This is a desperate cry for help

[LearningCurve]

Please help. I have wanted to post something for a long time and have been too scared to, but I have to do something. I feel utterly alone, have nobody to talk to about this.

My marriage is in the worst place a marriage could possibly be. I have been with DH for 7 years, married for 3, and after a blissful, happy honeymoon period of about 9 months, things started to change and they have got progressively worse (with several more happy times scattered thinly here and there).

My husband is very moody and very defensive.He gets annoyed and sulks if I am upset about something. He ignores me all the time. We have been to two different couples counselors, and with the 2nd one, we had quite a breakthrough. She was the person who pointed out that DH had quite an issue with defensiveness. I just hadn't seen it before and in a way, her bringing it to my attention has made things unbearable as I can clearly see that this is a HUGE cause of most of our upsets.

Over the years we have had long, hideous upsets. I have done things I am not proud of - I have shouted and screamed, I have pummelled his chest with my fists, I have gouged my own arms in desparation. I am weeping as I write this as it sounds so hideous, but I truly believe that my behavious has ALWAY followed him being moody and defensive, not being there when I need him, not responding when I am upset. He has a very stern, expressionless face when I am upset.

We have a darling 2 year old DS and I am 26 weeks pregnant. We recently moved for DS new job, so I am in a new country, thousands miles from home, no friends, no support network. I can't bear to tell my family the truth about our relationship and I don't know who to turn to in my group of friends - I am ashamed to admit things and don't want their view of me/us to change.

Reading another thread just now on MN, someone made a joke about 'passive-agressive' behaviour. I have heard the phrase but didn't know what it really meant, so looked it up. I read several pages of descriptions of this behaviour and was shocked to find that every single sentence was describing my husband.

I love him, which is the answer to 'WHy do I stay with him?'. We have a child together, and another one on the way so I cannot see an option of leaving, esp when we have just moved. I just want to be in a marriage where I feel supported and loved. We rarely have sex, we argue most days, I end up sobbing hysterically behind a locked bathroom door.

I am torturing myself with guilt about what damage my being so upset so much of the time could be doing to my unborn baby.

Since we moved here, a very dear family member has passed away, and a lump has been found in my breast during an exam with the midwife, so I am now waiting 2 weeks to have a scan and mammogram to see what that is.

I am so scared, and wish my husband could be there for me, but he seems to be oblivious to how his behavious makes me feel.

I stood on a busy bridge over a freeway our first week over here and thought what it would be like to jump. I DO NOT WANT TO HARM myself - I am just saying this to point out how unhappy I feel. It is the worst thing in the world to know that you are in such depths of despair and can do nothing about it. I have to be here for my DC. I want to be here for my DH, I want to be a good, loving wife, but I feel I get nothing from him most of the time.

I feel ignored on a daily basis. The passive aggressive thing has really freaked me out.

I dont know what to do - please if anyone can offer me any words of comfort or advice. I am going to find a counselor here to go and speak to, maybe on my own, maybe that would be best for now.

I feel sick now at the thought of posting this, and this is probably so long that noone will be bothered to read it.

It sounds stupid to say this, but apart from huge problems with DH in our marriage, we have a happy life, nice friends, nice families on both side, we are comfy financially, I feel blessed in so many ways, which makes it all the more difficult as I feel guilty for feeling that things are so hideous when other people have so many problems that are worse to deal with than relationship issues.

I have just read back what I have written and can see that it doesnt make much sense, that a lot of you might read this and think what does he do that is so bad? This is why I am hoping that someone reading this might have had experience of living with someone who is moody and defensive or passive aggressive. Its not so bad, looking at one isolated incident, but when you are on the receiving end of this kind of behaviour again and again, day after day, don't feel your DH is there for you when you have tears streaming down your face, just looks moody and gets annoyed, it is pretty soul destroying. Oh, I am just making this worse, the more I write so I will stop now and hope someone can make sense of it.

{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}}

I have no advice but couldn't not post, hopefully someone who know what they are talking about will be along in a minute to help you.

LearningCurve, what you have written makes a lot of sense. I am so for you. I think you have an extraordinary amount of stresses going on in your life right now and think you are coping with it all admirably.

I don't have any experience with this so am hoping that someone sensible will come along in a minute but just wanted to say that the important thing at the moment is not to do anything foolish, to focus on your wonderful DC and the baby that is coming and to get help from whereever you can. Counselling sounds like an excellent idea and on your one would be a great starting point so you can work out what YOU want first.

are you saying your husband does not care for you- or show that he cares?

What do you argue over?

No matter how much YOU love him, if he doesn't show you love and affection, and you have been for counselling, then you might have to accept that you might split up.

If I can say so, you do sound very emotional and dramatic. Is it possible that your husband shuts his ears and ignores you because your behaviour is hard for him to deal with? Some men cannot cope with emotional outbursts.

Can you be more specific about the arguments etc etc-it is very hard to offer you any advice as what you describe is very vague.

You cannot change someone's behavior. YOu can only ask them to change it, or cchange your response to it.

You do need to see a counselor, and so does he - whether he will or not is a different matter.

for now, I would write him off as a source of stress until you have sorted your breats scare and had your baby. Ignore sulks, strops, and if his face is grumpy, just don't look at him. factor him out of your life until you feel able to deal with him or until he changes the way he behaves towards you. Find a counceller, join a sure start group for support with your toddler and new baby, find a friend who will help you and cry on her shoulder, and regroup your strength.

I was in almost an identical situation. I am now out of it, a single parent instead of a suicidally depressed one, and I know I will never allow myself to live with someone who ignores me again. I would rather be hit than ignored, that's how horrible being ignored is. People need to have their feelings acknowledged.

Oh bless you love, you sound so unhappy. I'm afraid I cannot offer any constructive advice at all, you sound like you've tried so hard.
Do you love him?
Does he love you?
that he isn't totally concerened and gutted over lump in your breast (I sincerely hope that turns out to be nothing). I'd be concerned that if DP didn't react to that then he didn't care for me at all.

I hope someone more helpful than me comes along soon, but you sound so alone, I wanted to respond. I am sorry. I'm glad you are seeking help for yourself xx

I think you may be depressed, therefore the couselling will be a good plan, alone to start and then when you are sure you are right, together to make the two of you right. pregnancy exacerbates problems IME, as does a newborn baby.

I'm sorry you are not happy and totally relate to the wanting to work it all out for the children. There will probably be posts of 'leave him' but IMO you have to give your relationship with the father of your children ever possibly shot before giving up on it.

Arguing every day can't continue. Equally I think it unlikely that all this is just down to DH. I think you are stuck in a rut and I wish you all the luck to try and improve your married life. xx

could you ask him to stay else where for time being maybe point out the issues of your relationship and ask for space could be enough to make him re evaluate his behaviour

but laso if you have tried counsilling and nothing is changing you need to ask yourself when is enough how much longer do you try with niothing back

you need to be strong for you and dc and if its not working you needd to be apart for a while and see if you can work on things

big hugs and good luck

I am not in a position to offer any experienced advice but I just know someone will....

I think that maybe the first step is seeing a counsellor to maybe get advice/support with how to ddeal with a passive-aggressive.
Longer term,it should of course be he who has the counselling to ammend his behaviour.

You are not alone,you say you have lovely friends and family-you also have a wealth of advice here.

Good luck with the lump-fingers crossed it is nothing to worry about.

I agree with flossish, I think you may be depressed.
I totally understand how you feel about being away from home. 3 years ago, I gave up a job I loved so much and moved 3,000 miles away from all my family and friends to live in the Middle East where my DH is working. At first, I was so very unhappy and it took me ages to settle in. To be honest, it is probably only in the last year or so I have finally found my place out here. I found it hard to make new friends at first as I was very mindful of the fact that we lived on a company owned compound and therefore all the women here were the wives of my husbands colleagues. In the real world, you choose your own friends but in this community, it is all a bit forced on you, basically its take it or leave it. As a very private person, I found this difficult. It will be hard for you. Your DH will have all his friends from work and you are on your own with your DS so it will take a bit of time. Have you tried to find out if there are any playgroups/nurserys where you are? My DD is now 2 and thinking about it, I started to make 'proper' friends here once she started nursery last year. Try looking on the 'living overseas' thread and if needs be, post your own seeking people wherever you are now. Good luck x

Thanks for so many quick responses.

Honest friend, you are right, I AM emotional and dramatic, but this is part of what is so upsetting.

I wasn't, years ago, when this started brewing, but slowly over time, as I am exposed to the same hurt again and again, my reaction has become more intense. You are not going to be so bothered about someone ignoring you for the first time ever, as you are when they do it for the 7th time that day, for the 4th day that week which has happened for months and months up to that point.

I find it so hard to put into words what happens, but here is an example:

He didn't ring me at all during the day, the first week we moved here. I was settling my son into a new nursery (feeling very guilty about putting him in so soon after the move),which was very upsetting for me, leaving him in a new environment, dealing with him crying as I left etc, I was reeling from the news of the family death back home. In the evening, I would be upset from the fact that he didnt bother to call me to check in, see how I'm doing in an unfamiliar new city, how our DS was at nursery. When I told him how upset this had made me, he immediately gets moody and defensive, then I get upset that this is his response to what I have told him, then he gets more withdrawn, then I can't cope with his cold, detatched response to my tears and I go and lock myself in the bathroom.

Yes, I know. Reading it back I know how it sounds. Pathetic. I should be able to brush it off and not bother that he doesn't care when he's upset me.

I just find it really hard that he never ever responds with compassion when I am crying and sad about something. He puts furniture, or lengths of rooms between us, and stands over me, awkwardly, never using eye contact, when I just want him to take me in his arms and tell me it's OK, and he's sorry for not calling me (to use my example scenario above)

Also, Flossish and Mumoverseas, regarding the depression thing, this is something I have thought about a lot, what if I am depressed and this is what is causing most of our misery.

However, I feel that even if I have an abnormal balance of chemicals in my brain, and end up taking pills to sort it, it is not going to make me not mind being ignored and living with someone who is defensive all the time. And the bottom line is, I dont WANT to live with someone who is defensive and moody, and ignores me, can't I hope for more?

I went to the doctor last year, with DH, and talked about what was going on, and she agreed that I probably was depressed - as a result of the situation - so pills would not help in the long run, dealing with the root of the problem would (DH sat with his expressionless face on beside me during this conversation)

Thanks so much, I'm glad I posted because hearing other people's views makes it not so bad as when it's just you agonising about it all in your head.

I just wish someone would read this who has experience of/advice on the passive aggressive issue and living with defensiveness.

I actually feel sorry for your DH too.

There are men, who because they have never been shown HOW to show love ( as a child) grow up not knowing how to react to someone's distress- yours.

Shouting at him and screaming at him will only make it 100 times worse, as this is behaviour he cannot cope with- isn't it?

If you want him to behave differently, YOU are going to have to change how you behave- by talking to him calmly and explaining how his behaviour is hurtful.

I think it is very easy to label someone passive-aggressive, when what they may be doing is showing a lack of empathy- almost autism- many psychologists believe that most men behave "autistically" compared with women.

He is possibly desperately sad too, but has never learned how to give love.

It IS possible that he has a mild form of the condition as his behaviour shows no empathy or emotional intelligence.

Does this sound possible to you?

I think the only answer is for you to TEACH him how to behave= so when he doesn't call you, or show love, tell him calmly and tell him WHAT you would like to have happpened- so that next time, he should know.

It might take years- but if he loves you and you him, it might be the answer.

Honest friend - this is why things are so desperate.

I have tried everything, I have tried calmly talking to him about how things make me feel - which do usually result in him agreeing and saying sorry, he won't do it in the future, but then within an hour or a day or whatever, he goes and does whatever it is we discussed, and supposedly resolved, again.

I have tried writing him emails, when I have calmed down, I have tried letters - I have tried all kind of ways to talk to him - being gentle, being positive, stressing the things he does that i like.

He always says sorry, he won't do it again, and then continues to behave in exactly the same way.

That is why i am despairing. I feel helpless. I would also like to point out that it is always me who is trying to 'solve' things. make suggestions, if you do this, I will do this, try to compromise, try to find a way through it. He promises he will do things practically on a daily basis, but never does the things he promises.

This probably gives you more insight into our issues, yes, I am quite sure he is desperately unhappy too.

Maybe, very sadly, you will have to accept that you are incompatible?
The only other suggestion is couple counselling, with a psychotherapist- have you tried counselling? If so, then maybe try again as they are all different.

I do feel for you- you have tried so hard.

Can you say why it all changed? if you had 9 months of great marriage, then why did it go wrong? finding the answer to that might help.

My heart goes out to you LearningCurve. I am also in a very similar situation and we have been married 21 yrs now. I get no affection, no emotional support and brief acknowledgement. I long to feel worthy and important but it just doesn't happen. I can't give you any advice and I sorely wish I could. I am now so distraught and desperatly unhappy that the DCs are bearing the brunt of it and that is so vey wrong. I don't wont to leave him, I just want him to value me and acknowledge me as a wife should be treated. Sounds pretty much like you too. I know it doesn't help but you are definately not alone. I wish I had the answer. The only one I have is to try and be the BIGGER person in all this but when you feel so low it is not an easy task. Big hug.

I think there comes a point when you have to acknowledge that your partner is a different person to the partner you want, and he isn't going to change. Some people are more reserved than others (not out of malice, just out of personality type) and the more they are pressured to display emotion, the more they withdraw and become resentful. He has a right to be the person he is, ie less demonstrative than you: are you prepared to compromise in any way or are you devoting all your efforts into trying to make him someone he is not?

Hello learningcurve. I am sorry but I think you should leave this man. He sounds exceptionally cold and cruel. He must know what he is doing to you - he must know you are crying in the bathroom. He must know that when you have resolved an issue and he has apologised and said it won't happen again, that it DOES happen again.

My guess is you have become over-emotional and theatrical because he has pushed you to the egde too many times. You dn't trust your own emotions, you feel like you are going slightly mad or even very mad. But you ost eloquently and are very aware of exactly what has been happening down the years and of your own efforts to compromise/email him with your thoughts/tell him calmly how you feel and what you need etc.

I am not sure why you have agreed to have another baby with him. Were you going through a good patch? What does he do for a living - or rather, is he clearly an intelligent man? It is a shame you have moved abroad with him. But no matter. You can move back. You can leave. You can do what is best for your child and your child to come. And, frankly, for yourself.

You have already had suicidal thoughts. No man is worth this amount of pain. if he will not get help, will not change, will not stop standing over you with his expressionaless face, then that is his problem. Passive/aggressive probably, emotionally abusive definitely.

Leave.

Also, I dont post on many threads, but this is behaviour I recognise. It kills you inside. You flail around trying to make things better, swinging between feeling sorry for the man, loving and wanting to heal him and loathing him; between hating yourself and thinking yourself mad and worrying that you are the cause of the problems in your marriage and knowing inside that you are sane and kind and loving and ok and he is turning you into someone you Do Not Want To Be.

Things like that (your situation won't be exactly the same as mine).

Does it ring any bells with you? I will shut up if it doesn't. Stop trying to make sense of it all and thinking you need advice about healing/coping with a passive/aggressive person. For now, clear the decks, be strong and brave, be practical above all else and think how you can leave. Even if he agrees to sort things properly at a later stage. You are NOT going to reach that stage while you remain in the marriage as it is.

Hugs. Please tell me to fark off if necessary. I wont be offended.

But honesntly,

gawd, my DH is a bit like that during an argument due to not really knowing what to do/say generally... a good way to deal with it is to actually tell him what you DO want him to do or say, rather than being upset that he's not read you properly. Clearly he has little insight so spell it out. Try approaching him when things are calm and there's no incident to argue over. Say that when you get upset you respond well to being comforted physically and could he please try that next time? Be specific.
Counselling is a good idea and I can recommend CBT for people who react defensively when under stress/pressure.
You do sound a tad dramatic but that's not a crime... I have my moments too and with you being very different, you could draw strength from each other's traits- ie, he stays cool and you are passionate... try to focus on what you can change rather than what you can't.

What did the counsellor tell you about you? Did she tap into the emotional and dramatic side of you, has she given you any help in dealing with this in a better way?

Do you think that perhaps you no longer love him?

I just think - make the leap, it will be worth it in the end. He is not making you happy but you will be happy again.

I truly feel for you, it sounds like you are in a lot of emotional pain.

But, there is a lot of focus here on you, and his effect on you. I wonder, have you ever asked him what he feals, or thinks, what is behind that stone cold face? What are his emotions in all this?

I agree you sound depressed, and I also agree that pills may not be the solution, finding and dealing with the root cause is.

The focus should not be solely on YOU, neither on HIM, but the two of you together.

What is it that YOU do that makes him go stone cold and emotionless? What sort of behaviour would most likely get the responses from him that you seek? What do YOU need to change for him to stop ignoring you. Similarly, what in his behaviour is it that turn you hysterical, and why? You sound like two magnets, where the negative poles are being forced together.

If there is one thing reserved men dislike intensely, it's questions about how they feel and what they are thinking about.

I agree. all relationships involve 2 people.If he reacts like this it is for a reason. He didn't always. what has changed?

Why do you argue? what about? do you have different values or is it petty stuff? Are you stubborn? do you want your own way always?

Why did you have another baby if your marriage was in trouble?

I am sure you don't, but your post just screams "me, me, me!" and doesn't explain what he thinks or feels. That is why I said I felt sorry for him.

If HE was posting here, what would he be saying?