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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

"But we took you to stately homes" - Part 4

1001 replies

oneplusone · 09/08/2008 17:07

Can't beleive we're onto part 4, although i can't see this thread ever dying.

I was just reading through past posts to try and catch up on the months i have missed and something somebody said has triggered something for me. I know my mother didn't bond with me or love me and i think part of the reason why was because she thought i took after my dad whom she hates (although she is too gutless to leave him). I remember when i was young her saying things like my hair was like my dad's but she wouldn't say it an affectionate way, but quite a venomous way and it always made me feel uncomfortable when she said that but i must have been too young to figure out why.

The more i realise about my mother the more i despise and hate her. I remember she used to play hide and seek with me when i was very young, about 3. Only she would 'really' hide in a place i would never be able to find her. I remember crying and feeling completely distressed one time as i thought she had gone and left me alone at home. It was only after i had been crying for some time that she jumped out laughing from her hiding place. What a nasty, cruel, ugly piece of work and she parades around looking as if butter wouldn't melt and she has a lot of people fooled including my 2 sisters. I know my dad can see her for what she is which is why she hates him and i can see her true colours too which is why i hate her.

I know inside she is deeply insecure, lacks intelligence, strength and integrity. I have witnessed her lie, manipulate and cheat to get what she wants and the people to whom she lies and those who she manipulates are us, her own family. I just can't beleive my sisters cannot see through her, they are totally blind and deaf to her true character and have completely fallen for the victim role she has carved out for herself.

Cutting off my parents was the best thing i ever did and i have realised i need to set some boundaries with my sisters, my last remaining friend and even DH. How to do that is another thing, something completely new to me.

OP posts:
prettybutterfly · 10/01/2009 13:27

I wanted to share an excellnt book with you Stately Homers.

It's called "Make Peace with Anyone: Breakthrough Strategies to Quickly End Any Conflict, Feud or Estrangement" by David Lieberman.

www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0312310013

It gives you the techniques to talk to absolutely everyone, however "toxic" you think they are, without losing your temper or being undermined or invalidated or in any way having your mind messed with.

It's truly excellent. Very sane. I can't recommend it enough.

prettybutterfly · 10/01/2009 13:35

I read it yesteday in the day and emailed my mum last night using the techniques in the book. Today I got a reply from her which is the most sensible, sane, adult communication I have EVER had from her. In 35 years. It's staggeringly and stunningly good.

Baby steps, obviously, but what a great start.

NAB3lovelychildren · 10/01/2009 17:38

Thank you Ally9. I honestly don't feel like I am an inspiration though a long time friend did tell me I was many years ago. I suppose I don't feel it as I am doing it purely for selfish reasons as I want closure.

I think if he does ignore the letter then we will have to proceed to court straight away but I am not sure.

Great news today that our solicitor is now willing to act for us on a no win no fee basis as our barrister is. This is a great help as my husband has already paid out thousands to do this. Our barrister is the top man in his field and the bill for 3 hours with him and the same with the solicitor has just come in at over £2000.

A bit of me feels sad that if he has grandchildren and son/daughter in laws their lives are going to be shattered by what I am doing. I still don't know if they know he really did abuse me as they accused me of all sorts.

NAB3lovelychildren · 10/01/2009 17:44

Sometimes I can't believe I am still alive (probably because I am terrified of dying) after all the things I went through as a child, and be as sane (though I am not really as have long term depression) as I am.
Sometimes I just want to cry for what I have had done to me. I want to cry for the little girl I was and sometimed I can't believe it was all me. I can't believe it all happened to me. I won't believe it as then I have to accept it was all true.

Just thinking aloud. Sure not making any sense.

ActingNormal · 10/01/2009 19:46

NAB, you sound traumatised if your mind is refusing to believe that it really happened to YOU. I don't think you will get over it until you DO admit to yourself and say out loud that it was real and really happened to you. You SO need therapy. Are you getting some?

I know admitting/accepting it is the hardest thing in the world and that you have to do it when you are ready and at a stage in your life when you can cope with extra upheaval and 'madness' (because it gets worse before it gets better) and I shouldn't be 'nagging' you, sorry, I just really want to see you 'helped'.

ActingNormal · 10/01/2009 20:00

PrettyButterfly, the book sounds good, but I'm feeling past wanting to end the estrangement. I want the estrangement now, it makes me feel better now. Surely it is unhealthy to try to reconcile with people who make you have negative feelings? (if you know this is never going to change).

I don't even want to talk about any of it to any of them anymore and if they brought it up I think I would say I no longer want to talk about it. A few years back I wanted them to want more contact with me and to instigate more contact with me and I wanted to talk about what happened and I wanted them to show they were sorry and that they understood and I wanted them to explain their actions, I REALLY wanted those things and they disappointed me over and over again until it was one too many times and the relationship was broken irreparably. Now I just don't want any of it and feel I would reject it if they tried. I feel they rejected me by their actions/lack of actions and then I rejected them back.

I hope it doesn't come accross that I'm having a go at you because I'm not! I'm grateful for your post because the thoughts I've had about it clarify my feelings.

ActingNormal · 10/01/2009 20:02

...it might be helpful for my marriage and friendships though! Not that they are in a dire state, but things can always be improved on!

ActingNormal · 10/01/2009 20:49

Sakura/OnePlusOne, it is really interesting to hear more than one person talking about things you dont' want in your life causing depression and lack of energy. When more than one person says it and I think it too it just seems more and more true.

Sakura, the way you described your depression sounds so very familiar to how I used to feel all the time (for years) and now just have on the odd few days. I think it has been easing since I started to feel I was getting more and more control in relationships where I felt the other people had control over me.

The depression also seemed to ease from when I met a friend of mine who is very demanding and insecure and wants constant contact for reassurance that I still like her and want to see her and be her friend. At times she has been very hard work and it can get irritating when someone is constantly asking you if you still like them or asking if you are sure they haven't annoyed you. But I stuck with the friendship because I found it very reassuring and comforting myself and she has relaxed more and more with me and is more fun than hard work now.

Some people, including Therapist have questioned whether the friendship is healthy because at times they have thought I was being used (because I have done a lot for her practically and she hasn't done much for me in this way). But she has somehow done a lot for me emotionally.

I feel more secure because I've got someone who never gets fed up of me, never sees me as 'getting in the way' or a 'hindrance' or a 'nuisance' or 'annoyance' to be just tolerated (ways people have made me feel during childhood). I feel wanted, even desperately wanted, and it is something I crave. She seems to admire me rather than being indifferent to me (another feeling from childhood). She is always there for me and I can contact her whenever I want and she is happy to hear from me. I'm reassured every day, usually several times a day, that she still wants me because that is how often we have contact, either face to face, on Facebook, on the phone or via text messages. She seems to really help to fill the void I feel in myself.

My friend was also rejected by her birth parents, parented neglectfully/abusively by her adoptive parents then rejected by them as well and rejected by the whole extended family who are too scared of key people's 'wrath' if they have contact with her. She is an inspiration in her strength despite all that to be a good mother herself and to work at making friends and getting people into her life. She is very well presented and attractive and really 'gets on with it' and grabs opportunities to connect with people.

She is incredibly brave. Eg. she went to a family funeral recently (not that they wanted her there) and faced them all and their nasty glares etc with dignity. She cried for her dead relative (one that had shown a small amount of interest in her once) and her birthmother, birthfather, and adoptive parents completely ignored her and acted like she wasn't there rather than offering her any comfort. She could have left but she stayed til the end to show her respect to her dead relative.

She had no role models for any type of relationships and wasn't really allowed to have any friends as a child or hardly allowed to leave the house which is why she can come accross as 'strange' because she is still learning what is normal. She says she didn't even know how to cuddle her children when she first had them.

I feel that her situation and mental state are 'worse' than mine in many ways but I understand/empathise with her and she understands exactly what I'm talking about when I talk about my stuff and can feel how I feel because she has experienced it herself. She doesn't always say the right things but I can feel that she understands and feels for me.

Because she knows how awful rejection feels she is incredibly careful not to do anything rejecting towards anyone else (I am careful about this too). I have real faith that she will never drop me because someone 'better' has come along (this has happened to me a lot in the past and is something I really fear - people leaving me, and because I am not 'good enough'). She makes me feel important (another thing I crave) and I can have an important place in her life almost beyond friendship because she has no family (that she has any positive contact with) so I am a bit in this role. With other friendships I have felt that they found me 'too much' and too intense and didn't want to see me too often. Most people don't want this type of unnaturally close friendship but it really seems to help me.

Therapist said to me the other day that family is not just people who are related to you by blood or who brought you up. He said if these people are no good for you, you shouldn't have to feel you must keep them in your life just because our society finds it so shocking if you reject your parents. Just by the fact that they are parents doesn't automatically make them good people who are good for you to be around. He said that you should go out and find people who can fulfil the roles of family in your life and it doesn't matter if they are 'blood' or not, they can become your family.

I didn't realise I was going to go on so much about my friend! But I feel she was the start of breaking me out of my depression then the therapy and letter writing and setting of what boundaries I want with contact with family etc have helped on top of that.

Dragonfly74 · 10/01/2009 21:14

Sorry this is going to be long.
I don't even really know where to start but I need to get all this off my chest. I'm just so confused and scared for what the future might be.

When I was growing up I always wondered what other peoples home lives were like because I suspected that mine wasn't "normal". My earliest memory was the sad death of my 7 month old brother to cot death I was 4 at the time, that in itself is unfortunately not that unusual but my mums behaviour afterwards was worrying. Yes there were times when I felt loved but also times when I felt scared of her, her temper would flare at the smallest thing and if I was in the way I would take the full force of her rage. I wasn't beaten but I remember being slapped without much of a reason for it on many occasions. As I grew up I would try to dodge the slaps but if she couldn't hit my legs which was her usual place to hit me she would hit me round the head or face and she wasn't happy with just hitting me once she would continue until her anger had gone.

It is only recently since having children of my own that I have questioned her behaviour and her parenting. I know things were hard for mum my dad wasn't around much but when I think about it now he probably just wanted to get out of her way because she used to pick fights with him and I remember dad having to restrain mum to stop her from hitting him. When they had rows no matter what time of day or night she would put me and my sibs into our coats and say "Right i'm going are you coming with me or staying with him" What a choice for a child!! Eventually when I was 15 mum and dad split and dad disappeared out of our lives by this time I had 2 brothers and a sister.

After dad left mum started going out quite a lot, she used to leave me to look after my brothers who were 11 (twins) and my sister 4, she used to bring men back, me and my sibs used to regularly come downstairs in the morning to find a complete stranger in the lounge. When I started work she carried on the same bringing men back and having music blaring downstairs below my bedroom when I had to be up early to start work, When I had a go at her about it she would say "I'm the adult this is my house I can do what I like", I felt like I was the adult and she was the child. She went on holiday for 2 weeks when I was 16 and left me to look after the house and my younger sibs. There is so much more I could go into but I would be here all night.

As weird as it sounds I thought I was ok with all of this until about a year ago, Its like I pushed it all to the back of my mind but me and my brothers have been talking about mum and some of the things they've told me is shocking, they have said she used to give them asprin before bed to make sure they were well for school the next day so as not to ruin any plans that she had. This may all seem really trivial compared to what some of you have been through and as I say there is much more to this but I would be here all night.

At the age of 35 I have realised that I haven't respected my mother all these years out of love it has been out of fear, We are currently not speaking because of something that happened over christmas I would love to phone her and make things right but you can't reason with her and she's never wrong.

Even after all that i've been through I feel that I am constantly seeking my mums approval and I want her to be proud of the person I've become but she is judgmental and opinionated.

And I am so frightened that I will become her and I don't want my children to feel like I did growing up, I have suffered from depression from the age of 17 and I have my mums temper. I know now that mum maybe should of had counselling when my brother died I am going to get some for myself. But is it unhealthy for me to have a relationship with mum after my councelling??
I feel so sad that i've gone beyond tears. Unlike some people on this thread that have decided to cut all ties with their parents I really don't want to, I love my mum and I feel sad for her, I wish I could talk to her about my feelings
Sorry for rambling my head is a mess at the minute.

NAB3lovelychildren · 10/01/2009 21:23

I am too scared to admit that it really did happen.

I think the other day when I got very teary at the solicitors about it was the first time I have ever cried about it I think. In 22 years.

prettybutterfly · 10/01/2009 21:26

Actingnormal, I totally understand that and completely respect the fact that your situation is different to mine. I couldn't possibly take offence! You know your business, and Lieberman's absolutely clear on the desirability of abandoning relationships which can't be healed.

I'm just glad I read the book because I think ALL my relationships will benefit.

I've been worrying lately that I'd 'inherited' my mother's appalling communication skills, and read it largely as a crash course in not being like her. I am SO glad I did.

xPB

Sakura · 11/01/2009 06:47

ActingNormal,
I think you hit the nail on the head about depression when you said that the more control you have over your life, the more it eases. IMO lack of control in one's life is the crux of depression. The main source.

I read the depressed threads a while ago and one person there was saying how she was feeling low etc. Everyone asked if she'd taken her medication. She said yes she had, then the conversation turned to medication for a while. THEN, she threw in the conversation that her MIL had taken her son out for the day (not sure how old the boy was) and that she wanted him back.
MY GOD, I thought. THAT is why you're depressed. If you don't take control over your life and you let people have control over you- the kind who will take your own child away from you when you don't want them to, then the depression will never lift. You can't take meds to mask the depression while at the same time letting other people: parents, in-laws, husband dictate how your life is going to be run!
Although, as we all know, setting boundaries with others is much much harder than it seems. But it seems to me that if people had an awareness of how a lack of control over their life affects them, it would help improve their lives a lot.

Sakura · 11/01/2009 06:54

Dragonfly,
I think this thread will help of you just post to offload your emotions. You know what I'm going to say, though. I think that in general the things your mother has done can be forgiven, especially considering the cot-death HOWEVER the sentence that stood out for me is the one where you said she can never be reasoned with and is always right. THis is much more worrying than her flaring up at you. This tells you that she will never ever change. She will never admit any wrongdoing whatsoever. It will always be you who is flawed and wrong.
Accepting that this is how she thinks is a really important step towards your own healing. But if she hasn't looked at things from your POV before now then I suspect she will never see it your way. She hasn't the ability to. You can start setting up boundaries to protect yourself, if you like. Some of us find any contact altogether too painful and cut contact completely.

poshsinglemum · 11/01/2009 09:07

I've been reading this thread with great interest. I've had a very rocky relationship with my mum. When I was born she had severe post natal depression and then when my sister was born she had it severely again. She used this as an excuse to smack me around. I remember being sick on the carpet once and she rubbed my face in it. She still 'comes at me' aggressively now very occasionally when I rub her up the wrong way. Now I think she is too afraid to hit me as she is much more frail than me. I used to come downstairs when I was little and she used to tell me how suicidal she was. She was a very poorly lady. We do get on better now since the birth of dd and I really do love her but I feel so guilty about everything. I have real trouble forming relationships. A lot of people here are estranged from their parents and I guess that is understandable but I don't want to be estranged. I just want to forgive and evolve. I'm finding it so hard to forgive. I would be so gutte dif dd and me had the same type of relationship as my mum and me.

Ally90 · 11/01/2009 09:14

Attila, I get the feeling that your at a sticking point...you've had it with them...but going to do....??? what? Live well and to hell with them or confront them? Not that I suspect they would notice the fact you have feelings if you confronted them with them. Are you okay now you have vented or do you want to do more?

Nab, good news re no win no fee, that will help things...bill was how much!!! As for his family...that is not your responsibility. His actions were his responsibility and as he was an adult when he abused you as a dependant child, he can be adult enough to take the consequences of his behaviour and the fall out from that. It is NOT your responsibility.

Sakura, hows the pregnancy going? Coping okay? Sorry to hear you had a call from your mother at her 'get a pen and paper' ...have you caller id or would a new number be possible? ie mobile or landline for family and mobile/landline for friends? That's what I did, 'friends' mobile went everywhere with me...my 'family' mobile stayed in a drawer at home (and has stayed there for about 3.5 years now). How are you feeling now?

Dragonfly,

"And I am so frightened that I will become her and I don't want my children to feel like I did growing up, I have suffered from depression from the age of 17 and I have my mums temper. I know now that mum maybe should of had counselling when my brother died I am going to get some for myself. But is it unhealthy for me to have a relationship with mum after my councelling??
I feel so sad that i've gone beyond tears. Unlike some people on this thread that have decided to cut all ties with their parents I really don't want to, I love my mum and I feel sad for her, I wish I could talk to her about my feelings"

Councelling will change you, they will validate your experiences and teach you healthy behaviour/boundries, which will lead to change in all your relationships, because you will no longer take that back handed comment/face pulling/talking behind back etc. This could lead to a better relationship with your mum, or could lead to estrangement at the other extreme...of course this is all your choice...you don't have to break contact at all...your life and your decisions always remain your own in councelling. They just support you in what you do and how to change things.

As for your children, you have a role model of how not to behave...now try to find a positive one, on tv, in a book, in rl, to not copy exactly but get ideas from...your temper is not inherited I guess, so much as learnt from your mother...so therefore it can be unlearnt. Its a habit that make take a few months of concerted effort from you to stop. And you can do it We all have control over how to react...

got to go now

hi to all xx

Ally90 · 11/01/2009 09:17

Poshsinglemum...got seconds to post!

You don't have to estrange from parents to be here...just share your experiences and get what you can to improve things from this thread...its support for whatever you choose is best for you

Sounds horrendeous the things you have said...awful for a child to deal with.

Forgiveness is not neccessary and only really comes about when the other person is ready to acknowledge what they did is wrong and discuss it with you...don't feel you have to forgive, it could cover over alot of feelings that should be expressed for you to 'get better'...

got to go dd crying!

preggydonuts · 11/01/2009 09:43

I have just read this thread.
Some people have alot to answer for.
My father is a paranoid schizophrenic and made my childhood hell. I am still scared of him and flinch when I walk past him although really we have no relationship to speak of.
He has hit him, screamed at me, called me horrible names, threatened to kill me, repeatedly tried to top himself and then proceed to 'tell' us what he had done, stolen from me...... I could go on.
He beat my mother but she has only just divorced him. Domestic violence ok infidelity not apparently.
My xdh thinks a lot of the problems Ihave are down to my childhood. An I am not half as messed up as my siblings.
Thing is I go to counselling and feel a. that I am betraying him and b. that if I start I will cry and never stop.

NAB3lovelychildren · 11/01/2009 10:06

I have posted a lot in relationships as I feel I have recently had an emotional affair with my first boyfriend.

We were 15 when we met, together on and off for 3 years, break for 3 years and then a fling. A friend encouraged me to write and say he had hurt me too much and didn't exist to me anymore. All the years later I have regretted it.

Was told he was married and cried all day.

Before Christmas we made contact and picked up where we left off. I never knew he cared as much as he did. I never knew I was the love of his life. I never knew he was a mess after then and he has thought about me for years. He wasn't married. Someone told me to try and protect me from being hurt again and they refused my contact details when he asked for them.

He was the first person EVER in my life to care. There has been many many tears. At first it was just getting things off our chests, then it was flirting, then it was permanently thinking about him, wanting to sleep with him, withdrawing from my husband, planning when we could meet, texts. emails, phonecalls, tears. He said things. Was honest about never leaving his wife but gave me hope we would see each other. Then he emailed to say he can't sneak around anymore but if he was ever free I would be his first call. I cried and cried and felt a physical pain that my heart was actually breaking.

I emailed to say I was seeing the barrister and he emailed back to say when he would be in line. We msn'd then again the next day where he told me it had to stop as he couldn't live with the guilt of talking to me. We talked. I cried. It is all over.

I am so sad and angry. He meant more than the world to me and I will miss him forever.

I am taking the kids swimming but have posted this here on Ally's advice as I know people on here understand and aren't quite as judgemental as they undertand the background.

Hope everyone is okay and I will be back later.

psychomum5 · 11/01/2009 10:13

not been here since the very first thread, but am coming here again now, finally, as I am in need of offloading properly!

have had lots of aunty visits this week.......her to me as my brother came down to visit, and he feels similar so did not want to go to her house with his wife and DD alone, prefered us to 'do it together' (IYGWIM), and then yesterday I had to go over with the children for the annual 'she buys them clothes with her xmas money for them'.

I know I should have to go shopping with her, but she insists on wanting to buy the children something, just will not relinquish any control to me.......she won;t even let me have any of the reciepts for the clothing she buys, so we cannot return anything without her inspecting the reason why first (ie, it has to be broken/damaged/too small for me to be allowed to exchange, and she then has to come with me again......there is no going, buying, and then changing to something they REALLY want the following day).

plus all the digs, the making it obvious which of my children she prefers, the control over the food........everything really, and if I rant about it all I won;t make any sense.

one thing tho.......she really has a very warped memory of my childhood and what really went on. I know this is common in parents like this, but seriously......I come away feeling as tho she thinks I make it all up for effect.....and why?? why would I make things up like that......I must have a warped imagination to make up certain stuff!

argh

Ally90 · 11/01/2009 10:55

Preggydonuts, a) he betrayed you as a child b) physiologically speaking you can only cry for only 20 minutes at a time...so your body will make you stop...(so my councellor told me when I said the same thing). Your childhood sounds, quite frankly, terrifying. It is inevitable the relationship with your father/mother/siblings will affect all the relationships you have after that...see those first basic relationships as the 'templates' for future ones, what to expect from people, how you react to their behaviour, how you may even provoke that behaviour in others (subconciously) so the same pattern continues...but to be here on this thread you have insight which means you should be okay in the long term something I doubt your father has... judging by what you have put here. And guilt at talking about abuse is very common and normal. You just need to 'normalise' your view of the world to realise the feeling of betrayal is misplaced...your father as an adult and parent was responsible for his behaviour, not you and you have every right to seek help away from him to get better.

Nab, glad you posted

Psycho, welcome back was thinking of posting a thread to you and two others the other day to see if I could get you on...

got to go again and I really should not be here but can't keep away...!

psychomum5 · 11/01/2009 11:20

thankyou ally.

I have pndered for a while, but I guessed that half the time, I keep hoping that it is 'not that bad' IYGWIM, and so I can pretend it never happened. and then I get e phonecall and it all starts up again.

DD1 and DD however yesterday were pretty upset for me and what my childhood must have been like......we did the shopping with aunty, and then she insisted we go back to hers for food, which enlightened them far more than normal.......we rarely actually all go to her house, I prefer being out somewhere so that the children are occupied better. yeserday opened their eyes a little more, but made me very by the time I got home to DH.

he had wine waiting for me

psychomum5 · 11/01/2009 11:21

pondered for a whole about comeing back here that is (sorry......my brain went to fast for my fingers to keep up.

oh, and it was DD1 and DD2

Dragonfly74 · 11/01/2009 12:10

sakura I can totally relate to what you said here.
Even when I wasn't living at home, when my mother was in my life I would take to my bed all day, sometimes for days. I kind of knew I was depressed, but I thought it was normal. I couldn'T function regarding housework and sometimes even regarding personal hygene (laundry, fresh socks etc). This was terrible for me because I am a perfectionist. Even at my lowest point i always made sure I had clean hair and make-up on thought. Maybe that gave me some sense of control (like anorexics!).

Too this day I struggle with day to day tasks like housework and bill paying, as you said "Grown up tasks".
Could this be because of my depression and my mothers influence over me.
I have never been able to make sense of why i'm like this and although the house is always a tip I hate it looking that way and want it to be tidy but can't seem to tackle it or when I do its a half hearted effort.
I also always at my lowest point try to make sure that I look my best maybe as you mentioned it is some form of control.

Dragonfly74 · 11/01/2009 12:33

Since me leaving home at 22 me and mum haven't argued BUT it has been a difficult relationship for me because the only reason we haven't argued is because I have either agreed with her for a quiet life or just ignored her.
Over the years she has criticized my financial decisions, Any partners that I have had have never been good enough. She complains that I live to far away (30 miles),
She glares at me and DH if we tell off our DS. She always has some negative comment to make about my DH saying that he was the reason I moved so far away, The list goes on and on but basically I've come to realise that mum is a bit of a control freak.

Over christmas mum did something that i'm disgusted with and TBH I'm ashamed of her, I'm not going to give details because its embarrassing but for the first time ever I said what I think and she has behaved in just the way I thought she would, I am getting the silent treatment, she has phoned once since this all happened because it was my birthday but I could tell that she didn't want to talk to me and I could almost hear her blood boiling over the phone.

I expect she is now waiting for me to phone her with an apology, and I have to be honest the silent treatment is getting to me, I would much rather her phone and say what she thinks. I haven't done anything wrong but I'm the one left with the guilty conscience.

NAB3lovelychildren · 11/01/2009 13:31

I have got it into my head it is time I had a conversation with my mother. More for her to listen than for he to talk really but I can't explain why.

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