"But we took you to stately homes" - Part 4

[oneplusone]

Can't beleive we're onto part 4, although i can't see this thread ever dying.

I was just reading through past posts to try and catch up on the months i have missed and something somebody said has triggered something for me. I know my mother didn't bond with me or love me and i think part of the reason why was because she thought i took after my dad whom she hates (although she is too gutless to leave him). I remember when i was young her saying things like my hair was like my dad's but she wouldn't say it an affectionate way, but quite a venomous way and it always made me feel uncomfortable when she said that but i must have been too young to figure out why.

The more i realise about my mother the more i despise and hate her. I remember she used to play hide and seek with me when i was very young, about 3. Only she would 'really' hide in a place i would never be able to find her. I remember crying and feeling completely distressed one time as i thought she had gone and left me alone at home. It was only after i had been crying for some time that she jumped out laughing from her hiding place. What a nasty, cruel, ugly piece of work and she parades around looking as if butter wouldn't melt and she has a lot of people fooled including my 2 sisters. I know my dad can see her for what she is which is why she hates him and i can see her true colours too which is why i hate her.

I know inside she is deeply insecure, lacks intelligence, strength and integrity. I have witnessed her lie, manipulate and cheat to get what she wants and the people to whom she lies and those who she manipulates are us, her own family. I just can't beleive my sisters cannot see through her, they are totally blind and deaf to her true character and have completely fallen for the victim role she has carved out for herself.

Cutting off my parents was the best thing i ever did and i have realised i need to set some boundaries with my sisters, my last remaining friend and even DH. How to do that is another thing, something completely new to me.

Hi Ally,

Re your comments to me:-

"Attila, I get the feeling that your at a sticking point...you've had it with them...but going to do....??? what? Live well and to hell with them or confront them? Not that I suspect they would notice the fact you have feelings if you confronted them with them. Are you okay now you have vented or do you want to do more?"

I'm going to do both!. However, confronting them won't probably do an awful lot of good; I don't think what I say will really sink in.

Am in good place at present and it is partly thanks to you.

Attila x

I was just thinking after reading some of the recent posts about receiving a phone call (Sakura), having to do the Christmas visits (Psycho) etc. Maybe you have to allow yourself a day of feeling depressed, not doing the housework, drinking some wine after these situations? Seeing it as a reward for having to go through something you don't really want to go through?

I guess it is different when it is something you are not expecting the (phone call) or something you know you have to do out of obligation (the visits).

With my toxic MIL, when we have to visit, I feel like crap for days before it, full of apprehension. I hate going there, all the falseness and her acting like she has the monolopy on perfect families. Especially because she knows a little bit of my situation (which I regret) and uses it to constantly make stealthy comments that compare her narcissistic perfection to my families dysfunction in a really patronising way. I resent going there and only do it for my DH and because he supports me completely and knows what she is like. If she knew that I knew some of the things she thinks DH hasn't told me, she'd soon shut up that's for sure. I'm just not that low to let her know that I know about her family secrets. Maybe I get some sense of power knowing what I know about her, I dunno?

When the visits are finished, I feel a huge sense of relief. We get back in the car and I feel myself physically relaxing. My rewards are a "yes, I am going large!" KFC on the way home, then curling up on the sofa with a giant glass of wine and watching some crap on the tv For now, that is the solution for me. Don't know how long that will last, but for now, it's alright.

Thanks Ally90 that was really helpful. I know what you are saying is true. My siblings and I are just tormented by the things that happened. My brother who is eighteen months younger then me particularly.
He slept wih a knife unde his pillow he was so scared but then my dear dad did fracture his skull!
I just hate violence now. I can't even watch eastenders because if I hear people calling out in pain or saying ' no stop' I don't sleep for days.
I swear my childhood is why I feel like a ball of rage inside but am repressed and let people say what they like and do what they want to me on the outside.

Gosh- I find it really hard reading what some of you have been through. It's heratbreaking. My mum and I still have a very toxic relationship. I had to move back in with her when I got pregnant as I got dumped by my partner She has continually had a go at me for not doing teh housework but she expects me to do all the cooking and I have a newborn to look after. Tonight she said. 'You can't even do this properly' when I did the washing up. She STILL tries to play me off with against my dad; she always takes his side and cannot stand on her own two feet. It is pathetic. I'm not saying taht I don't contribute but she winds me up so much I just end up being a cow to her. She is in a mood because dd and I are moving into our own house tomorrow (phew) and she won't have the same control over us anymore.

Posh - good on you for moving out! Least then you do your dishes how you like

trouble is - i feel so guilty. she was in tears brecause she wont see dd everyday. the main reason im going is because she cant stand the mess that accompanies a baby

Well, you're in a no win situation. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I was being light hearted with my last comment, I know it must be really hard for you and what you don't need is to be made to feel guilty for branching out on your own.

Maybe given time, she will fit into your new independence and become less dependent on you and DD? You were probably her 'project' (for want of a better word, sorry) and now she will have to find other ways of filling the time. Maybe your relationship will improve when you're not living together in such close quarters? She can slot into a more proper 'granny' type role? Are you moving far away?

holy, I like the idea of taking a day out to 'get over' the visit, phonecall etc. makes sense, and for me, would probably help me more, just being able to appreciate my happy house.

I have to say, I have done that today, to calm down after yesterday. DD1 has really been quite sweet.....she declared yesterday her worst ever with aunty (aunty really makes it clear that she does not care for DD1), and so she kind of understands more of what is going on.

one thing.........aunty thinks DD2 is 'the bees knees'.......she wants to take her camoing, and have her over to stay. ONLY DD2 I have to say......she only ever asks for DD2. so far, so good......we have always managed to think of excuses, but she went on about it all again yesterday, and when DD2 said that she might if DD1 could come too, aunty got all 'cats bum' face.

take it thats a NO then

argh......

oh, and to add to yet more joy.......tis my mothers 60th birthday this year, and I have been informed today that I need to sort out a special day for her for me and my brother to do with her. ((OH.MY.GOD))

I know I don't drop in here very often but I thought I would give an update. I also wanted to say I am very thankful for the support of everyone on here as it has literally changed my life.

I know some of you know the problems I have been having with my family. But thanks to the help I have gotten on here and in RL I am managing to escape and to be able to get back in control of my life for the first time.

I (fingers crossed) should be moving in under 2 weeks and today we saw my parents to discuss it with them. They are not happy, but it went much better than I hoped as they have actually accepted it. They are still claiming we are screwing them over but I can deal with that. But they did actually say without prompting that this move would be the best for us - which they have never admitted before and have always said what big problems it would cause for them and how we wouldn't be able to count on their support and what a truly terrible mistake it would be. I think they have realised that they have to let me go. They were still incrediably angry and pissed off but they realise that we are doing what we want now and living our own lives.

I am sad that I don't have the family I thought I had, but the idea that in less than 2 weeks I will be rid of this house and somewhere I will feel safe and out of their control is amazing - I still don't quite beleive it. I won't be looking over my shoulder all the time (literally as well as metaphorically) and I hope the constant paranoia that I have had since childhood will start to lessen. Apparently according to one of the books I read that is quite common when you have controlling parents.

Of course I am convinced that something will go wrong, but the worst is that we would ahve to find somewhere else to live, and we could do that.

Dp is amazing (he is doing all the packing as that is something I can't cope with - I deal with all the financial/paperwork/organising) and he is my rock. I have realised in RL that I can tell people what is going on and instead of condoning me they offer me help and support. I have been overwhelmed by the amount of RL support I have received and it has shown me I am never alone. THere are people who care for me and will do anything for me even when my family don't. It has shown me that far from being a victim and unlucky I am hugely lucky and blessed.

And I am really looking forward to 2009. This time last year I felt trapped in my life with no way out and I felt so awful and that I was staying alive to bring up my ds. I was surviving day to day.

But now I actually have a life before me. With my family at arms length where I am in control of contact. I can choose what happens in my life. And I have a great support network around me. Being on MN helped me realise what the problem was, gave me the support to accept it, and made me reach out into RL and tell people what was happening.

And the biggest thing is for the first time in my life I feel like a grown up and that I can sort out a house move/run a household/sort out bills etc. I no longer believe what they have always told me.

I am really looking forward to this year. I can do this. I finally believe that

So thanks.

Armadillo, can't write much cos must go to bed, but your news is bloody brilliant! Good luck with everything. You are proving yourself to yourself with every little thing you do and have been very strong.

Ally, thanks for the "hi".
I'm doing ok. DD is out with DH at MIL's as its a bank holiday here today.
Baby is ok so far (still only 4 months) Pregnancy time DRAGS doesn't it. How far are you now? Can't be that long can it?

I derive a lot of strength from my work (which is translating very part time) I feel that its something constant in my life and something that I'm good at that my mother or MIL, or even DH in an argument, can'T take away from me. I have to be careful not to let my identity get too tied up in my work though because imagine if the work dried up...

I can't get him out of my head. I am going to cry all over again.

What if there is a reason I can'rt get him out of my head? I know I love my husband but I can't stop thinking about this other man, what night have been, whta might be in the future, this is all too hard.

I can't stop thinking about him

there always seems more to be said

There have been a lot of new posts on here since the last time i logged on which was only a few days ago. Will have to come back and read through properly when i have more time.

But just wanted to say hello and welcome to all the new posters, am glad you have found this thread, am sure it will help you.

AN, thank you for your kind words. I am feeling so different. It feels not so much like I have fallen in love with DH all over again, but more like I have suddenly realised that after years of me loving him, but always thinking that my love was unrequited and that DH (or anyone else for that matter) couldn't possibly love me because I was not good enough (ie the message that had been drummed into me all my life by my parents), that in actual fact DH does actually truly love me.

I have to keep pinching myself to remind myself that this is real and not a dream and i get a thrill down my spine everytime i find myself feeling a little down and then suddenly remember that DH loves me!

I read about 'survivors' who tend to believe in 'all or nothing' type of feelings and I realise now that is exactly what I have been doing. I wanted to believe that DH and my sisters loved me and there was lots to show that they did. But there were also things they had said and done which had been hurtful/inconsiderate/uncaring etc and I, until now, had taken this to mean that they didn't really love me. But somehow I have now been able to see and really believe that these people do love me despite the negative behaviour. And this has gone a long way towards filling the void inside me that you have talked about. I realise now that their occasional negative behaviour towards me does not mean they do not love me, but is simply because they are human and imperfect and can crack under pressure/strain. I realise now the important thing is that if people do hurt you they acknowledge this and feel and say sorry, not that they never hurt you, as this would be impossible. An obvious truth but something i am only just realising for myself.

I think the biggest shift has been inside my head; I now believe I am a loveable person whereas before, without realising it, i must have deep down believed i was not worth loving and nobody could possibly genuinely love me. Which is why i refused to believe DH when he told me he loved me and pointed at all his negative behaviour towards me as proof.

I have felt for a long time that I would die young and I am fairly close to the age I thought it would be.

I feel so at the moment that I am actually wondering if I might die of a broken heart.

OnePlusOne, your post is so very positive and I feel there are some really important words in there that I want to think about for a few days. You know when people sometimes say the same thing but in different words but there is something about the words they use which make you understand and the answers click into place. I feel like I'm going to have some kind of 'enlightenment' prompted by your post!

NAB, I can see you are in so much pain and I'm sorry. So much has happened recently that I don't think now is a good time for you to make a decision about whether you really should have gone for it with OM. If this is really what you should do then you will still feel this conviction in say a year's time? Or maybe longer? You don't have to decide now. Give yourself some time to feel more balanced and in less distress!

When I was feeling under intense strain a year and a half/two years ago I had some quite extreme thoughts about what I should do and I am so glad I didn't act on them but let the thoughts 'slide' for a while because now I feel so completely different and can see that I could have done some things that would have been disastrous for my life! I don't want to sound insulting but when you are under as much mental strain as you are at the moment you aren't 'in your right mind' for making life changing decisions. You need to give yourself a break and just try to live for a while and find lots of little things that you feel comforted by a bit until you feel more balanced. Try not to think of the long term for now but about coping from moment to moment and finding some enjoyment from small things.

It doesn't really matter what I want as he won't leave his wife anyway. This happened about 5 years ago but it was all in my head as me and him and had no contact at all.

I feel like I can get through this and then I have a setback again.

I miss him. I want him in my life and that is never going to change.

So, OnePlusOne, to put the things you said into my words to see if I understand it:

When people have an inadequate upbringing they feel unloveable and find it hard to believe anyone could want them.

Then they find someone who loves them and that feels miraculous. But then that person f*s up a bit because they are human and fallible, not because they don't love them, but because they are not perfect.

But because you can't quite believe they would love you anyway, you take this to be proof that they don't and that the impression you got from your childhood was correct. You feel despair and loneliness and a bit silly for thinking someone could love you. You feel angry with them for 'betraying' you and disappointing you and feel scared to trust them anymore.

After that blow to your confidence, you becone hyper sensitive to everything that could be taken as a sign that they don't love you.

The other person starts to get annoyed that they are having to walk on eggshells and there is always something they have done that has pissed you off. They feel not good enough because it seems they can't make you happy.

If I look at the way I treat DH, I can see that I do/have done lots of things that aren't always nice, not because I don't love him, but because I am tired, ill, 'not in my right mind', stressed, rushing, angry because someone else has made me angry, preoccupied with thoughts etc. I have done some things that I consider to be quite bad/very bad and I was able/capable of doing those things even though I loved him at the same time. I am hoping he forgives me. I did those things because I'm not perfect. He is not perfect and he has things in his past which has affected him and his behaviour as an adult. I might have discounted those things before because I considered them to be not as 'bad' as my things but they have still had an effect on him. The most useful thing my birthmother ever said to me, when me and DH were going through a bad time, was "Have you considered that what he did might not have been because of you but because of his own insecurities".

So basically, because of our crap childhoods we are too quick to find signs of people rejecting us. These little signs would be things that normal people would overlook. We have to learn to let little things go and only worry about it if they keep on doing lots of bad things or do a very bad thing that would be obvious to anyone as being bad.

Also, if it is possible to love other people who are not perfect it is possible for people to love you without you having to be perfect.

Nab, when I had a situation similar to yours (but not so bad), I said to Therapist "I miss him". He said "What do you miss?" We eventually worked out that what I missed was my own feeling of being wanted by someone. I felt I couldn't get enough of this feeling after my childhood. This feeling is strongest at the start of a relationship when everything feels so intense, then although your DH still loves you and wants you it doesn't feel so intense as time goes on. This can be disappointing when it is something you crave so much. When someone else gives you this feeling as well it feels so good because you feel you can be wanted, the more people you can get to want you and you feel you can be loved and can feel better about yourself. This feeling can be SO addictive.

But everyone knows this level of intensity in a relationship does not last, so what are your choices. You could keep starting a new relationship every time the intensity fades or keep having affairs. This would be exhausting and you and the other people would keep getting hurt. Or you can somehow become more contented with the long term relationship you have got and try to fill the emotional void in you not by unhealthy behaviours that don't work for you long term anyway but by trying to actively notice and appreciate every little bit of love and affection and connection with other people that you have, notice every bit of kindness and thoughfulness and caring that they show. Notice every moment of connection you feel with every friend. Let all these feelings in. (It does take practice and I am working on it all the time).

Try to 'reprogram' the skewed view of the world your childhood gave you so that you look at the good things the world can give you because you believe you deserve these things as much as anyone else, rather than looking for every sign that you are unworthy because your childhood 'told' you, you were unworthy. It was WRONG! Do you think the others on here deserve less love, appreciation etc than people who happened to have better childhoods just because they were luckier - NO - so apply this to yourself!

I'm getting jumbled up now with my thoughts about your posts and OnePlusOne's but I do think the two are linked! - and probably other people's as well!

Do you feel any of this is true in your situation? I've only gone on about my own experiences but I feel so relieved that I feel better about things now that I want to tell my thoughts to other people.

It is hard as he was always more than just my first boyfriend to me. We would split up but always get back together. We were stopped from getting back together and then once I had been told he was married I had figured I had better get on with my life. It is hard to think I woul dnever have married my DH if I had known my ex wasn't actually married.

Me and DH met 13 years ago today and coinicidently what is for tea is pretty much what we had for lunch that day.

OM hasn't emailed me yesterday or today so I think he really has stopped contact so if I can find a way to stop torturing myself with what ifs, I think we will be fine.

Have to go for DS2 now but be back later.

Thanks guys for listening.

DH and I were really happy and solid before all this and I wouldn't have said there was anything important missing from our relationship. The problem was the one thing I can't get from DH I could get from my ex and I guess that is why he was put on a pedestal.

I think I will be fine. I want him to email me but I also know it isn't the best thing for me as it will set off my messy head/heart feelings again so I hope he doesn't.

What is that one thing you could get from OM but not from DH?

Nothing important in the great scheme of things. I have been a complete idiot. I have had feelings for another man, even if I cna't put them into words, but I never stoppe dloving my DH in all this. I was just reverting back to how I always was when it came to this man. He hasn't replied to any of my other messages and I really hope he doens't. My DH has forgiven me and I really feel I will get through this.

Before I go on about my stuff I want to say thankyou to everyone for their support on here, even if things arent exactly directed at me they still help so much. I know Im not much of a poster, I tell myself I dont have anything worth saying, I guess thats to do with everything else, but I do send you all strength vibes

I find Im still wobbling about in the middle of things, I dont know if I want to completely seperate from my family, I mean I guess when you think about it we are anyway but its so final isnt it. That scares me. I just want to have it all stop hurting!

Ive noted the titles of a couple of books recommended on here and I am about to look at the alice miller website, so thanks for those. I think its time to be pro active, I dont like to make a fuss but I dont think getting over everything is something I can do by myself. I think I will write to my gp and ask if he could arrange counselling for me again. Only problem is who would have the children whilst Im there, its things like this that talk me out of things. Wish me luck with that.

Things Ive had problems with are having such a temper, things have been better since I left home almost 7 years ago but I had one surface the other day. I wreck things completely. When I was young it used to happen all the time, Id break things that meant a lot to me. Looking back Ive realised that whilst it started with frustration - no one listened to me, or tried to understand, I also think it was to punish myself. Id feel devastated for months over what I no longer had and I think I believed that I deserved to feel like that. Losers like me dont derserve nice things, that kind of thing. It didnt get my parents listening to me though, they just used it as ammo - ''why should I get you that for xmas youll only smash it'' etc Id feel bad enough but my episodes would be mentioned all the time and as a source of merriment between my parents and their friends.

I also take critisism badly. Terribly personally and just reinforces how shit I 'know' I am. The other day I gave in a rough copy of some coursework Im currently doing for some feedback. Nothing majorly wrong but a few things I could change, etc. I couldnt believe how crap I felt! Even though its my first piece and overall my tutor said she was very happy.I just focussed on the parts that werent 'right', not that they were even wrong, if that makes sense.