OK, so DH in spare room and we are not talking - help

[greyday]

Sorry for long post. Background is have been with DC for 5 yrs, married for 2. Am currently 5m pg with DC1.

I work hard, full time. DH also works hard, full time but earns 4x what I do. We do not have what you would call an extravagant lifestyle, we go out relatively little, buy things carefully etc etc. DH pays mortgage, I pay bills. We both pay for extras such as takeaways or vets bills. DH will buy bigger things like furniture. I buy more groceries.

We are going on a break in 2 weeks to France. Today whilst out shopping, we are at the checkout in Boots with toiletries - my things, his things and joint things. I said "I'll just get my things out of the basket" and DH immediately has a go as to why I am not getting everything as he has paid for our (cheap) break and lots of other things in the house etc etc. This said loudly in front of all busy queue and checkout girl etc. Looking back I should have just paid for everything automatically but what I didn't realise is that DH had set me a test to see if I would pay for all his and our stuff too, as it turns out he is aggrieved that he pays more.

The argument has continued all the rest of the evening. Despite my trying to reason, it has gone out of all control and has ended up with him saying hurtfully that I could afford nothing if it wasn't for him. I have said back that his own mother could never make any substantial financial contribution of her own either, so if he's calling me, he's calling her too. This was enough to send him off in a fury.

It is true, he does pay for a lot more stuff but then he's always known that I pay what I can and also that I have no hope of matching his salary. I work very hard (two 12 hour days this week alone, involving long travel, despite being pg and feeling shitty I have not had a single day off sick so far for fear of being seen as a slacker). I am not a freeloader and am not a "footballer's wife" type either. On his wage we could afford a house more than twice the value and size of the one we're in, but I am just grateful to have a roof. Its true I couldn't afford a house on my own (maybe a little flat).

I'm not sure how to take it forward. This money matter seems to have got worse since I have become pg. The warning signs have been subtley there for a few months now. I have suggested he puts forward a money plan he would be more comfortable with but he always turns it around and says "No. You put forward a plan that's fair" (this in a sneery tone, not pleasant/positive).

He has to be reminded a lot that I am pg too, ie when I returned from said 12-hour day this week I had stopped to buy dinner on the way home despite being exhausted. I asked DH to put it in the oven and put some water on to boil and he reacted like Kevin the Teenager. I ended up shouting that not only was I pg, I had had a 12 hour day and still found time to remember/buy dinner so the least he could do was stick it in the oven.

I also do most of the cleaning because I can't contribute as much financially as him and in fact there wouldn't be a house to clean if it wasn't for him.

Rant over. Thanks for listening if you're still there.

Yes I think it will be exhausting and upsetting but I think now is the time. You will not be in the right place to do this when the baby is actually here; there'll never be a better time than now IMHO! Certainly not when you're coping with a newborn baby.

Good luck. I'm not going to say "You must do this or that" but surely the very least you need is to jointly own the home you both work to keep, and to have an understanding that you are working as a team in order to bring money into the family; whatever contribution is made should be valued; whether that's a 12 hr day at work or a day spent at home with the baby.

I can't say strongly enough how I think NOW is the time to make him realise that your contribution as a mum ought to be valued and precious to him. There is little I would imagine, that is so miserable as struggling to cope with the demands of new motherhood and feeling agonised with worry that your husband not only doesn't appreciate what you're doing but might even think you are a freeloader or gold-digger....

The thing is, when my going on the mortgage has been touched on before (usually the conversation disintegrates into an argument before anything actually gets agreed), DH has made noises about how much the mortgage is.

Now I know I couldn't afford exactly half a monthly mortgage payment plus half of all the bills plus half of all the food shopping and treats and any new furniture etc. I just don't earn enough. It's almost become the case that when I can afford to pay half of everything, is when I will go on the mortgage. Otherwise it's not fair to DH, to own the house jointly but not to have put joint deposit down or pay half everything.

I am sure that's how he sees it and he is very aggrieved that he should have to share what he's worked hard for me to come along and jump in his boat when he's got it afloat all by himself, as it were. However being without the power to turn back the hands of time(!) I can't make it that I make better career decisions in the past so I earn better now, or that I am there when he was first starting out.

From his point of view it's a simple business calculation: I earn less therefore I should have less. Why should he share legal ownership of his house when I can't afford to pay him half what it's worth?

Anyway - time to hang up the keyboard. Thanks again for listening, and a good night to you all!

How's today?

I have no real advice, other than to say I would be concerned too in your shoes.

If my husband took the same approach there would be no way I could afford to be with him! When we met he had just graduated and I had 2 pt jobs, he then supported me through Uni. We have a joint account, I have an account and cc, he has 2 accs, and cc, we use his acc he gets paid in mainly, he just passes on to me on a weekly basis my part of the budget and that's that.

Any financial decisions are made jointly by us, I haven't worked in this country for years (sahm) but when I did, he didn't tell me what to do with it, any money is the same pot for both of us to access, we just tell each other about when we do need some money so we know how much is left! My earning power is always going to be less than DH but he would never see it that way in what I am entitled to.. we share as we are a team.

Hope you resolve this issue.

I just wonder what marriage means to him? Why did he marry you?

Marriage means you are each other's next of kin.

To be honest I think you need an appointment with a solicitor (or CAB). You need to arm yourself with the facts about what is deemed to belong to who when you're in a marriage.

On here we'll all have our different ways of doing things, but I think you need the facts so that you can be strong when you talk to him.

Personally, I think he sounds a deeply unattractive individual. To me there's nothing so off putting as a mean man. Many of the DHs on here, mine included, work hard for peanuts but would share everything they had or give the shirt off their back if it would help their wives.

I think you deserve better.

Greyday, I think this is a really interesting and very sad/worrying sentence of yours... "Now I know I couldn't afford exactly half a monthly mortgage payment plus half of all the bills plus half of all the food shopping and treats and any new furniture etc. I just don't earn enough. It's almost become the case that when I can afford to pay half of everything, is when I will go on the mortgage. Otherwise it's not fair to DH, to own the house jointly but not to have put joint deposit down or pay half everything."

Going on to the mortgage has absolutely nothing to do with your ability to pay half, or even anything towards it. It has everything to do with partnership, ownership and shared responsibility.

My dh earns considerably more than I do, and therefore he pays considerably more into the mortgage. It's absolutely "fair" that we own the house jointly. After all, we have a dd jointly, run the house jointly, etc. etc. etc.

You need to stop seeing yourself as a second class citizen, simply because you don't contribute as much financially. As a parent, and main carer, your input is enormous.

I really suggest that you consider seeking some kind of couples counselling. His behaviour is unreasonable, unkind, controlling and bullying. It is a form of emotional abuse. Sorry if that seems overly dramatic, but it really is.

Take Honoria's advice please, it is sound. It would also be a good idea if you could start arming yourself with financial information about him wherever you can, so that if you do decide to leave him you will at least have a picture of where his investments are etc - so if you hve a day apart, try and get copies of documents etc. I don't normally advocate sneaking about like this but in your position I think you might have to.

I also agree that he doesn't sound a very nice individual I don't work at all and when I did I earned less than DH. But in fact I control the finances as it works easiest for that way, and there is no question of him owning our house and not me etc. It strikes at the heart of how you see each other as people and how you see your relationship IMO.

Is Relate or similar an option? You could say, realistically "we keep fighting about money, and I'm worried it will only get worse after I have the baby. Let's try to find a way to sort this out, so we can talk about money without arguing."

There are some Relate books that might help, if he can't face a counsellor.

(You not being on the mortgage doesn't change your right to the house, by the way, should the worst happen. It's the marital home, you're married, you own half of it, whether or not you're on the deeds.)

I don't think it's at all weird that you have separate accounts and it always amuses me when people think marriage automatically means one person has a claim on equal shares of the other persons wage.

On the other hand, you have a baby coming soon and I would expect there to be some changes made to bare that new financial drain.

You DO need to sit down and work out a plan for what will happen with finances when the baby is here and it does have to be fair.

Now that you are having a baby which is ging to be his child too you need to get your name on that mortgage. Why not open a joint account into which you both put enough to pay the bills, food bills and mortgage. That's fair and so he shouldn't object. If you are earning enough to get a small flat (or rent one) then surely you are earning enough to pay half a mortgage?

Then you need to sit down and discuss the baby thing and your relationship as this is only going to become worse once the baby is here.

My husband is very angry on your behalf. He says that your partner sounds extremely immature.

When we first got together we earned a similar amount. Our first son was born with a medical condition which meant at the time that I couldn't go back to work after my maternity leave. My dh took up the financial slack. This sort of give and take is all part of normal family life.

Your dh sounds utterly unreasonable in expecting financial 'fairness' when he is unable to be emotionally fair to you. It sounds like he is lacking empathy and emotional intelligence which must make feeling equal in your relationship almost impossible.

I think getting someone impartial to hear out both sides of the argument would be imperative IMO.

I don't know for definite but I would think that having your name on the mortgage is not an issue as you are married.

It sounds like an intolerable situation. Do you love him? Or even like him? Its very important that you don't ruin your life in order to not be embarrassed about how your dh treats you. Often women stay with abusive partners due to the embarrassment of being thought of as a failure in the eyes of their family and friends.

You shouldn't have to be a skivvy to compensate for earning a lower salary. He has not done you a favour by agreeing to marry you. He did not rescue you from a Dickensian workhouse. Does he intend to look after the baby at all after the birth? Are you intending to go back to work? Will he contribute to things the baby needs? Is he contributing to your maternity clothes?

My dh is also a 'catch' financially. However , unlike your dh, he is a catch in every other way too. I gave up work before I was pg with dc1, which was before we moved into the house we own now. I paid the deposit on this house with the profits from the sale of the house I owned before the marriage but I have not contributed a bean since. Every stick of furniture apart from a few inherited things have been bought by dh. Ditto all the food I have eaten in the past 8 years, all my clothes, my car and associated expenses, my cat, our holidays, everything the dcs 'need' and all the bills. It has never occurred to me that he is doing me a favour by this. I am his wife and the mother of his children and he loves us enough to want us to have more than the scraps off his table.

Someone earning more than you does not mean that they can look down on you, sneer at you or treat you like a servant, especially when you are carrying their child. Ask your dh how he would feel if he saw a stranger talking to the person he loves most in the world the way that he talks to you.

Just to add that if he expects you to contribute exactly half financially, does he expect to contribute exactly half in the house and to childcare when your baby is born?
There was an article in the news last year which said IIRC that to pay somebody to do the work of a SAHM would cost about £65k pa. We used this (well, and our own calculations) as a basis for working out our life insurance cover. Maybe he should pay you £50k or so - will he still be earning 4x what you are?
Equating worth with income is sadly common.

I am in shock. He sounds mean and miserly. Not a nice trait. I could not live with someone who was mean.

My DH is a partner in a large accountancy firm and earns a lot. I was a secretary when we met. I moved in with him to his flat. Wasn't on the mortgage and the understanding was that if we split I had no rights to the flat. We then moved overseas for his job. I couldn't work - he supported me. We moved back to the UK and I started working again. It took me abut 6 months to get around to getting a job and it was never an issue. We then sold the flat and bought a house jointly. He paid the mortgage and bills. I can't even remember what agreement we had. Then we got married. Since then we are a family. A unit. What comes into the family financially is OURS.

If your DH was so caught up in 50:50 splits and fairness he should have made sure to marry someone with the same salary as him. He didn't. He chose YOU.

I would agree that you need to have some counselling to move forward. Otherwise you will fight about money forever and you will be belittled at every turn.

I bet he is never first to buy a round of drinks either huh?

Im so cross!!!! I would start researching the best divorve lawyer you can find and still the ungrateful bastard. I HATE ment that think that paid work means more than unpaid work.

I have followed my husbands career for 10 years and feel like I have been overlooked for 10 years. I contributed a huge inheritance (which he promptly lost in a business deal) and have raised 3 kids. I am going back to college full time this month and feel like I am being selfish in asking everyone to contribute with the housework.

I am so so angry for you....

"Why should he share legal ownership of his house when I can't afford to pay him half what it's worth?" because soon you will both be parents and you need to safeguard that child's future.
some useful info here

I am nearing the end of divorcing a man like this. I was forced to pay for all sorts of things in a bouse that I never 'owned', and was not on the deeds. This mean-ness has now backfired on my husband and his dreadful family because if you pay for anything to be done to the house...you are now entitled to a share of that house if you split up.

If you take your mean and controlling husband at his word and pay for something to be done to the house....even a small thing...you do not need to be on the mortgage, deeds, anything.

Play him at his own game....go to a solicitor and find out to what you are entitled....

This is not just mean with money, this is mean-ness of heart and highly controlling. It wears you down in the end, until there is no joy left in life.

Ask him why he is accumulating all this money. What is it for?

I had twenty years of a whole family like this....dreadful. You have to look after yourself. arm yourself with knowledge...knowledge is power!

x

I'm really sorry, I couldn't live like this. I don't think many people could.

I think you need to sit him down and tell him that his behaviour is intolerable, inexcusable and that you will now allow it to continue in this way. That you are willing to look at various different options (whether that be a 'household account' which you both pay into- with him paying a higher % than you because he earns more, or a fully joint account and no separate ones). We have fully joint accounts, but tbh with a man this controlling I would want some or my own money if at all possible.

Outside counselling is a good idea I think for the sake of your marriage but I suspect you'll have to insist on it. Advice from CAB or a solicitor essential so you know what you are entitled to.

your posts have made me so sad for you greyday

this isn't what marriage is supposed to be especially with a child on the way this should be a time when you can relax and think about your future in a positive light
what would your dh do if you didn't want to go back to work after the baby was born?

my dh has always earnt more than me and now I have become a sahm I contribute nothing financially we don't have a joint account but my dh gives me a set amount of cash each month paid into my bank account and then he pays for everything out of his account he would never question what I spend the oney on

you need to sit down and explain exactly what this si doing to you to your dh also tell him about what you feel in relation to the baby arriving
if he still persists in his behaviour I would think seriously about having some couples counselling to try and sort it out as others have suggested
he is controlling you with money and in a very unpleasant way
hope today is better

as for the sulking well I would just ignore him he is an adult not a child

I'm one of those who doesn't get the his money/her money thing in a marriage or relationship with children. I was sole earner for three years. I am the more cautious/astute one financially and I admit it did piss me off on occasion that dh made suggestions of to me inappropriate extravagance, and I probably did ay a couple of times 'look, I've got to earn that, you know'. But we have operated on fully joint accounts for a long time, since before children.

Your h sounds very controlling, and I feel it is sad you have bent over backwards to accommodate his frankly rather odd attitude to money for so long. I know from experience that ole-provider pressure is grim, but he is neither sole provider nor (by the sound of it) under a great deal of pressure financially.

I would not tolerate this - you will soon have the baby and it frightens me somewhat on your behalf. You have excellent advice here. Good luck

oh cripes greyday. One things for sure, you will start to hate him and yourself if you stay with him under these circumstances. Go to CAB/free inital hour with solicitor. Do some research into his assets. I'll be honest with you - it is a bad situation, it is emotional abuse you can divorce him on this alone. Unless he changes you will gradually lose all your self worth maybe even to the point of PND. Please be strong - get advice a.s.ap. All the ladies are shocked by his behaviour.

I would not tell him I was going to see a solicitor I would want to be aware of all his assets before alerting him.

Oh and by the way you need to do this for the sake of your baby - his/her future secuity - dont feel bad about being slightly 'sneaky'.

If he was my husband, I would be squirreling away whatever money I could, because you can guarantee that when you divorce (which you will unless he changes, no-one can put up with what you are for ever) he will have hidden his money away and work his arse off to make sure you get nothing. You will take maternity leave and then you will either:

-stay at home, in which case you will have no earning, annoy him even more and struggle to keep up
-go back to work and probably be expected to pay for childcare out of your own earnings and have nothing left at the end of the month.

Maybe you should suggest that he stays at home with the baby whilst you get back to work and concentrate on increasing your earning power?

I hate it when I hear these tales on MN, before you know it you will have a baby and you will be on here, talking about how you have to pay for all the babies stuff, nappies, clothes, as if the baby is nothing to do with him....