"But we took you to stately homes" - Part 4

[oneplusone]

Can't beleive we're onto part 4, although i can't see this thread ever dying.

I was just reading through past posts to try and catch up on the months i have missed and something somebody said has triggered something for me. I know my mother didn't bond with me or love me and i think part of the reason why was because she thought i took after my dad whom she hates (although she is too gutless to leave him). I remember when i was young her saying things like my hair was like my dad's but she wouldn't say it an affectionate way, but quite a venomous way and it always made me feel uncomfortable when she said that but i must have been too young to figure out why.

The more i realise about my mother the more i despise and hate her. I remember she used to play hide and seek with me when i was very young, about 3. Only she would 'really' hide in a place i would never be able to find her. I remember crying and feeling completely distressed one time as i thought she had gone and left me alone at home. It was only after i had been crying for some time that she jumped out laughing from her hiding place. What a nasty, cruel, ugly piece of work and she parades around looking as if butter wouldn't melt and she has a lot of people fooled including my 2 sisters. I know my dad can see her for what she is which is why she hates him and i can see her true colours too which is why i hate her.

I know inside she is deeply insecure, lacks intelligence, strength and integrity. I have witnessed her lie, manipulate and cheat to get what she wants and the people to whom she lies and those who she manipulates are us, her own family. I just can't beleive my sisters cannot see through her, they are totally blind and deaf to her true character and have completely fallen for the victim role she has carved out for herself.

Cutting off my parents was the best thing i ever did and i have realised i need to set some boundaries with my sisters, my last remaining friend and even DH. How to do that is another thing, something completely new to me.

Sakura's spot on.

An apology should be the beginning of a healing process, not the end of it.

Thank you all! You are all so right! It makes me laugh when I read my last few posts, how I can change how I feel so quickly!

I was so shocked at first and so happy to have got some feeling out of my mum! So desperately and pitifully grateful! When my dad said in response to my letter, when they first received it, "This is all new to me but I would guess you would say it should not be", I clung to this sentence and interpreted it to mean that he is sorry and he cares about me even though I know it is a very inadequate apology (if it is one at all as he isn't actually directly admitting he was wrong). When I said it last night to DH and he scoffed I realised how indadequate what he had said was and how I had hopefully clung onto it and deluded myself that what my dad had said was worth more than it was.

I realise I am so quick to forgive, at first, because I so want to forgive and want to believe people have the feelings for me that I want them to have. I have done this a few times before and the thought did cross my mind straight after the conversation with my mum, "I feel really happy now but this might be like other times where the next day I feel differently as different aspects of it dawn on me".

It is so pitiful, I think that is the right word, that I feel so unworthy that I have to take what small scraps of positive feeling I can get from people and be really grateful and put up with anything crap that they do and even read more into what people say than is really there just to make myself feel loved and wanted. I wouldn't wish this on any child born, I would say (to other people) that every child deserves to feel important and loved and wanted and equal to everyone else. It's not bloody fair and I know I'm being self pitying but I don't care. It is true what Therapist said, none of it was my fault but I had "bloody bad luck" and I'm pissed off abouut it! I feel 'healthy' saying that.

I am pleased about what I have 'got' out of them but still realise it is not enough and a few words don't suddenly make it all ok. I can see that my parents do think that this is now the end of it and they don't need to do anything else for me. Well that is fine because I don't need them and I will carry on having infrequent and short contact with them because we don't have a proper bond. If they miraculously started communicating with me properly in an emotionally healthy way then maybe I would consider having more contact with them. This is the consequence of their actions and I don't feel guilty anymore because I feel they deserve it.

My DH said another thing I found interesting, that it has always seemed to him that our family talk to each other in riddles, never using direct language to say what we really mean. He has been frustrated with me for not being clear with them which he has seen as me not standing up for myself.

When I think about this I start doubting myself, could it be true that I did not make it clear to my mum what was happening? I can't remember what words I wrote to her in the letter about what my brother was doing at the time when I was a child but I can remember the conversation I had with her about my gf! Could my memory be wrong? I really don't think so but what my mum has said and what DH said about me talking in riddles makes me have a small amount of doubt. I really hate this feeling that I am going mad.

Also when I think about how my parents have always talked in riddles I think it is hard enough as an adult to read into the riddles and work out which bits mean they love us/care about us etc but how on earth could we have done this as children - there is no way we could have! We might be able to 'work out' that they have the right feelings underneath, now, and that makes us feel that we shouldn't be angry with them that we couldn't work this out when we were children. But it is so frustrating and the anger remains unprocessed.

My dad writes 'books' for the family about his memoirs and he wrote one about 'the children', all factual stuff, nothing emotional. When DH's dad saw it he said "Oh your dad loves you very much doesn't he to put all this effort into this book". I felt so frustrated that it looks like they are good parents to other people but they really really really fucked it up and I feel like people who 'know' them would never believe me, so I go through all the pain that I feel on my own and feel it is just me being stupid although I know it is not, it is just that everyone else is fooled by them. It really pisses me off.

I almost wish they had done something more extreme, something that is unmistakeably to other people, abusive, just so that I could say that and feel people would believe me about how bad it was. I know this is wrong and I shouldn't say it when some people have suffered so horribly with worse stuff than me, but I can't help it.

I even feel that my Therapist secretly thinks what happened to me was nothing but is saying all the right things because that is his job. I am sure this is just paranoia because it really feels like he is genuine. It is just hard to trust anyone to believe me now. I suppose if Mr Cynical Logic (my DH) has validated my feelings this is a really good sign.

Ooohh, I so understand what you mean about talking in riddles. It is like I have (should probably say had) this completely different language with my family than I have with everybody else. They always have to read between the lines and analyse everything and turn it into something nasty.

If they (my whole family) do something wrong they can't just say sorry, no, no, no, they have to go on the defensive and you might get a yeah well I might have done that wrong BUT you did something that is far worse and therefore I am okay but you see you, you should be ashamed of yourself and you now owe me big time.

Bla, bla, bla, just ignore me. My little sister thinks that I cut her out of my life, because I said to her that I would prefer if we just kept in contact by email for the time being. I feel slightly guilty, but not as upset that I thought I might.

I feel kind of desperate to make her understand why, and that it has nothing to do with her. I need to find myself without any influence from my family (I can choose whether I read emails and when I read them, and what questions to answer). I have lived for too long not having an opinion of my own, not really knowing what I like, where I would like to go in the world, what I want to get out of life etc. Even the most simple things sometimes, I don't think that my favourite colour is blue I think it might actually be pink and purple, and you know what I am starting to realise that that does not make me a bad person.

AN-I understand what you are saying when you write that;

'... that I feel so unworthy that I have to take what small scraps of positive feeling I can get from people and be really grateful and put up with anything crap that they do and even read more into what people say than is really there just to make myself feel loved and wanted. '

But you see this 'is' changing for you. It did not take you long to realise that your mother's apology wasnt nearly enough and as others have said, just the beginning.

A while ago I dont think you would have come to this conclusion so quickly if at all.
I can hear anger in what you write and that is good.

My dad text me christmas day. The text said 'Happy Christmas x'. I was so bloody happy when I got that text and thanks to your post I know realise why. I took it as an apology and so he really did love me.

Then I thought bloody hell, I am heavily pg, he hasnt spoken to me since November and all he can do is send a damn text to absolve himself. Thst was very new for me to feel that way. I definately think a more healthy way.
The minuite we start raising the bar for ourselves the less we will feel unworthy AN I am sure (((((hug))))

More- We aren't sisters are we? Yes the throw it back in your face stuff. I can so relate to that. You become unable to express anything about their behaviour toward you. It steals your power and turns it back on you doesnt it.
My parents would say '...Well you can talk....you are/did/said x, y and z.
And yes if you dare to challenge or assert a need that is deemed as offensive to them you are cut off. They can all mind read you know. No need to clarify.

hello its me again, sorry for interupting, i hope i am not.
AN i did email you, but if i am honest, after reading through the posts on here that i am slowly catching up on, given that my kids are so demanding at the moment, that i really dont get much time, and when i do, i never really want to think about the bad things, cos sometimes i feel i will crumble, and never recover. what im trying to say, is that this is the best place to talk, as everyone is so very insightful, and its always to good to get different perspectives on things. i will still like to email from time to time, if thats ok? especially if i am feeling like i want to chat, but am feeling too upset to chat here, do you know what i mean? and vise versa, i am always there for you , you know that.
i would really like to come back and chat here too.

oh god, so much has been going on with all of you, i have smiled, cried and spurred you all on, when you are felling positive, yet one thing really puzzles me, we are all the victims of repulsive behaviour, yet we are the ones who suffer.
its seems so unfair.

sakura, your post made me really think. i have told my dad what my pop (gf) did to me, i wrote and told him everything, and was very open and honest in my letter, as you know i never wanted him to know, as i didnt want to hurt him jesus what a joke!!!
i have heard nothing back from him, and am trying to beleive it is because he is devastated that this could happen to one of his daughters, but no, i know the truth, quite frankly he couldnt care less, or even if he did he would never let me know. i ask myself now, would an apology make a difference?? would it take the pain away? i think maybe it is too late now. same as other members of my family at the moment, especially my really cruel, nasty older sister, (but thats a long story,) however i did retaliate and say some things straight back at her, so that felt good.

my psychologist is great, i feel like i am going through great change, slowly but i hope surely......

oneplusone, your rage with your dd, i have it too, its comes from nowhere like danae said, its totally awful, and something i am working on with mark at the moment.

i think its the same for all of us really, and i think we are amazing not to have disappeared into a bundle of drugs, drink and total desperation, or complete mental illness, even though i have been there in my head so many many times...
but no, we are stronger than that, and very respectful of others, is it so much, to ask for the same?

i go away to my favourite place in the whole world next week, i am so looking forward to it, to spending some time out, and thinking about stuff, and just walking along by the sea. i think it has come at a perfect time for me.

AN, i agree with smithfield, and think your dh is right, and being really excellent, in telling you how really to look at things, regarding your mum and family. and i understand all the stuff you write about about snippets of hope/love from the people who are meant to do that anyway, it actually makes me cry alot.

i wish you all well, and hope things are mostly positive in your lives right now and i hope to speak soon.
take very good care of you. (all)
xx

hi smithfield i think we cross posted!!

hi Matilda - It is good to hear from you. I am glad you are doing well.
Please do come and talk on here whenever you are feeling upset. It will enable you to rid yourself of some of the emotions that may ottherwise eat you up, and also you will get lots of suuport just as you are giving now.
I think it was vey brave of you to write to your father and tell him the truth.
Focus on the fact you are the strong one. Strong enough to speak the truth and stand up for what is right.
Positive action like this will help to show you that the best approval/acceptance you can recieve is from yourself. Once you realise that you will no longer need approval from those , like your father, who consistently have let you down, or will only give acceptance at the expense of yourself. (((matilda)))

thanks smithfield, that means a lot.
although what do you mean by....
or will only give acceptance at the expense of yourself..... i dont understand that?

i think i was angry and frustrated when i first started out on here, and in rl in general, and it is only now i am starting to feel more comfortable in myself.
my love to you, and have a good day
xx
ps, thanks for the hug!!

Hi Matildax, I'm glad you are feeling ok enough to post on here . I've found that I was really scared to say anything at first on MN but the more I post, the more I feel fine about saying almost anything! I'm breaking out of the habit of secrecy and shame that was taught to me.

I'm happy to hear from you via email any time you want as well x

Off to see Therapist in a minute and will tell him all about conversation with mum, see what he makes of it! (I can see the look of disgust on his face now ).

Hope everyone is well this morning

Therapist's evaluation of my mum's phonecall: She did it for her, to alleviate her guilt, rather than for me.

This makes my insides go completely still and hard.

He could see I was completely tense today, before I even spoke, he made me do relaxation exercises (partially successful).

I was tense because I am trying not to feel anything or express anything. There is something that is too much for me and I don't even know what it is.

I talked in a hard, cold and venomous way to Therapist and insulted him by saying he is probably saying the right things to make me think he believes me how crap it all was just because that is his job. I did apologise and say that I am a mistrustful person and I can't help having a bit of doubt but I think I would feel it if he was 'faking' and I do feel he is genuine so I am sorry. I hate it that I've been horrible to him today. He said he can cope with it and my anger is coming out.

He said I have been successful in my life because I survived childhood, I've achieved academically, I've got a successful marriage and 2 children. He said I'm stronger than I think and I've been standing up for myself against my brother all my life (I can't see it, how have I stood up to him?, how could I?).

There is something nasty inside me right now and I don't know what it is and don't know if I can unleash it.

He said the worst thing was that my parents made a definite choice and put a lot of effort into getting children to adopt and would have been told about the difficulties but went ahead with it anyway and messed it up and it seems like they had children for purely selfish reasons (to improve their image).

matilda- Sorry if I confused you. I was meaning that when a parent only accepts their child conditionally, that child learns a difficult lesson which is then taken into adulthood.

We learn we have to behave in a certain way to keep our parent's approval. Their acceptance of us always hangs in the balance because we have to constantly guess at what will and will not please them.

That's what makes us stuff our own feelings back down, numb ourselves to our own needs. Instead we put others feelings and needs first even if it is detrimental to us.
That is why we end up feeling worthless because we dont believe 'our' own needs are as important as others.

By writing to your father and telling him what happened you were doing something because 'you' needed to. In the past you may have kept quiet so as to keep him happy but at what cost to yourself?

It's a slow process but I think the more we put ourselves first the more we are valueing ourselves, and out of that grows self esteem and self worth.
Suddenly we dont need others to validate us (especially those that abused us) because what we are doing is validating ourselves.

AN-It is 'OK' to be angry. And as for your therapist, this is his job. Part of the process is for you to learn that it 'is' ok to be angry.
By allowing you to do that in his presence he is helping to reprogram you. The more experiences you have of safely venting your anger the easier it will get.
To vent your anger positively and toward the right people is better than unleashing it onto yourself.

---
Talking of therapists, I think I have made the wrong decision with mine.
I dont know if 'I' am being paraniod (my turn AN), but I feel like there is part of her that just doesnt get it.
I think this might even be on unconcious level. As in, on an unconcious level, she wants to let my parents off the hook.
For example, one week she said my mother sounded narcisstic, then the following week when I was telling her about my mothers anger and rages she said she sounded 'BPD' and started to say how anger in BPD can mean the person goes into a disasociative state when angry. Which would mean that she actually may not remember having those rages and what she did during them
She then talked about my father saying sorry and how that meant he had insight.
It's funny because your posts AN about your mother has made me realise that saying sorry isnt nearly enough.
He could have got anger management, he could have promised never to do it again and stuck by his word, he could have made a decision at any given time to spend more time with me so I felt important enough instead of unimportant and invisible. He could realise with his amazing insight how hurtful it is to treat my sister differently from me and show her favour financially and with his time. Just as his dad did to him and his sister.
I just feel really about this now.
Also she doesnt seem to remember anything I tell her and I have to go back over stuff.
I know she must see alot of clients but I just think this just triggers my 'unimportant message'. An example of this is after saying my mum sounded BPD last week, this week apparently my mother's gone back to being narcisstic??
Now I have a confession to make. I wrote on here a while back that I had seen a therapist and that she was lovely. Well I met the one I am seeing now afterwards and I went with her I think for superficial reasons. I feel bad about this now. I should have stuck with my gut feelings I think. Anyway ramble over. But writing this down has helped me clarify that I think this woman is totally wrong for me.

thanks smithfield, i understand now.

AN, it is just natural not to trust your therapist, and 'challenge' him, i think it is especially hard if you pay for your sessions also, as i know i would feel, like you, and think 'he is just saying that'........ BUT he is not, i know there are some dodgy therapists out there, but i doubt anyone, who seems to be very understanding of you, and very beneficial to you, would blatantly lie to you.
its just paranoia, we all suffer from it , and especially when we are talking about our emotions. i think it is natural to get scared at times.

from what you have told me, he sounds like a good man, and i am hoping that by your next session, everything will be fine between you.

smithfield, i know what you mean about thinking you have picked the wrong therapist.
i had one, who i just didnt click with, she just did not seem to really be interested, and would never remember anything i had said to her from previous sessions. it was painful and i felt embarrassed to talk, and back then, it was even more so, as i was just getting my head around going to therapy and stuff anyway i missed a appointment, and she was so off with me the next time, saying her time was precious and money etc.... she had no regard as to why i had missed the appt, and when i told her, that i had sat along the road and cried, and was unable to go in that day, as it was all very painful, she just literally rolled her eyes at me. like my life and my problems meant very little to her.
i never went back,
so i know how you feel. could you find someone else? i know its easier said than done, but its important to be comfortable with that person at least 99% of the time.

anyway my son is crying, and i havent fed my dd yet!!
so speak to you soon ok?
take care
xx

Thank you Smithfield and Matildax. I think we should go with our instincts about our therapists. If they don't make you feel that they understand and are interested and on your side then you won't trust them enough to talk about your deepest feelings and won't be able to sort much out! It isn't your fault if you don't feel right, it is their job to make you feel ok enough to talk.

I would really hate it if my therapist didn't remember things I had said and gave confusingly different evaluations of what I had said each week. Sometimes I go into a session and it seems like he has thought about some bit of 'theory' that would help me and he says it and it is spot on and really relevant to what I have been thinking! Sometimes he seems to look at my mannerisms when I arrive and read my mood and knows what things to say and what questions to ask before I've even said much. It feels like he 'recognises' a lot of things I say. I'm not trying to sound smug but trying to say that I think he is a good one and this is how a good one should make you feel!

I feel bad that I was horrible to him because I do feel all the right things with him and must feel trust enough to 'accuse' him! I would never normally stand up for myself and tell someone I doubted their motives! In a way it feels good! I feel reassured by his reaction and by the way I feel now that he really is on my side.

Maybe it isn't surprising I am feeling distrustful of people as I realise I was almost taken in by my mum's apology and felt so sorry for her crying that I wanted to forgive her and make it all easy for her but she was not 'giving me' what I thought she was because it was wrapped in loads of excuses and 'it's not my fault it's yours' attitude and really does look like she was doing it to make herself feel less guilty and not for me at all. Once again I was not the important one.

I want to feel loved by my relatives and stupidly allowed myself to feel a little bit and believe it for a moment before realising it wasn't the real thing. The disappointment is horrible and I was stupid to allow myself to think I might be more important to them and now I am angry with them and angry with myself for letting them make me feel this disappointment again. They used to disappoint me time and time again before I decided not to try to get what I wanted from them because I would never get it. Why have I let them do it to me again? I've hardened my heart towards them even more now.

smithfield, what you said about your therapist rings true about mine. I have actually stopped seeing her. But she was the same as yours, kept forgetting everything and just didn't seem to understand me.

I am going to leave it for a while now before i look for another one, I might go back to my old one, spoke to him on the phone the other day and he seems to understand me a lot more. Trouble is he lives miles away so a lot more hassle for me to get to him.

I had a strange day yesterday. I think it was triggered by all the things i have been saying about my sister on here recently. I think what i had was an 'emotional realisation' about her and the way she has treated me. I have for a while had the intellectual knowledge but I think my feelings came to the surface yesterday. I think there has been some anger towards my sister bubbling under for a few days, which i am ashamed to say i directed at DD a couple of times. It was the usual thing, she did some very minor things to irritate me and i blew up, it was out of all proportion to what she had done but i couldn't help it. I felt awful afterwards and i need to apologise to her. I knew straightaway that the anger should have been directed towards my sister as i had been thinking about her constantly over the past few days, ever since my conversation with her when she talked about finding it funny to antagonise DD.

I so angry yesterday towards my sister, i wrote her a letter and spent some whacking one of the DC's toys against the sofa and shouting obscenities at my sister . If there had been anyone watching i would have been carted off to a mental hospital straightaway, but actually it was one of the sanest days of my life! I recognised how badly my sister has treated me over the years, not just as a child but as an adult and i felt so angry towards her. All this time i have been desperate to have a good relationship with her and thought i would feel so upset if we fell out completely, and now i realise that that behaviour on my part was insane, to desperately want a relationship with someone who has been downright cruel and nasty to me.

She used to call me nasty names because of my eczema as a child. When i think about it now, she was the person who was nastiest to me, i never got teased at school, only by her. She would deliberately try and make me feel left out of things or actually leave me out of things by not inviting me to say parties to which she asked our younger sister, she would start conversations with our younger sister about things i knew nothing about and so i would be excluded from the conversation. If i bouught something i was pleased and excited about she would always make a nasty comment about it and completely deflate my bubble. And it was all totally unprovoked and unjustified, all i ever wanted to do was to look after her, be good to her, i used to spend loads of money on her when i started working, take both my sisters on holidays, be generous with birthday presents etc and how do they repay me? Well, they didn't even get me a wedding present.

Right now i feel i hate them both, the middle one more so than the younger one, and i have no idea why i was so desperate to be 'friends' with them as i have been all this time.

The only reason i can think of is that as a child, i clearly wasn't recieiving the emotional nourishment i needed from my parents and so, from a purely instinctual survival mode, i am guessing i would look to the next potential available source of that emotional nourishment and that would have been my sisters. I think a young child has a strong instinct for survival and it knows what it needs to survive; it knows it needs love as well as food and water, and it will look to any potential source to get that love if it is not recieving it from it's parents. In my case the next closest people to me apart from my parents would have been my sisters and i think i formed an (unhealthy) attachment to them as a child in a bid to try and get some of my emotional needs met. Of course my sisters would never be able to meet my needs but as a child i think i was acting out of a pure survival instinct rather than any kind of rational logic. That unhealthy attachment has survived to this day which is why i felt so strongly until now that i 'needed' a relationship with my sisters. At a deep subconscious level i think i was still hoping they would meet some of my childhood needs for love. I think that is why i have been so blind to their mistreatment of me, i could not see it as i was completely focussed on my hope that they would fulfil my childhood need for love.

I have now realised that of course my sisters will never be able to meet my needs, and that has broken the attachment i felt and i do now feel liberated. I am not dependent on them anymore (i didn't actually realise that i was so emotionally dependant on them til now which is scary). I think i'm going through a range of emotions at the moment, anger, hatred, sadness at how badly i have been treated and how i have been used and exploited by every single member of my family. Each and every one of them has used to me 'act out' their own issues on. I was cast in the scapegoat role by my parents and i was indeed everyone's scapegoat. My middle sister definately has deep seated issues of her own, she has been very badly treated by my dad, but she has no realisation of this at all and perhaps never will have. Which means she will unconsciously act out her issues on everyone around her.

When i think about myself as a child, i see myself as the weakest little 'duckling', picked on by everyone in her family including her younger siblings and not protected by her mother. No wonder i spent so much time at friends' houses (thank god i was lucky enough to have some lovely caring friends) or if i was at home i had my head buried in a book, i can see now it was the only way i could survive.

Having gone through all that i have, i am now starting to actually 'like' myself as a person. I'm far from perfect, but at least i have the insight into myself that my sisters are completely lacking and i'm not exploiting or using other people to 'act out' my issues (apart from when i shouted at DD the other day ).

Right now i feel like i am in a much better place than i have ever been, i have a much more solid foundation than i ever have and i feel so much stronger in myself. All this despite yesterday when i was angry and sobbing at the same time. After the depression there is always a renewed vitality....how true.

I just did something that made me feel really good - wrote a list of things I have achieved in my life despite a crap start. You might not think there will be much to write but when you start writing it you think of more and more things! I have saved it and will re-read it when I'm feeling useless. Be proud that you survived some bad things and made a life for yourself despite them

hello everyone
oneplusone...... i could have wrote your post with regard to your sister!!! your situation sounds spookily similar to me and one of my sisters.
i also used to take out, my upset about her and the way she treated me on my dcs and dp. i would internalize all my anger with her, and allowed her to treat me in this way. anyway it came to a head last week, when she once more insulted me, and called me some horrific names. the difference this time (which says to me, that i am indeed 'getting better' and stronger,) was that i retaliated
i called her a bully and pointed out that she never had a nice thing to say about anyone, unless of course when she was bigging herself up, or her dcs. i can see now she has severe issues, and can only feel better, if she is making someone feel bad iyswim?
she also smokes copious amounts of grass each month, and has said to me that it doesnt affect her????? yeah right!!!
anyway, after the initial anger and wanting to actually go round to hers, and scream, shout or more shockingly wanting to kill her i hae actually decided that i am happier without her in my life, and am now starting to see other family members as toxic, and more importantly seeing them as people, instead of 'older' 'wiser' members of my family.

AN, excellent idea about a feel good list, i will definitely try it.
my love to you all
xx

hi matilda, am glad you understand me (and i understand you) re our sisters. That is what is SO great about this thread, there is always someone you connect with and somehow, even with this difficult topic, a problem shared is a problem halved. I totally know what you mean about going round to your sister's place and killing her. I'm not shocked at all that you said that, that is exactly how i feel about my parents and middle sister. I would dearly love to go round there with a cast iron frying pan and beat them all about the head with it. If 'Jim could Fix It' for me to do that i would be a happy lady!

I think it is extremely healthy to recognise when people are treating you badly and to feel angry about it. I'm so glad you retaliated at your sister's last dig at you. I am looking forward to doing the same when either of my sisters has one of their digs at me. I think they will be so taken aback that i have, for the first time ever in my whole life, stood up to them and stood up for myself. Like you I would never say anything back to them if they said something nasty, now I can't think why i didn't, but of course i am in a totally different place now compared to years ago. I basically had no self confidence or self esteem and allowed myself to be the world's punch bag. I completely swallowed any nasty, tactless, hurtful remark anyone said to me and just accepted it.

Like i mentioned earlier, when my sister was over a few weeks ago it was as if i was in a weird coma. I was aware that her behaviour was not right, whereas before i wouldn't even have had any awareness like that, but I was unable to react. I have definately snapped out of it now though and am ready and waiting for my 2 'ugly sisters' to do their worst and they will be very surprised i think.

At the moment my younger sister in my mind, doesn't seem as toxic as my middle sister, but i am sure that is only because the memories and feelings about her have not yet been triggered. Once they are i am sure i'll hate her as much as i hate middle sister.

As far as i'm concerned, from now on i have a new rule which is 'one strike and you're out'. If anyone is horrible to me, that's it, i will cut them out of my life. I have already spent 38 years being shat on, i am most definately not going to spend even a minute more of my life as someone's else's rubbish tip.

The only thing i need to do is have some lines ready to stand up for myself with as it doesn't come naturally at the moment, i need a lot more practise before it becomes automatic.

AN, bashing the toy against the sofa was good. I actually imagined i was beating up my sister, that she was sitting on the sofa and i was beating her up and it felt so good! But, the only thing is i have a really achy arm since then, as i gave her such a good beating, my muscles are not used to such a workout!

The trouble is I only have 1 day a week when i have the house to myself to do that sort of thing which is quite difficult as the tension builds up to bursting point sometimes which is when i end up shouting at DD. I need to find some way to release tension every day i think, but how? DS is around most of the time so don't want to do anything that would scare him!

Don't know if this is 'off topic' it seems so but in the end I think everything issue in my life somehow comes back to my childhood problems.

It's DH (again!). I had an argument with him this morning. I feel that at weekends he doesn't do his fair share of childcare. He will mind the kids if i'm around but the minuite I appear, he disappears off somewhere and leaves me alone with them. I spend all week alone with them and I really don't want to spend my weekends like that as well. DH has been brought up seeing his dad dozing in the armchair on a sunday whilst his mum does everything around the house and he thinks this is the way we should do things. I of course totally disagree but don't know how to get him to do more with the DC's apart from literally walking out of the house and leaving him with them.

He thinks I'm always moaning and don't appreciate what i have. I suppose i do sometimes moan a lot and i don't feel particularly happy most of teh time, but then that's because i'm not happy. I'm not miserable either, just not happy. I think if DH spent even a week alone at home with the DC's he would understand why i moan and why i do not want to spend teh weekend looking after the DC's on my own. Trouble is he has never even spent 1 day all alone with them, if I do go out for the day, he always calls his parents over so there are 3 adults to 2 children....easy peasy.

Is this purely a relationship issue or a childhood issue? I don't know. Perhaps i should create a seperate thread for this issue but i feel everyone on this thread 'knows' me and my situation and starting a new thread would mean people making comments without knowing the whole picture. Sorry, please feel free to tell me to go elsewhere with this if you want!

Hi i am a namechanger but think this is where i belong.
I dont really know where to start so i think i will read what others have said and go from there.

hi toxicdump, welcome, reading other people's posts is a great way to start. Feel free to post whenever you feel ready, you won't be judged and will recieve loads of support. x

Hello ToxicDump, hope you feel able to write something soon, they are all so nice on here and make you feel like you can say things.

Matildax and OnePlusOne, you two sound really strong at the moment talking about standing up for yourselves! I wish I felt so certain that I could do it and not just clam up. I can't believe I was horrible to Therapist the other day when I never stand up for myself with anyone and he must be one of the people who least deserves it! The thing I find scary about saying things is if the person gets angry with me I feel scared (not that they are going to hurt me physically, just that I have an ingrained belief that confrontation is frightening). I also know it is highly likely I will be the one who ends up feeling guilty for hurting them. I doubt my own judgement so easily if someone says things to make me feel sorry for them and make me feel I have been unfair.

Watched 'Strictly' with the kids tonight and didn't go 'psycho' like last week! I was prepared for it I suppose.

OnePlusOne, if you went out on a day trip with your DH and DCs would he help with them then? Or even just a little trip out to the shops with all of you. Do you do things together that make you feel 'familyish'? My DH has also been brought up with his mum doing everything and his dad sitting in his armchair waiting to be brought cups of tea etc. Sometimes it does seem like he thinks all he has to do is earn the money and shouldn't have to do anything at home. But he does do a bit.

I think part of the reason he does a bit is because I am quite lazy and slovenly . Sometimes the house looks so bad that he can't stand it any more so he helps sort it out! Sometimes I just go into a mood and say "I'm not doing it anymore, you can sort them out" and he has to help more with the DCs then. I've had a lot of depression and been so unmotivated to do anything at times so he has had to do things if he didn't want to live in a shithole with out of control, unwashed and half dressed children and never get round to going out anywhere as a family or big jobs eg decorating never getting done because I never got round to organising it! I'm not as bad as I used to be now though! (please believe me ).

hello toxicdump, and welcome
i am on my wait out now, and getting shouted at to get off the computer
but i have a lot i would like to write, with regard to what to say when you retaliate,
it is something i have been working on with mark, so oneplusone and AN, i think you will find it useful.
anyway dp is threatening to switch this off at the wall, so i have to go
take care, and have a good day.
xx

Hello, i think i am finally ready to type something out.

I will try to make this make as much sense as i can, but i only feel able to give minimal details at the moment.
From the age of 13 my father began to make advances towards me. He would brush up against me and touch me in a way which i knew was inappropriate, but he was a man of extreme power so i wasn't able to stop this. By the time i was 14 things had gotten worse and he would instigate intercourse. Again i was powerless. This went on for many years. He scared me into keeping quiet and it worked.