Should I be upset that he wont marry me?

[ChezzaB]

Hi This may seem like a strange one but humour me please.... my dp and I have a 7mo ds who has my dp's surname, am I stupid for caring that me and my son have different names? I know I can change my name egally but I relly wanted to have the special day but dp is totally against it! I did know this from the beginning but my feelings have changed now we have a child! Am I just being stupid?Now whenever I mention it I get accused of nagging, should I just give up and deal with the fact that I'll never get the fairytale wedding I desire?!

Look Dittany, if you are cross about the law, there's no need to take it out on me with all your rolling eye emoticons. I didn't make the laws and it's dreadfully tedious. I have been through all this in huge detail when helping a member of my family whose ex wanted to change their child's name, against the will of the child, to the name of her new husband.
The case law is quite clear. It is normally only in very exceptional conditions that judges will allow the name on the birth certificate to be changed against the will of one of the parents.
I said that if the mother unilaterally changed the name of the child from the father's name once it was on the birth certificate then the judges could and probably would order her to change it back. THe principle is that the name on the birth certificate stands unless both parents agree to a change or unless it is very detrimental to the child to bear the name of their father or mother, which in practise usually (though not absolutely always) means something like the other parent has become notorious through, say, committing a crime that has attracted much publicity. YOu may not like that, but it is the case. I personally wish that more unmarried women knew that there was no going back, and I think it is madness to give your child a different name from yourself if it is important to you to have the same one, and also I would never give the father's name if he wasn't living with me, but some women feel differently. In the OPs case, as she is actually living with the father, she would not legally be allowed to change the child's name without his consent. Now, can you please let me give helpful information that I happen to know about to people without the snide remarks, eh?

Joolyjoolyjoo, that can be easily avoided though without being married. Since 2002 if parents live together and register the birth together the father does have parental responsibility. (Before then you had to organise parental reponsibility for cohabiting fathers, we did it, it wasn't that hard. But now it is very simple). was this before 2002, the case you mention?

On the Next of Kin thing. The NHS guidelines are that cohabiting couples are recognised as next of kin for NHS purposes. Doctors and nurses won't all know this but it is the case. My dsis and her dp are doctors, they are utterly convinced you do not need to be married, you just insist that as cohabiting partner you are the next of kin under current NHS guidelines.

There is also a little card you can download from the internet and stick in your purse stating who you want your next of kin to be. It's easy. We did it.

This is different from next of kin if one of you dies and hasn't made a will and you need a legal next of kin for that.

But for medical stuff, cohabitation does count in NHS guidelines.

Can't you compromise here? You haven't told us his reasons for not wanting to get married, but could it be based around not wanting to spend loads and have a big wedding? It can be equally romantic if you just pop down to the registry office on a Friday morning with a couple of friends, with a bottle of champagne on the pavement afterwards! And then you'd be married and could change your name if you wanted to.

I think TBH, once you have kids, you will probably NOT get "the fairytale wedding I desire" if that's a very traditional, large-scale wedding because there are so many other things to spend your money on. It's more a question of finding alternative ways to make the day special.

I do agree with you Fennel re the NHS but the wider legal implications for the survivor after their partner has died suddenly remain the same regardless of whether the other made a will or died intestate (which then becomes even more complex).

It must always be remembered that the partner of someone who is unmarried is not the next of kin.

An unmarried partner is still not permitted to for instance obtain Letters of Administration, receive a widows allowance or be permitted to administer the estate of the deceased.

Fennel- it was in 2002, and I'm not sure if he had parental responsibility, although they did register the birth together, but I thought parental responsibilty didn't come in until Dec 2003? Is it the same as legal guardianship- I know it gives the father several rights, but not sure if it is the same thing

OK, so who takes care of the stuff when someone dies if that person is not married and also has no living adult blood relations? Isn't there a way of nominating someone to be your next of kin if you don't have a legal one?

I do think that while there are elements of legal risk in not marrying a long-term cohabiting partner and co-parent, in practice unless one partner has awful troublemaking relatives who have always hated the other partner, most people will treat a cohabiting co-parent as next of kin for practical purposes.

Jjj it might be 2003, I might have just got the wrong year there, and it sounds as though your friend was before that.

I do agree there are legal and financial consequences to cohabiting and they can't all be overcome by alternative measures (though many can).

But people also do have very strong reasons for not wanting to get married so you have to balance the possible negative consequences of your choice against how you want to live your life and conduct your relationship. It's not just legal irresponsibility or even ignorance which makes people not get married. Two of my cohabiting friends with 3 small children are both lawyers. They know the issues.

My DP thinks that marriage isn't necessary and thinks there is to much divorce in the world anyway! This then makes me think can he not see himself with me for life if he is saying about the divorce thing!!! The main reason our ds was given his surname is because I don't particularly like mine but also dp's father really wanted ds to carry on the family name! I do want the big day i guess but I'm also just looking to the future and thinking of all the legal implications too like as wannabe says if dp did get in an accident etc where would that leave me!!! I just

sorry ds pressed send oops I just don't really know what to do for the best!!! I'm sick of being called a nag but it means alot to me! thank you all for your comments though! they are all really helpfull especially as there are both perspectives there!

Make wills, make sure your name is on the mortgage deeds, download the next of kin card. That'll sort out the bulk of the legal stuff.

Maybe you will be together forever, maybe not: honestly, seriously, lots of people who get married don't stay together, and vice versa.

The legal position is that if you are unmarried and the other person dies the survivior is not automatically next of kin as you are not related to them.

TBH distant relations are often eventually found (be it a distant second or third cousin) but it takes time not just to say expense. Probate could in theory go on for years. There are many cases on record which show that very distant relatives from the deceased have inherited where neither party is aware or has been aware of the other's existance.

Some cohabitees on death have been left with very little particularly if the property has had to be sold. You put a sum of money into this and people can and do behave badly. The surviving partner as well has no legal right to adminsiter the deceased's estate if they are unmarried. Not everyone will be sympathetic by any means and will take whatever they can (and see themselves as legally entitled to) from the estate of the deceased.

also by fairytale wedding I meant just a nice day I would love to just run away to gretna and grab a couple of ppl off the street I don't want big yes i'd love a nice dress and some nice photos but that doesn't have to cost loads!!!

The problem is I think is that dying suddenly is always something that happens to someone else you don't know. But it can happen to you.

Regardless also of what is put in place legally beforehand in terms of wills etc (and by no means all people be they unmarried or married do such things) it does not change the fact that the unmarried partner is not next of kin in a legal sense, may not be permitted to buy a headstone, is not entitled to be in receipt of a widows pension and is unable to administer the deceased's estate. Apart from dealing with emotional grief the financial implications post death have to be contended with as well.

As far as I know, the only legal/financial issue that can't be easily sorted out without getting married is the tax one - and we can live with that.

I agree with seeker. I am married but I dont think it makes any difference and I hate weddings and all the shit that goes with it. A strong relationship is all thats important, not a legally binding document

Actually, Attila, I think that it's divorce that always happens to 'someone else', on MN anyway.

DH and I got married specifically because we wanted to have a child (or two...) and did not want to run the risk of one of us ending up in the sort of legal tangle described on here. I didn't change my name. DS has DH's last name (mine is already double-barrelled and I couldn't inflict 3 on him...). I don't find this causes any problems. I can see, however, that if you feel your DP is not sufficiently committed to you to get married that would be very distressing. What is his objection?

Actually for all my anti-marriage stance I would be concerned at a DP who didn't want to organise his financial and legal affairs suitably if we had children together. Not because I feel a need for commitment but because it isn't fair otherwise.

I don't expect a partner to want to get married, but I do expect them to be prepared to fill out the right forms for pensions and savings accounts and parental rights, so that if something unexpected happens we would be OK.

Thanks for advice Atilla. Genuinely I mean! Our lawyer thinks we've got all that covered in our wills. Plus he's got no money to speak of anyway!

Can I just say I would be very surprised if i was refused a headstone... He'd be cremated anyway and live in a jar on my mantelpiece but

For me there's a difference between a relationship where both partners have decided it's fine and dandy not to legally marry, and one where one partner dearly wants to marry but the other is very hostile to it.

My view on it (which sadly runs contrary to the way it seems to be resolved IRL) is that if it's just a piece of paper and meaningless to one person, then why not do it, given that it does mean so much to their partner? What harm could it do? Let's face it, if you have a house and kids together then any split will be messy as hell anyway. And I am never convinced by the 'so many marriages fail, what's the point?' arguments: if you only ever did things that were 100% guaranteed to succeed, then most of us would never be doing anything in life. We all commit to jobs all the time, knowing that they may not work out yet hoping that they will actually be jobs we want to stay in for a long time, even to the end of our (working) lives. Why not give marriage the same kind of chance?

I also think that the historical baggage of what people expect from a wedding is no reason to be put off. Show that you can get past that. Go down to the registry office by yourselves in your lunch hour, or go with just a few friends and have a curry afterwards - whatever it takes. There's no need to spend a fortune or feel you have to do all the trad stuff. Making the commitment is what's important, not who's there or what you wear.

I'm in the same position as kat2907 - married but didn't change my name, and planning to give my DC husband's name on arrival. Double barrelling is fine if you like it, but it's not for me. I will have given birth to DC so, while I accept I may get the occasional pang about us having different names, it's not the biggest thing, and it will be a good opportunity for me to teach DC that you don't judge people by their names (or having the same name), but what they are like inside. Plus I am fine with being called 'Mrs Husbandsname' informally when needsbe - I've always got that option, plus the legal protection of being married to DC's father - while that wasn't why we got married, it would always have been a factor for me in deciding to have a child with someone.

That's just how I feel about it EightiesChick. If it's not a question of commitment to your partner, why not get the bit of paper? Unless you're planning to do a runner, the benefits surely must out-weigh the risks in terms of security, etc?

Chezza, if he doesn't agree to marry you, I think your resentment will grow and grow (I speak from experience!). I don't believe wanting to be married is something you can compromise on. If he loves you enough, why can't he move towards what you want? The issue is though, if he didn't agree to marry you, would you leave? With a young child, I'm sure it's not something that you can imagine doing.

Don't for one minute think that you're "nagging" when you bring this up. I hate that word - it was invented by men to demean women. Funny that men can't nag! Your needs are totally valid and you must be true to them or you might end up not liking yourself much. I reckon the best thing you can do is to just keep talking to him, calmly and rationally, so he can see how important this it to you. The worst thing you can do is ignore it. Good luck.

Move out. If he wants you back, and his DC, he can bloody well get over himself and commit to all of you legally.

If you want a man to marry you, NEVER live with him! It's absolutely bonkers. The benefits to a bloke of marrying a woman are all the ones he gets from living with her, so once you're sharing his house he has NO MOTIVATION WHATSOEVER to marry you.

You have to give him that motivation. Sadly, the idea of doing it purely to make you happy isn't enough for him so you're going to have to up the ante.