I am really quite worried about my SIL...

[Squirdle]

My SIL has just called for a chat. It started off as a normal chat, with both of us having a grumble about partners etc, how the kids were and it ended with me feeling really worried about her.

She said her partner has been very distant with her this week and also quite nasty with his words. She said she didn't know what she had done but that she was now fed up with it. His mum has melanoma and obv he is worried about her, so that is what I suggested.

She then told me about an incident which had occured last week. Apparently he had hacked something in the garden and she wasn't happy with the result. She generally won't say anything about something which upsets her, but she was quite cross and told him. He came in and lunged at her while she was ironing. She held up the iron in front of her and told him not to touch her. He grabbed the iron and pinned her down and held his fist up to her. She said she then found my nephew hiding behind the table in the kitchen and he asked if his dad had hurt her.

Now I know this isn't first time he has done something like this and I am firstly am very very concerned about her. I have told her that under no circumstances must she allow him to treat her this way, I am concerned about the boys and I am concerned that she is playing it down and has lost all confidence in herself. I am really worried about her.

She asked me not to tell my DH (her brother) but i am feeling like I don't really have a choice but to tell him. They are close and I have absolutely no idea how he will take this. I worry that he will totally blow his top and storm down there (we live 2 hours away) Also am I betraying SIL's trust if I say something to DH? If she didn't leave him, she would never tell me anything again...and that worries me.

I don't know what to do!!!

Hellymelly, makes a good point.

Part of the reason I kept my secret for so long was because I didn't feel strong enough to take my children to a shelter. Rightly or wrongly I perceived that to be more than I could bare in my state of mind at the time.

So, offers of help were virtually worthless. Anything short of a roof over our heads for the foreseable future was worthless. All my friends would have wanted to have helped me, but few wanted to help me THAT much I suspected. So, I kept quiet for a long time.

i think as there is a child involved, his needs should supercede everything else.

if that means telling your DH, i think that's what you should do.

that's easy to say obviously and not so easy to do but ultimately, i think the priority should be his emotional and physical safety.

Absolutely. For a while, I believed I was staying for my child. BUt she had turned into a clingy, whingey, insecure, unhappy child. I only SAW this in a blinding flash when she started wetting her knickers again, after 3 yrs of being dry.

Now she is happy, confident, curious, and although it's hard for me, she does see her father occassionally. He is a bastard but I allow him to see her a few times a year so that she has a face to the name Daddy.

There are 2 children involved.

She will always have a somewhere to come to if she needs it and I have told her that.

I don't think she is yet at the point where she wants to do something...but when does that point come, when he has really injured her? When her confidence and self esteem is so low, she couldn't even consider getting out? I don't want it to get that far.

I have tried to call her, but she isn't home, so I will call again later.

I may be wrong, but I am thinking that the more people who know the better. Even if DH doesn't say anything to him, she can tell him that we know...although will that make him angry?

I know when I call her she will say it's not as bad as I think, and it probably isn't as bad as most cases, but it is bad enough and could get worse...I don't know. If she won't leave him, then she has to have a plan for the future. He has to know that people know and will do something. I don't know, I'm kind of just thinking aloud here.

DH would be really upset if he found this out later on and found out I knew and didn't tell him....but I don't know if that is right.

i would tell dh without a doubt. this guy has got your sil where he wants her - too ashamed and scared to speak out. kids are involved. there's too much at stake here.

hope she comes for the weekend.

Squirdle, I stayed (for too long) because I thought I could handle 'it' (the violence) I told myself it was not every day, not a big deal, I told myself I wasn't a victim type, wasn't a doormat, so if I weren't a victim type, was it really domestic violence???

I perceived myself to be stronger than the average victim of DV. I worried about the stigma of being a single mother nuts! I know that now. I didn't want the neighbours to know, my old colleagues to know.... people I don't give a second thought to noW! I was so caught up with maintaining the facade, and yet, I believed at the time that my self-esteem wasnt low and that I could 'handle it'.

I also used to ask myself, how happy was my grandma??? and 'is it realistic to expect to be happy? is happy in your relationship a new phenomenon?

My thinking was fairly distorted as you can see, I rationalised everthing. So I see what you're up against.

I have noticed on these boards that 8 years seems to flag up again and again, thread after thread about women who are at the end of their tether with abusive partners., although this thread wasn't started by your sil.

How long has your SIL been with this guy??

I have no experience of DV so my perspective is more about your relationship with your DH, your SIL and his with his sister. (if that makes any sense!) I think you should tell her that you have to tell DH - that you don't have secrets and that you can't have secrets from him as important as this. (Especially as he loves her so much.) You also need to explain to him that he needs to support her rather than just rush down to see to her husband.

it IS bad enough,Squirdle.

has she phoned Women's Aid?

maybe you could phone them to get some advise for yourself?

Could she go on holiday with you? A bit of distance, in a new place, makes you believe and contemplate that starting again is possible.

I finally thought yes I can do it, I can leave him and start again 'at my age' after I'd been away from him for a couple of weeks. I'd gone to Ireland and the children got chicken pox and the airline wouldn't let them fly back. He was furious of course. But it made me feel detached from him. gave me a taste of how relaxed an ordinary mundane life could be, even without money or a nice house, I realised I would be free to enjoy the simpler things in life. My children, walks in the country, making some new friends,, reading the paper with a cup of tea!! I only felt that a new life was possible after two weeks away.

helly is right, often the men do not let the women leave. God knows what he's told her, he'll keep the boys or such thing.

If I were you I would definitely tell her brother, but in a very calm way and remind him (!!) that he mustn't run to bang his BILs head in because that will come back threefold to his poor SIL, I have no doubt about that.

It is of utmost importance that your DSIL packs a getout bag and if possible keeps it at yours (do you live far away from each other?) consisting of passports (at least copies), NHS cards (copies), a few bits n bops for the dc (they'd love their own stuff even if it's just a handful of items), copies of all docs she might need to go to banks, etc.

And you will need to re-iterate again and again that she has a place at yours day or night she should ring you or just come regardless. That you love her and will be there for you. That love might break the ice to get her to open up. When a woman (and Mum) experiences physical violence she cowes for the sake of her kids. It is so very sad to hear that her son witnessed this because kids do remember. For the sake of her sons it would be best to go and walk away from this violent man who lunged at her over a bloody gardening issue.

Another thing: the fact that she held up the iron in her defence shows she anticipated him to get violent which implies this has happened before. I have been through martial arts schooling and various self defence courses, please tell her that anything she uses to defend herself can be used against her when this guy is in a blind rage. [shudders at the very thought]

Oh and: violent men don't change. They've done it once, they've over-stepped the mark, they'll do it again...and again...until someone comes to harm. And don't forget the kids are witnessing every bit of it.

She has been with him for 16 years. her boys are 7 1/2 and nearly 5. She said last night that she couldn't remember if he had been like this before the boys were born and that he mustn't have been or she wouldn't be with him now.

She doesn't think she could cope with the boys on her own, which surprised me as I have always seen her as very capable. She is a primary school teacher and always very hands on with all of the boys. This is why I am so worried about her self esteem. that wasn't the SIL i knwo on the phone last night

I know I can't keep this from DH..he needs to know and be supportive. I just hope i can make him see that storming down there won't help the situation.

I'm trying to put myself in her shoes. I think that I would feel safer knowing that my brother was there to support me.

I wish I could assure her that only when you have to use up every gram of your internal resources just to tread water in a tidal wave of misery of living with DV, then yes, every tiny little task and job seems an insurmountable hurdle.

When I left my x I suddenly somehow found the strength to arrange new schools, apply for lone parent allowance (doesn't sound like much, but just going down to the social welfare office was almost too much of a nightmare for me) but I did it. I filled in a million forms to get PPS numbers for the children, more forms for the children's allowance! I changed banks got a new mobile phone (I had moved to a new country too you see).

when the size 13 shoe was lifted off my soul I found I could more than look after two children. It became easier not harder.

Unless he is emotionally and practically supportive, then being a single parent is MUCH easier.

Leaving is hard, without a doubt, but if you can express to her that she would need to be strong in a big burst, but then the reward is that life seems like freewheeling afterwards. Once it has all died down and all the new arrangements have been made and all the fall out from leaving has 'settled' then you don't need 'strength' anymore!! I used to need to be strong every day, just to get through the day and stay sane and parent my children.

Now I have the luxury of storing my strength up for when I need it.

Your sil is lucky to have you and her brother behind her. She can do it. it must be torture for you too, to have to sit on the sidelines, just as paralysed.

So sorry to read this and hear about your SIL. You're right squirdle, the H has already spun his web around her, sucking any self-esteem out of her. Repeated injuries, logged with doctor? Please, please get her to come over to yours for a long WE, just with the boys or on her own and talk to her. She is clearly in danger. You know, most violent men don't stop beating and intimidating until they inflict maximum pain or even death on their victims. For the sake of her boys, get her out of this relationship. It's not right. Show her support and offer it whenever you speak to her.

I have just tried womens aid but they are busy....

You see it may just be me being naive (and I fully accept I don't understand the ins and outs of DV) but i don't think she is in immediate danger of being severly harmed or worse. If I thought that then I would be on the phone to DH right now. I think more than anything it's the emotional effect this is having on her which is worrying. She has made it clear to him that she won't put up with any abuse quietly, but obv she has kept last week quiet. She kept saying last night that she was being too sensitive or maybe because she had changed her pill it was affecting her hormones...she isn't daft...she can't see what he has done to her emotionally!!

Could you warn her that you have to tell your dh about this. That if the tables were turned, you would not expect him to keep something so important from you.

Maybe give her the chance to tell him herself?

Could you get her to come to stay with you by asking her for a favour of her help with something?

Squirdle, can you somehow (if she comes to stay) show your SIL this thread? Or can you explain to your SIL how your DH would feel should the situation worsen, and you knew and he didn't? Can you put it to her that, for the sake of your nephews, you MUST - on principle - do something/tell DH? What I'm getting at is that she has told you something in confidance and, if at all possible, you need to honour that confidance - but can you somehow gently persuade her to open up to your DH herself, or allow you to?

I don't like the idea of letting all and sundry know, to 'out' this man. Yes, domestic violence thrives in secrecy, but your SIL will also have pride to keep intact, and if she does eventually exit this relationship - with, say, just you and DH knowing and being 100% there for her - she can do so with dignity and without the circumstances being so public and potentially humiliating.

I think the idea of encouraging her to pack a bag or two, containing all she needs to make a swift exit, is a good one.

Good luck.

Is there a list available from women's aid detailing what actually constitutes domestic abuse.

I remember seeing one, after I'd already left, but I was really shocked, all but one of the things on the list my x used to do. Including belittling my friends and family, and controlling all the money. It was an eye-opener. If I'd seen one before I left him it would have made me feel more sure, more entitled to leave.

You all should be on the womens aid helpline. She gave me very similar advice to you all on here!

I am still confused about the telling DH, mainly because I don't want her to clam up and not trust me again.

She will thank you for it one day. I think, looking back, I wouldn't have wanted some peripheral person to blow the whistle and then go safely back to their own cosy life.

But my brother and my sister in law, who were determined that I move in with them and were going to support me and give me a leg up to start my own life, that would have been completely different.

We are there for her 100% and I am going to keep telling her that.