Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Three months without seeing my mother - what to do next (long!)?

76 replies

mogwai · 22/03/2009 20:49

Long story - I've posted about it periodically so apologies if I'm repeating myself. This is a really long post so look away now if you need to!!

My mum was a single parent who brought me up alone until I was 13. My nan helped out a lot as she lived close by, but my mum was constantly falling out with her if she stood up for herself or wouldn't agree to what my mum wanted her to do. My nan was widowed and her husband had been very controlling so after he died she didn't want to be told what to do by her own daughter.

In the end, my mum found somebody else who would look after me while she went to work so she broke contact with my nan (her mum) and forbade me ever to go and see her again, which broke my heart. I was once forced to ignore her when we saw her shopping in the town centre and when I became a teenager and secretly went to see her, she found out and didn't speak to me for days.

She had various relationships with men throughout my childhood. She was engaged several times but it never lasted and would always end in a big bust-up over her possessive and jealous nature in which she tried to control the man by not allowing him the freedom to see his friends (she seemed very insecure on the one hand and yet was incredibly vain).

When I was 13, she got married and had another child. My stepdad was okay but he had a job that took him away from home most of the week and she was constantly suspicious that there were other women. Their marriage was unhappy and she treated him like crap, so in the end he did have an affair, which she said confirmed what she suspected he would do.

After they got married and had their own child, my mother became totally disinterested in me. Soon this turned into hurtful comments and actions (such as telling me I was fat, laughing at me, belittling me) and this progressed to isolating me from anything they did as a family (going on family outings without telling me, buying three of everything during the weekly shop and parading what they had bought in front of me - for example, buying three cream cakes and mocking me as they ate theirs knowing there wasn't one for me).

By the time I was in my mid teens I'd got a saturday job because my mum refused to give me money for even basic things like school shoes. I remember her once promising to buy me a warm coat and then refusing at the last minute (out of spite and wanting to be in control), leaving me struggling with a thin cotton coat all winter. Christmas was always awful - my stepdad had a son from a previous marriage and he wasn't allowed into the house to eat dinner with us so my stepdad used to take a plate out to the freezing cold garage and the boy had to eat his dinner there. Plainly, my stepdad didn't have the balls to stand up to her.

As I got older, it got worse. She began saying awful things like how she should have had an abortion rather than have kept me. I had no other family I could turn to (my nan had died by this point) and when I seemed upset by what she was saying, she'd mock me and tell me to go and live with my real dad, knowing full well I didn't know my real dad (because she had prevented me from knowing him).

I did well at school, which was my saving grace. The teachers sort of understood what was going on at home (though I never told them outright as I wanted to seem "sorted" like everyone else) and used to let me stay behind to finish work as I couldn't get any space to do so at home (she would send my toddler sibling into my room to play when I was studying then tell her I mustn't love her because I didn't want to play with her).

In the end I met a nice lad and realised from his family set-up that mine was totally screwed up. I also had a part-time job that I fitted around my A-Levels. The fact that I had a boyfriend gave me a bit of confidence to stand up for myself at home, which she didn't like, and this made her behave worse than ever, pouring away a bottle of perfume my friends had clubbed together to buy for my eighteenth birthday (though denying she'd done it), refusing to allow my boyfriend into the house (except the kitchen).

I tried many times to "make it better", even though I had no idea what I'd done wrong. Efforts included buying her things (such as saving up to buy her a dress I knew she wanted, only to watch her parade it in front of my stepdad then hang it in her wardrobe without even a thanks) and trying to talk to her (even saying "I don't know what I've done but I'm sorry" - which led her to literally shrug me off, walk away and turn out the lights).

By the time I was applying to university things were at a peak. She refused to help with the cost of train fares to travel to interviews so the school stepped in and gave me money from their "family hardship fund" which I found really embarassing. I was offered a well paid summer job but she refused to help me with the cost of travel for the first week so I had to let the job go. I was offered another summer job in Paris but she "forgot" to pass the message on until it was too late and the job had gone.

Eventually she packed my belongings into black bin liners while I was at work and told me to leave (again mockingly saying I should go to live with my dad). I literally had nowhere to go so my boyfriend's parents allowed me to pitch a tent in the garden of their tiny house and I lived in that for three months. She had stipped my bedroom and changed the locks within 24 hours of turfing me out.

I got good A-Levels and went to univeristy but struggled with anxiety and depression and found it hard to feel motivated academically. Looking back I realise I'd been "set free" from years of emotional abuse and was suffering some sort of post-trauma stress. Eventually I got counselling which helped a lot but didn't help with my academic motivation so I eventually took a year out and got a job before changed courses and finding something I really wanted to do.

During my univerisity years I tried to maintain a relationship with my mum because I had my younger sibling, of whom I was very fond. My mum wrote to me and said I could go home for the first christmas holidays providing I stuck to a set of rules (which she listed). Having no choice I went home but it was a diaster and I cried for the whole month. She also wanted payment for "keep", which I couldn't provide, so instead she took the duvet cover and pillowcase I'd bought with my student grant and kept them for my little sister's bed, leaving me with just a duvet to go back to university in the new term. I never spent another night at home after that first year (which is 18 years ago).

Since then our relationship has been very up and down, but I maintained it for the sake of my little sister.

The year I graduated she and my stepdad got a divorce, which left her financially devastated for a long time afterwards. She began phoning me during the exam period telling me about her financial problems and trying to convince me to take on her debts (for example, a hire-purchase sofa she'd got for £2,500 to "prove a point" to my stepdad). I refused to take on her debts as I had no job lined up after university but encouraged her to re-train so she'd be able to support herself financially, which she did. Incidentally, I was still with the same boyfriend I'd met all those years ago and he was now graduated and earning good money, which I suspect she saw as an opportunity a that time.

Years go by. At 32 I got married to the same boy I'd met when I was 17. When I showed her my engagement ring she didn't offer any congratulations but changed the subject to bitching about her ex-husband. In the run-up to the wedding she advised me not to have my little sister as bridesmaid because she would "show me up" (the real reason was that my sister was trying to form a relationship with her dad and my mum didn't like it and wanted to punish her). She couldn't get her way about the seating arrangements for the wedding (had a brand new boyfriend and wanted him on the top table) so she told lies about me to my uncle, which he (sadly) believed and has never spoken to me since.

In 2005 I had my own daughter. I wrote to my mum when I was first pregnant (before she knew) telling her how she'd made me feel. She wrote back telling me it had all been my stepdad's fault and he'd made her do and say all those things (which I simply don't accept). I replied saying I didn't accept this, so eventually she said she didn't know why she'd acted like this but wanted to have a "mother daughter" relationship with me, which I decided to try, as wanted to put the past behind us now I was going to have my own children.

My daughter is now almost four and I'm expecting a second in June. My little sister is not so little now (she's 22) but still lives with my mum, who has turned her against her father (literally cut him out of photographs with scissors). They are very close; more like sisters, as my mum has never really set boundaries for her and has clung onto her for dear life since she has no other friends or family any more (constantly falls out with her only brother). My sister's not a bright girl at all - calls herself "Vicky Pollard" and is scarily accurate, but she's my sister and I love her.

SO back to the present - My mum adores my daughter - only grandchild, very cute etc etc. It's a bit suffocating at times because her walls and surfaces are covered with framed photos and whenever she sees her she begs her for kisses and cuddles that I suspect my daugher doesn't really want to give (and my mother gets from nobody else).

She has often looked after my daughter (though never overnight) but I realised recently this has always been on her own terms because when I truly needed her help (because I wanted to go to parents' evening and there was nobody else to ask), she began umming and ah-ing and said she "might" do it, whicb brought into sharp focus her need to be in control and to "withold" help to make herself feel like she has the upper hand (I eventually missed the parents evening rather than be treated like that).

My mother drains my energy. She never has a good word to say about anyone. She has (literally) no friends. She falls out with her colleagues. She would cause trouble in an empty house. She's bored all weekend as has no hobbies or interests (hence offers to "give me a break" from my daughter as has nothing else to do). I have recently become concerned about what she says about me behind my back to my daughter (who is developing a good memory).

At Christmas she didn't buy me a present, which was perfectly fine because, although I knew what I wanted, I hadn't decided on the exact item (it was just something small anyway). She asked whether she could buy it at the end of january instead, which I didn't mind until she explained she wanted to save her money to get a replacement kitchen door mid-january (hence my present owuld have to wait). My sister was given an i-pod and some Ugg boots while I was being told the kitchen door had to come first. It struck me like a slap round the face that she treats us so differently and though she claims to want a "mother daughter" relationship, she appears to actually want her cute grandaughter.

Because of this incident and because of some snotty text messages she sent me in January, I decided to stay away for a while to clear my head, which seemed preferable to a confrontation.

In mid february, my sister sent me an email saying my mum was "upset" I hadn't been in touch and that I "ought to be nicer to her because you only have one mum". This really enraged me - my mother had clearly put her up to contacting me and my sister has no idea about what I suffered as a teenager because she's had a very different relationship with our mother. I told my sister she'd be better off to keep out of things she doesn't understand, which provoked a message from my mother saying (amongst other things) that I am "obviously ashamed of both of them" and that she "realises I now move in different financial circles" but she's "still my mother" despite this. And she said she would be "devasted if she couldn't see her grandchildren anymore".

She is so wide of the mark and out of order, it's hard to know how to react. I replied saying she was stressing me out, which was not good for my pregnancy. My sister replied to this saying "I know I'm in the right". I didn't read the rest of her message because it upset me so much - I just deleted it.

It's ironic that this is the sibling I tried hard to stay in contact with despite it meaning I had to have contact with my mum. She can never know how things were for me, though I have tried to explain why I don't always get on with my mum.

SO it's been five weeks since those messages and three months since I saw either of them. My daughter has never mentioned them, which makes me feel I have an opportunity to cut them off without it affecting her. I did send my mum a mother's day card in the post (ah the guilt! no present! no visit!) but I honestly feel healthier and happier without having to deal with her or listen to her griping about other people or constant streams of questioning about our life and the lives of our friends.

At the very least, I would never, ever allow her unsupervised access to my children again but my husband feels my children may feel I've let them down by denying them a relationship with their nana so I'm not sure what to do for the best. I have no inclination to contact them at all and have felt no love for my mum since I was a teenager.

I would SO appreciate thoughts on this (long) story in terms of (a) how would you characterise my mother and her behaviour? and (b) what would you do now?

I have read "Toxic Parents", BTW and I think it helped me a lot to make sense of my abusive time at home but still it's hard to cut a parent out of your life and nobody ever understands the situation apart from very old (or very close) friends. There's an assumption that if you don't get on with "your own mother" then there must be something wrong with YOU and I never know how to respond when people ask.

TIA

OP posts:
Yurtgirl · 22/03/2009 20:55

Wow mogwai that is definitely the longest origonal (ie not a cut and pasted document or something) post I have ever seen on MN

Im fairly sure I remember your story from ages ago, tbh I think I would probably distance myself from her if I were you.

I wouldnt feel guilty about it either to be honest she is the difficult one not you

CarGirl · 22/03/2009 20:56

You've broken contact, you are happier, congratulate your self on breaking free from such a cruel and miserable woman.

Get on with your life, your dc do have one set of grandparents they'll be fine with just them.

TweetleBeetle · 22/03/2009 20:59

Do you feel happier now?

Yes it is a shame that you don't have the traditional mother / daughter relationship, but i appears that she is incapable of such a relationship. My advice, concentrate on your immediate family and learn from your mum on how not ot be a mum!

thirtysomething · 22/03/2009 21:03

I don't know how a toxic parent is defined but I imagine your mum would be likely to fit the bill?

I am full of admiration for you to be honest. I think you have shown amazing determination and courage to do all that you have done with your life.

I can't suggest a way of dealing with your mum as deep down only you know whether it's worth continuing the relationship. However maybe you could start by asking yourself if you are hoping she'll change? If so is that likely? Or if not can you accept that she's the way she is? If you can't then maybe you have your answer? Also worth thinking very carefully about whether possible impact on your DD is worse than DD not having a relationship with her? Again only you know the answer.

Good luck - you are very brave and very strong!

onebatmother · 22/03/2009 21:10

I think that the sad truth is that eventually - particularly when less 'cute' - your dd will also become your mother's pawn. Even her favourite, your step-sister, can quickly become her victim when things don;t go her way. It's really important that you protect your dd from her spite.

Many people don't have grandmothers - my own mother is dead, for example. It's sad, but not a disaster. If your dd asks in the future, you could arrange for them to see each other in your presence. But she might never ask again.

Can I say Mogwai, that I'm astonished and terribly impressed at your endurance and patience, and your capacity to overcome this hideous experience? Your dd is very lucky.

littlelamb · 22/03/2009 21:12

Blimey I'm so sorry for all this. Your mum could be my mum, right down to the not buying school shoes. As soon as I was 13 that was it, I was bought nothing, no clothes, not even uniform. The funny thing though is that my stepdad is wonderful- if anything I feel sorry for him having to live with her I know that the turning point for me, in that I suddenly realised how my mum was, was my pregnancy with dd. I was at university when I found out I was pregnant, and 300 miles away from family. Mum had made it quite clear what a hassle it was for them to drive me there and tbh the day before we left I told her I would just get the train but we did go in the car eventually. WHen I told her I was pregnant it was terrible, and I spent the whole pregnancy in despair to be honest. I had noone. As soon as dd came along she changed her tune and came straight down to see her. It was only when I was pregnant with my ds (and I didn't tell them until I was 30 weeks, I was so worried about their reaction) that my dad apologised for how they had been when I was pregnant before and that I had done a briliant job with dd. Not a word from my mum still. They have a big new house but not once have they invited us up to stay- I invited myself for Christmas but it was clear what an inconvenice she thought it was.
I would say that it is no loss. I too feel that it is somehow my fault, that I 'owe' my mum something but actually looking back I can not remember any kind of affection from her, ever. Now I have dc of my own that makes me even sadder. Whatever issues she has are hers, not mine. I am lucky!! in that I live so far away from her, so I don't have to see her. If ever I call her there is pretty much silence on the end of the phone so I have given up. It's not just me either. My two older brothers don't speak to her either, one lives near me and the other is in Australia.
In response to your last point, there is nothing 'wrong' with you. I have tried very hard to understand my mum. The things she wrote to me when I was pregnant with dd are just awful. I kept the letters but I can't read them, and I really should destroy them before anyone else (especially dd) reads them. She called me 'wicked' amoung other things All I can think is that my dad left her when she was pregnant with me, with two older brothers to look after as well. I know from what my grandma has told me that she struggled with depression after he left. I can completely understand that as I am now struggling with PND myself, but I would hope that I never 'blame' that on my dc. It does make me think that her feelings for me were set before I was even born so have nothing to do with me really. I am just sad for her. She will end up a very lonely old woman. By the sounds of it, I would cut off contact with your mum. I know that you will probably feel guilty for doing so but actually you do not need someone like that n your life. I know that as soon as I moved away I finally felt I didn't have to apologise for who I was anymore. I am sorry you are going through this.

JackBauer · 22/03/2009 21:13

I could post a massive reply here but essentially I did the same to my father , but before I had DD's. He wasn't invited to my wedding which made all of DH's family do faces. I have never contacted him or anything following the births of my dd's. 2 of my sisters are still inr egular contact with him but we agree not to discuss him for the sake of our own relationships.
It is the best decision I ever made I ahve no guilt about it. People do pull the 'You only have one father' thing a lot when they find out but I just tell them that I have made my decision and that is that. I don't try and explain as people wiht 'normal' parents don't really get it!
My DD@s have grandparents on DH's side and my mum. If they ever ask I will just say that he is not a nice man and leave it at that.

mogwai · 22/03/2009 21:22

gosh that really WAS a long post! sorry!

I feel torn between what's good for ME and what's good for everyone else.

I can see the point about it being worse for my children to have a relationship with her than no relationship. I know the truth in it, but will they ever understand my reasons?

Deep down, I'd like to know she's okay, I think. I mean, I'd hate to think she was financially destitute but on the other hand she's never extended any help to me (hence am torn). She does have my sister to look after her but my sister doesn't have many personal resources (in any sense) and lives from hand to mouth in the same way my mother does.

I used to think I wanted to stay in touch because she would otherwise tear me to pieces telling lies to our relatives. She made them all cut me off by doing that around the time we got married so I've nothing more to lose there.

My unlce (who I was incredibly close to because he was only 6 years older) still doesn't speak to me over those lies. She claims she confessed to him but I don't believe her for a minute. He has never acknowledged my daughter was born and yet she is still prepared to speak to him despite how he treats me. How screwed up is THAT??!!

OP posts:
mogwai · 22/03/2009 21:27

your replies have made me cry, BTW

Never get that level of understanding in real life because most people have never been through it.

Patience? Me? My DH would laugh if he read that - thinks I'm one of the most imaptient people he's ever met (though I tease and say I'm still with HIM!!)

OP posts:
AnyMothersDayFucker · 22/03/2009 21:34

That is a long post but I read every word with tears running down my face.

There are some echoes with my own upbringing (sorry, am unable to go into detail).

You must do what you feel is right to protect you and your daughter. I agree with whoever said that your dd is probably next in line for the vile manipulation, once your mother realiss she has lost her grip on you.

I am so sorry. Use this opportunity to cut contact.

littlelamb · 22/03/2009 21:35

Ah mogwai don't cry Presumably your dc have other, nicer relatives? I honestly think you know what the right thing to do is. It is very hard to try and take control when you still feel somehow responsible for her actions. Don't feel guilty about it. You are the mother now and you must do what you think is best for your children.

Yurtgirl · 22/03/2009 21:38

Mogwai - I didnt mean long was a bad thing btw, I was impressed by your ability and....... 'patience' to type it all out in such a clear and honest way

I too think your dd is lucky to have such an enduring and thoughtful mum as you

queenrollo · 22/03/2009 21:40

i had no contact with one of my nans until i was 22 (when it was my choice to meet her) and i can say absolutely that her not having a presence in my life was a good thing. I've seen the damage she has done to my cousins and am so glad that she didn't have the chance to do that to me. Meeting her as an adult (and not having been told a great deal about her so i could make my own mind up) it didn't take me long to see her for what she was, and i kept contact to a minimum and on my level.
I'd say you will be doing the right thing by keeping your mum/sister at a distance and concentrating on you, your dp and your dc's....
I'm sure there are lots of MN'ers who can offer a closer perspective on this

JackBauer · 22/03/2009 21:43

I know what you mean about teh understanding,that is the main reason I stayed on MN as it was nice not to have people going at you!

Forget about what is good for everyone else, just deal wiht what is good for you and your DC's. For me the choice between having him in our lives as a mentally and physically abusive man, who was never going to change, and not having him poisoning my DD's was an easy choice. And therefore easy to assuage guilt IMO!

mogwai · 22/03/2009 21:52

That's it, isn't it?

You have your children and physically you have this instinct to protect them that just overwhelms you, it comes from nowhere, it's just an animal instinct.

I think the instinct to protect them emotionally sort of dawns on you as they become emotional beings, for example, the first time someone says they "don't want to be their friend" and you feel so upset for them.

Previously I feel I was muddling through with my mother and my daughter because I needed the extra help at weekends (DH often works weekends and I've always appreciated a few hours respite) but when she was younger it didn't matter because (a) my mother probably wouldn't try to manipulate her due to her age and (2) my daughter was too young to be manipulated.

The "snotty text messages" in January were actually very manipulative messages (which began in public on facebook and continued privately on my mobile phone where they couldn't be viewed by everyone else). I saw her tactic immediately and it screamed "manipulation!" and I suddenly realised how vunerable my daughter was to this same thing.

The instict is exactly the same animal instinct to protect, it just took longer to develop.

OP posts:
JackBauer · 22/03/2009 21:54

Exactly! If he ever tried to do some of the things he did to my daughters that he did to me I would, well, let's say it would not be pleasant.
I did make my decision before I was even thinking of becoming pregnant but wince having DD's it has cemented it somewhat.

mogwai · 22/03/2009 21:59

I did it the other way around - I considered whether I could have a relationship with her as soon as I knew I was pregnant (hence writing the letter without telling her I was).

Once I'd decided to give it a go, I told her I was pregnant.

Looking back I wish I never had. Looking back, I wish I'd never stayed in touch for the sake of my relationship with my littel sister.

After she had packed my bags (while I was living in that tent) I came out of a shop in town (actually it was Thorntons so I must and have been REALLY upset!) and she walked across the front of the shop entrance, saw me and gave me a filthy look without even stopping in her tracks.

It devastated me at the time, to have my own mum walk past me in town and look at me like that.

I replay it constantly in my mind like a flashback and I wish I'd used that oppportunity never to see her again.

Good for you Jack that you're not in my position of having tried and failed. I think that would have been much better. I made a big mistake.

OP posts:
AnyMothersDayFucker · 22/03/2009 22:02

not too late to put it right mogwai

mogwai · 22/03/2009 22:07

no, maybe in the nick of time

I do feel so guilty - that's the bit I'll have to cope with

OP posts:
AnyMothersDayFucker · 22/03/2009 22:09

don't feel guilty for wanting to salvage your relationship

it is her problem now

CarGirl · 22/03/2009 22:09

You feel guilty because you are a "normal" person who is incapable of being malicious unlike your mother, actually I don't think she deserves that title.

mogwai · 22/03/2009 22:11

...which is why I always struggle to find a mothers day card that suits.

They don't make one that says "you're a toxic shit but I'm duty-bound to send this" do they??

There was a thread on chat about that - made me laugh.

OP posts:
CarGirl · 22/03/2009 22:12

I buy one that says "Happy Mothers' Day" inside and nothing else, they do exist honest!

hunnybun1981 · 22/03/2009 22:14

first of what you suffered growing up was abuse she wasnt giving you thr basic things like warm clothes, and to make someone eat in a cold garage i mean come off it

why would you leave your child with her i wouldnt emotional abuse, your obviously come out the other end if i was me i wouldnt forgive her for what she has put you throught and clearly she is being nice to your daughter as she feels guilty for what she has done to you

move on be a great mum which i am sure you are after going through that ,

good luck

mogwai · 22/03/2009 22:16

yeah I know - I got one this year after hovering around the cards in John Lewis with an openly disgusted look on my face.

I always maintain that if I could have ANYTHING in the world I'd have "parents". My best friend at school had a dad who used to kiss her hand and call her "princess". I was slack-jawed at the sight of this and I do so wish I had some sort of "back-up" or support in life.

Interestingly, I end up supporting other people. Does anyone else fall into this category??

OP posts:
Swipe left for the next trending thread