I know he's in the wrong but am I allowed to feel sorry for him.

[OrmIrian]

Friends are going through a bad patch in their marriage. No-one else knew why until just before Christmas. Turns out he had been having an affair for 6 months. She found out. Affair has been knocked on the head. We had a long chat about it all over New Year and she is 100% confident that it's all over. It's completely out of character for him, he's a real rock, a reliable decent family man. Everyone has been very shocked.

However I am beginning to start to feel sorry for the poor bugger . He is doing his best to pretend that all is well but he has told DH that he's really missing the OW. He knows he's done the right thing and doesn't regret it at all but he is still hurting. She takes every opportunity to have a dig at him and tells him off if he looks less than ecstatic about life. She even had a go at my DH for talking alone to him - as if she wants everyone on her side even though we are trying hard not to take sides.

I know she has the right to be angry, but doesn't he have the right to his emotions too. I can't say anything to her, I know that, but would it be OK to let him know that I feel for him too?. Is there anything I can say or do to help them? They are both my friends and it's all so bloody horrible and sad atm.

I don't think you can or should "take sides" but I think you can usefully listen to both sides in a non-judgemental way and offer sympathy for their hurt feelings.

Friend of ours had an affair last year. You know what - I did feel sorry for him at first. He was definitely not the trouser-wearer in his relationship and I could see how it had happened. Although I 100% blame him for being a doormat and not standing up for himself, and having an affair instead, and I think it was a stupid mistake, I was sorry for him because he obviously got swept along with it and was not thinking things through at all. I was ready to be forgiving about it all if he was really sorry, although my friend - the female half of the couple - was devastated.

However, my sympathy soon faded when he totally failed to act with due humility afterwards. The affair ended, but he didn't crawl, he didn't have his tail between his legs - he was primarily concerned with being sorry for himself and leaning extremely heavily on my DP for lots of support and sympathy. It sounds as if this man is veering that way too and needs to be a bit less selfish. Yes be supportive, but don't encourage him to think he's the centre of the universe.

Also be prepared for it all to go tits up - that's what happened in this case, several months later - his partner felt she just couldn't go on trying to patch it up with him, and they're now splitting up. If your friend doesn't want that to happen, he needs to be reminded that he has caused terrible pain and he needs to grovel. Harsh but true.

I am going to go against the grain here.

yes he has been an idiot. And yes he has messed up.

But we all make mistakes. And for him to be missing the ow means that clearly it was far more than just a cheap shag.

And it is a little too simplistic to suggest that only the man is at fault if he has an affair - more often than not there are problems in the marriage already which cause this to happen.

Plus I think there's a huge double standard on mn - there is currently a poster who has been posting at great length about how much she is missing someone she had been on the verge of an affair with and she is getting a huge amount of sympathy on here. Why should that be different because this is a man?

so he cheated on his first wife too?

I suppose the difference is that he did have an affair rather than wanted to. But I guess some emotional link is there either way.

snowleopard - that does sound as if that is what is happening here. I hope he gets it sorted. DH told him more or less what most of the posters on here have said. He told him that although he was his best mate he had behaved like a complete dick and needed to get a grip. Which might have been right but I am such a sap I felt sorry for him.

No warthog he didn't.

1st wife cheated on him?

well, you're friends with both, they're trying to make a go of it so i personally think you have to support both of them. if they're trying to save their marriage, then having their friends take sides isn't really going to help.

Agree with don't take sides in this and do not under any circumstances let him know you feel sorry for him as this would validate his feelings for the OW IMO.

however

Unless he's a serial adulterer (and this does seem to be very out of character) people generally do not just go out and have affairs.

You shouldn't pity him because the right thing to do would have been to work through any problems, not have an affair with someone else.

My point is that whatever drove him to do it in the first place has not been dealt with. Their relationship is (obviously) worse than ever because of his actions and this is all on top of the original "thing".

They need to go to relate. He needs to demonstrate his love and commitment to her rather than just moping and she needs to listen to him.

She has bravely chosen to give him another chance, he needs to take it.

How about recommending something like this to them?

I agree with OptimistS and wannabe.

You can pity someone who has so spectacularly fucked up his family's life.

We are friends with a couple where the DW had an affair. We didn't take sides and offered non-judgemental advice where it was specifically requested. Other than that, we kept out of it and carried on as before. You have to leave yourself in the position where you can continue to be friends whatever the outcome.

If he is veering towards the self-pitying twattish kind of behaviour, it is helpful when some-one he respects can tell him so. If he loses his support network completely, it will be the worst for everyone.

There is absolutely no point her "taking him back" if she can't actually properly forgive him. She has to do this for her own self as well as for the relationship, or else she will become very very bitter.
It is a two way thing, they each bring half of the "trying again" vibe back to the relationship. They are BOTH going to have to work at it, and his "grovelling" as suggested above is not healthy or equal. There were obv problems before the affair. Her constantly digging at him is not showing forgiveness or moving forward. Yes he's been an arse, but I think you should be alloweed to feel (if not actually express to him ) a little sympathy over the nagging and griping, and the original problems.

Please help her see she needs to forgive him properly or let it poison her.

Ah wannabe I just hate this "there must be a reason for an affair" fuck it sure there is that doesnt mean you do it!
My marriage was in trouble I feely admit it - I tried to talk to H suggested a split etc etc etc - no he found it much much easier to shag a little tart and lie and cheat and lie some more for a year in fact ....funny how that wasnt my solution to our marriage problems - but thanks so much for maing cheated wives feel like somehow they were to blame

Orm, fwiw, I don't think you're sticking up for the guy.

There are obviously problems in this marriage (either caused by or preceding the affair) and you and your dh are trying to be good friends to them.

Very good idea to get the wife on her own and let her get it all out. And maybe you should suggest counselling to them. But, at the end of the day, they've got to fix this together. All you can do is be there for them.

I think you can have sympathy with him without condoning what he did. And I think you can talk to him and hear his side of while still saying 'suck it up, you created this situation, you made bad chices and have to live with the consequences'.

I have been in the wife's shoes and was so thankful that my female friends talked to him and supported US rather than just me. They didn't take sides but they did give DH some hefty doses of reality when he needed to hear it.

Affairs are a refuge from real life - a little bubble of make-believe away from the issues and problems of family/ work/ marriage. I don't think it helps to further isolate someone who has been cutting himself off already.

I don't think there is anything worng with saying that you are there to listen should he need it. SOmetimes you do need to talk things through with someone other than your other half - if only to put into words waht you want to say.

He will be going through a grieving process: not just for the other woman but also for the the relationship he used to have for his wife. He is going to need support in rebuilding that relationship.

But make sure you are also there for his wife - for her to scream and shout and let off steam if that is what she needs to do.

And make it clear to them both that yuo are not "taking sides": that you are just there to listen and provide advice if asked for.

I really think that unless either of them specifially asks for your help or advice you should say nothing at all about the affair to either of them. They need professional help, together and separately.

Sometimes playing the ministering angel just means that when the dust settles you are the inconvenient reminder of that horrible time after the affair, and you get dropped.

I don't think you are unreasonable in feeling a bit sorry for him but I do think you need to keep your feelings to yourself.

They need counselling - definitely. It doesn't sound to me as though their reconciliation is likely to work long term- so just bear in mind when you are saying anything to either of them that it may come back to bite you at some point

Remember that we don't know the other couple and it's not impossible that the wife is a cow. Or, at least, that there were problems in the marriage that both parties contributed to before the affair.
ALso, if a marriage is going to recover from an affair, there comes a time where the party who was cheated on has to stop playing the martyr and rubbing the other person's nose in it, or it's never going to get any better. It's particularly important not to insist that all your friends and family take sides and join in with public humiliation and ongoing punishment of the other person. For one thing, it won't take long before at least half of them start wondering if you were this self-obsessed and unreasonable and demanding before the affair.
My advice to the OP would be, confine yourself to neutral sympathetic comments about it being a 'sad situation' and change the subject.

I would also make the point that it's all very recent. The wife's behaviour is criticised in the OP but she will be devatated and humiliated at the moment. They need time to rebuild their relationship and support from friends, not judgement.

"People don't have affairs for no reason". Yes, but the reasons may be pathetic. Despite being very close, great kids, no problems at all my H had his affair because he simply fancied her and was upset we had moved several hundred miles. She was a link to his old life and the little fantasy world they created allowed him to shirk his responsibilities in helping his family build a new, better life (his words) - he accepts he behaved like a spoiled teenager, hence the fact I had him back. In no way was the problem mine, he was purely a massive idiot who took his family and me for granted. We have one local mate who listened to both of us separately without taking sides and who deserves a knighthood for his patience and inability to look bored! Just let them talk, tell him WHY the wife may be a bit narked with him looking sad (unless it's because he is feeling guilty) - he probably misses the OW as the relationship was a damn sight less hard than trying to repair such damage and hurt. However, if your H can make him see why the OW isn't perfect it may help... try and get him to talk about that so he can be reminded of why he is fighting for his family. The crap will pass....

this is a tricky one
people are very quick to judge
and after all nobody really knows what goes on within a marriage
i would just point out that you're not taking sides
you have a right to listen to and be there for each of your friends if that is what you wish to do

Thanks everyone.

Never having been in the situation I guess I can't really know (can guess perhaps) exactly how she feels. It's hard to see a rational open-hearted woman descend to the level of a suspicious angry wounded one. I brought this up now because last night they came over to pick something up. In a hurry so she didn't come in just waited in the car. WHile DH was finding it for him, I popped out to speak to her and she started asking me what he had been saying to us. The answer was hello and not much else.

I guess it will take time. We just have to be there when we are needed. Worst of all there are several children from previous relationships, no shared children, and I worry it will affect them too.

I am sure it will affect children - as it will affect friends too.

What you need to do is try and get the h to see the ow in a bad light too.
Tell him would he really want a woman who could willing allow a man to hurt his wife and family.

When my h had an affair he too felt sorry for himself for a while (but it wasnt really over at the time), it was only later he realised just what a twunt he had been and then all feelings for ow disappeared altogether.

yeah it really will affect the kids. Mac = hey btw, but seriously stop taking this so personally. NOONE was suggesting it was the womans fault but it is true that sometimes its not all the mans fault. Tsk. P.S hope your well lovey and doing great!!

OP you need to stay out of it. If i am right you said she only just found out about it. OUCHHHHHH. What and she cant be angry. How would you feel if your other half moped about for another woman, when you were good enough to stay with him. Blimey Id be mental, ripping his na nas off and pinning them to a stake outside her house with a note saying "here, enjoy". So i think its fair really. That said it is true that a mneer who has an affair gets much better treatment then a man who does so i will not be bxxxxxk stringing myself and tbh neither can you. Noone, not you, not anyone, knows what goes on behind closed doors. He could be a total sxxt. He could be a battered husband. You just dont know. Give her support, but i agree with the poster who says if he is missing ow so much thta he is showing it in front of the woman he married and betrayed, regardless of any excuse, maybe leaving for a while is a good idea.

Hi prettyfly am struggling on here - hard not to take it personally am afraid you know me - you doing ok hon??