Three months without seeing my mother - what to do next (long!)?

[mogwai]

Long story - I've posted about it periodically so apologies if I'm repeating myself. This is a really long post so look away now if you need to!!

My mum was a single parent who brought me up alone until I was 13. My nan helped out a lot as she lived close by, but my mum was constantly falling out with her if she stood up for herself or wouldn't agree to what my mum wanted her to do. My nan was widowed and her husband had been very controlling so after he died she didn't want to be told what to do by her own daughter.

In the end, my mum found somebody else who would look after me while she went to work so she broke contact with my nan (her mum) and forbade me ever to go and see her again, which broke my heart. I was once forced to ignore her when we saw her shopping in the town centre and when I became a teenager and secretly went to see her, she found out and didn't speak to me for days.

She had various relationships with men throughout my childhood. She was engaged several times but it never lasted and would always end in a big bust-up over her possessive and jealous nature in which she tried to control the man by not allowing him the freedom to see his friends (she seemed very insecure on the one hand and yet was incredibly vain).

When I was 13, she got married and had another child. My stepdad was okay but he had a job that took him away from home most of the week and she was constantly suspicious that there were other women. Their marriage was unhappy and she treated him like crap, so in the end he did have an affair, which she said confirmed what she suspected he would do.

After they got married and had their own child, my mother became totally disinterested in me. Soon this turned into hurtful comments and actions (such as telling me I was fat, laughing at me, belittling me) and this progressed to isolating me from anything they did as a family (going on family outings without telling me, buying three of everything during the weekly shop and parading what they had bought in front of me - for example, buying three cream cakes and mocking me as they ate theirs knowing there wasn't one for me).

By the time I was in my mid teens I'd got a saturday job because my mum refused to give me money for even basic things like school shoes. I remember her once promising to buy me a warm coat and then refusing at the last minute (out of spite and wanting to be in control), leaving me struggling with a thin cotton coat all winter. Christmas was always awful - my stepdad had a son from a previous marriage and he wasn't allowed into the house to eat dinner with us so my stepdad used to take a plate out to the freezing cold garage and the boy had to eat his dinner there. Plainly, my stepdad didn't have the balls to stand up to her.

As I got older, it got worse. She began saying awful things like how she should have had an abortion rather than have kept me. I had no other family I could turn to (my nan had died by this point) and when I seemed upset by what she was saying, she'd mock me and tell me to go and live with my real dad, knowing full well I didn't know my real dad (because she had prevented me from knowing him).

I did well at school, which was my saving grace. The teachers sort of understood what was going on at home (though I never told them outright as I wanted to seem "sorted" like everyone else) and used to let me stay behind to finish work as I couldn't get any space to do so at home (she would send my toddler sibling into my room to play when I was studying then tell her I mustn't love her because I didn't want to play with her).

In the end I met a nice lad and realised from his family set-up that mine was totally screwed up. I also had a part-time job that I fitted around my A-Levels. The fact that I had a boyfriend gave me a bit of confidence to stand up for myself at home, which she didn't like, and this made her behave worse than ever, pouring away a bottle of perfume my friends had clubbed together to buy for my eighteenth birthday (though denying she'd done it), refusing to allow my boyfriend into the house (except the kitchen).

I tried many times to "make it better", even though I had no idea what I'd done wrong. Efforts included buying her things (such as saving up to buy her a dress I knew she wanted, only to watch her parade it in front of my stepdad then hang it in her wardrobe without even a thanks) and trying to talk to her (even saying "I don't know what I've done but I'm sorry" - which led her to literally shrug me off, walk away and turn out the lights).

By the time I was applying to university things were at a peak. She refused to help with the cost of train fares to travel to interviews so the school stepped in and gave me money from their "family hardship fund" which I found really embarassing. I was offered a well paid summer job but she refused to help me with the cost of travel for the first week so I had to let the job go. I was offered another summer job in Paris but she "forgot" to pass the message on until it was too late and the job had gone.

Eventually she packed my belongings into black bin liners while I was at work and told me to leave (again mockingly saying I should go to live with my dad). I literally had nowhere to go so my boyfriend's parents allowed me to pitch a tent in the garden of their tiny house and I lived in that for three months. She had stipped my bedroom and changed the locks within 24 hours of turfing me out.

I got good A-Levels and went to univeristy but struggled with anxiety and depression and found it hard to feel motivated academically. Looking back I realise I'd been "set free" from years of emotional abuse and was suffering some sort of post-trauma stress. Eventually I got counselling which helped a lot but didn't help with my academic motivation so I eventually took a year out and got a job before changed courses and finding something I really wanted to do.

During my univerisity years I tried to maintain a relationship with my mum because I had my younger sibling, of whom I was very fond. My mum wrote to me and said I could go home for the first christmas holidays providing I stuck to a set of rules (which she listed). Having no choice I went home but it was a diaster and I cried for the whole month. She also wanted payment for "keep", which I couldn't provide, so instead she took the duvet cover and pillowcase I'd bought with my student grant and kept them for my little sister's bed, leaving me with just a duvet to go back to university in the new term. I never spent another night at home after that first year (which is 18 years ago).

Since then our relationship has been very up and down, but I maintained it for the sake of my little sister.

The year I graduated she and my stepdad got a divorce, which left her financially devastated for a long time afterwards. She began phoning me during the exam period telling me about her financial problems and trying to convince me to take on her debts (for example, a hire-purchase sofa she'd got for £2,500 to "prove a point" to my stepdad). I refused to take on her debts as I had no job lined up after university but encouraged her to re-train so she'd be able to support herself financially, which she did. Incidentally, I was still with the same boyfriend I'd met all those years ago and he was now graduated and earning good money, which I suspect she saw as an opportunity a that time.

Years go by. At 32 I got married to the same boy I'd met when I was 17. When I showed her my engagement ring she didn't offer any congratulations but changed the subject to bitching about her ex-husband. In the run-up to the wedding she advised me not to have my little sister as bridesmaid because she would "show me up" (the real reason was that my sister was trying to form a relationship with her dad and my mum didn't like it and wanted to punish her). She couldn't get her way about the seating arrangements for the wedding (had a brand new boyfriend and wanted him on the top table) so she told lies about me to my uncle, which he (sadly) believed and has never spoken to me since.

In 2005 I had my own daughter. I wrote to my mum when I was first pregnant (before she knew) telling her how she'd made me feel. She wrote back telling me it had all been my stepdad's fault and he'd made her do and say all those things (which I simply don't accept). I replied saying I didn't accept this, so eventually she said she didn't know why she'd acted like this but wanted to have a "mother daughter" relationship with me, which I decided to try, as wanted to put the past behind us now I was going to have my own children.

My daughter is now almost four and I'm expecting a second in June. My little sister is not so little now (she's 22) but still lives with my mum, who has turned her against her father (literally cut him out of photographs with scissors). They are very close; more like sisters, as my mum has never really set boundaries for her and has clung onto her for dear life since she has no other friends or family any more (constantly falls out with her only brother). My sister's not a bright girl at all - calls herself "Vicky Pollard" and is scarily accurate, but she's my sister and I love her.

SO back to the present - My mum adores my daughter - only grandchild, very cute etc etc. It's a bit suffocating at times because her walls and surfaces are covered with framed photos and whenever she sees her she begs her for kisses and cuddles that I suspect my daugher doesn't really want to give (and my mother gets from nobody else).

She has often looked after my daughter (though never overnight) but I realised recently this has always been on her own terms because when I truly needed her help (because I wanted to go to parents' evening and there was nobody else to ask), she began umming and ah-ing and said she "might" do it, whicb brought into sharp focus her need to be in control and to "withold" help to make herself feel like she has the upper hand (I eventually missed the parents evening rather than be treated like that).

My mother drains my energy. She never has a good word to say about anyone. She has (literally) no friends. She falls out with her colleagues. She would cause trouble in an empty house. She's bored all weekend as has no hobbies or interests (hence offers to "give me a break" from my daughter as has nothing else to do). I have recently become concerned about what she says about me behind my back to my daughter (who is developing a good memory).

At Christmas she didn't buy me a present, which was perfectly fine because, although I knew what I wanted, I hadn't decided on the exact item (it was just something small anyway). She asked whether she could buy it at the end of january instead, which I didn't mind until she explained she wanted to save her money to get a replacement kitchen door mid-january (hence my present owuld have to wait). My sister was given an i-pod and some Ugg boots while I was being told the kitchen door had to come first. It struck me like a slap round the face that she treats us so differently and though she claims to want a "mother daughter" relationship, she appears to actually want her cute grandaughter.

Because of this incident and because of some snotty text messages she sent me in January, I decided to stay away for a while to clear my head, which seemed preferable to a confrontation.

In mid february, my sister sent me an email saying my mum was "upset" I hadn't been in touch and that I "ought to be nicer to her because you only have one mum". This really enraged me - my mother had clearly put her up to contacting me and my sister has no idea about what I suffered as a teenager because she's had a very different relationship with our mother. I told my sister she'd be better off to keep out of things she doesn't understand, which provoked a message from my mother saying (amongst other things) that I am "obviously ashamed of both of them" and that she "realises I now move in different financial circles" but she's "still my mother" despite this. And she said she would be "devasted if she couldn't see her grandchildren anymore".

She is so wide of the mark and out of order, it's hard to know how to react. I replied saying she was stressing me out, which was not good for my pregnancy. My sister replied to this saying "I know I'm in the right". I didn't read the rest of her message because it upset me so much - I just deleted it.

It's ironic that this is the sibling I tried hard to stay in contact with despite it meaning I had to have contact with my mum. She can never know how things were for me, though I have tried to explain why I don't always get on with my mum.

SO it's been five weeks since those messages and three months since I saw either of them. My daughter has never mentioned them, which makes me feel I have an opportunity to cut them off without it affecting her. I did send my mum a mother's day card in the post (ah the guilt! no present! no visit!) but I honestly feel healthier and happier without having to deal with her or listen to her griping about other people or constant streams of questioning about our life and the lives of our friends.

At the very least, I would never, ever allow her unsupervised access to my children again but my husband feels my children may feel I've let them down by denying them a relationship with their nana so I'm not sure what to do for the best. I have no inclination to contact them at all and have felt no love for my mum since I was a teenager.

I would SO appreciate thoughts on this (long) story in terms of (a) how would you characterise my mother and her behaviour? and (b) what would you do now?

I have read "Toxic Parents", BTW and I think it helped me a lot to make sense of my abusive time at home but still it's hard to cut a parent out of your life and nobody ever understands the situation apart from very old (or very close) friends. There's an assumption that if you don't get on with "your own mother" then there must be something wrong with YOU and I never know how to respond when people ask.

TIA

I think you are amazingly strong and that you will find your own way to deal with this situation, as you seem very lucid and reasonable. It sounds as if your DH is trying hard to remain neutral and allow you the space to make your own decision. What a gem.

It sounds as if deep down you know what you want to do. I'm sure that if you continue to be as courageous and balanced as you seem now you will get through this eventually. Good luck!!

mogwai, greetings fellow Junie. What a terrible story to you to have tell. Almost unbelievable - not that I don't believe you but simply that such a thing could happen.

You need to consider the very real prospect that your toxic parent will at a minimum try and screw around with her relationships with your children and might have a punt at your relationships with them as well. I think I would try and mitigate things as much as possible by only seeing them (if at all) in a larger group setting.

You don't need to maintan a relationship with her, even though I can see why your dh thinks you should. It's like comparing apples with oranges.

What you do need to do is apply the incredible degree of courage, resilience and fortitude that you have learnt over the last 30 years to bring about a resolution that is right for you. I literally cannot believe what you have endured. I take my hat off to you. Keep posting.

Hey Tribpot - great to hear from you - four years on and I'm doing it all over again (passively, of course!!).

I've thought a lot about this thread over the last few days. I feel I'm wokring up to putting something into writing (which I may never send) but which can act as a reference point when I feel down or if I do need to write to her in the future.

I am humbled to hear people say they "admire" my courage as I think if I was really courageous I'd tell her to her face exactly how I have always felt. I often daydream about doing this but my feeligns towards her are so strong (and so negative) that I'm not sure I could contain myself. I also don't want to make her cry because then I'd have to deal with her crying, whereas if I told her in a letter that would be different.

I have been unfortunate to have her as my mother, particularly as I had no father and had no other relatives (except for the uncle who no longer speaks to me).

On the other hand I was fortunate enough to have the means to escape (through educating myself) where many people don't. I also have a lovely husband and some amazing friends; a beautiful daughter and a good life all in all. Could have been worse, I think.

I meant to add that it's hard to accept that it's "abuse". I want to tell her she's an "abuser" because then it might sink in what she's done, but even now I question whether that's too strong a word.

Definitely not too strong a word, mogwai, but maybe too strong a statement for you to make at the mo, particularly since she's likely to refute it entirely and make out it's all your fault somehow. From your posts it feels basically futile for you to engage with her at all; it won't help you, it won't mean anything to her, it stirs stuff up again so drama drama drama .. just detaching from it all sounds a much healthier option for you, plus surely is the required way to enjoy the passive pregnancy! (Also chocolate eggs, remember Miriam said no chocolate bars but did not mention the eggs).

You've displayed courage in taking the shit hand life dealt you and making something bloody good out of it. Yes you were lucky to have the ability to educate yourself and lucky in your dh but it ain't all about luck, lady.

I do think as others have said there are positive reasons to keep your dc away from your mum; she is easily likely to stoop to playing them off against you / manipulating them to sell her sob story. Far worse, surely, than them only seeing a sane set of grandparents. I'm surprised your dh can't see the possibilities. And imagine if your dsis had a baby (god forbid as she sounds like mine, complete nightmare) - your dc could well be cut straight out of the picture to spite you. How truly upsetting that would be.

Much better to give her no power now, whilst dd is still young enough not to know the difference. I do genuinely think this is in the best interests of your dc as well as you.

I'm sure you're on the Stately Homes thread, they must have some excellent ideas of how to slide a toxic parent out of your life?

Trib, I read this message days ago and didn't have time to reply.

Just wanted to say what lovely, sensible, supportive advice you offer.

You have all contributed to making me feel much stronger about this horrible ongoign issue. I have begun to think it won't always blight my life.

Gosh, your post is heart breaking. I'm sure having your own child has made you even more horrified that she could treat you like that.

I don't really know what to advise, but you must be an incredibly strong person to have survived that and remain so grounded.

I hope someone can give you some good advice.

Mogwai, I was almost in tears reading your OP. Well done for coming through this, getting your education despite enormous hurdles and building a happy life with your DH and DC. I haven't read all the posts here, so may be repeating/missing some bits...

My late mother was toxic, but nowhere near as bad as yours.

I can remember, when I was having a bad time at home as a teenager, working very hard to pass my exams, knowing that education would be my way out - and it was - and has been for you.

One incident, involving both my parents, meant I cut off contact with them completely for three months. It was the intervention of my late MIL who told my mother how stupid she was being that prompted my mother to phone up and apologise and say she wanted to resume our relationship.

I am glad that happened although we never thrashed out our differences, rather buried them under the carpet.

It seems a shame for you to lose your relationship with your little sister, but I think the only way you could move on and maintain a relationship with them would be if you and your mother went for joint counselling - family therapy.

Do you think she might do that?

Whatever happens, I'm sure you're a brilliant mum because you've experienced and survived the consequences of appalling parenting and are bright enough to know how not to repeat the mistakes of the past in your own adult life. Good luck.

I don't have much to add, although I have complete admiration for you, and the way you have made a terrible start in life into a happy one.

On the grandparents front, I only had 1 grandparent and it had made no difference to me at all and the one I did have was fairly dysfunctional as it happens. Love, consistency and esteem from a smaller number of people is worth far more than mind games from more - it sounds like your DH's family shows that.

FWIW, i think you can safely say, at the moment, that your DD and you would be far better being kept away from that kind of negativity.

My mother got pregnant to trap my Dad and when I was a girl blamed that for him not sticking around, as opposed to the real reason that she lied and cheated.

V long story cut short - in and out of care when the whim took her, chose men over me, haven't seen her for over 15 years. Is giving me grief now, though I haven't heard from her myself for 1 or 2 years.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

My kids only have DH's small family but they would gain nothing from having her in their lives - and neither would I.

Stay strong and do what is best for you first and foremost.

To update and get a little bit of advice from you guys -

Today I realised how unspeakably petty my mother really is.

Last year she bought me a subscription to BBC Good Food magazine for my birthday. I really enjoy getting the magazine and usually make something from it every month.

I was in Sainsbury's today and I saw the new edition on the shelf and realised I hadn't received a copy of it. I phoned the magazine subscription people and they tell me she actually phoned to cancel it back in February (the day after she fell out with me). So having given that to me as a birthday present, she has actually taken it back.

I've re-subcribed to the magazine myself and I know I shouldn't be surprised (knowing what she's like) but I can't help feeling really upset that she would be so nasty as to go out of her way to cancel a birthday present in retrospect.

To compound matters, I got home from work and found she has sent a parcel to our daughter for easter. It contains a dress and cardigan, some jewellery and chocolates and a card "to my grand daughter".

It would be terribly bad manners not to send a thank you card. She knows I would never consider not getting our daughter to thank her for this but I actually feel like sending the whole lot back given the way she's treated me.

She simply can't have a relationship with my three year old daughter while she treats me this way.

What do I do?

i would send it back. i would not encourage a relationship between her and your dd as she is so toxic. your dd will be missing out on a relationship, yes, but one that is manipulative and controlling. i think you are doing absolutely the right thing.

I would send it back too.

My children don't have anything to do with my mother and that is how I hope it will stay.

They miss nothing and would gain nothing too.

I really struggle with the idea of sending it back, even though it's what I'd really like to do. I'm not sure I have the strength.

She did something similar, which keeps flashing through my mind.

If you've read my OP you'll see I never knew my father. He was shocked when my mum got pregnant with me and asked her to have an abortion but she refused. She never forgave him for "not standing by her".

Although I never saw him, I did see his mother as she happened to be a colleague of my mum's. I never kknew she was actually my grandmother until my mum fell out with her and blurted it out (I was seven or eight and really couldn't work out how she could be my granny).

I never really saw her again but she knew where we lived and she sent a card ten years later for my eighteenth. My mum didn't give me the card but did show it to me a few dys later. She told me she wanted to send the card back to this woman.

I had no idea that she did actually send it back. What she actually did was tear it into pieces and put it back in a return envelope without telling me. I happened to see the woman (my granny) a few months later because I had a job in a supermarket and she came shopping though my till and saw my name badge. She immediately began crying and told me she was my granny and asked how I could be so cruel to have ripped up the card and sent it back.

It haunts me that she thought I'd done that. There's no question of me ripping any clothes up, but the whole sending them back reminds me so much of that episode I can't get it out of my head.

God, what an utter loon she sounds.
I wouldn't send it back. You reinforce her in that way by setting up a dialogue. Refuse to get involved, don't respond.

Give the parcel intact (sans card) to a women's refuge and make someone else happy.

I don't see why it would be terribly bad manners not to send a thank-you card.

Don't get taken down a road you don't want to travel because of good manners...

I second the idea of just passing it on to somewhere else. Don't get sucked in. Don't let DD get sucked in either.

This is so sad for you. I understand how hard it is for you but I do think that unless you can forgive her or cut off your ties to her, you are always going to be putting yourself through this version of hell. Personally, after everything she has done, I don't think anyone could blame you for deciding you cannot forgive her ( I am not sure I could if I was in your position), but only you know how much you do or don't want to have a relationship with her. The fact is that until your DD is much older, any relationship she has with your mother, needs to be conducted through you. If your mum is so petty as to cancel a birthday present, personally, that would be the end of any relationship for me.
And yes, I would send back the gifts she sent your daughter. It will be harder and more hurtful for you then for her. It sounds like she really only wants to use your daughter to get back at you. Cut the ties, move on and be happy, because I don't think you will ever be happy while she pulls the strings in this very toxic relationship. for you.

Wow Mogwai, read just your posts and you are some woman to have come through all of that and be what sounds like a very stable, happy, compassionate person.

She has been nothing but evil to you your whole life and you can rest assured she would try to 'fu(k up' (sorry for the language) your own family unit too.

You came out the other end, who is to say what affect she might have on your children. Rest assured once your children are old enough she will play her mind games on them too, and as you said, you dont know what she has already been saying to your dd.

Your husband is an admirable man to be able to stay out of it. I would think from the point that he doesnt want to be the one to make the decision for you. You haven't spoken together about what to do, but you know what he would like you to do.

The woman is poison, and it seems the sister you have so long remained in contact with both for is now turning against you at the instigation of your mother.

She does not deserve any grandmother priveliges, she was no mother in the first instance.

Cut her out and move on with your little family.

Good luck, again you are amzing!

in that case i would not send the gift back, but nor would i send a thank you card.

i really think you have to cut contact with this woman, and any further communication where you send something to her, no matter what it is will be keeping the lines open.

my god, you really have been through the wringer. i think you need to get your dh onside with this, because i really think you do need to protect your kids from this level of downright meanness.

I would also send it back, your daughter is only 4 so could have not done it herself, and your mother will know this.

She has no right to keep making you feel like this.

Have just read the whole thread from start to finish and feel very sad for those of you in similar situations, I can't imagine how you have coped.

Thanks for your replies.

I got very upset about this after dinner tonight. Started really when I was putting my daughter to bed and reading her a story. Was trying to keep my mind on the story but kept thinking how I could never treat my own daughter how I have been treated. Was so relieved to put her to bed so I could go downstairs and tell DH what had happened and have a cry.

The whole business makes me feel so lonely and alone in the world, even though I have my own family now. Nothing quite like being maltreated by the one person who is supposed to love you no matter what.

We have decided not to send the gifts back because DH thinks the best thing is to stay passive. He's a very level-headed person and he's probably right. He thinks we should stay passive as this will avoid provoking a reaction and will leave her unsure what effect her actions have.

Aside from this I know now that I definitely don't want her in our lives but it's tricky knowing how to deal with gifts (and particularly with cards). In terms of gifts you can give them away or file them away or they can just get lost with all of the other gubbins that kids have.

Cards are more sentimental and carry a direct message to keep that person in the other person's mind. I would rather that our daughter was not provoked into thinking about my mum (as she otherwise doesn't mention her) but DH feels we should show her any cards she receives, play them down and hope they will blend into everything else. Certainly I can see this would be possible in the excitement of birthdays/Christmas. The alternative to is take active steps to withold cards and that doesn't sit well with me given my own childhood experiences.

I have no idea what we will do when the new baby arrives or when it's her birthday. It upset me to write out a mothers' day card and if I'd known that she cancelled my birthday present (which she apparently did in February) I wouldn't have felt so compelled to send one.

Presumably we text her about the baby letting her know the sex, weight etc.

I can't believe she is still reducing me to tears after all this time. I really honestly appreciate the support you have all given me on this thread - it has made a real difference to my ability to cope with this issue at the moment (especially being as I'm pregnant).

So yesterday we went for lunch at my in-laws house.

They asked me when I'd last seen my mother and I said it was Christmas, which they know because they've asked me this everytime I've seen them recently.

They know the history I have with her as I've been with my husband for almost 20 years now and yet still they don't really appreciate what she's like because, I suppose, they are a "normal" family and can't imagine what she's capable of.

I told them about the issue with her cancelling my birthday present and they couldn't believe it, in so far as they shook their heads and said "flaming hell" but that was it.

(To be honest I much prefer the support of one of my girlfriends, who said "your mother is utterly fucking horrible" but then she's known me since I was 14).

We were discussing how to proceed with the situation. To them, it's unthinkable that I could ever cease contact with her, because of our daughter. This has become an issue recently because she has finally started asking questions about why she hasn't seen her other nana (this was prompted when we went out shopping and DH took a route that passed the top of my mum's road - a route I've avoided in case it provoked the same reaction).

I've found myself saying that we can't go and see Nana because she's "at work", which was actually true on the day we passed the top of the road, but I feel uneasy lying at other times.

One of the other issues bothering me is that, if we decide she can have some limited contact with our daughter then how can we stop her having contact with the child that's not yet born? I sincerely wish I'd never let her back into our lives three years ago so why would I willingly introduce her into the life of our second child?

This is a really tricky issue. I have no desire whatsoever to have her in my life and would be glad never to set eyes on her again but I don't know how to cope with our daughter's questions and whether to be truthful and say something along the lines of "nana is mean to mummy and this upsets me. I don't want her to be mean to us anymore". I'm not sure this is the sort of thing one ought to be saying to a child of almost four.

Also, regarding contact, I don't want the woman in my house. She does nothing but cast her eyes around asking me what things have cost or commenting on how I might change the decor or what she's seen that I could buy. We don't share the same taste and I've spent years either saying "oh I don't really want one of those" (which leads to her picking an argument saying I'm insulting her taste) or agreeing that I "might" buy whatever it is she's talking about, which just leads her to talk about it every time I see her afterwards.

She makes my skin crawl.

Come on ladies, I need your help - what do I do? DH says it would "make his life easier" if we didn't have to see her but also says he wants to "have hisown opinion that's not swayed by mine" in terms of what's right for our daughter. I appreciate this, but he doesn't have a solution for what we do about the new baby.

I would never send presents back that are for your children. They aren't yours to send back. The present is for the child and should be given to her. You may want no contact with your mother, and might not want your daughter to see her because of this, but you should pass on any presents. Children aren't possessions and the presents aren't for you.
If your daughter's relationship with her grandmother is OK could she maybe see her 3 or 4 times a year? Bad parents aren't necessarily bad grandparents.

There is no question of sending presents back - that is an old discussion.

People who use children manipulatively will always have the power to do so.

My mother used me manipulatively against my father. She refused to let him see me, which led to him seeing a psychiatrist.

She used my little sister against me - she used to send her up to my bedroom when I was studying for my A levels, then when I asked her to go back downstairs, she would tell my sister this was because I "didn't love her".

Later she used her manipulatively against her father to the point my sister no longer has a relationship with her dad and can't even see she's been manipulated.

Some people are just nasty, inherently. So selfish they think nothing of poisoning children against other people.

Do you think I am wrong to want to protect my children from this narcisstic emotional abuse? My unborn child who's yet to even meet her?

Mogwai - I don't think you are wrong. I think it absolutely the right thing to do. Don't concern yourself with what your mum might want, just hink about you and you're own family. Only you know what she is truly like and what she is capable of. I'm sure you are the last person who would treat your children as possetions after the way you have been treated. Of course you are just trying to protect your children from what you had to go through, that's the right thing to to. Good luck, hope you can work out something for the best that your dh agree's with too.