Controlling parents. Long Sorry.

[Wigglesworth]

I am at my wits end! I am 28 married and I have a 4 month old DS and my parents are trying to control my life, I am so stressed and it keeps me awake at night. They see us at least once a week but seemingly this is not enough, I am made to feel guilty they say things like "oh well I don't know when we will see you again" in a ho hum tone of voice. I feel obliged to go round there or invite them here, but when I do see them my Mum constantly interferes and asks me questions which I answer but then she disagrees with me all the time.
I think my Mum thought I wouldn't be able to cope with being a Mum and would be calling on her all the time, which I haven't and TBH would be my worst nightmare. I think she is secretley bitter about it too, my Dad remarked on what a happy baby DS is now (was a screamy nightmare at first!) and how I am doing a good job. All my Mum could say is "well it helps when you have an "easy baby"." He is not "easy" at all.
They are constantly asking me when will they see me and when I give them an answer they don't like their tone makes me feel guilty. I want to have a life and I feel like I am always having to make excuses for not seeing them. Sometimes I just can't be arsed with them.
They also just assume that when I go back to work that my Mum will be having DS, and not bothered to ask me about it. My Mum says things like "oh you won't want to leave him will you, don't worry I will bring him to see in your lunch hour!" It just seems like she can't wait to get me out of the way. He is actually booked into nursery for 3 days a week and I was going to ask her if she can look after him for 1 day a week. I am now starting to think that I don't want her to look after him at all and I think I am just doing the one day a week with her to keep her happy. Although I know this won't be enough for her cos she will want to look after him full time.
I just don't know where to start dealing with all this. I don't want to hurt or offend them and if I talk to them I know I will just break down. They don't understand how much this hurts me and I feel like I don't want to be around them cos they treat me like a child all the time. HELP!!

She has just phoned me and I ignored the phone cos she will be pestering to see me, well not so much me but DS. I have already organised to go and see her on Thurs afternoon as my Nan is visiting. ARGGGG.

I do sympathize- you just need to grow a thicker skin though! You aren't cutting them out, but I think you are right to keep them at arms length if they wind you up. The three days at nursery sounds like a good idea, as full time with your mum sounds like you would be pulling your hair out! If you can take a step back from feeling sensitive when they grumble, one day with her is a good compromise I reckon. To paraphrase Eleanor Roosevelt: "Nobody can make you feel guilty without your consent"!

Good luck x

Hi Wigglesworth,

Would initially suggest you read "If you had Controlling Parents" written by Dan Neuharth.
My guess is as well they've always been like this and they won't change their ways for you or anyone else. This does not at all excuse what they've done as such behaviour is highly damaging. I would also suggest you read "Toxic Parents" written by Susan Forward as there is a chapter in there about controlling parents.

I would also suggest you post this message of yours also on the "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these pages. There are women on there who have very similar experiences with regards to controlling parents.

Its interesting to read that you don't want to hurt them; that sounds to me like your feelings somehowdon't matter due likely to you being conditioned by them over the years. However, they are the ones doing all the hurting to you. Your feelings DO matter.

Talking to such people though to make them see reason is a non starter; if they were capable of being reasonable to start with in an emotional sense you would not be having these problems anyway.

What does your husband think of them?.

Nearly all controlling parents embody one or more of the eight "styles" of controlling parenting. These styles provide a "You Are Here" point on the map of unhealthy control. Identifying your parents? styles can help you make sense of what didn?t jibe in your family. Remember the series of lenses an eye doctor alternates before your eyes until you find ones that enable you to see most clearly? Recognizing your parents? styles offers the right lens that brings into focus the underlying values and themes with which you were raised. The more clearly you view your family?s themes, the more readily you can become your own person. You may find elements of one or more of these styles present in either or both of your parents:

Smothering Terrified of feeling alone, Smothering parents emotionally engulf their children. Their overbearing presence discourages independence and cultivates a tyranny of repetition in their children?s identities, thoughts and feelings.

Depriving Convinced they will never get enough of what they need, Depriving parents withhold attention and encouragement from their children. They love conditionally, giving affection when a child pleases them, withdrawing it when displeased.

Perfectionistic Paranoid about flaws, Perfectionistic parents drive their children to be the best and the brightest. These parents fixate on order, prestige, power and/or perfect appearances.

Cultlike Distressed by uncertainty, Cultlike parents have to be "in the know," and often gravitate to military, religious, social or corporate institutions or philosophies where they can feel special and certain. They raise their children according to rigid rules and roles.

Chaotic Caught up in an internal cyclone of instability and confusion, Chaotic parents tend toward mercurial moods, radically inconsistent discipline, and bewildering communication.

Using Determined never to lose or feel one-down, Using parents emotionally feed off their children. Hypersensitive and self-centered, Using parents see others? gains as their loss, and consequently belittle their children.

Abusing Perched atop a volcano of resentment, Abusing parents verbally or emotionally bully ? or physically or sexually abuse ? their children. When they?re enraged, Abusing parents view their children as threats and treat them accordingly.

Childlike Feeling incapable or needy, Childlike parents offer their children little protection. Childlike parents, woefully uncomfortable with themselves, encourage their children to take care of them, thereby controlling through role-reversal.

Do not leave your son with them even for one day a week. This will not be enough for them and will demand more access. It sounds also liek your Mum is the driving force behind their relationship and your Dad is the bystander (who has gone along with her for a quiet life and self preservation).

Never forget you are your own person and you have a choice. Your feelings are important, your feelings do matter.

Guilt too is a useless emotion.

HTH a bit

Attila

Get an answering machine and or call identity. Start screening your calls.

Okay, you have a mother who is never satisfied. This is common. I have one too! .

My main tip - which I give you knowing that if you manage this successfully 50% of the time you will be doing extremely well - is work out for yourself (with DH) what you think is acceptable in terms of her involvement and access to your life. Be fair - acceptable doesn't necessarily mean what you want in the perfect world, but what you think gives her good access etc (assuming that's what you think is appropriate).

Then. Tell your mum this. Make it clear. And then stick to it. She will complain, she will act as if you'd never told her how it was going to be etc. But, keep at the front of your mind the fact that this response from her is her being unreasonable, not you. And that it is her issue, not yours.

In terms of childcare, again, simply tell her what you and DH have decided, and then ask her if she is willing to look after DD one day a week. Tell her that you do/don't need her to come and bring dd to you at work for a visit. Tell her that you think it's a great opportunity for DD to have some special time with her alone.

Keep all of these messages at the forefront of your mind at all times and reassure yourself with the fact that you are being consistent and polite with her. Anything else, is her issue. In many ways, parents like this do need to be treated like children - they will push the boundaries and it is your job to consistently maintain those boundaries.

I think it a new baby changes the dynamic in any family; you all have to get used to your new roles-this includes your parents.
Of course you don't want to hurt them, they are your parents. I think you should gently explain what you want and stick to your guns.
Is your mum lonely?

oh for heavens sake. Her mum is a bit bossy, yes, and probably a tad thoughtless, and wants to see her little grandson a lot as she is clearly absolutely and completely besotted with him. But none of us are perfect people or perfect parents and being slightly overbearing does not make her 'toxic' and make the OP a helpless victim. Blinglovin offers good, sensible advice. Except I think we need to recognise that most grandparents - especially maternal grandmothers - do really, really love and adore their grandchildren.
If your mum annoys you it's reasonable to see a bit less of her, but when you do go back to work, you won't be seeing her so much anyway.

Yes, it is NORMAL not to want to hurt your parents. It's not a sign that they are bad, awful people to 'make' you feel like that.

I think this particular dynamic between Wigglesworth and her parents has been unhealthy for many years. It is only now that Wigglesworth has had a child of her own does she realise that her parents are not the nice people she thought they were but are controlling of her to the nth degree. She has likely always realised that they are controlling but the need for them to control is certainly coming to the fore now.

These problems as well are often generational in nature; if they can act in a controlling manner to Wrigglesworth then they are certainly capable of being the same towards any grandchildren.

Attilla- Parents are people and no one is perfect. I imagine most parents have expressed at least one trait from your long list, esp at a time when they weren't feeling on top of their game.
I think you are being a bit ott

Attilla- How do you know they are not nice people?
A bit clingy and controlling, yes, but not terrible people as far as I can tell.
It's better for the OP to work things put than write them of as toxic.
Most parents just do their best ime

mabanana

I guess you've never seen controlling parents at first hand. These sentiments are often expressed by people who have no first hand knowledge thankfully of such people and how they operate.

No-one person or parent is perfect and we all make mistakes. However, there is a hell of a chasm between making mistakes that do no long term harm and systematic underlying of confidence that controlling parents do on their offspring. You are made to feel that nothing you do is ever good enough but you constantly seek approval from them all the same.

Attila, I think you often give absolutely brilliant advice. In this case though, I fear you maybe using a sledgehammer to crack a nut, and we have not as yet established how big a nut the OP's mother is

This thread seems to be taking off at a tangent, so sorry Wiggle... but I'm pleased people are challenging you Atilla.

I am shocked at the harshness of your posts on this thread about a family you dont know.

You say things like "talking to these people is a non starter" and encourage the op not to leave her son with them. I think you are way of the mark here.

You appear to have a very rigid view of family relationships as unhealthy based on cod psychology. I think people and relationships are more complex then that, and taking your advice in this instance could be quite destructive.

You cannot possibly completely write off these people on the basis of the OP!! It's madness.
I bloody hope none of my kids read this book. I'm not perfect, and hell, they might feel 'guilty' one day and it will obviously be all my fault.
Is it not possible to think that grandmothers can be besotted with their grandchildren?
I think it is just as possible (or more possible)that the OP may have a form of post natal depression and/or is worried about going back to work than that her parents are 'toxic'.
I think offering to bring the baby into work to see her at lunchtime is a kind offer, and sounds like the offer of someone who thinks the baby is the most magical creature in the world. Surely someone who was trying to control or cut out the OP wouldn't bother thinking of something like that?
Wrigglesworth - have you always had trouble sleeping, been so stressed and tearful? Is this quite a new state of affairs?

I hope I am wrong here but I have seen how emotionally awful controlling parents can be to their offspring. Talking to such people to make them see reason can indeed be a non starter as these people can be totally capable of being at all reasonable.

Anyone read that article in The Guardian on Saturday about a young man cutting himself off from his family completely after being given some advice on an internet forum?

Yup. I think this book sounds similarly poisonous, to be honest.

I have to agree with others - OP's parents could be as bad as Attila thinks, but maybe they're just insensitive, a little self absorbed and need to be reined in. I have many ishoos with my parents, my mum in particular, but that doesn't mean I think she needs to be cut out of my life completely.

That's not to say there aren't parents who ARE as bad as this, just that nothing in the OP's post suggests that. Maybe she'll come back and tell us more. But from her post, I'd say her parents need to understand some boundaries and she needs to feel she has some control, but her parents don't need to be beaten with every stick available.

yet you are coming over as controlling this whole thread attila!!!

Wigglesworth has posted about her mother before. I think there is a fair bit of history previous to this post.

Attila isn't being controlling. That's a bit rude Piratecat. Unless you were joking?
It sounds as if Attila has experience she can draw upon for the op.

Thanks Popple.

Piratecat - I hope you were joking as well.

Unfortunately I do have some experience in this area and Wigglesworth has indeed written about her Mother before. My replies are based on both todays's and previous writings re her Mother.

Books like Controlling Parents etc are NOT aimed at adults who when they were themselves children their parents genuinely tried their very best. We all make mistakes as parents and our children do not long term suffer emotional harm.

These books are aimed at those children now adults who have come through a childhood where emotional abuse was a feature of their day to day lives. These children were from dysfucntional families. It is extremely damaging for these people to be caught up in such an environment (it does affect decision making as an adult) and as such it should not be dismissed as OTT. Toxic parents do not take responsibility for their actions, nor admit any wrong doing and will be more than happy to put forward a laundry list of "shortcomings" against the person making any accusations.

At the very least Wigglesworth needs to set some clear boundaries with both her parents otherwise they will still try and take over. They still see her as a child who is "incapable", they do not see her as an adult who can make her own decisions.

Thanks everyone good advice. Atila is right to a certain extent, they have always been like this but it is only a real problem now because I have my own family, I guess I could avoid situations before.
In some ways its my own fault too I should have nipped this in the bud a long time ago but I just ignored it.
They are really loving and just want to help me but I don't think they see that they cross the fine line between help and interfering. They would drop everything to help me if I gave them the word, which is comforting to know but at the same time I love being independent and working things out for myself. They still worry about me all the time.
I like having my own space (as does DH). My Mum doesn't work, she used to care for my Nan but she has recently gone into a home so my Mum has a lot of time on her hands. I may have a touch of PND but it is largely due this situation, it occupies my mind a lot of the time.

Then all I can say is to reiterate what I said before - her issues are not yours. If you know in your heart of hearts that you are being fair and doing the right thing, then do your best to harden your heart to her behaviour.

The last time I went home, for literally weeks before we went to visit, I told friends and DP what I would consider acceptable time with my Mum (far more than I wanted, but less than she would), I told her that clearly and coherently. And.. .lo and behold, she was entirely unable to hold the guilt over me. She tried a few times, but it rolled off me because I knew that I had done nothing wrong and i was prepared so didn't immediately respond by agreeing I was wrong.

On downside, she did get completely hysterical on another situation which I suspect was at least partly as a result of her (unexpressed) frustration at me not responding to her usual guilt trips. But that's another story!

Good luck.

Wrigglesworth, I'm with Attila on this one...and of course what choose to do is your decision. I think its a case of do not underestimate the effect your parents are having on you. Sleepless nights are not good or the stress and your baby is still only young...I thought I was over worst of newborn stuff at 4 mths and the hormones were still flying with me. I know its really hard but you need to discuss with dh your feelings and like Blinglovin sensibly suggests, agree what is reasonable contact with your parents. This is YOUR child and YOUR responsibility. Your parents are going to have to learn, the hard way, that you are an adult. They are not going to like it, so be prepared for their over the top reaction to you being an adult...

BTW I do think you are right to have ds going to a nursery full time. I suspect they will respect your wishes a bit more...and offer less critisisms.

And remember (and you will have seen me say this as I've seen your other posts too ) FOG Fear Obligation Guilt is how your mother operates. Don't fall in with it! Its how she controls you!