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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I know he's in the wrong but am I allowed to feel sorry for him.

65 replies

OrmIrian · 12/01/2009 09:15

Friends are going through a bad patch in their marriage. No-one else knew why until just before Christmas. Turns out he had been having an affair for 6 months. She found out. Affair has been knocked on the head. We had a long chat about it all over New Year and she is 100% confident that it's all over. It's completely out of character for him, he's a real rock, a reliable decent family man. Everyone has been very shocked.

However I am beginning to start to feel sorry for the poor bugger . He is doing his best to pretend that all is well but he has told DH that he's really missing the OW. He knows he's done the right thing and doesn't regret it at all but he is still hurting. She takes every opportunity to have a dig at him and tells him off if he looks less than ecstatic about life. She even had a go at my DH for talking alone to him - as if she wants everyone on her side even though we are trying hard not to take sides.

I know she has the right to be angry, but doesn't he have the right to his emotions too. I can't say anything to her, I know that, but would it be OK to let him know that I feel for him too?. Is there anything I can say or do to help them? They are both my friends and it's all so bloody horrible and sad atm.

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Tortington · 12/01/2009 09:18

no, your really not.

he just shat on everything they ever had - its not just sex with an affair is it - there is an emotional investment there if it went on over a length of time, and as a wife you know that.

TotalChaos · 12/01/2009 09:18

I can see two sides to this one - if I was the wife I would be very upset and probably rather cross at any signs of pining over the other woman - equally though I think she's not being fair to restrict who/what he talks to about stuff. I suspect the wife is probably being so stroppy because she senses that her husband is pining after another woman. Might not be a bad idea for one or both of them to go off to counselling.

cornsilk · 12/01/2009 09:19

He sounds quite selfish. He's caused this situation.

OrmIrian · 12/01/2009 09:23

I did wonder about counselling.

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AliceTheCamelHasGotTheHump · 12/01/2009 09:26

Ahh, the poor lamb. He got found out and now he's sad.

themildmanneredjanitor · 12/01/2009 09:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OrmIrian · 12/01/2009 09:30

So the answer is for us to stop seeing then?

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cory · 12/01/2009 09:32

I think you may feel sorry for him privately,but you should be aware that if you voice these feelings to him or show them to anyone else, you are contributing to his wife's pain. I would leave well alone.

Be friends to both of them by all means, but do not voice any approval of what he did.

OrmIrian · 12/01/2009 09:37

I can't express approval cory as I don't approve. But fwiw I think he has now done the right thing. Bit late but there we are. I can see it from both sides I suppose as I care about them both.

Clearly I shall either have to keep away or just say nothing.

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MaddieMoonlighting · 12/01/2009 09:41

He has been a fuckwit. He chose to go sticking his body part into someone who was not his wife; contrary to asmusing sketches on Little Britain, you can't actually FALL in.. it was a choice he made. He ruined the trust and devastated the woman who loves him. Her hurt is at least, and almost certainly in excess of, the pain he is feeling now.

Don't feel sorry for him. Be there for him but don't show any of the "there there" sentiments you are misguidedly feeling. Save those for her, poor woman.

OrmIrian · 12/01/2009 09:46

""there there" sentiments"

Yes that's right maddie that's the long and the short of it

I don't want to take sides.

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abedelia · 12/01/2009 09:51

Poor lamb, he got caught and he misses the excitement of crapping on his family and his wife's trust. Believe me, it's like taking a toy away from a toddler and he is now having sulk about not being able to have his cake and eat it, and that he is actually having to face the consequences of being an absolute s**t. Sorry, but his wife will be feeling absolutely bloody awful for months to come. It doesn't all immediately right itself when they tell the OW to bugger off - have a look elsewhere and you'll see that the average time for the wife to start feeling vaguely like normal is around a year. Some of the other threads here will give you a glimpse into the lasting pain affairs cause.... Given that, I don't think he has any idea of what suffering is - and FFS he's not even feeling bad because of extreme guilt (in which case a bit of sympathy might be appropriate - if he'd realised what a twunt he'd been and now felt unbearably bad about the pain he'd caused then okay), but he's whining because he misses the OW. I'd tell him to grow up and have some respect for his family (unlike he did before ... (Sorry, not appreciating being in work this morning at all, so prbably unduly harsh, but...)

themildmanneredjanitor · 12/01/2009 09:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MaddieMoonlighting · 12/01/2009 09:53

Sorry Orm if that's not what you meant. I just don't feel he should be getting any of your sympathy. He DID this; to himself and to his wife. SHE will be feeling worse.

OrmIrian · 12/01/2009 09:57

Well what can I do then tmmj? Stay away? I think I will have to. I like them both and I can't help .

He isn't 'playing the sympathy card' with his friends, he took the opportunity to have a talk with a friend. Isn't that allowed?

FWIW he does feel guilty. And he knows how lucky he is to be still with his wife.

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themildmanneredjanitor · 12/01/2009 09:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OrmIrian · 12/01/2009 10:00

"you don't think it's a good idea for you to get involved."

That is the only thing I can do. But I'd be saying it 30 times a day.

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OrmIrian · 12/01/2009 10:02

Actually I think I'll invite her over here one evening when DH is out so we can drink wine, she can have a good rant/cry without him being there.

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themildmanneredjanitor · 12/01/2009 10:03

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themildmanneredjanitor · 12/01/2009 10:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

abedelia · 12/01/2009 10:06

Perhaps your DH should suggest that the bloke goes and stays with family or moves out for a bit until his feelings for the OW have gone. After all, it's hardly fair on his wife to have to see it - does he realise that? I'd repeat themildmanneredjanitor's post to him, which just about sums it up. Yes, his life is now tough, but he chose to make it that way. and his wife's is way tougher, believe me. He needs to throw his energy into making things better for her and concentrating on her, or she'll leave him anyway if she thinks his mind is elsewhere.

OrmIrian · 12/01/2009 10:06

Dh was friends with the husband first. Through football. Then I met him and his first wife (who died, they didn't get divorced because of an affair!). Then he met his current wife and DH and I were the witnesses at their wedding.

DH would stay in touch with him. I'd want to stay in touch with both if possible.

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hotbot · 12/01/2009 10:13

tbh i would keep out of it... be the same as you are to them but they need to sort it out togther. i would just do things together as the four of you

OptimistS · 12/01/2009 10:19

If I had to take sides, I'd definitely be on the side of the betrayed wife here. But, I don't think anything is that black and white. What about forgiveness? OrmIrian hasn't been betrayed herself by the husband. She is friends with both of them. And we don't know what their marriage is like. Their marriage may have had serious problems before this affair, and while he's taking the worst decision of having an affair instead of trying to fix things, if we knew his side of the story, we may understand more. It's possible that he's just a twat, but taking OrmIrian's character assessment of him at face value, he sounds like a basically decent guy who's made a huge, huge mistake (and I am not condoning his behaviour and underestimating the pain he has caused).

I think it's possible to be there for someone without ever condoning what they have done. If the husband is genuinely sorry for what he's done, then he's more likely to be able to take the long, hard road towards making everything right if he has some understanding and forgiveness from his support network. Understanding and sympathy is not the same thing as condoning his behaviour.

Abedelia says it's about a year before the betrayed party in a marriage tends to start getting over it. Sometimes it can take longer, I'm sure. Like custardo said, it's the emotional betrayal that cuts deepest in many cases, and it's far harder to get past that than knowing your OH had sex with someone else. He has to let his wife go through this process while accepting that he is the cause of all this pain and that he has to wait for her to be ready to move on at a point that suits her, not him. Absolutely. But imagine living like that. Feeling like shit for 12 months or more, and knowing that it's no one's fault but your own. That's not easy, and while it may be deserved, many people will just throw in the towel because it's easier to start again than to achieve forgiveness after a very long time of being told that everything is your fault. Guilt is one of the most destructive emotions around and if it's not addressed, it can lead to serious mental health issues. If he really wants to save his marriage, he has to be in a fit mental state to do that. It takes grit, determination, a lot of self awareness and huge comittment to make a marriage work after an affair and that requires the husband to have people he can talk to about his feelings. He's made an awful mistake but he's still a human being and should not be denied that.

I know I'm going against the grain here, and I stress that this is my opinion and therefore isn't necessarily the best course of action, but in OrmIrian's position, I would be there for both of them. I think it may actually help the wife if the husband has someone to talk to who reminds him why he has to go through the guilt/earning forgiveness stage and why it will be worth it in the long run.

My only point of caution is to watch what you say. Never say anything to the one party that you wouldn't be happy to have the other know about, otherwise you could end up losing both of them as friends. If you think that's likely, you might be better off staying away until the first ramifications have passed.

cory · 12/01/2009 10:22

I think you can still be friends, if you don't take sides.

I have recently had such an experience in my own family. The husband did behave very badly, but there were also years of very unpleasant, verging on abusive, treatment by his wife, so it wasn't really that clear cut.

I have tried to be there for both of them.

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