OK, so DH in spare room and we are not talking - help

[greyday]

Sorry for long post. Background is have been with DC for 5 yrs, married for 2. Am currently 5m pg with DC1.

I work hard, full time. DH also works hard, full time but earns 4x what I do. We do not have what you would call an extravagant lifestyle, we go out relatively little, buy things carefully etc etc. DH pays mortgage, I pay bills. We both pay for extras such as takeaways or vets bills. DH will buy bigger things like furniture. I buy more groceries.

We are going on a break in 2 weeks to France. Today whilst out shopping, we are at the checkout in Boots with toiletries - my things, his things and joint things. I said "I'll just get my things out of the basket" and DH immediately has a go as to why I am not getting everything as he has paid for our (cheap) break and lots of other things in the house etc etc. This said loudly in front of all busy queue and checkout girl etc. Looking back I should have just paid for everything automatically but what I didn't realise is that DH had set me a test to see if I would pay for all his and our stuff too, as it turns out he is aggrieved that he pays more.

The argument has continued all the rest of the evening. Despite my trying to reason, it has gone out of all control and has ended up with him saying hurtfully that I could afford nothing if it wasn't for him. I have said back that his own mother could never make any substantial financial contribution of her own either, so if he's calling me, he's calling her too. This was enough to send him off in a fury.

It is true, he does pay for a lot more stuff but then he's always known that I pay what I can and also that I have no hope of matching his salary. I work very hard (two 12 hour days this week alone, involving long travel, despite being pg and feeling shitty I have not had a single day off sick so far for fear of being seen as a slacker). I am not a freeloader and am not a "footballer's wife" type either. On his wage we could afford a house more than twice the value and size of the one we're in, but I am just grateful to have a roof. Its true I couldn't afford a house on my own (maybe a little flat).

I'm not sure how to take it forward. This money matter seems to have got worse since I have become pg. The warning signs have been subtley there for a few months now. I have suggested he puts forward a money plan he would be more comfortable with but he always turns it around and says "No. You put forward a plan that's fair" (this in a sneery tone, not pleasant/positive).

He has to be reminded a lot that I am pg too, ie when I returned from said 12-hour day this week I had stopped to buy dinner on the way home despite being exhausted. I asked DH to put it in the oven and put some water on to boil and he reacted like Kevin the Teenager. I ended up shouting that not only was I pg, I had had a 12 hour day and still found time to remember/buy dinner so the least he could do was stick it in the oven.

I also do most of the cleaning because I can't contribute as much financially as him and in fact there wouldn't be a house to clean if it wasn't for him.

Rant over. Thanks for listening if you're still there.

I am sorry to say this because you are pregnant, but it sounds like you should leave this horrible controlling man. relationships get harder once you have a child (initially, until it settles down) but it sounds like if he is like that already there's no hope of him getting any better. sorry, just my opinion... I wish you all the very best and hope you've got friends/ family who can support you.

First up, I hope greyday is still reading this and is OK - lots strong opinions here but its up to you what you choose to do. Let us know you're OK!

Also, I've been reading the replies with interest/fear as I have a difficult financial situation too, but the other way around. I don't want to hijack this so am off to start another thread - but would welcome advice from you excellent and wise Mumsnetters.

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Haven't read whole thread, but what struck me as much as the money issue was the fact that you did the food shopping after a 12 hour working day and he made objected to putting it in the oven, even though you were exhausted. IMO, refusing to help out can also be a sign of a controlling nature.

Has he always been like this, or is it something that has crept up and got worse? Why would his faily regard you as a gold-digger? Is that their prejudice or your lack of confidence?
The thing that struck me about your OP is the phrases you use which indicate he's got you believing that you're unworthy of him.

For instance:

"I could afford nothing if it wasn't for him"

"he's always known that I pay what I can and also that I have no hope of matching his salary."

"I also do most of the cleaning because I can't contribute as much financially as him"

YOU ARE A MARRIED COUPLE. YOU DO NOT OWE HIM.

Being in a loving relationship, in my book, means that today, even though I wasn't at work and DH was, when it came to cooking dinner, I really didn't feel up to it. DH ruffled my hair, affectionately called me a lazy git, kissed me, and said "OK, then. What would you like to eat?"
And he overlooked the fact that the downstairs was a mess and said, "never mind, let's sort it tomorrow." (Just as I overlooked the fact that it was mostly his junk lying around!)
He knows that I don't often have days like this, and I don't abuse his good nature (very much). But I really wouldn't be able to tolerate living in fear of him coming home to complain about the fact that I hadn't been pulling my weight to earn my keep.
AND I'M NOT PREGNANT, like you. That, if nothing else, changes everything.

Greyday, all of this must make unpleasant reading, and I feel for you.

But yeah, I'm shocked too. I earnt around 3x what my dh did before the kids and my potential was way higher so he made the decision to be the main carer, which he has been for the last 10 years. As soon as he gave up his job we both closed all sole name accounts and did everything through a joint account. The money I earned was OUR money because I would not be free to go out and earn it if he was not minding the children.
These days although my salary goes into the joint account and pays for most things we have separate savings accounts, since he inherited a tidy sum a few years back, and I put my overtime payments in mine. But last year his account paid my tax bill when all the others were empty.

We have never, ever argued over money.

How can anyone live like this? I accept that this sort of thing creeps up on you, but...wow.

Counselling or mediation would be a good idea. If all else fails get yourself to CAB and find out what you are entitled to. Not because anyone is saying you MUST leave your dh, but because it will give you some perspective at least, and some basis on which to negotiate.

If all else fails you have to start being secretive too. Tell him you earn 10% less than you do, and start salting it away. One day you might really really need it.

Big hug. Now go and sort it out, for your baby's sake if not for yours.

Back again. My computer lost its internet connection and I had to wait to have it reinstalled (or something, I'm not the most technical!)

Thanks for all your kind words and support.

Well we had a big row on the Sunday, eventually I said I refused to go any longer as it really couldn't be doing the baby any good. I said we should shelve it for a while until things had calmed down and then schedule in a meeting to discuss finances specifically. I also said we should look into counselling. Naturally he wasn't happy about that.

I don't think that without significant counselling, he will change, so I am going to work on the practical (finance) side of things first of all and get that in order, ie going on the mortgage, setting up a fair financial system etc. Once I feel that things are fairer (and both myself and the baby are properly protected) I will work on the emotional side of things and try to address why things are the way they are.

Change won't happen overnight but I'm not going to do anything rash, not this side of the birth.

If I were to take some responsibility, it would be that I have been so keen to show I am not after his money it has got all distorted into "my money/your money" when now, of course, its "our money"...

Hmm, unfortunately, I suspect the money things won't be easy to sort out without sorting out the emotional side first.

I suspect he needs individual counselling, tbh, to work this out.

Good for you greyday. Have been thinking about you.

I hope that without too much upheaval you will be able to as you say, get a fairer system and get you and the baby protected.

As NQC says though I wonder very much if he will 'allow' this to happen. I wonder if he is able to do that. Hopefully the strong feelings of revulsion at how he's treated you, shown on this thread, will make you feel strong about fighting this battle.

Good luck.

While you have separate bank accounts, it's so much easier to slip into yours/mine/I paid for that etc...
If you have a joint household bills account, and a joint housekeeping one, topped up from both your salaries, it's much easier to become "ours" and who put in what bcomes more blurred.

If you have any notion of leaving him FOR CHRIST'S SAKE DON'T TELL HIM

He will start squirrelling money as soon as you are out of earshot.

Sweethear, if youwere good enough to manrry, good enough to start a family with, you are good enough to supoort.

Threaten to tell all his friends how he treats you, cry in front of their wives.

During the course of one of the arguments, I said that my friend had said how they have a joint account, she works p/t but her DH treats her equally and doesn't expect her to do all the housework and childcare and basically everything else just because she earns less.

He was just furious at the thought I had said something about our set-up in return (far from feeling shamed!!!!) He turned it around into how if I can go around telling "everyone" our personal business then there's clearly no trust(?!) and how shit it all is. He went off on how I just about took the biscuit with that.

I said I hadn't said a word to my friend about our set-up (which was largely true as I am too embarassed). What was wierd was how this was such a good example to him of how lacking I am - rather than how lacking he is!

If I ever say I am sure there are people out there who would think he was being unreasonable, he's pretty much "Go and live with them then" (this said whilst looking at the tv/anywhere else but looking at me, like he can't be bothered to even turn his head). He won't take anything on board.

He can't cope with confrontation at all. His family have styled themselves to think they are like the Waltons where nobody ever has a cross word - not much gets aired. Even when his sister or mum has been out of order to me in the past (minor stuff) he refuses to acknowledge it ever actually happened, let alone side with me. It is only years after an event he might grudgingly admit I had a point.

Oh my DH is beyond bizarre about money. Really truly ludicrous. He is perfect in every other way so I suppose everyone has a downside.

He was just the same, absolutely just the same (my house, my savings, my money) yada yada yada

I said, well matey, you are established because you are older. When I am established I will earn more than you. Look upon it as an investment for your old age.

The argument worked and I held to my side of the bargain but I'm not sure I'm getting the better end of the deal here. I mean, you know, taking all round performance into account.

There are seriously a lot of skinflints out there.

blimey greyday, what IS it about this guy that made you want to marry and have a child with him

You're right and he's clearly trying to divert the issue to become about you rather than him by going off on one about you talking to a friend.

I'd say just remember you don't need to quote other people's arrangements to him. I know you were trying to make him realise what is normal amongst others, but it's not about other people; it's about you, him and your child and what is fair. Don't give him the chance to turn it round to you. TBH he sounds abusive. Keeping you poor when you're not/won't be in a position to earn much if anything, blaming you for talking to others when you want to change things, expecting you to do more housework because you earn less...it's awful.

If this was me I would schedule in that meeting very, very soon.

What I don't get about men like this is why the hell do they get married? If it's so important to them to have 'my house my money' etc. Unless it gives them a power trip to have the little woman as part of that picture. Yuk. I can't respect a man who thinks that way. If you want YOUR stuff, have the courage of your convictions and don't marry.

Nice to know it's not just me then Quattrocentro!

The thing is HonoriaGlossop, I think he has been brought up to have such a high self esteem it has given him a sense of overimportance.

His family value money very highly, therefore as he has it, that's him validated as a person - never mind the lack of personal skills/feelings/empathy.

As long as things are running smoothly enough, he is pleasant. It is when bigger issues arise he falls apart because he doesn't have the skills to deal with it. Plus he hates confrontation.

To paint a picture, he actually comes across as quiet, kind, and sort of bookish to most. (He can be quiet, kind and bookish - just not all the time, to me!!) Everyone thinks he's mild natured, including his own parents. My sister can't believe he is the successful businessman he is because it is so at odds with the quiet Clark Kent type personality he presents. In company he's always gently smiling and self-deprecating and you never quite know what he's thinking.

He is in fact incredibly clever, very scientific and calculating. When he's not annoyed about something he's fine.

dh and i shared the bills etc, even tho he earned more than me, i was never really sure what he did with his money. wasted it i suspect, whereas i quite like to have a nice house etc so my money went on the house.
Go forward a coupla years dh lost his job, i had savings he didnt,he wanted to retrain so i supported him for two years whilst he got his degree and a job .I fell pregnant, i still earn more than dh but OUR money goes on bill savings and dd. We realised how much more we could achieve by being a true partnership .I wish we had worked together earlier, we cetainly would be even better off finsncially now.
We allow ourselves a set amount every month for us ..not much btw, and put the rest away for our family. We are much happier.

hotbot that's a good way of putting it. "how much more we could achieve by being a true partnership".

Greyday you are two clearly intelligent people with loads of skills, I bet you COULD be a fantastic team. I really do wish you luck and hope he shapes up!

Right, so showing him this thread to back you up is probably not a good idea then! "look darling. 90 or so people think you're a miserly skinflint with control issues!"

I must be hormonal as this thread has brought me very close to tears. I really feel for you, and some of the other ladies on here.

He's taking complete advantage, either you should have a more old fashioned system - he works, you do babies and housekeeping, or a more modern one - both work, both split things equally according to what you can afford. But this way has you working your arse off both in and out of the house while he has an easy life.

Going to stop now or I'll go on forever as I feel so bad for you and there's nothing I can say that other's haven't said better but please start to get this sorted.

rather than reason with him and end up defending up defending yourself into a corner (this is definitely his aim), you need to tell him what you want and need to happen.

don't give false threats that you won't follow through on, simply state that if your needs and the needs of your child are not met, you will have to rethink your relationship as a whole.

you are being manipulated here, not only by him but the constant pressure from his family to tow this invisible line... stand up for yourself and have faith in yourself.

be calm and write it all down. arrange a time where you won't be interrupted and keep it simple. ask for him not to interrupt you until you are finished and then ask him to reflect on what you have said...reconvene and don't interrupt him and take it from there.

this technique is good when a person has a knack of sidetracking or undermining you.

sorry lots of weird grammar but you get the message