How do I tell my mother that, actually, large chunks of my childhood were pretty miserable?

[purplehairpiercedears]

Whenever my mother and I talk about when I was a kid it always ends up (no matter what I've been saying) with her going, "Yeah - but you were ok, weren't you? Yuo had a good childhood?"

I try to avoid the subject as much as I can, as I don't want to upset the relationship we have now - and she is a fabulous granny to my dc's. But when it comes up I just feel like shit, and never know whether to say anything to her or not. I was far from a deprived child - and I know I was a very wanted and loved one. But my mother's attitude really gets me down a lot of the time and impacts onto our lives now. Her tacit disapproval of my life now - from everything to my dh (who she insisted I marry when I was pg with ds) to the age gap between my dc.

Should I say anything when the subject next comes up? Apologies for the disjointed post and namechange - she posts on MN a lot of the time.

Oh I have similar nightmares.... my biggest is DD announcing she likes drum n bass (or whatever shit dance music is called atm), and/or finding god.

um...... you don't.

You know what? I think personally the best way forward is not to dwell on the past anymore but to concentrate on the present, and her current behaviour. Regarding your childhood, it sounds as if she feels she did her best given her personality and circumstances. It certainly doesn't sound perfect, and yes, she sounds controlling but tattoos and piercings can be very upsetting to see on your children. I'd hate any of mine to have them!
I would be devastated if my children came to me in later life and hurled my every mistake, end-of-tether mean remark, horrid tantrum in my face. I'm not perfect at all, I have done things that I think are wrong, but I do love them more than myself.
HOWEVER, I do think you can challenge her behaviour to you now. So if she says you had your children too close together you can say, 'Oh I'm so glad I have this gap. I think it makes them closer and I got the nappies over much sooner!' and if she says, 'well it was too much of a strain/the children don't get enough attention' (or whatever nonsense) you say, 'Well, that's your opinion. We are all different' and refuse to engage. I think the online stalking is horrible. I would be horrified by that. You didn't tell her about MN did you? Bad mistake!

mabana, I honestly think that people who say the past isn't important either had a relatively okay childhood (in which case they can't really understand), or they are in complete denial about the horrendous pain their own mother put them through. It is only when people somehow get in touch with this debilitating, depressing pain that they feel the need to question their childhood and ask for explanations.

To put this into context, I thought my childhood was fine. NOthing wrong at all with it. I might have even given the same advice to someone else'LEt bygones be bygones'. 'forgive and forget' When I was 23 and about to get married, all the horrendous physical and phsychological abuse I'd suffered came flooding back into my brain. I'd forgotten!!!
For people whose childhood was rubbish its very important for them to face it and to face their mother, otherwise they can't heal

Yes, but your mum being furious because you had a piercing and a tattoo is not exactly horrendous physical and psychological abuse, is it? None of us have perfect parents, and I think that you can become even unhappier dwelling on what you can't change.

mabanana - i know what you're saying, and yes - in and of itself, being upset that your child had a piercing/tattoo is not horrendous at all. But within the context of feeling utterly powerless, feeling that nothing belonged to me (not even my own body) and having been quite badly "spanked" (hit) as a smaller child ... well, it all adds up.

I would also hate my dc to come back to me when he is older and bring up every single misdemeanour and parenting failure that I've ever committed. But I hope that if they did i'd be able to talk with them about it, and at least acknowledge their hurt - even if i couldn't accept that i'd done anything wrong.

jawjaw - do i know you?

The best thing about childhood.....

is it's over now.

Move on

I can see you felt hurt as a child, and justifiably so. But I suspect if you do bring it up your parents it will not make things better. YOu are an adult now, and strong enough to stand up to your mum and I think that WILL make you feel better. I'd suggest, in all kindness, that you concentrate on what you can change, which is how you let your mum's words and actions make you feel, and what you let her get away with unchallenged. Good luck!

did you have good times as well as bad?

playing devils advocate here, but some kids are just glass half empty kinda people.

seems like this is all about the drama around you sorry to say.

if she was a shit mother - then dont have a relationship with her

if she had shit times and good times - like most of us human beings do - then fine move on get over yourself.

what dya want the outcome to be anyway.

what would YOU feel like if your child said " atually mum, you were pretty shit y;know"

hurful wouldnt begin to describe it

i am likening this - must shoot mi gob off - to a fella who has had an affair and just must spout to wifey

what good comes of this

none.
no good at all, except you will be in the middle of a drama centred on you - then somepeople like that kind of thing.

again - i really do think people have the propensity to just remember the shit things

Sometimes people use examples of 'lesser' bad things that happened because they need to talk about it but find it too hard to talk about the worst things. I think this is what the OP has done. I agree that if you have had a relatively easy childhood it is easy to say "just get over it" but it isn't as simple as that when negative attitudes towards yourself and life have been ingrained in you when you were young. It is like your mind needs reprogramming.

I think that my mother had some very toxic aspects at times, and to be honest she still does. But I can also recognise that there were lots of things she did right, and that she was acting to the best of her abilities. Just that in some ways (empathy and tact mostly) there is something missing. We had a very difficult relationship when I was a teenager (I ended up persuading my father to send me to boarding school), and then she was very upset when I met and moved in with dh (we barely spoke for about two years). However my family is very important to me, and she has been a much better granny than mother (although some of her attitudes to her granddaughters is worrying).

I had a lot of counseling a few years ago (for other reasons) and spent probably about 50% of the time talking about my mother. It helped me put a lot of things behind me and understand both myself and my mother better.

I have a much better relationship with her now, but she still can press all the wrong buttons, and make me very upset. I find not going there is the best thing to do to be honest. It won't make me feel better for her to understand how upset I was then. I have grown up and I am happy with who I am now. Strangely I get more validation from her now too. Although she still likes to tell me completely inappropriate things I am able to put them to one side, and know that it is her problem she thinks such strange things. I don't actually have to pay any attention at all (a bit weird when you are used to needing approval, which I think is the natural way to feel towards parents).

So I'd keep trying to get that counseling. I got mine through work, which was fab, but you may be able to get subsidized counseling from one of the big charities (I know relate does this for example). When you can set aside and "grow out" of the pain of the past it is incredibly liberating.

nooka has hit it on the head.....she is very wise! Especially...

"I have a much better relationship with her now, but she still can press all the wrong buttons, and make me very upset."

And IMO everyone of many of us could say that of our parents.

And I also believe that most of our children will say that about us when they are older.

If the relationship is really tough then go for help from counselling - but suddenly telling a parent how nad they were/are and how miserable a chilshood was may well be destructive to everyone cocnerned - OP included.

I'm with Custy on this one. My mother made a LOT of mistakes when we were younger. I recall viewing my eldest sister as more of a mother figure because she was my protector and the one doling out the love. However I have come to understand the root of my mother's failings and know that despite everything she loved us very much. We have a great relationship now and she is a wonderful grandmother. I would not jeopardise that simply to point out things that she can do nothing about now. She knows she could have done things differently, I don't see what it could achieve to drag everything up.
You have DH to vent to, it is important to have an outlet, i'm just not sure you will ever get what you really want from your mother and ultimately that will only make you feel worse.
And of course you have Mumsnet

I don't think you do tell your mum.

Let it rest!

Develop your relationship for now - forgive her

I had a bad relationship with my mum, particularly during my teenage years and it didn't really improve much before she died when I was 24. My childhood was ok (and materialistically we didn't have any worries) (my Dad was great) despite her problems which made life very difficult at times - she was an alcoholic and there are a few excrutiating memories. She was also incredibly critical (I was fat she was thin, I didn't work hard enough at school...well I turned out ok in that respect etc etc)

After she died my father told me a bit about her past which explained things and set the context (she'd had 2 DCs adopted as babies) and I understood things.

So if she were alive now, would I be bringing it all up? I suspect no, because rocking the boat made it worse. I am sure she would have loved being a granny...I don't know. But for sure, if she challenged me on my parenting choices, I would be firm and stick to my guns. It is a bit unfair to accuse someone of things they might or might not have done some 15 years after they have died, but I think that if she had criticised me in that respect I would be very angry.

Thanks for all your posts - I'll have to be quick with this as I have to go to work.

I think you are right, in that I need to move on. I've been talking with a RL friend about this, whi suggested that either I talk about with my mother and try to discuss the issues as adults (with the outcome hopefully being my mother at least accepting that she wasn't the perfect mother and my childhood was not the shining paragon of motherhood that it could have been ) or every time she brings it up I just refuse to discuss it. I think I will go with the latter option (cause I'm a wuss!) and this will hopefully help me to regain some of the power (wrong word - but I'm in a rush, sorry) from the relationship.

There are other, much deeper, issues that I'm not really willing to discuss on here as it would make me far too easy to identify. I'm very lucky because I have RL friends and dh who I can discuss this things with.

Thanks again for taking the time - I do need to let this go and to stop it eating up my time and headspace.

Following on from custy's post, I sometimes have a vivid flash-foward to the future where all our children are analysing their relationships with us in this way.

How are we going to stand up to the scrutiny?

Purple - if you are looking into finding counselling for yourself Iwould suggest looking for a psychodynamic counsellor through the BACP.

You will be able to talk through your feelings for your mother and decide whether it's worth rocking the boat now, when you say you don't want to upset the relationship you have now - as it's entirely possible that you will never get the response you want from her. But you may find, having worked it through with the right counsellor, you no longer need to.

Why do you have to tell her? You're a grown-up now, deal with it. She's great with your DCs and you acknowledge that you were very loved.

I think you need to move on. You are living your life for you, not to please your mother. Don't get into discussions about your childhood with her.

Focus on what's not good about your relationship now, if you want to.

I think Sakura's comment was very pertinent:-

"For people whose childhood was rubbish its very important for them to face it and to face their mother, otherwise they can't heal".

People who grew up where their parents were (and I would argue still are) toxic can carry a heavy weight which goes on to affect their adult lives and relationships. It is not at all easy to "let go" of the past even though their childhood years are long behind them, damaging patterns imposed by the parent have to be unlearnt. Many people in such situations also go on to put the needs of thier parents before their own.

I think as well that women whose own parents were and remain toxic become even more determined not to repeat the behaviours their parents did with their own children and forge their own path instead with them.

Purplehair - you may actually find it to be useful also to talk to a cousnellor re your Mother. Family and friends can be helpful but are not totally impartial, I am not suggesting you don't talk to them. However, I would urge you to also consider seeing a counsellor as well - you need another viewpoint from someone completely impartial.

If you haven't already read "Toxic Parents" I would suggest you do. Another good publication is "When your Mother and you cannot be friends".

hi.haven't read full thread but alot of things said here mirror my own feelings.my mum was (is) a very domineering person and,although i'm 40 now,I still feel like she can manipulate me.I had a wonderful relationship with my Dad(passed away earlier this year)and I used to be able to tell him anything.Mum,however,was a completely different kettle of fish!She loves my kids dearly but if they step out of line,she tells me to "give him/her a good smack"!I told her that we don't do that these days to which she sneers and says things like "a good slap across the top of the legs doesn't do them any harm"!!!!Having said all this,we talk every day on the phone...stopped cat-fighting years ago-although she did slap me across the face not long after i'd had my first child and suffering with pnd!IN MY OWN HOUSE and infront of my Dad...who was horrified.We have "adult"conversations now but she can still make me feel like an idiot if I tell her about something stupid I might've done in the day...of course,she never does anything wrong!!!!(if she does,it's someone else's fault)and she can argue black is white till the cows come home.Even when she's proved wrong,she's right.I've learnt to do a bit of reverse psychology with her recently. Like,mentioning how scruffy my house looks.Her answer was,"it's not that bad really though".In a few weeks,she will have turned that round and start bleating about how the house has gone to rack and ruin..i'm waiting for it!She told me the other day that she's going to give me "some money" that she'd promised my Dad she'd give me.Now I know i'm supposed to be grateful-and I am-but she's already said,"and this doesn't mean you can go swanning off on holiday with it..etc.etc."She's still a control freak!!!
so sorry to hijack.....really needed to get it off my chest though!

I don't really see the point in saying anything. It'll make her feel crap, but how will that make you feel any better?

Time to get off that leaf drifting down the river & hop back onto the riverbank and enjoy the sunshine.

Move on.

It seems interesting to me that both you and your mother post on MN--even with the name changes. Is it possible that you half hope she might see through the pseudonym and know it's you? And vice versa? It's as if you're having a kind of conversation with one another, with the protection of strangers.

"You're a grown-up now, deal with it. She's great with your DCs and you acknowledge that you were very loved".

But on whose terms exactly, most likely the parents as love was conditional.

To say "deal with it" is correct (and this is a senitment often expressed by people who had good healthy childhoods) but its not as straight forward as all that. These people imparted damaging patterns of behaviour to their children and have left them a damging legacy as adults; those patterns have to be unlearnt and that can take a lot of time.

The question of these parents too having a relationship with their grandchildren is also a very problematic one.

My dad once sent me an email apologising for my childhood and the way he behaved.

It didn't help - I felt like I was supposed to say 'oh it's all right' and get on with it. I find it easier to bring stuff up when it affects me NOW. It is difficult though and I do sympathise.