Our 5th visit to the Stately Home

[Nabster]

Here we go again.

I don't think you lost your best mate because of the self-preservation thing. I think you were probably attracted to toxic friends like most of us were, high-maintenance, not very nice people who took a lot of our time and energy and had no boundaries (i.e everything we were used to at home.) What your "friend" said to you was appalling and one thing I have learned from all of this is that NO-ONE can MAKE another person do anything. SO a child can'T MAKE an adult hit them just like a woman can't MAKE her husband hit her (i.e "you made me do it).

Your friend's response was totally her and not you at all. If someone told us something that shocked us you don't go telling that person they are shit and don't deserve their kids. THat is a despicable thing to say and a reflection on the person who is saying it, no-one else.
As time goes you start to recognize these toxic people and can start to avoid them before you get in too deep. I've always been "grateful" to have friends and have enjoyed the closeness that comes from befriending people who have no boundaries (looking for something I never got with my mother, I suppose.)
But nowadays if I start a friendship and that person says something I'm not uncomfortable with, instead of automatically thinking "Oh my god I have to change that thing abotu myself, she's so right" or thinking "if I don't try to make this right I'm going to lose this friendship" (fear of abandonment!) I think, "Okay, she thinks that about me. I would never say something like that to her and would never be so disrespectful to someone" Then I start to give that person a wide berth instead of trying to make them like me like I would have in the past.
But learning to be on your own is so liberating and realising that you are actually better off without these people in your life is helpful

Yeah I undestad that totally Sakura, I really do. But we'd been mates for alomst 21 years and never a prob before now.

I also understand about 'being grateful'. I've been aware the last 6 months that I HAVE NO friends anymore. I buggered off the mate who was in front of my dad. She was hugely toxic, always begging for money, wanting something.
I can't start friendships now, because I am terrified of the rejection...and them not liking me. I've been made to feel totally fucking hideous and vile by other people, I do not have the confidence to spark up a conversation. I hide behind my pc, just like I am here. But in RL, my phone never rings for me, there is no extended family. My nan is still alive and haven't seen her since early 90's owing to my dad telling her where to go. My kids have never met her, nor my uncle and aunt.

I can honestly say that the only people I talk to all week, are my DDs, the girls at the supermarket and exh on a Friday night when he picks the girls up. The rest is all hidden behind a pc. Pretending to be someone I'm not.

It's just horrible. And I'm so bloody lonely. It's just me, the DDs and the pets most days. I can't even get out of bed tis week. Got up and got DD2 to school and I go back to bed when she's gone. The safety under the quilt and protection from the world is so alluring. Then I get pissed to feel better.

I'd never think of ever saying what she said, back at her. New mum lovely DH and DS. If I was so shit, she wouldnt have asked me to babysit.

I've had enough of being liberated now. I've been single for years. It's actually starting to get on my tits that I am so lonely.

And I don't know how to get out of it.

Purpleone, I know about wanting to stay under the duvet all day. The only reason i get out of bed sometimes is because i have to because of the DC's school etc.

I also know about feeling lonely. I feel lonely all the time. It lessens a little when DH and I spend some time together and i feel really close to him, but if he's not around for some reason ie like last night he went out after work, i feel awful all day. Lonely and anxious, worried about DH getting home safely; he's all i've got, the only person who cares about me and will look out for me.

I also lost a 'friend' who i have known for over 20 years. I can see now though that it was an unhealthy friendship, she was toxic, came from a highly dysfunctional family. Although ironically it was because we had so much in common that we were friends in the first place. But she said some very hurtful things to me, and for the first time in our friendship i decided i did not deserve to be treated like that and that i deserved better. She had said hurtful things to me in the past but i had just ignored her comments. I can see now i had such low self esteem and self confidence that i was willing to be treated badly by her just to feel i had a friend.

I only have 1 friend left, but we don't really have a lot in common these days, she's single, no kids, she doesn't understand my life at all. But she's not toxic so we are still friends.

Purpleone, if you want somebody to talk to about your childhood stuff you can call NAPAC they have a free helpline, 09000 853 330 and their counsellors are trained in issues to do with adult survivors of childhood abuse.

They can also point you in the direction of other organisations in your area that may be able to help you, such as local women's centres etc. I contacted my local women's centre a while ago and they put me in touch with a counsellor who i didn't go to in the end. But i had this image of women's centre as quite run down places for dv victims but it was a really nice place, lovely people, totally confidential and they just wanted to help in any way they could and it was free. Perhaps you could give it a go?

I've been feeling really angry this morning. I think it's because i have been reading a thread about religious circumsicion of babies. Most if not all of the posters on the thread thought it was akin to child abuse and it made me so angry to think of poor little babies being put through such trauma and pain at the hands of it's parents. I knew it was a practise still carried out today, but now that i have my gorgeous little boy with whom i and totally besotted, i cannot bear to think of little babies just as he once was being hurt in such a way.

I suppose these days i find myself getting angry very easily whenever i hear or read about children being abused/exploited. My counsellor said that many people feel this anger like me and it is the energy that comes with the anger that drives people to set up charities and organisation to help vulnerable children.

I have come to quite a sad realisation about my youngest sister. I have realised that when she is putting her family in law first, it is not about me, a rejection of me or due to a dislike of me or anything like that. It is simply the fact that she has been lucky enough to find a surrogate or substitute family who have taken her in, almost adopted her as one of their own, who treat her as well as they treat their own biological children. And like me, i am sure she has always been longing for a real family given that her biological family was so dysfunctional it was incapable of giving her or me what we needed in terms of love, warmth, support etc.

She is getting her needs met by her family in law and so in 13 years of being with her partner has grown very close to his family and loves them as if they were her actual family. I cannot blame her for that at all, it is my parent's fault that she had to look elsewhere for love and affection and she is very lucky to have found it in her family in law.

It is a sad realisation for me as i feel that the relationship i have with my youngest sister will always remain as it is now. We are not close, we keep in touch, but there is no real feeling there between us. We do not talk about personal things with each other or really open up to each other. I had thought until now that this would change as she had children and they grew older, i thought she would have a bit more understanding of how i feel and that we would become closer because of our children. But i can see now this will never happen, she is happy to be in contact with me and have a limited relationship with me which is on good terms, but she definately considers her real family to be her family in law. She has basically been driven away from her own family by my parents and i have lost out on a close relationship with her because of our family problems.

Re middle sister, i don't really know what to make of her. She is definately toxic, she has no idea of this though, she has major issues due to our parents that she needs to address but i am sure she will never have the courage or capacity to do so. I know i need to keep her at arm's length as otherwise i know she will hurt me; almost every time i talk to her or have any contact with her she has upset me in some way. And so has her husband, i don't know him very well but i am beginning to think he is toxic too. I think he is exploiting my sister, but she is too weak to stand up to him. They are heading for a classic dsyfunctional family, especially now they have a baby on the way. I can only stand and watch as her life unfolds like a car crash in slow motion.

I am actually feeling a bit better these last few days about my mother. Now that i have seperated in my mind the two concepts of love and mother/child bond i feel happier. My mother did not bond with me at all and was therefore not driven to protect me at all costa against my father's abuse. But that does not mean she did not love me. This has always confused me as i have felt sometimes that she did love me and i couldn't understand how she could love me and still watch my dad abusing me. But i think a mother can love her child but not bond with her, but a bond cannot exist alone it is always coupled with love.

So i bonded instantly with DS and i love him to bits. But i did not bond at all with DD and yet i have always known that i do love her despite the lack of a bond. My mother took no steps to try and develop a bond with me and so we grew further and further apart and from my pov, this is exactly how i felt, as time went on i felt so far apart from my mother, not close at all. However, i have taken huge strides in trying to create and maintain a bond with DD and i really feel that i have at least the beginnings of bond with her. And i think she feels it too, i have noticed subtle changes in her behaviour towards me, and it makes me so happy. My fear that i am going to repeat my mother's pattern with DD is receding. I know i have to keep working on strengthening the bond, but for me, the very fact that i feel we now have a bond as compared to even a year ago when i felt no bond at all is a big achievment.

Sorry the NAPAC helpline is 08000 not 09000

oneplusone - I have made my ILs my surrogate family. I am lucky. I think you are right about your youngest sister but it must be hard. I don't have any siblings.

I feel like I have been a terrible mum today. I am 30 weeks pregnant and a bit hormonal. I have been irritable with my son. He is obsessed with cars and diggers (as a lot of 3 year old boys are!) but I find myself wishing he would be a bit more interested in other things (more for my own stimulation I suppose). I tried to engage him in arty stuff and ended up shouting at him because he wanted to pretend the pens were rockets and not draw with them

I am so terrified of ending up like my Dad, who just pushed me into what he liked and takes no interest in my likes and dislikes. I know I was wrong and I hugged my DS afterwards and told him his art was brilliant. He hasn't got upset or anything but the guilt cripples me sometimes.

I try to be easier on myself. I am pregnant and my DS has been playing up a bit more recently. I love him/have bonded with him dearly and I know no mother gets it right all the time. But I just feel I overstepped the line this time.

I am sick of this crippling fear and guilt that I will end up like my parents and he will feel the same about me as I do about my parents i.e. hatred most of the time

roseability

You have what your parents also likely never had - insight. You won't be like your parents as they taught you how not to behave when it comes to parenting. You apologised subsequently to your son and that can only be a good thing for you both. It shows him that we as adults can say sorry too (I have done same and have said sorry as well subsequently). And you're now 30 weeks as well; you no doubt feel hormonal as well on top of perhaps feeling tired.

Please do not feel guilty either - guilt is a truly useless emotion!.

I wish you well and please be kind to yourself!.

Attila x

p.s Will keep up my time honored strategy of physical and mental distance away from BIL. Actually I no longer consider I have a BIL. Been advised that there is a glowing article and photo of FIL in the paper today - no doubt feeding his naricissism no end .

Thanks Atilla - I do know and admit when I am wrong and I do apologise. Something my parents never did. I am sure a lot of it is hormones and I have tried to explain (as best you can to a 3 year old!) that mummy is tired and she doesn't mean it.

I was artistic (but with reading and creative writing) but this was dismissed as my father wanted me to be a great sports person. I try to encourage my DS artistic side but would never want this to cross the line into me pushing him in a direction he doesn't want. One of the most important parts of parenting is accepting and loving your children for who they are and being proud of that.

My DH once made an interesting point. We were watching the jackass movie and I was moaning that it was vulgar rubbish! He said 'what if one of them was your son, would you be proud of him?'. Well yes I would, would have to be. Our children will rarely choose a path we would expect, but that is the fun of it?

I am so pleased you keep distance from your toxic ILs. I am finally getting the distance from my parents that I need.

There have been so many harrowing posts of child abuse recently, I feel ill equipped to comment. My parents are toxic but I feel I have not had it as bad as a lot of people on this thread. It is a cop out but I do read your posts, feel deeply shocked and sorry for you.

The only advice I can offer is make sure you are getting counselling. This saved me.

The fact that you post on here means you have an insight that your abusers never had and that will mean you can do better by your own children.

Purpleone- >I was thinking about you and your situation a lot today. It made me feel so incredibly angry that your parents blamed you for surviving. That's what it boils down to after all isnt it.

Was that in any way your fault? Did you have any control over that? Of course not.
Is there any chance you could have been born bad?

NO

Take a look at your daughters. Remember them as babies? There lies the answer.

The very thing that saved me was doubt. When I had my son, for the first time I doubted my parents opinion of me. I saw how innocent and perfect he was. That 'was' me. I wasnt born bad, I had bad and worthless thrust upon me by a woman who felt that about herself. Instead of owning those feelings she thrust them onto an innocent child.

I've been lonely too. Desperately so, but when you feel 'that bad' inside you actually don't want to let people close to you. If you did then they would find out what lay beneath. right?

I think that's why I often picked friends and men who weren't capable of real closeness or intimacy.

I think it's also why I too often hid myself under the duvet. Scared to show my bad/ worthless face to the world.

But Im not bad and Im not worthless. And the more I dare to believe that the more I want to venture outside.

So how can we create the doubt in your mind Purpleone? Would you dare to believe our opinion on here over your mother's/fathers?

Because I can tell you now...I would choose 'you' over them everytime.

I still doubt myself, too. I think, it's me. ALways. But having told my therapist about some of the recent scenarios he tells me it is not me, it is them. And that is enough to plant the seed of doubt, as you say, smithfield.

Saw my sis today. DH said she behaved as if I were someone she hardly knew. There was no warmth. Her talk is still of how fast her car is, how much money she has. SHe seems very detached.

I think part fo it is that she has wanted me to feel that she has so much more than me, has 'it all' so to speak. But surely it must be clear to her now, with my beautiful family, that I do not envy her, and never have. I just wanted a sister. But she doesn't do 'normal' relationships.

Before she came, I felt all the guilt and bad feelings coming over me again.

I too worry that my bond with my DD1 is not all it could be, but I do love and cherish her. I am doing my best for her, and thigns are improving with the greater insight into my feelings now I am in therapy.

I am sometimes short and irritable with my DC, but I do not comfort them afterwards by telling them how over-sensitive they are, and making them apologise for not being perfect, or that if only they would do as I say they will be good people and worthy of my love. No. I tell them I am sorry, that it was not their fault, and that I love them always.

But I worry that they have seen me in tears too often. That they have seen my anxiety spill over into anger towards DH. These are things I wish I could take back.

Purpleone I thought I was destined to have no friends for the rest of my life. I had toxic friends. And the good friends I pushed away with paranoia and negativity. I have a couple of friends who are really, genuinely lovely, and some peopple who I am friendly with, but I know now that is ok. I don't have to be their best friend. I think I am learni9ng a bit.

I am so glad I have finally started to deal with all this.

ActingNormal - It is your insight which is so important. Do not be too hard on yourself, we all have bad days. We are influenced by our abuse and thus I really understand why you are sensitive about the relationship between your children. I think we look into things more deeply than other parents and beat ourselves up more, because of our pasts. Your day actually sounds like the day in a life of any mum!

This insight can be positive. Lets hang onto that. You will not tolerate bullying between siblings which will set a good example. There were abusive issues surrounding food in my childhood e.g. my father used to call me 'a fat cow' after weighing me and counting how many biscuits I had eaten. I am determined not to make food/weight an issue for my DS. Oneplusone, you really try to develop the bond with your daughter, which means you want that bond. When you mentioned that you had taken your daughter shopping for a new outfit on Mother's Day I almost cried. Such a simple but lovely thing to do. I don't remember such nice moments with my adoptive mother and I can't wait share such moments with my unborn daughter.

Purpleone - please, please seek therapy and keep talking to us. I too used to binge drink thinking it was normal student behaviour. I realise now I was blocking out pain as when I was drunk I would break down about my dead birth mother. I now have a much healthier attitude to alcohol. This is not your fault.

PinkyMinxy - I was always told I was too over sensitive as well. A classic toxic/abusive line. The fact that you apologise is a beautiful thing. We all get irritable with our children, this is normal/human.

But it is recognising when that irritation is unwarrented and apologising that makes a good Mum. I am more irritable with my DS currently because I am heavily pregnant and tired. However everyday I tell him he is special and much loved, that Mummy is just tired.

Thank you so much for your caring and thoughtful replies to my last post, oneplusone and AN. I really appreciated them. I am exhausted at the moment, but some of it is from doing a lot of really nice things - really nice, normal things I feared I would never get the chance to do: playing with my DS on the swings, taking him out and about, all the things that mums do... for me it was an enormous mountain to climb just to get to be a mum, and I still can't quite believe I am.

I wish I had a bit more energy tho to respond to some of the things people have been saying, but I am reading, as always, and taking it in and thinking of you all.

Smithfield, I second your words to Purpleone.

AN, the difference between us and our toxic parents is our awareness and our intention - we WANT to be the best parents we can be to them, we are TRYING to create a better world for ourselves and our DC, and we are doing whatever we can to find a solution to incredibly hard problems. Our parents just said everything was our fault, we were difficult, we were the problem etc. That difference is crucial, no matter how much we get things wrong (and who on earth gets it right?)

Must stop there and get some sleep.

As usual I am very drunk tonight.

Thankyou all for your wise comforting words.

I don't know what on Earth happened today, but I had a flashback. (I get them a lot) I think I was about 13 years old and sitting in an office with my parents. There was a woman there too. All I can remember out of the depths of my mind, was that we was in Mitcham (Surrey, close to where I grew up) and remember the woman talking to me on my own. Good Lordy knows what I did wrong but the one thing that jumped out at me was while I was sitting in that chair, in that office, my dad pipes up and said 'so, when are you going to take her away?' I honestly cannot remember anymore than that for now...but it's really upsetting.

I'm also a sensitive soul also. Commonly referred to as 'touchy'. I take everything people say, the wrong way, and disgest it and let it eat me up alive for days on end.

It's been a really horrible day here today. This is not life. This is not living. It is just a mere blip of existence for me. The DDs kicked off earlier. DD2 ended up with a mobile phone being thrown at her head and kicked by DD1 (common occurence), the cat was sick all over the place and DD1 stormed off upstairs, treading cat sick into the carpet even more, yelling her head off at me that 'I'm worthless, useless and a fucking lazy bitch'. Had to leave DD2 screaming and crying to deal with DD1.

And I'm fed up with exh walking all over me and treating me like a fucking doormat. I don't know how to stand up for myself and gain that confidence, without letting all that simmering anger under the surface and blowing my stack.
I often feel like just walking away from it all and letting exh deal with it. But I'd still carry all the pain and anguish around with me wouldn't I? And I'd just be abandoning my girls...just like my own mother did. And that eats me up even more for even having those thoughts.

Don't even suggest Social Services. On one hand they threaten to take my kids away, and on the other side, they do actually bugger all to help the situation. Our family worker is just a spit of a kid whose just got her NVQ. Comes round here telling me what to do, empty threats to ruin my life even more. She wouldn't have a bloody clue about living!

I'm sorry if I sound so angry. It's not directed at anyone. But I need to go off and cry. I have a lump in my throat and I'm almost choking on it. I'm sure I'll feel better in the morning, after the release thats about to come out, and I'll be sober.

Goodnight for now.

Oh and thanks for that phone number, OPO. I'll give them a call.

PurpleOne, there's So much to go through since I last looked, but I just want to say to you about your friend. It seems to me that the reason the cracks in the friendship are starting to show is because you are starting to truly analyze yourself and what has gone on in the past. I don't know if its the right thing for you to distance yourself from this friend or not, but I think you may naturally start to build up more protection against her as time goes on.

I am going through something similar (ish) with a friend, though nothing as bad as what your friend did. Anyway, I've found this friend of mine speaks down to me a lot, as though she's cleverer than me, though all signs point to the fact that this isn't true. She dismisses things I say as though they are silly, and then months later will repeat the same thing I said as though it was her idea . SO many petty things and I am wondering whether it is me who is weird and intolerant and who has the problem and why can't I just manage to keep a friend like most people can. But the tension I feel when I'm with her makes me think that (yet) another friendship is about to come to a close.

purpleone- You need to get some support you really do. But I understand why it would be so difficult for you to try and get that support when your self esteem is on the floor and everytime you have tried to access some help it's turned against you.

Is there another Gp in the surgery you go to? I ask if there is another within the same surgery because I know that you get 'allocated' a gp practice these days and it would be difficult to go elsewhere.

Also there is a charity organisation which exists. Its called the Family contact centre. I think someone mentioned something similar?

If you google it then it brings up all the locations they operate in. They offer counselling for which you can offer a donation to cover.
You can choose a counsellor and you can see them weekly.

You need help to get through these emotions and that is no reflection on you.

I agree whole heartedly with regard to Social services. I wouldnt have any level of trust there either Im afraid.

Its a vicious circle you are in right now, but the drinking is compounding your bad feelings toward yourself.

Keep writing on here. Im listening. We all are.xx

Roseability, thank you so much, you have a reassuring way, which is something I really need. It is a relief when people say my children issues are normal. And yes, I think we do worry about every little thing we get wrong with our children more than 'normal' people do! We are so concerned not to be as bad as the ones we criticise so much - our own parents.

Thank you Bop and Rose for that thing about we WANT to be better parents and we WANT to improve our bonding with our children and we are TRYING to do this, unlike OUR parents! So we are ALREADY better than them! It is one of those things people say sometimes that seems to make a light switch on in my head and one of those thoughts which is going to really help me. I can see logically that nobody is going to get it right all the time, yet still expect myself to, but I can see that if we know we are not giving up on trying to do it better and we are always thinking when we get it wrong, what can I try to make it better next time, then we can feel happier with how we are doing. I'm always saying children learn by their mistakes so we shouldn't stay angry with them for too long when they are naughty. Maybe I should do the same for myself - not beat myself up so much, because parents learn by their mistakes as well - unless we don't bother thinking how shall I try doing it differently next time to make it better - like our parents.

PurpleOne, you have it SO much harder than me! And I've been whinging this morning about the fact that DH has to work today and I have to look after the DCs on my own! I feel I've been quite pathetic actually. I don't see how anyone can blame you for feeling like you are losing it when you have got teenage(?) daughters to cope with on your own and emotional problems due to a childhood anyone would say was bad! And you must be worn out from all the drinking as it depresses all parts of your body and mind even though it feels temporarily better while drinking. This family support thing people are talking about could help I think. I have a friend who is a secretary for one of these organisations and she said that some mothers just want someone friendly to be with them in the day so they don't feel alone and unsupported or they will do things like housework if the mother feels overwhelmed by all she has to do, or help with the children. I think having someone there to talk to and be with you could really help?

When I drink I feel absolutely shitty for days after and feel like someone else, someone a bit evil, not myself. I look at everything negatively and have lots of paranoia and anxiety and feel exhausted. I feel incapable of looking after my children. I feel it is not worth it for feeling a temporary release for an evening. I only feel worse about myself and everything in the days after than I did before drinking! Telling you just to stop drinking isn't going to work because it is too hard. Could you replace the addictive urge to drink with an alternative activity? Something that would suit you, that is another difficult thing, thinking of what that activitiy could be! Maybe going on an excercise bike with an ipod on playing loud energetic music? Typing all your thoughts into your computer in a frenzied and intense way without stopping or thinking about it much and then deleting it after? Getting addicted to something less damaging eg Facebook or online games? Or Playstation/Wii games? (I love the Wii boxing game I had a go of on someone else's Wii). You could get some anger and aggression out with a boxing game or a shooting aliens game or a martial arts game on a playstation type thing. That is quite addictive but I don't think it would be as damaging as alcohol? Maybe I'm being wrong encouraging you to take up something else addictive but I sometimes think that improving your lifestyle in a gradual way is less daunting so you are more likely to do it (rather than staying you must just stop doing anything addictive). Was it you who said you sometimes go to AA meetings? Could you go to more and get some human contact with people who understand your reasons behind drinking? Could you make some friends there?

I've had some thoughts which might help with my anxiety over parenting my children. The more anxious I am, the more irritable and angry and withdrawn from everybody I get, especially the children.

I go on at my kids too much, trying to explain things over and over again because I want them to stop crying/raging. I feel like I have to take on the responsibility of eliminating all bad feelings that they have. I think I'm being unhealthily overresponsible. I think this comes from my anxiety from my childhood when I wanted to make everyone happy so that they would be nice to me and also my anxiety that I don't want my children to go through the worst things that I went through. When they stop crying/raging I feel as though they have stopped feeling bad. If I've pressured them to stop crying/raging though, this might not be the case, they might just be repressing their feelings which I don't want. I only need to say the things that I feel will make them feel better once and cuddle them for a bit. When I've said it all and they are still crying/raging I need to stop trying. I should then, not ignore THEM, but ignore the crying, act like they aren't crying. Busy myself with what I'm doing and do a running commentary to them and think of funny and interesting things to say because these things might distract them from crying. That way they choose to stop crying rather than being pressured into it by me. Distracting yourself and not getting too embedded in the bad thoughts can make anyone feel better.

My parents never seemed to do much at all to comfort us when we felt bad. If I criticise them for this then I feel I should criticise myself as well if I fail to comfort my children when they are unhappy. I've wanted to feel reassured that I've done it properly by getting them to stop crying/raging as quickly as possible. I think I'm going too far though. If I've given them a cuddle and said some comforting and reassuring things and said things that might help make them feel better then I have done much more than what my parents did and I have let them know that I care. Trying to force them to stop expressing their unhappiness after that is a selfish thing that I do so that I won't feel guilty for failing to comfort them enough and is almost as bad as the way my parents repressed me! Maybe if we showed unhappiness it made our parents feel inadequate because they wanted to be able to say they were good parents who made their children happy all the time. They didn't have the emotional skills to help us to feel better so they disciplined us into not showing unhappiness instead. They were able to persuade themselves that if we didn't express anything bad, we didn't feel it! When we criticise them in the future this also gives them the defence that "well you never made it clear there was something wrong, how were we to know!" They can also say "Well you hardly ever cried or had a tantrum and were very well behaved and everything seemed fine". We then look like we are being crazy.

One person can not stop another person ever feeling anything bad! When my children feel bad I can help them to cope with their bad feelings and they will then be better equipped to deal with their bad feelings when they grow up and haven't got me there all the time. I feel an urge to stop ANYTHING happening that will make them feel bad and protect them from EVERYTHING. I feel that I am so angry that my parents didn't protect me from some abnormally bad things, that if I criticise my parents then I should criticise myself as well if I fail to protect my children from anything. If I DID manage to stop anything happening that would upset them this would not be good for them though. Relatively small everyday bad things happen to normal people all the time and we need to have learnt how to cope with these things because nobody stops them all happening to you when you are an adult in the real world. If you stop all these things happening when your children are at home where they have got you to help teach them how to deal with it then when they leave home they will not have learnt how to cope with small bad things that happen. Also It is not possible to stop any little bad thing happening so if this is your aim then you will constantly feel as though you are failing. What is important is to recognise whether what has happened or is happening is an everyday normal sort of thing that happens to normal people all the time or if it is abnormally bad. If it is abnormally bad then I should do everything I can to stop it happening.

Another part of my anxiety is "must get everything done or something bad could happen, must feel I have done lots to prepare for what is coming to try to prevent anything bad happening and if I've left out anything I could have done then something bad is likely to happen". I think this comes from a feeling that nobody else was ever going to help me so I had to make sure I did it all for myself.

Another part is "must make sure I do not do anything which might make someone else angry", then I analyse what I've done or what I'm planning to do and worry and worry over whether any part of it might make someone angry.

The anxiety makes me feel very tired. I imagine someone without this much anxiety finding the same day I've had much easier than me if they lived it. DH often can't seem to understand why I'm so worn out by a day that looks normal to him. When I'm tired I also don't treat the DCs and DH so well.

AN- I am really struggling with ds atm. I know he triggers deep seated leftover feelings from my childhood too. He is very demanding (probably normal 4yr old behaviour) but it reminds me of not being able to get anything right for my mother, or to never be able to do 'enough' to win her approval.

I recognise this and yet knowing this doesnt seem to alter anything.

Unfortunately I am currently being triggerd the same way by my boss at work, so this probably compounds everything and increases my sensitivity to it and weakens my ability to stay calm and patient with ds.

The problem is that I cant make up my mind wether I am spoiling him or being too hard on him. I want to set boundaries and he desperately needs me to. At the same time I can feel excasperated by him. He continually asks for things and moves quickly from one need to the next and whatever I do for him is never enough. If I say 'no' to something he melts into tears and/OR continues to badger me until I either give in or flare up a la 'Donkey' in Shrek.

Have I tried too hard to spare him from disappointment?

Have I, am I spoiling him?

I want so badly for him not to feel the way I did as a child I think I go too far the other way. Continually monitoring his moods to see if he is ok, Happy enough, secure enough.
The weird thing is I dont feel like this with dd. Its almost as though I trust her to take care of her own emotions. I see her as more resilient in some way.

Im not sure why I differentiate either. My response to ds seems to be a constant source of worry, whereas with dd I feel more secure in our relationship.

Im almost afraid to ask, but is this lack of bonding between myself and ds? I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I love him. But the circumstances surrounding his birth and babyhood were so different to that of dd's. Could that have affected things?

And seemingly here I go again, anxiously checking on my relationsipo and interaction with ds. Its like Im petrified I will damage ds in some way.

AN - I definately suffer from anxiety (I am not too bad at the moment but it was really bad when my DS was born) and used to be on ADs for this. Even today my DH said that when we go to see friends/family I analyze every conversation and get paranoid I have offended people.

Your point about being very anxious about any expressions of unhappiness in your children struck a chord. Even before I was a mum, I couldn't bear any crisis or negative emotions. I would get irritable with people for being unhappy/stressed/worried etc. Not because I didn't feel sorry for them but because I couldn't bear any imperfection in my life. I am now realising that negative emotions are also part of being human and part of life. We can't all be happy all the time. Maybe it is good that our children experience and see negative emotions and learn to express/process them appropiately.

When you think about it, if our children never saw mummy sad or angry they would not grow up balanced. However it is also a balance in that we have to be mature and calm sometimes, when we need to protect our children. I have no doubt that toxic parents create this anxiety, so don't blame yourself.

I rarely got sympathy when I was upset and angry. Just told I was over sensitive and that I had a bad temper.

oops analyse not analyze!

I suffer terrible anxiety too but the worst thing is i don't even realise it sometimes. I know now that i was very anxious about something i was doing yesterday. I really wanted to do it (it involved meeting new people - always a very stressful thing for me) but because i really wanted to go to the event i didn't realise i was extremely anxious about going.

My anxiety manifests itself as anger/irritability/grumpiness, just like when i was a child. I realise now i must have been very anxious about lots of things as a child, but because i had nobody to talk to about my worries i would become very grumpy/angry/moody at home. I think i have such an ingrained habit of not recognising when i am anxious or even realising what i am anxious about that i am still finding it hard now.

After the event was over yesterday and i came home and today, i feel completely relaxed and back to 'normal' (for me anyway) and yet on Friday i was moody/angry and I had no idea why. I even came on MN and was quite agressive on one of the threads i was on and i knew i was behaving badly and out of character but i couldn't control myself and didn't even know why i being like that. I kept thinking i don't have pmt, why am i so irritable? It was anxiety about my group event on saturday but i had no idea. I suppose this is another big area in which i need to develop much more self awareness and insight.