Mum was 30 years ago. My Mum and Dad got married under family pressure when my Mum got pregnant. She had a terrible childhood and I think grabbed at the chance of any kind of relationship. They separated shortly after I was born but got back together again. They went on to have my two sisters. My Dad was not a bad man but wrapped up in his work. Not violent or anything like that, willing to help out when asked, but not really doing much with us kids. I never saw my parents ever kiss or hug when I was a child.

However, once me and my sisters left home things began to change. They started doing things together and slowly they rebuilt a relationship which is as caring (and I honestly think loving) as I have ever seen them.

Surely an open discussion with your DH may be worth a try? You say you do not want to hurt him. That makes me think you still do care what happens and you say your kids love him and he has many good qualities you recognise. Of course I recognise things may well be irreparable but maybe there is something that can be salvaged at least for the kids? At least you could perhaps work out a way of living togther comfortably while the children are around so you can be happier. Surely being honest about how you feel about sex is only fair to him as well and then at least that pressure can be removed from your life?

He may also be desperate to talk to you so he can make things better for himself as well. At least both of you may be able to agree a way that you can both move forward.

x - posted with your last post

Hmm... I read this and I think to myself, why does anyone get married?

Is there any possibility of counseling? I have read most of the thread and I find myself agreeing with both sides. On the one hand, it can't be good for children to witness a negative relationship between their parents. But OTOH, both of my brothers are divorced and their children have suffered for it. In one instance the boys were 12 and 9. The older one had really serious emotional problems when he was 20/21 and the divorce kept coming up in his therapy as a constant theme. In the other case the kids were 22 and 20. The younger one, my niece, has had major issues with relationships since. She is now 31 and I hope is finally finding the right person but it has been a rocky road and she has developed some distressful traits since the breakup of her parents such as pathological lying .

Do what you need to do but please consider alternatives first.

I also agree with both sides. I didn't read this and think 'she should leave him' which often I do.

I think that the issue of the 'spark' and being 'in love' in any relationship is not as clear cut as people like to present. I have been with my DH for 11 years (married for 7 1/2) and to be honest the spark comes and goes.

If we spend time together, have a laugh, confide in each other, enjoy ourselves it is there - resolutely. If on the other hand we are wrapped up in work/ourselves and we spend less time together it quickly wanes. Overall, I would say that our marriage is very happy BUT it's not perfect all the time.

I don't think the OP's marriage is necessarily doomed, but it needs some fairly urgent repairs. I think too many people become glorified flat mates with their partner and when this happens whatever potential there might be the relationship will always be doomed. My advice is start having some fun together, then make your decision.