"But we took you to stately homes" - Part 4

[oneplusone]

Can't beleive we're onto part 4, although i can't see this thread ever dying.

I was just reading through past posts to try and catch up on the months i have missed and something somebody said has triggered something for me. I know my mother didn't bond with me or love me and i think part of the reason why was because she thought i took after my dad whom she hates (although she is too gutless to leave him). I remember when i was young her saying things like my hair was like my dad's but she wouldn't say it an affectionate way, but quite a venomous way and it always made me feel uncomfortable when she said that but i must have been too young to figure out why.

The more i realise about my mother the more i despise and hate her. I remember she used to play hide and seek with me when i was very young, about 3. Only she would 'really' hide in a place i would never be able to find her. I remember crying and feeling completely distressed one time as i thought she had gone and left me alone at home. It was only after i had been crying for some time that she jumped out laughing from her hiding place. What a nasty, cruel, ugly piece of work and she parades around looking as if butter wouldn't melt and she has a lot of people fooled including my 2 sisters. I know my dad can see her for what she is which is why she hates him and i can see her true colours too which is why i hate her.

I know inside she is deeply insecure, lacks intelligence, strength and integrity. I have witnessed her lie, manipulate and cheat to get what she wants and the people to whom she lies and those who she manipulates are us, her own family. I just can't beleive my sisters cannot see through her, they are totally blind and deaf to her true character and have completely fallen for the victim role she has carved out for herself.

Cutting off my parents was the best thing i ever did and i have realised i need to set some boundaries with my sisters, my last remaining friend and even DH. How to do that is another thing, something completely new to me.

ToxicDump, that is horrific! I'm so sorry . Is he still alive? Would you consider going to the police or is this too frightening? You have been extremely brave to post about it. Are you getting any help for the trauma you have gone through?

TOxicDump,
I'm so glad that you have reached the stage of healing where you can write even just a little of what you have gone through. THats what all the tremendous pain is doing: healing. People who aren't healing don't feel any pain ( its all locked away somewhere).
The pain may get worse as you start on this journey, but because you are a brave enough person to face what has happened to you (the pure shit luck of having a peadophile for a father) I'm sure you won't be able to go back. There is something about admitting what has happened that opens the floodgates, I think. I hope this thread is useful to you.

TD - I am so sorry to hear about this. If you want to talk, feel free to CAT me. I know a little of what you are going through.

I haven't posted for a while as I know I was on MN far too much so I am trying to limit it. I read some of chicken soup for the mother's soul today and the first story was really difficult for me. It was about the grown up child forgiving her mother for what she had done in sending away the ill father. It made me wonder whether I should forgive my mother. I don't want to. I don't want to make it all right what she did.

toxicdump, i am so sorry to hear that. (((hug)))
as a fellow survivor of childhood sexual abuse, i can relate to being told to keep quiet. my grandfather used to say to me that i must not tell as it was a special 'treat' for him and me, and if i told it would mean that people (meaning family) would be cross with me, because they didnt have a treat. it may sound silly but even though it hurt alot, i had no idea it was wrong, i just thought it was what people who loved each other did.

i hope you find this thread helpful as it certainly gave me the courage to realize i needed to change, go see my psychologist, and try to move forward with my life.

i am in a good place right now, and feel more positive and happier than i have for a long time, i feel i am worthwhile iykwim?

Oneplusone, lol@ the frying pan, i feel my day (face to face] will come for me and my sister, im biding my time, but there is no way i will have her in my life or my dcs life ever again. she needs to take a good hard look at herself and her 'problems.

i went for my session with mark today, and he is pleased with my progress, we are now working on showing affection towards my dp and my kids, epecially dd2.
and learning that i can change my way of thinking and learn to enjoy a loving relationship, and not always associate sex with bad thoughts, but perhaps allow myself to feel good about it.

the main thing however i want to address is my anger, that just comes from nowhere, and can be awful for my family and me.
i need to learn to channel it. i am really struggling with this, but hope i can sort it out, even a little, with the help of this thread and with mark.

well im off now to pack for my holiday, i go wed morning at 6am!! im really excited.

anyway love to you all.
i will come back and see how you are all getting on, when i get back.
take care.
xx

I'm hugely wound up and venomous for no good reason, I think I've had another trigger.

It's my children being on our bed, right in our faces, going on and on, as soon as I've woken up, especially DD.

It brings back feelings of my life being owned by my bro and him never leaving me alone and not being able to be alone anywhere, even when I was in bed.

I get so angry and feel pressure in my head and want to escape and then don't want the children anywhere near me at all when I get up. It seemed like they were hanging round me, right by my feet to trip over every time I turned round or standing right in the way of where I wanted to go.

Perhaps this stuff is just normal for everyone but I feel so hateful towards my children, more than I should and I can't stop my bro coming into my mind.

I know DD is not my bro and I know I have triggers but it still doesn't stop them triggering. Sometimes when I stop and look at her and really concentrate on her being her and unique and 'cool' (because actually I really admire a lot of things about her) I feel a bit better but sometimes the anger is too intense and I don't make myself do it.

I'm reading Raising Your Spirited Child and I think it really describes them. According to the book my DD is an extrovert and needs to get energised by talking to me, but I am an introvert so this tires me out and to re-energise I need to spend time alone.

I feel so drippy posting all my crap when some of you have gone through so much worse from recent posts. (This is still an 'obsession' - I shouldn't be whinging because other people have had worse).

Listen, other peoples experiences may seem worse but it doesn't stop yours being a problem to you.

My DH told me the other day that DS1 and I are very alike and that is why he winds me up. I had never realised it before, nor do I see how it actually affects me yet, but our children have such an effect on us both good and bad.

I remember nannying for two children who had a room packed with toys and feeling really annoyed and resentful that they didn't appreciate them more and that they had so much, but it wasn't their fault that I had nothing and they had plenty.

I am not really sure what I want to say but maybe if you could start off by dealing with one thing - getting your children to sleep in their own beds - might help you feeling so angry.

It isn't their fault you can't handle them being so close around you all the time nor is it yours.

Take care.

Thanks NotMamaG, you said such simple things but I find them reassuring. I really like that bit about it isn't their fault I get wound up when they are all over me (it is because of the way I am) and it isn't my fault either (because it is probably due to my experiences/personality clash with my kids). I feel less angry if I don't think of it as anybody's fault, it is just a situation which is unlucky which I need to find a way to deal with.

They do sleep in their own beds 7pm til 7.30am so I should think myself lucky! But I get crazy when they jump on us when they wake up. Most people would say this was normal for children and nothing to get wound up by.

I've just got a bit wound up in town - this is unrelated and I probably should be writing about it in another thread (sorry), but you lot 'know' me and I feel better 'talking' to you. A child was intimidating my DS by 'roaring' at him and DS was crying and scared of him. It was in a soft play centre and the child's parents were not nearby. I was at a complete loss as to what to do. The kid wasn't technically being naughty by just making noises for fun, was he? But I wanted to say something to him but was scared to - scared of a 3 year old kid! And scared that his parent would be offended. So I didn't say anything. But then felt bad that I hadn't protected DS. Should I have said something even though my DS is oversensitive? What should I have said?

DS was playing with a baby walker (even though he is 3) and my friend's DS (almost 3 but more 'streetwise') tried to pull it off him. DS pulled it back. My friend said "DS has just snatched that off my boy" (she has no worries about speaking out about other people's kids). I said "DS had it first, he took it when your boy stopped playing with it to have his drink". She grudgingly accepted this and took the walker off her boy and gave it to mine, which is good.

Then later 3 other kids wanted it including hers. They were all stood staring at him, making him feel pressured, looking like they might try to get it off him. I would be intimidated! He couldn't relax enough to play with it. I was hoping my friend would say something to her boy. I said "Look how these 3 kids are putting pressure on DS". She said something like I hope you are going to get DS to take it in turns as I took it off my boy before. She said (and she has said similar things before) "It isn't in my boy's nature to behave like this, he only does it if one child starts being stroppy (meaning mine)", like she was blaming my boy, making excuses for hers and wasn't going to do anything about it.

Lately she seems to be making little comments about my boy's behaviour like "You need to really say something about that, I would to my boy and he wouldn't do it again". It's when DS hasn't even done something that bad and she is trying to make out that her boy is really good and mine is bad. Her DS's behaviour has really improved in the last few weeks and before that he was a complete nightmare. My friend used to rant about how bad he was and go on about how hard it was for her. I don't know if he has just grown out of it or she has used some good techniques on him (haven't noticed her being any different). I asked her about it because I was amazed at how much calmer he seems and she just snapped "what do you mean by that?" It's like now she denies that her DS was ever bad or is ever bad and wants to make mine look bad.

I feel like I've been a wimp in some way, have I? Is there something I should have said? Is this me not standing up for myself again and not standing up for DS? It makes me despise myself because I feel like I never stood up for myself my whole life and so bad things happened to me and I'm STILL not standing up for myself so I'm still just as drippy as I was and bad stuff could happen to me (or my children) again! But I don't want to speak out so much that I become a complete bitch and go over the top the other way! I feel like I need guidance over what would be the normal and moderate way to be. What would you MNers do?

Hi AN- Wish I had some great advice to give you, but Im afraid I dont. But you remind me so much of ME!

I always get very anxious whenever anyone elses child is 'having a go' at mine. I get really protective (probably because I was bullied so much at home and school). I think there is definately an element of feeling angry for not standing up for either myself or ds (or any of my family).

Yet I know if I am really pushed I will stand up for myself but then I tend to do it in an angry way and end up looking daft IYKWIM.

Dont know if this will help but I have begun to think slightly differently with regards to ds (similar age to yours, and he is very sensitive).

It began when I bought a book called 'dealing with disappointment'. This is a book about how to deal with children being dissapointed, and with their feelings in general.

What it really did was to help me see ds as a seperate person. Ive let go of feeling 'responsible' for his feelings in ernest and instead I see it as my role to facilitate how he can begin to 'deal' with those feelings instead.

I've recognised that I cant shield ds from life, because life happens to absolutely everyone regardless. I cant stop him from ever being disappointed or frustrated and I cant control his emotions as a result. but I can help give him tools to deal with his emotions and validate how he feels and therefore give him tools to deal with life and its ups and downs.

There is an element I think AN of us seeing ourselves in our children but we have to let them build confidence in coping with things and be there to discuss it and work out alongside them how they can cope.
That also releases a huge amount of pressure off of our own shoulders I think.

With regards to the mother. I would be the same in all honesty. Its all about being assertive 'in the moment ' in an adult way. Something I am rubbish at btw).

But, you could perhaps say 'Ive noticed you seem to comment on ds' behaviour rather a lot lately and I really rather you didnt thanks all the same.'

If she comments negatively on ds' behaviour further just say 'As we both know children go through many phases, it will pass'.

I hope someone will be along with some better suggestions and all I will add is you have every right to your feelings AN. I agree this woman is being precious with her son and the expense of yours. She is also teaching her son that he should always have his way and should not ever be frustrated with any particular outcome that doesnt go his way.

Be confident that what you percieve to be happening 'is'. Your friends' commenting on your child's beahviour isnt acceptable and could be damaging to ds if he over hears it.

It's making you uncomfortable and 'that' is reason enough.

At the same time dont be hard on yourself for not saying 'anything' at all. You may not enjoy confrontation and that is part of who you are. Many people dont enjoy it AN, many with a 'normal' background find confronting others hard. There is no right or wrong way to be.

By beating yourself up for not sticking up for you or ds you are accepting reponsibility for 'her' beahviour.

She behaves badly and you beat yourself up for not stopping her. Its not your responsibilty to teach her how to behave. Her beahviour is 'her' repsonsibility not yours.

BTW with regards to Dcs jumping on the bed, you could tell them you dont like it and need time to wake up first. Might not sink in for a while but keep telling them. Negotiate a compromise, tell them how you feel.
You will not harm them by teaching them that everyone has boundaries to be respected including mummy.
You need space in the morning and that's ok.

Smithfield, thank you for all your advice. You're right I do mistrust my own judgement on whether someone has been 'wrong' or not because I suppose, I was taught to not believe my feelings from a young age! I need to start trusting my instincts don't I!

I like the bit about a person who does something wrong is responsible for what they did. Not stopping them does not make it my fault that they did it. Me taking all the blame into myself is another habit from childhood. Thank you for reminding me because it is something I have to keep saying to myself about how I feel about my childhood and it looks like I am still thinking the same way about current situations.

I also like the bit about we can't shield our children from the difficult emotions of normal life events that everyone goes through. I feel I want to because I see DS as being so vulnerable and can't bear the thought of him being hurt in any way. I really feel it, I think it is because I see him as me in my little family's symbolic representation of my family I grew up in. I completely agree that we need to teach them how to cope with real life 'without us' for when we aren't by their side all day. So this doesn't mean fighting all their battles for them. I had an idea maybe I could be by DS during an 'argument' and tell him what to say to the other child.

I'm glad you said the word 'compromise' about my children jumping on the bed etc. It reminds me that I need to find a moderate way of parenting (Therapist keeps telling me)instead of all one way or all the other (which I tend to do). I can see that I should let them do it a bit but then it is ok to say I need some space so they have to stop doing it for a bit because what I want is important too.

I can't read all this now but will come back later and try and help if you want, or at least I am here to listen.

Hi all, haven't managed to post recently as have not had even a minute to myself; it's not good as I feel I am at busting point right now. Am going to have to offload some stuff right now and come back later to respond to recent posts, many of which I can relate to so well.

Where to start.....I spoke to my younger sister this morning. She told me our mother has just found out she has a heart problem and will probably have to have a heart bypass operation soon. My sister was crying as she was telling me this but I felt nothing. And I still feel nothing. I told my sister that my mother was never once there for me when i needed her, not once, that she destroyed our relationship a long time ago, probably 25 years ago and it had been dead in the water all that time. Now that she was ill didn't really make any difference to anything. I was a bit worried that my sister would think i was being really harsh, but she seemed to accept that was the way i felt. I have also been worried for a while about the fact that when my parents got ill, i would be blamed for it because i had caused them a lot of stress by cutting them off.

I don't think my sister is blaming me and she seems to be accepting of how I feel. I told her i felt nothing for our parents and as far as i was concerned they died a long time ago. I suppose she didn't really need to hear all that from me, i suppose i just said it as i thought she might have been expecting me to be concerned, worried and upset about my mum and i told her all that i did by way of explanation as to why i felt no concern for my mother.

My sister asked me if i wanted to know about my mother and I said no. I also lied and said i didn't wish anything bad upon my parents but the truth is I do, i want them to suffer in the way they made me suffer for 38 years. I wonder how my sister would have reacted if i had said that to her. I think it is natural to want to take revenge on the people who caused you so much pain for so many years. I could never actually take revenge myself but the fact that my mother is now suffering.....well, maybe it's some form of natural justice. It will actually be a relief for me if she dies....at least I can say that on here, would not really say that in real life to anyone.

I wish there weren't so many connotations attached to the word 'mum'. As soon as you mention 'mum' everyone immediately thinks of a loving, caring, kindly, protective person. The reality as we all know is that not every mum is like that. I think the fact there are abusive/neglectful/selfish/unloving/uncaring mothers should be much more widely publicised and it should not be immdediately assumed that all mothers are loving and caring.

The thing that has been occupying me the most recently is my relationship with DH. I have been avoiding facing up to the fact that it may, actually it is, an unhealthy relationship, toxic even, and bad for me emotionally and perhaps physically.

I met DH over 8 years ago and we have been married for 7 years. It stands to reason that the relationship is unhealthy as it was entered into at a time when i had no self esteem, no self confidence and no ability to detect abuse and abusive people. I think DH married me because he could, at a deeply subconscious level, sense that i was lacking in self confidence and i was not the sort of person who could stand up for herself. Because of his childhood and his abusive mother, he needed a scapegoat on which to act out his issues and of course i was the perfect candidate.

It has slowly been dawning on me how, throughout our marriage, he has never once shown that he beleives in me or has any faith in me. It's almost as if he knew what my role within my own family was, and even though we did not grow up together, he also treated me in the way my family have been treating me.

If anyone criticises me he doesn't stand up for me, he will agree with the other person. If I criticise someone he will defend them as opposed to respecting my opinion. He has a generally low opinion of me and certainly has no respect for me.....just like my family. He compares me to his mother and I always fall short. He seems unable to see me for who i am, see my good and positive qualities and appreciate those, instead he always seems to criticise and focus on my negative traits....just like my parents.

He criticises my 'housekeeping' skills (or lack thereof) and compares me to his mother who is houseproud to the point of obsession or Hyacinth Bouquet. He criticises things I haven't done around the house and does not have the attitude i would like him to have which is to know that if I haven't managed to do something it will be for a very good reason (usually DC's playing up).

Years ago i told him his mum was tactless and he jumped down my throat and totally defended her and told me he thought I was tactless. But a few days ago he finally admitted his mum was indeed extremely tactless. He has yet to also admit that she is a vindictive, nasty piece of work, but maybe in a few years time he will also admit to that as well.

It sounds like a cliche, but i feel all my life i was totally misunderstood by my parents and sisters (well they weren't interested in who i was so perhaps misunderstood is not quite the right word) and i feel i am totally misunderstood by DH. He doesn't know the real me and he seems to see me as my parents did.

Even though i have changed a lot over the past 2 years, DH seems to be very slow to recognise the change, although that is perhaps just part of his personality, he admits he hates change and it takes him a long time to be able to adapt to any sort of change. I did talk to him recently about the physical abuse he inflicted on me and he gave the typical toxic response, ie he denied it at first and when i persisted he minimised it, blamed it on me and tried to justify it. I said if it ever happened again i would call the police and I think he could tell that i was 100% serious. I feel glad that i stood up for myself and set a boundary in our relationship. There are still quite a few boundaries i need to lay down, am still not quite sure how to go about doing it. He seems to think he has been supportive of me all this time, when in fact whilst he has helped me out in a practical way with the DC's etc, i always get the feeling he does it begrudgingly and despises me at the same time as he he 'helping' me. He thinks i should be able to manage it all by myself (as he think his mother did, even though she had a lot of help which i don't). I also don't think he helps me because he genuinely cares about me, he does it because he thinks by helping me he will ultimately get what he wants from me. Is it too much to ask of him to help me and support me simply because he loves me, not because he will ultimately benefit if i can be helped and thus get through all this all the quicker. He says that only my parents could have given me the unconditional love i seem to be wanting from him...I don't know if he's right.

I almost feel i need to start my life afresh, i am a different person now, i am myself and am not scared to be myself and to stand up for myself. The only relationship that seems to have survived all this change in me is the one with a friend who i have known since i was 16 ie 22 years. All my other significant relationships were completely unhealthy and i have either ended them or limited my contact with the other person. Neither of those options will work with DH and talking to him doesn't seem to work either as he just can't 'see' or understand what i'm saying. I don't think he will have any understand unless and until he embarks on the same kind of journey as us, but he has no intention of doing so, he thinks he hasn't got any issues.

OnePlusOne, it doesn't sound like you feel very loved at all . It doesn't sound like your DH makes you feel special or like he admires you very often . We admire you hugely on here! I think your DH is right in one thing, that the only people who could have loved us unconditionally were our parents. Would you seriously love your DH whatever he did? I think marriages are very conditional.

I know with my DH that I was searching for more than he could give me and believed a DH could be everything a DW needs. Mine can't though and maybe nobody's can. He gives me a lot of what I need but I still feel a big hole in myself. Do you have this hole? It may be that we can never fully fill it (I am not being rude ) and have to accept that there will always be a certain amount of underlying sadness to live with. I hope that isn't too negative, it is what I'm coming to be 'resigned' to.

I wrote a list of what I want from a DH so I could look at how much of it I think I get. Would this be useful for you to evaluate how bad/good your marriage is? I also thought about what I thought he wanted from a DW and realised I wasn't doing much of it . Interestingly housework was one of the things! And I'm totally crap at it . His Mum, like your MIL, is excellent at housework and housewifely tasks and her house is a bit 'perfect' and her cooking is delicious (mine looks like and tastes like vom ). She always did everything for DH and he didn't have to do much for himself.

I believe DH sees me doing housework and cooking for him and even bringing him a cup of tea or a lager as proof that I love him! I find this flabbergasting as I always thought housework was a pointless waste of your life and who would value it especially a scruffy oaf like my DH! (I love scruffy oafs BTW). When he can see I have done 'chores' and made him feel looked after he seems so happy with me! I can't believe that is all I've got to do. It isn't that hard because he doesn't notice filth all that much. If I just make sure there is no dirty crockery on the side and in the sink, make the bed, put clothes in wash basket and get the kids to hurl all their toys into the toy box he thinks I've done everything!

To make sure he knows what I've done I do a chore, write it on a list and immediately cross it out and leave the list hanging around. I write every little thing on there and he sees it and thinks I've done a long list of chores and feels loved. I always say "I've done lots of wifely things today and been a good wife". Oh and occassionally I shag him as well.

But I'm going off topic, this should be about what you need from your DH not the other way round! Although I've found the better I treat my DH the better he has been treating me but I had to improve first. I think he had just had enough of my depressions and family problems and talking endlessly about bastards. He felt I needed his help all the time and I never did much for him in return or appreciated what he does (stressful job, lots of money). What would make you feel loved? Could you ask him to do those things? Do you need to make him feel loved before he will do it for you?

Or have things got too bad? I still get the feeling you don't want to give up on him, is that right? What do you feel for him? If he was away for a week would you miss him?

I had a phase of 'looking at' other men a lot but this seems to have calmed down, especially since I went back on the pill and my sex drive is lower (but not so low that I don't want any at all) I'm not so blinded by sex and am looking more at the other things which are good in our marriage.

Thanks as usual for putting up with my long drivel

Thank you AN for reading my post and taking it seriously. I am actually amazed at how similar we seem to be and also how similar our relationships with our DH's seem to be. My DH also keeps going on about me looking after him and i think that is how he will feel loved, by how much and what i do for him. I find this really hard to understand, as i think he should know i love him because i beleive in him and would always stand by him no matter what.

You have really opened my eyes......I can see he is showing me he loves me in the way he needs to be loved ie by doing things for me and I am showing him he is loved in the way I need to be loved, by always being on his side and feeling protective about him if anyone criticises him. But the trouble is by doing that neither of us is actually giving the other person what they need. I think if i talk to him along those lines he will understand a lot better.

You are right in that I don't want to give up on him, he is a good, kind, honest and decent person. I just want to feel he is 100% on my side, when at times it feels the whole world is against me and blames me for everything when in fact I am the victim and have suffered so much.

I do think you are right about the hole inside me, it is definately there and i am always looking for it to be filled, but it can never be filled, the time for that has gone and can never be recovered. I know that intellectually, but i suppose not emotionally.

I wanted to respond to one of your earlier posts, about how you felt when your DC's came and jumped on your bed first thing in the morning. Mine don't do that exactly, but I think what you might be talking about is feeling your personal space is being invaded. That is what i find with my DC's, I know they are just being normal kids, but sometimes when they come and tickle me and climb all over me or are careless and elbow me or whack me when doing headstands etc I feel like screaming to them to go away and stop touching me. I guess DC's have to learn about respecting other people's personal space and boundaries and our DC's are too young to understand that yet. I keep telling DD that i don't like being tickled but she does it anyway and i feel like a right spoilsport and so guilty but I hate it. I really value my personal space and don't take kindly to it being invaded by anyone, even my DC's. Recognising that this is what is happening has kind of made me feel better. Do you think this might apply to you? I can understand that first thing in the morning you want to have a bit of time to wake up fully and get yourself together (mentally) before having to deal with the DC's so i can fully understand this driving you mad, it would me too.

All the things you have said about your DC's apply to me to. I am also an introvert and DD i smost definately an extrovert, she is extremely sociable and wants and needs people around her (preferably all watching her). So it often falls to me to be her audience when i would much rather be left alone to process my thoughts and emotions. It is a clash of personalities for sure. Again recognising this makes me feel better about not always enjoying her being around, i have been feeling dreadful about feeling i just don't like DD very much.

I also wish that I had somehow been able to go through this process a few years before having DC's. (I know it would have been impossible really as i was having DD that first triggered things for me, but anyway). Having to go through it all whilst at the same time having to be constantly 'on call' to 2 young and demanding DC's has been and still is so hard. I don't get the time and space i need to process my thoughts and emotions, my brain is constantly in overdrive, but i am always having to push my thoughts aside to tend to the DC's needs. I think this accounts for a lot of my frustration and lack of enjoyment at having the DC's around. They are gorgeous, lovely children, but because they need so much of my time, attention and energy, it leaves little left for myself and I am quite often at bursting point with the pressure of needing some time and space to offload, think, write, read etc.

I also feel i have slowly been finding myself, finding out who i really am, experiencing consciously my emotions for the first time, my brain seems to be awakening from it's coma and feels more alive and alert than it ever has, but I am denied the freedom to go out and explore the world as the new, real, me, to explore and realise my potential, my abilities, because i am effectively a 'slave' to my family. I don't have the freedom to say, go back to uni as i would dearly love and see how well i can do instead of the mediocre grade a achieved years ago when most of my energies were taken up with trying to survive abuse and neglect instead of being focussed on my studies. I know that i was a lively, bright and intelligent child, and i feel that those qualities have not in fact been lost as i thought they were, i think they have survived intact and are ready and waiting to be explored and stretched and developed, but my situation means that this is impossible, at least for the time being. Perhaps once both DC's are settled in full time school and need me a little bit less, i will have the opportinity (finances permitting) to go back to uni and try and achieve what i know i am capable of.

I feel like i have been sleeping all this time, for the past 38 years, now i am awake, there is so much i want to do, but i can't because my family need me so much. I'm sorry if i sound selfish and ungrateful for what i do have, but i feel i have never had a chance to properly live my life and i am scared i may never get the chance, that i will always have to put my own needs second, after that of my DC's.

I just want to say oneplusone, that I know exactly where you're coming from regarding your husband. I do believe that if we keep developing our sense of self that we can survive within these relationships without having to go down the divorce route. Maybe divorce (at least for me) may be something to think about after the kids have left home, but for now I know that I am more emotionally stable in this marriage than I'd be as a single mother. I have major issues with DH's mother, who is a vindictive, domineering narcissist, but who can do no wrong in his eyes. If we ever did divorce it would definitely be because of the way I am always 'in the wrong' when I mention her disgusting behaviour towards me and towards her own family.

Also I wanted to say that your last post, about the bright little girl still being inside you, was fantastically positive! I believe in this too, and am trying to find my niche by doing academic work (translating/writing). I was recently shocked to find that I'm good at it. I'm angry that one of my lecturers (a woman-also a bully) never ever gave me the credit or encouragement I needed. I thought I was mediocre to rubbish at my particular subject and its only in the past month, since I've started this new work that I've found I'm quite good at it. This has only been because I have new, freed up energy available after cutting my mother out, and keeping MIL at long arms length.

Hi, all. I have been reading a very interesting article. It is about the historical evolution of childhood. I found it interesting as it gave me a lot of insight into the likely childhood's of my grandparents and greatgrandparents and their parents before them. Learning about my family's history in this way adds a whole new dimension to what I have gone through, for me, in a positive way. I suppose it 'depersonalises' it and helps to re-affirm that what i went through was in no way my fault.

Childhood abuse is clearly passed down from generation to generation, unless and until a particular generation recognises the abuse and takes steps to stop it. All of us on this thread are the generation who are taking steps to stop the child abuse present in our families.

Just a word of warning, I found the article upsetting at times, so if you are not feeling strong at the moment, perhaps it would be best to leave it to another time to read it.

nospank.net/demause1.htm

I called my sister this morning, as she seemed very upset when we were talking on the phone yesterday. As soon as she answered the phone and realised it was me, she sounded quite cold, said she was busy and said she would call me back later. This is in contrast to all our previous conversations recently when she has always sounded pleased and happy when i call and has always been warm and friendly towards me.

I suspect that she is p*ssed off with me because i did not respond as she wanted me to yesterday when she was telling me about our mother's heart condition. I am sure that she was, subconsciously, hoping that the news about my mother would cause me to change my mind about cutting off my parents, and I would come running back, ready and willing to act as their toxic dumping ground again. Because I stood my ground, quite calmly, (pat on the back for me ), she was left with the only response available to her: blame and anger towards me, in exactly the same way she and my family have always treated me.

I admit that when I called her and immediately sensed her coldness towards me, i felt scared, anxious and worried. But I now know that was my 'inner child' responding to my bullying sister. I did feel scared and upset for a while but after some time pondering, I realise am no longer that child I once was, scared and afraid of her nasty sisters, I am an adult who can stand up for herself.

This little episode has shown me that nothing has changed, my sisters are still the nasty, toxic, selfish, bullying people they have always been, (my parents have taught them well) and I would do well to stay away from them, which I fully intend to do. Perhaps there is still a little part of me that is still attached to them, but episodes such as this one will help to break that attachment.

On the positive side, a friend I have not been in touch with for years suddenly got in touch with me out of the blue. I told her a bit about what I have been going through over the past couple of years and she has been incredibly supportive, sympathetic and understadning. I think I will slowly have to learn to let go of my sisters and 'replace' my relationship with them with new, healthy relationships with other (non-toxic) people.

OnePlusOne/Sakura, you sound like you are being strong and positive at the moment .

OnePlusOne, I read that article, it is horrific! I can't believe it can be true yet I can't believe it would be made up either. I don't want to believe it is true. I wonder if it was really as common as the author says. I feel really fortunate not to be born in a country where really bad things happen frequently. This just seems down to luck and nothing else which is scary as we have no control over it! This highlights the fact that if you have been abused it is not your fault, it is simply "bloody bad luck" as my therapist put it.

I do think that child abuse now is more common than most people think. Probably because families keep it so secret.

DH found out about a colleague's tragic childhood yesterday and now feels that because he knows two people with difficult childhoods that he is really fortunate to have had the one he had. Hers sounded horrific to me yet he thought of mine and hers as equally bad - which just shows it is hard to judge how bad different experiences are compared to each other.

I think perhaps that the lasting effects of betrayal and abandonement and rejection and destruction of character/spirit might feel similarly bad for people who were abused in different ways even if the abuse at the time during childhood felt worse for some people than others eg more physical pain, although I can see that some people are likely to be more traumatised by more extreme events for a longer time.

My children are being very noisy and very active and I feel a bit overwhelmed by too much stimulation when I like stillness. It means that when DD comes near me to talk (gibberish) I feel like running away. Right, must think like the book I'm reading says - they are showing their zest for life, which is something to admire. Just now I had a strange idea of imagining them like young tigers or lions playing with each other like on nature programmes and how normal and natural and ok that is.

Am I supposed to absorb their excessive energy like that article says which would then 'moderate' them rather than not being able to cope with it because of my own 'problems' and taking it out on them, making them absorb my (negative) feelings instead. According to that article, I am not strong enough to be a mother. This is quite depressing.

AN, have to go and pick up DS so just a quick response. Yes the article was horrific and yes, we were bloody unlucky to have the parents we have.

Re your children, i think the only response you can give them is your genuine response ie respond with your true feelings. Be true to yourself; that is what both you and they deserve. Of course you need to 'moderate' your response in a way that your young DC's can understand, but nevertheless, I firmly believe that to 'pretend' in any way with them is not the right way to go.

I am sure you're worried about damaging your children which is why you are anxious about how you should respond to them. The article I think gives us an answer to this worry. It showed that the degree of abuse lessened over the generations until, at least in the West, we have reached the point where we are now. I think the 'healing' works the other way around. ie it increases with the generations. So you are healing yourself and because of this your DC's will be less damaged than you were, their children will be less damaged than they were, etc etc. I think it is too much to expect one generation to fully heal the next generation, it is something that happens over the course of many generations.

So I would say, do your best to stop worrying about damaging your children, I think you can rest safe in the knowledge that they WILL be far less damaged than you were, simply because you have the insight your parents never had. Respond to your DC's in a way that is true to yourself, but explain it in a way they can understand. That is all you can do I think and it is good enough IMHO.

You are strong enough to be a mother, to face up to your childhood in the way that you are takes the greatest courage and if you can do that you can do anything.

I apologise for how crap I am at supporting you all. TBH I find the posts so long (having trouble with my eyes atm) and I have no idea who has been through specifically what so I don't feel I can help. If it isn't a real cheek there is something I would like to talk to you all about.

I don't think it's a cheek, you don't have to be helping other posters all the time. It is difficult to remember each person's story when the details are often far down the thread or in bits here and there.

Thank you.

I read a story in Chicken Soup for the Mother's Soul the other day and one of the stories was about forgiving the mother who sent her father away (hospital, he was mentally ill/depressed) when she was a child and she hadn't thought of doing so. It made me wonder whether I should forgive my mother.

For what reasons do you think you should forgive her? I've thought a lot about forgiving my parents and brother and my therapist seems to not like it. He says if you go from someone hurting you, straight to forgiveness, without letting yourself feel the anger and process the anger in between, then that is no good for you.

I am thinking it might make things easier for me. She really doesn't give a stuff as she doesn't see she ever did anything wrong, and being angry and bitter is so wearing at times.

I hate myself for being bitter as that isn't who I am.

I hate myself for still wanting a mum.

So you do actually still feel angry and bitter but you want to 'force' yourself to deny your feelings because feeling that way makes you think you are a bad person?

If you are going to forgive someone I think you have to understand why they did what they did. Do you understand your mother's reasons? I feel that I understand my family's 'reasons' but Therapist used to keep saying to me "These things explain their behaviour but they do NOT excuse it".