can you get over violence in a marriage?

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That is all i'm wondering really. Dh and i have been violent to eachother in the past (most recently 1 yr ago). Usually started by me in response to something completely dreadful he's said to me - not that that excuses it. However I've been left with a permanent injury which is likely to have been caused by him 5 years ago. We are trying to make things work (there are many other issues and we're seeing a counsellor together) but I'm not sure i can ever feel close or want to be close to him again. I also soemtimes have to take medication to get to sleep if we have a row as he says such awful things and otherewiae i'd be awake all night thinking about his horrible words. I suffer from nightmares about him. I'm wondering if there is any point to continuing with the counselling and the marriage?

Sorry if you think I am being inappropriate. I dont intend to be mean or inappropriate but the similarities are overwhelming. I shall say no more about it.

what is it you want advice on?

Do you want to leave? or do you just want us to tell you it'll be ok in the end?

there has been violence. considerable violence if you have been left with a peremenant injury!
you state that although usually fine he can be verbally abusive until you are also violent.

this is clearly a destructive relationship and is unhealthy for all involved, particularly any children you have.

your options are simple

1. you stay and continue this cycle of hell

2. you stay but you both seek counselling and therapy for your anger issues and relationship difficulties.

3. you/he leaves. you split and make new lives for yourselves.

pick which one you are wanting advice on. at the moment we are advising you to leave and it doesn't seem to be filtering through.
we will save ourselves a whole heap of repeated posts if you can tell us which area of help you require

Definatley not number 1. We are trying to do number 2 but not sure it's worth it, so i guess i'm somewhere between no 2 and 3

You need to get out. SOme people are just toxic for one another, and your comments that you are afraid of him even though you blame yourself for lashing out, and that he constantly puts you down, ring Abuser alarm bells: some abusive men like to provoke their partners into lashing out because then they can pile on the guilt - 'no one else would put up with you, you're nuts, no one likes you...'

get out.

you can do number 2 counselling and therapy from a distance and a safe place if you really want to .

I wouldn't say he constantly puts me down so not sure he's actually abusive. He's just nasty when he's angry

and also blames me for his shouting when he's angry becuase he says i make him shout

TFC - if he is blaming you for his behaviour then you need to get out. You're not 'making' him shout, he's choosing to shout. oDoes he shout at other people? Bet he doesn't, because he knows other people will tell him to piss off or report him to his boss or whatever: men like this save their nasty behaviour for their partners. If he goes and gets some counselling then you might, in the future, be able to improve things, but be aware that couple-counselling doesn't work in abusive situations.

THis is not to say that every partner who gets angry and shouts sometimes is an abuser: most people sometimes lose their tempers. But nice people generally apologise afterwards.
It also depends what causes the anger: if it 'just happens to be' that every time you disagree with him, or don't do what he tells you to do, the rows start, then there's a problem. ONe of the ways to tell whether a partner is verging on abusive is to think about what triggers rows - if it's all of a pattern where the anger-displaying partner expects the other partner to give in all the time, obey, concede, put the angry partner's needs and wishes first then the relationship is unhealthy if not abusive. Partners care about each other, one is not more 'important' than the other, or the boss, or the owner of the other.

No never shouts at other people, quite the opposite, he avoids confrontation. EG,he won't even complain in a shop or restaurant.I remember the fist time we wen out for dinner after having ds, we went to quite an expensive place and the wine was warm I wanted to sent it back but he was quite definaite that we mustn't send it back because it would spoil the evening

Well, frankly if he hits you I think you ought to leave him rather than put up with it. And if you hit him, then I think he ought to leave you rather than put up with it. As solidgold says, some people are just not good for each other.

I am a little interested in how differently violence is viewed if perpetrated by a man or a woman though. On t'other thread people are saying that a man who even uses physical violence is inexcusable however provoked. On this thread the OP is excused when she did initiate physical violence, because he provoked her. It does seem a case of the man is always in the wrong. Personally, I think physical violence is inexcusable. And if a man is responsible for controlling himself, then so is a woman. If a woman is not, then neither is a man.

my x was physically agressive to me, as well as verbally abusive. There is NO problem I don't feel better equipped to face now that I have left him.

Mere poverty is a small price to pay for my peace of mind and independence and recovering self-esteem.

My children are happier too, because I'm happier.

Please can I turn this 'round and ask you why you are considering staying with this man? What is it about life with this man that you think is better than a life of independence? and the chance to properly get over what's happened to you?

I think you can't get over it while you're still with him. You're reconciling it all, rationalising it, but your deeper consciousness knows it's wrong, so how can you start to get over what's happened to you?

PS, I also attacked my x once, I went for his head and pulled his hair as hard as I could. But at that point I was almost crazy, from all his criticism abuse and bad tempers. I couldn't get through one day without being accused of being too fucking stupid to put a ready meal in the oven eg.

I shouldn't have done it, but it was a clear sign I needed to leave him before he finished me off and made me go completely mad.

Ok he is verbally abusive to you but you are violent towards him. If the situation were reversed and this was a man hitting you then people would be calling for his balls on a plate.

Clearly this is not a situation where he is the abuser and you are the victim - you too are to blame. As has been said on another thread here violence is never acceptable.

Clearly this relationship isn't doing either of you any good so I would get out. But clearly you have a violent personality and so I would seak counselling and anger management for yourself before entering into another relationship, otherwise it will only be a matter of time before your being violent again.

I do think that there is a certain type of bully/abusive partner who carries passive-agressiveness to a really nasty degree. THe aim of the verbal abuse, belittling and criticism is to madden the other person to the point that he/she lashes out physically, so that the bully can claim the moral highground and guilt-trip the other person into accepting further manipulation.
This is, obviously, not the case with all or even many violent partners, so tow things I would ask the OP to consider are:
Was lashing out your response to provocation before this relationship started ie have you always had a 'hot temper' or problems with impulse control?
When you disagree with your partner and he gets verbally abusive, does he usually, or ever back down before you lash out, or does he keep going until you lose control?

It's a relationship you'd be better off out of, just focus on that.

There are far too many women staying in relationshps that make them unhappy, because they are.... afraid to leave?? What are they afraid of? the chance to be happier, the chance to claw back some dignity and self-respect??

There's nothing to be afraid of honestly. ALL problems will seem less daunting when you're chanelling your energies into dealing with life, and not chanelling all your energy into just coping and staying sane. Believe me, I know. I can't believe now that I nearly didn't leave.

Thanks for all your replies. We saw the counsellor yesterday and i'm more confused than ever now Talked about the nightmares, medicating myself and she basically said that i need to try to remememebr that they were only dreams and they are about things that happened in the past, not things that have happended since i;ve been back.

Just supposing you won enough money to start again, without him, if you absolutely didn't need him would you leave?

Just trying to throw in another question that might help you see things more clearly.

It IS very hard. I read a book before I left my x called Too good to leave too bad to stay, and I still didn't know at the end of it! Well, I knew it was a bad relationship but I still felt paralysed to move!

Don't take your counsellor's word as gospel. She's not the messiah, I 'm sure if you and your partner went in there together you didn't really get the opportunity to say exactly how he makes you feel. You presented a somewhat distorted image to the counsellor I think.

How about a bit of counselling on your own, just to give you a bit more clarity and a bit mroe strength to follow through on whatever decision you make?

Solid, that is exactly what happened the day I attacked my x. I'd had HOURS and HOURS of verbal abuse. Being called a twat, a midget, too fucking thick to remember an instruction, I had all sorts of things thrown back in my face, like my Dad had been (v.briefly) in a psych hospital, and "so MADNESS must run in your family" every boss you've ever had sacked you (not true, was relocated once made redundant once),You failed your drivings test twice, you never stick at anything, blah blah blah blah, all because I'd dared to challenge him about the way he treated me and saw me. Clearly the way he spoke to me confirmed I was absolutely right, but then, when I finally lunged at him to pull his hair I was almost out of my mind crazy.

I'm not defending what I did, I wish I'd held on to a bit more control.

Get yourself out of this relationship,there is no other choice.
Your relationship is disfunctional and dangerous.Take steps to leave today.

sorry, but i firmly believe in what your subconscious is trying to tell you. you don't feel safe, you don't trust him hence you're having nightmares.

what is the feeling your nightmares leave you with the next day? fear? anger?

you can't sleep without medication. there's another very strong sign that he is not for you.

i honestly feel you have to go with what you really already know.

warthog - sadly i think you're probably right. The nightmares do make me feel both fear and angewr the next day. I don't always use medicationt o sleep, noramlly only if we've had a bad row and he's said horrible things. The thing is he can be lovely. It's a bit like someone said in an earlier post , too good to leave, but too bad to stay

"if he is blaming you for his behaviour then you need to get out. You're not 'making' him shout, he's choosing to shout."

well then surely it's exactly the same for her violence. his criticisms and provocsations are not making her "lash out" as some would say, she's choosing to lash out and it is plain and simple domestic violence and disgusting no matter what gender the perpetrator is.

fwiw i'd agree with all those who say this is a toxic relationship.any relationship which causes you the constant mental and emotional distress of nightmares and drives you to the point of medication can not be healthy for you.
focus on saving your own health ahead of anything else.

And rather than trying to determine exactly who is the most to blame, just remove yourself from the situation. Knowing who is most to blame won't resolve the situation anyway.

I had a horribly disturbing nightmare when I was still with my x. I dreamt I killed somebody. In the dream I was a janitor, dressed in blue overalls, and I was cleaning the platform of Dun Laoghaire station I stabbed a man in a suit in my dream. Then I ran away. In the dream I had 'got away with it' but I was wondering why I'd killed somebody and I felt so crushed by the guilt.

It was only a while later that I made sense of the dream, and what all the different things represented.

But your subconscious is trying to tell you something, and you are NOT LISTENING TO YOUR OWN VOICES< TO YOUR OWN REASON!!!

Remove yourself from this relationship and the nightmares will stop.

PS, I also had a dream that I was sinking to the bottom of the sea in a bell shaped submarine. The pressure eventually became more and more intolerable, and then I woke up in a sweat. I was drowing in my dream, drowning in real life too, and my dreams were telling me what I couldn't seem to face up to.

"I dreamt I killed somebody. In the dream I was a janitor, dressed in blue overalls, and I was cleaning the platform of Dun Laoghaire station I stabbed a man in a suit in my dream."

well that explains it, if it was in dun laoghaire then it was clearly self-defence and the man in the suit is probably more used to being referred to as "the defendant"

only joking to all those natives from dun l on the board, i'm only a couple of dart stops away from the scene of the crime.

Ha ha! I think the overalls and mop represented the drudgery my life had become. The overalls represented me losing my identity, and my ending a person's life actually represented the end of a mindset. My old mindset, where I'd deluded myself that I could live with the bed I'd made iyswim.

I have no idea why I dreamt I was in Dun Laoghaire for this particular murder. It was the last place I lived in Ireland before I lived with the x. I would have set the dream somewhere rough but I don't do rough my memory bank had nothing to draw on there.