How do I tell my mother that, actually, large chunks of my childhood were pretty miserable?

[purplehairpiercedears]

Whenever my mother and I talk about when I was a kid it always ends up (no matter what I've been saying) with her going, "Yeah - but you were ok, weren't you? Yuo had a good childhood?"

I try to avoid the subject as much as I can, as I don't want to upset the relationship we have now - and she is a fabulous granny to my dc's. But when it comes up I just feel like shit, and never know whether to say anything to her or not. I was far from a deprived child - and I know I was a very wanted and loved one. But my mother's attitude really gets me down a lot of the time and impacts onto our lives now. Her tacit disapproval of my life now - from everything to my dh (who she insisted I marry when I was pg with ds) to the age gap between my dc.

Should I say anything when the subject next comes up? Apologies for the disjointed post and namechange - she posts on MN a lot of the time.

No advice I'm affraid but I have a similar problem with my mother. She was fierce and pretty physical with us, not a visibly caring or tactile person and was always bemoaning how hard done by she was in life,our relationship was difficult especially during the teen years as she was so domineering.

I now have a reasonable relationship with her, it's an adult relationship and I don't feel bulied like I did when I was younger but I don't have the heart / energy / will, to point out how her behaviour was damaging when I was younger. She's totally oblivious of it. Sometimes I wish I could though because it's annoying when she bangs on about how great she was when actually she wasn't. But, I have a DH that I sound off to, we maintain a reasonable relationship, she's happy, I'm happy and I wouldn't run the risk of that changing. Hope you resolve yours.

PS If my mother was still behaving in this way I would be tempted to bring it up. Thankfully she's not perhaps partly because I'm more confident now

I've had the conversation with my mum and things that happen in my childhood often come up. She can be quite defensive but usually resigns herself to saying 'well I suppose it was all my fault, I did everything wrong', which really pees me off because its not (all) her fault. And I have no doubt that we were all very loved - that was where she got her happiness from (and she only wants to remember the good stuff else it makes her feel a failure), she finds it hard to understand that from our pov most of the memories were not particularly good.

I think it helps to talk about it. We go through phases, I know that when i am feeling emotional and vulnerable (post father's death, exhaustion with small baby time) its better not to talk about it.

I know just what you mean and it is so frustrating. You know that bad things happened by how shit you feel when you look back on it, yet you feel you are going mad because your mother acts like it was all normal. It makes you doubt yourself, but, if you feel it, it was real. My parents find it impossible to talk about any emotive issues so I didn't say anything for years but I then wrote them a very long letter about things that happened and how it made me feel. It made me feel a lot better even though it was terrifying and our relationship is damaged (but it already was). It depends how strongly you feel and if suppressing it is making you unhappy or if 'rocking the boat' would make you feel worse. What would be best for you?

If its any consolation I think telling her how I feel has improved our relationship, I feel as if a weight has been lifted off me and resentment is disappearing. She is still there and is actually quite supportive now and that's a sign of how much she loves me.

Would suggest you take a look at the "Well we took you to stately homes" thread on these pages.

Your Mother is not taking any responsibility for what happened to you as a child.

You may also want to read "Toxic Parents" written by Susan Forward.

Ginger - my mother was always very loving towards us, but it had to be on her terms. If she said something it was pretty much law - and even my dad didn't dare to contradict her. The only time I remember her backing down was when a family friend pointed out that it was a bit mad that she had said no to me getting my ears pierced until i was 16. She let me have them done when i was 15, and then was extremely upset when I got other piercings done at 16 (nothing extreme - my nose and another set of holes in my ears). She didn't speak to me for weeks when I had a tattoo done at 19!

She had no concept of privacy - and used the argument that my room was in her house so had to be tidied to her standards. Which were pretty high, it must be said!

My parents were pretty big on smacking - I can remember being smacked (in public) and humiliated until I was about 9.

My own behaviour was pretty shocking, it must be said. I remember my dad calling me a "sly vixen" when I got caught truanting from school at 12, and I was a regular liar and would steal from my mother's purse. So I don't think i was the easiest child - but she doesn't seem to "get" that at least some of my behaviour had its roots in her parenting. As a parent myself I can see it now - and I get really upset when she suggests that I should smack ds, and tries to justify her reasons for smacking me.

I should just keep my mouth shut, really, shouldn't i?

I don't know if I do want to rock the boat - as I say she is a very good grandmother and I think she does know how I feel.

It's very difficult for me to go on the stately homes thread as I have to namechange to say anything negative about her as I'm pretty sure she searches my posts on here.

It is hard when your mother wants to rewrite history but it sounds like you have ongoing issues with her - maybe you should deal with them first as a way into discussing things from the past?

I am lucky in that I have a great relationship with my mum now but in the past it has not been. In the end I told her that I found it hard to take all her jokes about what a horrible teenager I was (I don't think I was particularly but she handled those years very badly IMO) when she wouldn't have won any awards for mother of the year herself at the time. She saw how much it upset me and has never said anything of the kind again.

My mum struggles because my childhood was really quite awful with poverty, sexual abuse and lots of violence and emotional abuse too from my father. She would like to pretend that it never happened and that she was the only victim, not because she wants to be the most important but because I think it upsets her so much that she failed my brother and me. To some extent she did, but most of it wasn't her fault. But it stops her from moving on as she can't talk about it without breaking down and I don't want to upset her so I try not to raise the subject. What I won't stand for is statements to the effect that I had a great childhood, because that is a lie.

Whether or not you should say anything to her probably depends on how much of a problem keeping quiet is for you.

It strikes me as the kind of thing that could do a lot of harm without doing much good BUT it could also allow you to "cauterise" old wounds and lead to happier times for you. Only you can decide.

It sounds as though disagreeing with her openly is difficult for you - I'm guessing you haven't challenged what she has said about your dc's age gap, etc, and you make it sound like you married your dh because your mum told you to (how old were you at the time?).

Would counselling of some kind help? Perhaps being able to talk to someone else about these things would relieve you of the need to bring it up with your mum. Or it might help you do decide what you want to, and can, achieve by telling her and how to go about it if you decide to do it.

I think maybe her "Yeah - but you were ok, weren't you? Yuo had a good childhood?" thing may be because she is looking for confirmation from you, you could give her replies such as 'We had nice christmases/holidays...' give her a chance to open a conversation with you about it if she wants to.

Purple- you could try just reading the Stately homes thread. It must be awful for you that she could be reading your posts on here. Perhaps you could change your name and not tell her.

Agree with PL that standing up for yourself now with ongoing issues would be a really good start. Don't let her carry on into your adulthood what she did when you were a child.

Do you have to tell her?

My mum is very distant even though she lives 15 minutes' drive away! She is not a good grandmother or mother and I don't have what I would call an intimate mother-daughter relationship with her - she is just someone I am related to.

I had a similar childhood in that I was not physically abused or neglected, but my father was rarely around, was extremely controlling and emotionally abusive. He controlled my mum even when he wasn't at home and made a lot of decisions that badly affected the family - my mum never stood up to him & opposed them, when I believe it was her duty to.

I have a lot of anger towards both my parents but could never tell them, as our relationship is not "intimate" enough IYSWIM?

If I did, I'm sure it would upset them, so I just carry on and pretend that everything is OK. They don't seem interested in my or my kids' life so I don't involve them in it.

If you really feel you have to, and can risk "losing" her, then do it, if not, don't!

purplehair that is really odd as I had a conversation at the weekend with my mother and I was talking about my DD who is 2 and currently a real challenge. She told me that I need to smack her and I said, no I don't want DD to grow up frightened of me (I think the implication that I was of her as a child was quite clear). She didn't say anything and the conversation moved on but I think she may have taken it in perhaps for the first time.

I know exactly what you're saying about 'her terms' that is so so the same as mine. 'It's my way or the highway' was the method in our house. We also had to have very tidy rooms and doors had to be opened all the time (I'm pretty obsessional now to the point that I'm more so than she is anymore!) We also weren't allowed ears piereced, friends over, choose our own clothes, hair etc until we were about 16 and we were by no means bad kids. We were very much obedient. We used to go out and get drunk, say we were doing one thing and do another but things she never knew about so she can't ever use the argument that she needed to be tough because we were difficult.

So much has happened in our family and I do feel that some of this can be attributed to my mothers behaviour and lack of demonstrative affection but she would never ever see this. For her, she ran a very tight ship and some of us followed orders and others rebelled.

Hi Purplehairpiercedears,

You may find the following also interesting:-

Susan Forward (who wrote Toxic Parents)wrote the following:-

Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly us it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ....

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too.

Also your Dad calling you a "sly little vixen" when you were caught truanting could be construed as emotionally abusive as well. He was certainly not wondering why you were truanting was he, no he was just accusing and blaming. Neither of your parents have accepted any real responsibility for their actions and likely never will.

I would also argue that toxic parents are more than capable of passing on their issues to the next generation and the one after as well.

Thank you, Attila. That makes a lot of sense.

Sorry to read about this situation. I guess you have to make a pretty tough call and either decide to try and move on emotionally or have it out with her. Do you have siblings and do they feel the same?

My own situation is that I have very controlling parents who disapproved of my partner which has led to a complete breakdown of communication (for the past 7 years). As a result, they have a beautiful grandson who they have never seen and my dad didn't come to my wedding. I don't regret it as my life is less complicated and happier without them in it. It has led to resentment at times as I see how well loved my husband is by his parents and I admit I can feel very jealous of this. I am desperate that my son is not affected by any of this.

Attila - are you Susan Forward (who wrote Toxic parents) Just curious ?

Thanks for all your replies. I've just got in from the park!

MsH - Keeping quiet is a problem for me - I am quite a forthright person and can be very outspoken at times. It's just that I have spent so long in the past either not talking to my parents at all (when I was 19 I moved away from my home town and didn't speak to them for nearly a year) and I don't want to repeat that. Also, my ds would miss her terribly as he is very fond of her.

Disagreeing openly with her is very difficult. It's hard to have a rational discussion with her at the best of times - but when it's something so emotive (I wouldn't like someone critcizing my parenting either) it's virtually impossible! Also, my dc2 was unplanned, the age gap (26 months) is not ideal, and sometimes it feels like because she had a 4.5 year gap between her kids it's what everyone should do! (Regardless of the fact that my brother and I were not particularly close as children because of the large age gap!) We pretty much did get married because my mother told us to - my dad was very ill at the time and she would say things like, "Your dad will be so upset if you have a child out of wedlock..." I was in my early 20's.

I've been trying to get counselling for other things and have really struggled. So although I think it might help, I've found NHS help virtually impossible to access.

Atilla - thank you for your post. I will definitely have to get a copy of that book. There are other, darker issues that I have with my parents that I don't really want to discuss on here as it would make me far too easy to identify - if i haven't already.

I am going to go back to my old name now but will check back on this thread later. Again, thank you for all your help and advice.

Purple it is really sad to read you justifying the age gap between your children like that You do not have to do that (and FWIW the age gap between my children when DC2 arrives shortly will be 26m!). It's like you feel you mum has a valid point. She doesn't. And it is very worrying that she stalks you online so you can't be open here - that is very unreasonable and a bit scary if you don't mind my saying so.

I hope you can get some counselling and that the book is useful to you.

26 months is a great age gap!!! my mum had 5 years between all her kids and it was crap!

If you are who I think you are, then I would say a) she is nuts and b) I would probably stay quiet and fume inwardly... but that is a problem of mine

I would change the subject and move on.

My mum is very unsure of my current life plan, I am going with the very grown up method of avoiding talking about it until I have to

I am on msn if ya want to outpour

purplehair - hold your tongue until your children have got past the bunking off school at 12 and other teenage behaviours.

When you have come through the teenage years unscathed you can tell her what for if you still need to!

If you go for it now she'll spend the next few years looking even more smug as your dcs do the equivalent of piercings etc - they'll choose something that will make your blood boil so it won't be piercings as they knows you like those!

Perhaps it'll be crimplene skirts or tan tights? Or "born again" religion....

gagrin - i have nightmares about ds coming home with an eminently "suitable" girl and saying, "Hello, Mother, this is Mary. Her father is the chairman of the local Tory party...By the way - did you iron my jeans?"