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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Our 5th visit to the Stately Home

1000 replies

Nabster · 23/02/2009 10:59

Here we go again.

OP posts:
oneplusone · 25/03/2009 13:31

Bop, I've just read your post (23:16) and it's made me cry so much. I know it's not the done thing on MN but I wish I could give you a RL hug. Because it sounds as if you needed someone to hug you so much as a child and I know a hug now doesn't make up for what you went through as a child but it kind of eases the pain a little I hope.

And Pinkyminky, i feel so sad to hear what you went through as a little girl. The things your mother said to you would be hard for an adult to take never mind a little girl. I hope you listen and believe your therapist, none of it was your fault or due to anything you did/said. Your mother clearly has huge issues of her own and was using the nearest available defenceless person to take them out on ie you. Like my dad, she couldn't take her inner anger out on another adult as most adults just wouldn't stand for it and would 'fight' back, verbally at least, but us as children were powerless and so we were the perfect non-threatening targets for our parent's inner rage.

Also what you said in your post about your family now trying to contact your DH and possibly trying to get them to collude with them against you.....that is EXACTLY what my parents and sisters did, or tried to do, when i first cut them off. My mum would go to DH and give him some sort of sob story (about me and how i was treating her) and try and make him feel sorry for her and turn him against me. My dad tried to do the same, but he used threats and blackmail against DH, telling him if I carried out my intention to cut off my parents meaning they would not be able to see their grandchildren, it would be on DH's conscience and he would have to live with that for the rest of his life. When i met up once with my sisters soon after i had cut off my parents, DH was there and my middle sister in particular tried to criticise my behaviour to DH and tried to get him to see me from her point of view and turn against me.

Poor DH was bewildered by all of this and at that time he had no real awareness of just how badly i had been abused by my family; he knew we didn't really get on but he didn't know the full details. I remember he almost fell for my mother's sob story and i know he did feel a bit sorry for her, just as she intended. I of course felt very upset that he seemed to be taking my mother's side against me, but luckily he soon realised how he was being manipulated. He did stick up for me against my sisters and my dad though and it was honestly the first time in my life that i have felt that there was somebody on my side, somebody who believed in me and was willing to speak out on my behalf.

All this was around 2 years ago and I know now that DH would have no hesitation in standing up for me and speaking out on my behalf in my old family ever tried to turn him against me, he knows now the full story about my childhood and has seen the depths to which my old family would stoop to get what they want. They were willing to try and turn their son in law against their own child; that just shows how warped and twisted their minds are. That they see me as their 'enemy' and have to try and get everyone on their side against me. Now that i have been reminded of all these incidents i realise, once again, that cutting them off was the best decision I have probably made in my whole life.

oneplusone · 25/03/2009 13:38

purpleone, my dad only gets in touch when he wants something and he then tries to use emotional blackmail on me or tries to bribe me with money. Neither tactic have worked and they never will, i can see right through him.

Sorry if you have already mentioned this but are you seeing a therapist? Have you read any books about this subject? If not i would highly recommend that you do; seek out a good therapist who fully understand the long term issues childhood abuse raises and read a couple of the many books out there, eg Toxic Parents by Susan Forward and The Drama of the Gifted Child by Alice Miller.

Drinking is not a solution and I'm sure you know that. It is a painful process once you start examining and consciously looking at your past in detail but it is the only way to effectively exorcise the ghosts that lurk there. Is your DH aware of your childhood and supportive?

You know that everyone on this thread is here to help and support you every step of the way. x

toomanystuffedbears · 25/03/2009 13:43

PinkyMinxy-ages ago you wrote (it was 19 Mar my one year anniversary without contact from Middle Sister):
"Maybe what I fear most is that they won't even try to contact me if I stop contacting them. It would be the absolute confirmation that they never really loved me."

This has stuck with me because I am facing this too. I told my Middle Sister where to get off (so to speak) last March and she has not called me since. I called her on Christmas for a 10 min superficial chat-she was too busy in the kitchen to give me her attention. She still hasn't called me. So, yes-I get it-she doesn't love me and perhaps has never loved me. My existence was only for her use to degrade, diminish, ridicule, etc for her superiority complex (NPD).

I think she is using silence to punish me as a superior would punish a subordinate. She's like that.

I am not her door mat anymore-I made it very clear I would not tolerate being treated that way anymore, ever. Simple: she has moved on. That reveals the truth that that was the sum of my existence to her. Every day, week, month that goes by that she does not call is more clarity and validation for me.

It is sad. But not as sad as me pressing my self down-being invisible-insignificant-depressing my mental health for her joy ride.

I am much happier focusing on my immediate family-my dh and dc. The family of origin is very secondary now. My relationship with Middle Sister has expired. One expects family of origin relationships to last until death. But I think that should be considered on a case by case basis and there are definitely some for whom the expectation needs to be recalibrated.

oneplusone · 25/03/2009 13:44

And Bop, what you said about staying mute if a bully finds you and verbally attacks you, well I'm the same. I just can't seem to speak out for myself when somebody says something nasty to me. Like you have said, bullies seem less able to 'detect' me these days. I think it must be because my self confidence and self esteem have grown and i must give off a different 'aura' to that which i used to give off.

ActingNormal · 25/03/2009 14:11

PinkyMinxy, I don't normally cry about what I read on MN but I cried about the emotional abuse you described in your post. How can anybody do that to a child, I just can't understand. I'm not surprised you had to block it from your mind, all those hurtful things, constantly. No child deserves that, even if you had done something naughty, and it doesn't sound like you did. And you feel guilty! Your mum should be the one who feels unforgivably guilty!!!!!

I can see that you feel very scared to tell anyone what she was like! I think it is absolutely brilliant that you have managed to post it on here! Why should you keep it all inside to protect her! YOU need protecting and comforting. You have not done a bad thing by talking about her despite what you can imagine her saying to you. What you have done is a big thing and a start to accepting that what happened was very bad and that it happened to you and that you deserve to be able to talk about it and get some help in coming to terms with it.

If a good friend told you it had happened to them you would think they deserved help and comfort wouldn't you? Why would you deserve it less then anyone else? You are of equal importance to anyone else. You are starting to value your feelings and your self more by posting about it on here and that is a really good thing.

Sakura, I love your idea of visualising going to yourself as a young girl and giving her some comfort and reassurance. I will try it later.

BopTheAlien, it is also excellent that you have managed to post. Similarly to Pinky, you DESERVE the help in coming to terms with what happened. Please don't think other people deserve it more than you and that you should not post, you really need to and I think it will really help you. You will start developing the confidence that you are important enough to talk about your feelings. You do seem like you feel undeserving and less important than others. It is not true. I can really feel the 'aloneness' in you when I read your description of the thing that happened in the classroom. And although I get the impression this is lower down on the scale of other bad things that happened to you, that incident is probably in your mind because what happened that day symbolises the loneliness and sadness you felt during the rest of your childhood.

It seems that when people talk to you a certain way it really triggers the feelings from your past and your feelings are so strong that you are almost paralysed. You might feel you are overreacting to the present day thing but you are not being stupid, you are being triggered. Don't believe negative things people say about you. You believed them as a child because children listen to other people and don't have the knowledge to know that they might be talking rubbish. Now you are an adult you have the knowledge to know that what they are saying is not true. The feeling that it is true is a leftover habitual feeling from childhood. Try to override it with your adult logic.

You seem like you understand stuff about me and my brother. I feel relief when I feel like people know what I'm talking about.

ActingNormal · 25/03/2009 14:30

I'm feeling emotional today. I feel something strange on my children's birthdays (DS's birthday today) and on my own birthday.

He was opening his cards and I was feeling really grateful that people had sent him cards (even one he had from someone I dislike) and he had some to open and get excited and happy about. I was grateful that people had thought about him and cared that he exists. I get so scared about things like, what if nobody wants to come to my children's birthday parties. I feel stressed organising their parties every year. I feel such a responsibility to make my children feel special on those days and feel anxious about what if I fail to make them have a special day because to me it seems a massive thing.

It must be something to do with my feelings about being adopted? And about feeling that my existence was of no real consequence to anyone in the past? I felt ignored and unnoticed and dismissed. I'm not sure if I am being unfair to them and just attention seeking and wanted more. I always seem to have a 'wobble' on these days. After all my parents always remembered my birthdays and gave me presents and treated it as a special day. They did do some good things so how can I say that they are bad. On my children's birthdays I feel grateful that they did this, and grateful that they send my children a card. I feel like even if they were not very good parents maybe I should be thankful I've got someone in my life who will send cards to me and my children (even though I have other people that do and am not reliant on them or anything).

I'm so scared of loneliness and I feel really vulnerable on these days. I feel I should be happy for any acknowledgement of mine and my chidren's existence even if it is from people who have done bad things. I feel like clinging to any little bit of evidence that people think about me and feel something positive. I feel I should be grateful for anything I get and forget about anything bad they have done. I feel similarly at Christmas.

oneplusone · 25/03/2009 14:47

AN, i also have a 'wobble' on birthdays. But i am sure mine is due to the anxiety of not wanting to be upset and disappointed that people had forgotten or couldn't be bothered to make it a special day. That is what happened when i was a child, my parents never bothered and often i am sure forgot until the night before.

But your reasons seem different. I think it is good to be grateful that people remember you and your son but i don't think that means you should forget anything bad. The two things can exist side by side. I think a lot of adults who were abused, myself included, tend to think in an 'all or nothing' way. ie people are either all good or all bad. Logic tells us this is not the case but inside we seem unable to believe it.

I can understand you feeling lonely and vulnerable on these days. Lonely because we don't have the loving caring families that we will probably always long for deep down inside and on these days it is all the more noticeable what we are missing and vulnerable because on these days we are dependent on others to an extent to make the day special for us and those others can let us down so easily if they do not really care about us.

These are just my thoughts from how i have felt on these days, hope they help you a little.

Happy Birthday to your DS! Please give him a big kiss and cuddle from me! x

oneplusone · 25/03/2009 16:12

Just spoke to youngest sister. Don't know why i called her. There was no reason and it was obvious. After the usual asking after each other's kids there was nothing to talk about. I think i almost called as an experiment on myself to see how i would feel afterwards. Well, my heart was thumping for some reason and i felt nervous whilst i was talking to her but i didn't feel upset about anything afterwards.

I suppose i wanted to talk about middle sister and her pregnancy and all the going private madness. But when i mentioned middle sister youngest sister just said it was great news and that was that. I'm sure she hasn't been spending her time obsessing about the same things i have. But then she is totally wrapped up in her DH's family and gives us little or no thought i suspect. I have also worked out a possible reason why, in addition to the fact that we (her family of origin) are a bickering dysfunctional mess and her inlaws seem to have welcomed her lovingly into their family and treat her as one of their own. I am sure her and DH are receiving financial help from her PIL and so she probably feels obliged to put them first.

Anyway, the main thing from my pov is that i no longer feel it is because of something about me that she puts me second after her in laws.

roseability · 25/03/2009 16:27

Hi Oneplusone, do you get much support/love from your DH family?

oneplusone · 25/03/2009 17:06

roseability, i gets lots of love and support from DH. His family are also loving and supportive, but i do tend to keep them at arm's length because MIL is toxic.

roseability · 25/03/2009 20:47

I think it must be so hard when your mother and MIL are toxic. I am glad your DH is supportive, it is so therapeutic to have someone on your side. Although my DH didn't appreciate the extent of my family's toxicity when we first met, he does now and it is a relief to me. That it isn't just in my head.

PinkyMinxy · 25/03/2009 23:06

Thank you, everyone. I am feeling so tired at the moment.
So many of the things people have posted here resonate with my life.

I'm sorry I'm not posting much help. I'm so tired at the moment.

And I still have a visit from my sister to get through before the week is out.

smithfield · 25/03/2009 23:56

Pinkyminxy-Just wanted to say how sad I was reading your post. What a terrible, cruel individual your mother is. To bring such sadness into a childs life. It's unbearable for me to think about....so god knows what it must have been like to live through it.

She made you feel so wrong and bad from the inside out, because of HER actions.

I often think that isnt it likely that the only way our little minds can comprehend such behaviour from our parents is to believe it really is our fault.In that way we have some control, because we have the capacity to change ourselves.

As children we have to find some mechanism to avoid total 'annihilation'. A bit like a safety valve. I think the feeling of having 'no control', being at the mercy of somebody elses anger. Totally dependant on someone who should have your best interest at hearts is so utterly incomprehensibly frightening. Someone that can lift you from the floor with one hand and burn your arm with an iron in the other. And there is absolutely nothing you can do. You are utterly powerless. You cant even 'express' your fear or sadness at the time because the very person in whom you have all your trust invested in denies...DISMISSES 'ANY' emotion as valid.

So we grow up with this inbuilt survival strategy in place. Self blame and denial of our own emotions.

I know I still rage at DH, and it is my way of having some control. If Im angry at him that is something tangible something I can control. But that my anger is linked to this bottomless pit of hurt and anguish over my childhood, something I can never change....well even as an adult it's too much to bare.

smithfield · 26/03/2009 00:11

Purple one- Your not alone. I use food, shopping and internet to avoid my emotions.

Before I had my children I used men, alchohol, drugs.
I dread to think of the situations I got myself into at times.

Didn't want to write anything more than that because I know that's the last thing you would need but just to let you know I understand. I know all about the numbing, and dumbing down of emotions. Im a master of it.

Sakura · 26/03/2009 01:11

Yes, the visualisation of myself as a helpless little girl, who was just like any other little girl, kind of helped me to overcome the feelings of shame I felt at being an inadequate, stupid person who didn't deserve love (and the rest).

I don't know why or how it helped with the feelings of shame, (i.e the feeling that you were born bad) but it did help. I think I humanized myself and saw myself as a human, as an equal to any other little girl who lived down the street or wherever. My parents could never humanize me. THey dehumanized me and projected their self-hatred onto me and so I carried it around for them, making them feel better.

ANd the sad thing about that situation was, if any of us saw our daughter crying and hiccuping in despair on the bed, we would go to her and gently try to find out if we could make it right for her, or find out what the problem was.
But my mother knew damn well what the problem was because she had just delivered me a torrent of abuse, which means that she was actually the cause of my suffering. Which means that if she wasn't around, I wouldn't have been suffering in the first place. What a double-edged sword!

PurpleOne · 26/03/2009 02:04

oneplusone i don't have a DH, not even a partner or a relationship going. Although I have a copy of Toxic Parents. It is my bible for reference and comparison.

smithfield - internet is my whole addiction. i still use booze to block things out. if my dealer hadn't done a flunk on me, I'd still be using. Hell i know about the drugs thing. Smoked weed for years, but after I fled the DV, was still using the weed but snorting a bit of coke here and there. my mate told me he wasn't going to get me anymore as i was developing an unhealthy relationship with coke, mixed with beer and weed. i go to aa every so often. it helps. but what i need is a whole new outlook on life. one that doesnt involve beer. i'd also use men if i had a proper social life and had access to them if my exh wasn't such a dick with contact.

i dont have a therapist. ive never had counselling. god knows i need it, but very hard to get on nhs.
i was feeling really down about 18 months ago. bordering on suicidal, using white cider to get me through. doc ignored me. told him i was gonna jump in front of the nearest tube train...he never listened and gave me more anti d's to take home and swallow. i saw that little girl grappling wih the gin and the pills at 15, and no one was there for her, except me.

god i feel like shit.

i am very drunk tonight as i also caught a visualisation of that little girl sat on her bed. she was 15 years old and just taken an overdose, and the parents had rejected her and told her to 'fuck off and die'. heard the father yelling out to mother to 'leave her there to die, the stupid bitch'
i cuddled her. what more can i do? i cannot change it now.

oneplusone · 26/03/2009 10:54

Purpleone, I'm sorry, I didn't know you didn't have a partner. Not much time right now but your last paragraph (02.04) has made me cry. You poor poor child. I just wanted to say please keep posting on here and I will do my best to help you as much as I can. It upsets me to know how alone you seem to be. My DH hasn't always been totally supportive but he is still around and we seem to be coming out into the light at the end of the tunnel. It must be very hard for you to go through this alone. I just want you to know you're not alone, I want to help you. Please keep posting. x

ActingNormal · 26/03/2009 12:19

I'm so so sorry PurpleOne

I'm so shocked by what you wrote I'm almost speechless.

Could you see a different doctor as the one you saw sounds absolutely crap? Say "I WANT to be referred to a therapist and learn how to cope with my feelings without drugs of any kind".

My therapist has just done a preliminary session of explaining about EMDR which he is planning to do at the next session. I feel a bit of a fraud because much worse things have happened to other people who do EMDR. It sounds like it would be appropriate for you because it is for post traumatic stress and what you have been through sounds incredibly traumatic.

Sakura · 26/03/2009 14:09

Purpleone

I hope everything I say isn't going to sound trite.
I think posting on here can help you sort things out in your mind and also to see that you are in no way alone.
I am also addicted to the internet (it comes in waves). I was also drinking about 4 nights a week by the age of 16, at least two of those nights to oblivion. Had lots of dodgy sexual encounters with lots of dodgy men. I'm VERY lucky that I don't have AIDS today.
These things are clearly connected to our lack of self-respect in the sense that a nice, normal girl would never have got herself into these situations because she knows she deserves love and respect.

I remember waking up so so many times with a stinking thumping hangover and so sick until the following day and promising myself I'd never do it again, and then just doing it again as soon as the chance came up. I really really wanted to stop but couldn't.

What helped me I suppose was getting in a relationship with a man who didn't really drink. But first I had to shift the way I thought about living a life without alcohol.
Drinking and getting drunk was exhilerating, it helped me forget my life and the pain. The idea of not getting drunk seemed so boring and out of character. I couldn't imagine a life without alcohol.

ANother one that helped me stop was to see how it was affecting my looks! Vain, I know. But alcohol was wrecking my face and that was a huge motivator for me!!!

I'm pregnant now so don't drink, but I don't Need to drink as much since I started sorting out my childhood. I don't need to reach that state of black-out oblivion anymore. I sometimes think it would be nice to do it just for the hell of it, but then I remember the hangover and the rest and how it really isn't that enjoyable.

So I hope this is encouraging for you in the sense that there is a way out, and other people know where you're coming from.
I'm not sure if I was an alcoholic or not. Maybe I was in the sense that I couldn(t stop drinking at all, and that I drank to get drunk. My mother is def an alcoholic now. Her brain is pickled. Before I cut complete contact with her, in the odd phone call we had, she would repeat the same things about her boyfriend that she had told me 5 years earlier. She doesn't move forward. People who drink are stuck, because I think you are only really alive when you are sober.

PinkyMinxy · 26/03/2009 18:07

Purpleone I am so sorry. what you have told us is shocking.

Please see a different doctor and ask for a counselling referral. I didn't think I desrved any help but I am so glad I am getting it now. You do derserve a life. A friend of mine has PTSD and is now getting the correct help and it has helped him tremendously, esp. with his alcohol/drug use.

kittywise · 26/03/2009 18:30

pinky, just read your post, I felt like I had been torn open reading that.

I know that I have a place on this thread but i can't admit it. When I read all your stories it's often like reading my autobiography and I don't know what to do.

I have toxic parents, bought it ages ago but can't bring myself to open it.

I generally think of myself as worthless and disliked. I worry that my children are disliked. I worry about every tiny social interaction, looking for signs that I am not liked very much, just tolerated and of course I manage to find support for my theories at every turn.

Dp says i don't really like people, I don't know i think I'm just scared of rejection.

I blame myself for everything I know that.

I don't even know why I am posting here

ActingNormal · 26/03/2009 18:42

Keep posting Kitty, whatever happened to you has affected you badly enough to affect all your present day social interactions and you deserve help for that. It doesn't matter how bad what happened was, what position it is in on any sort of 'scale', it is still affecting YOU badly so what happened needs to be processed.

smithfield · 26/03/2009 20:09

purpleone-You're right, you cant change it but you can make inroads to believing that none of it was your fault.

I often wonder about my addictions. Am I punishing myself. Is it my low self esteem. Avoidance. Hunger for something to fill up the emptiness I feel inside.

For me ,I think its a combination of all of these things.

Do you think you are blocking your feelings or punishing yourself?

OR could you be trying to punish them?

At that point in your life when your father said those 'awful' 'disgusting' words. (Which by the way was the only way he could handle his own sense of failure as a father.
Do you think you set out to destroy yourself in order to punish them?

I think there is a pivotal point in the relationship between the child and the parent when the relationship is abusive where the child makes a decision.

She decides to let her parents off the hook by concluding they 'are' in fact as worthless as their parents actions and words have implied.
'Or' they feel a rage that knows no bounds but that rage has no safe outlet and so it's unleashed upon themselves. They set out to destroy themselves in order to punish the parent.

I know at points in my life I have thought, supposing I die, then they'll be sorry.

I used to have dreams where I would scream soundlessly at my mother, rage at her. I was always in our old house and there would always be lightening and floods. I know this was the only outlet at the time for my suppressed rage and anger at how they had treated me. Only it had never been safe to express this anger. I hid it.

But of course, as others have said it reared its head elsewhere later in life. My anger was my recklessness, my drinking, my binging, my abuse of myself.

All that anger that my body had contained, their anger, my anger, my siblings anger. All swelling up inside me. It's inevitable at some point you just want to hit self destruct.

Nabster · 26/03/2009 20:11

Just thinking outloud. Not really expecting anyone to read this. Have popped on here occasionally but not been able to read much at all or help full stop.

I nearly phoned my mum today. Not sure what made me think of it. Something I read on MN I guess.

Not in a great place atm. Hanging out on the mental health topics.

OP posts:
PurpleOne · 26/03/2009 23:05

Smithfield, everything you said in your post above rings true. So true.
It is a form of self punishment. The self fulfilling prophecy of people telling you 'your crap', so you may as well be 'crap'

It's really hard to put into words. My confidence is zero. When you've been used to insults and out downs for most of your life, it's a conditioned and inbuilt thing and I guess my addicitions are a form of self preservation IYSWIM? Protection from rejection and keeps the anger under control because there's nowhere to direct it in a healthy way. And self punishment becuase I don't deserve anything. Everything positive thats happened over the last few years, has been belittled, scowled at and I just don't DESERVE it. The the guilt sets in.

If anyone dare give me a compliment, I feel REALLY awkward and embarassed. I feel my face start to burn up.

Another example of my father. One summer 2 years ago, I decided to put on some glam clothes. Was having a really shit day and usually wear grots. My parents was here for a few days, and my mate came up to drop off something she borrowed. My mate said PO, you look wonderful today!!' My father overheard this and pretended to jiggle invisible breasts and said to my mate 'oh, she looks really fat and unflattering in that top' and my mate just looked aghast and .

I even lost my best mate because of the self preservation thing. Where I confided in her and took a lot of courage to tell her I'd been drinking White Lightning. She rang me up the following night and told me I was shit, and a shit mum and I didn't DESERVE my children.

I often wonder if my DB would have had the same treatment if he was here. He died before I was born. I often wonder if that's why my parents were so distant and uncaring. Because I was a preemie too, and they were scared of losing me, just like they did with him. I never found out about it until I was 32, yet I spent most of my teens growing up knowing there was something missing. The sixth sense in me knew I had a sibling.

There's lots of other things my parents have done, but not enough time to post it all.I wouldn't even know where to start.

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