Is anyone else in that horrible 'no mans land' phase of your marriage/relationship - you have young children or babies, no sleep, staring at the tv every night, no real connection to one another but no energy to change...

[peggotty]

Sorry, that's a stupidly long title but does anyone recognise this? We have a dd who is 3.5 and a 6 month old ds who doesn't sleep well. We are both permanently knackered zombies, me from getting up with ds and dh because he suffers from bad insomnia. Once the dc are in bed we just collapse in front of the telly (or me on mn), barely talk and then slouch up to bed for a night of non-sleep. It's utterly crap. We can't go out at night because ds wakes so frequently and randomly and won't take a bottle. ATM it just feels llike we are existing side-by-side with no real connection. Although we do talk to one another about how rubbish things are just now, and that it will get better etc, but WHEN! How can we perk ourselves up without being able to get out in the evening?

Just keep going. The kids will get bigger. You will start feeling better. Eventually, honestly.

I would quite happily have killed DP at this stage.

Me. I am. Totally. Except that ds is 13 months (dd is 3.5) so we've got an extra 7 months of cumulative exhaustion.

Turn off the tv and have dinner at the table once a week. Force yourselves to have sex. Have 15 minutes lying on the bed together saying "ugh what a day" when the dcs are in bed.

We frequently remind ourselves this is just a passing phase. And that deep down we do still love each other very much indeed, and this is probably a low point.

find time to be nice to yourself - remember no-one else is keeping you as a priority at this stage.

tell yourself how great you are doing. I didn't when I was at this point and picked at all my faults. Identify what you have done well and congratulate yourself.

couldn't agree with motherinferior more!

This is me too. Only DS2 is 18 mths !!

Well we are past the worst now because we have had a few months (only a few mind!) of almost proper nights.

We have dinner together (but with the DS so it's just messy and noisy).

We both work full-time so are at full-stretch and dealing with people all day (teachers).

I have been through hell this year wondering if we've just lost our way or whether I want a divorce.

Don't feel like we even like each other most of the time and tend to spend evenings apart - DH doesn't want to go out and to be honest we both need time alone in peace and quiet in the evening.

Things are getting better for us now that
A) it's the holidays so more time to relax
b) we are getting more sleep.

Don't underestimate the effect sleep deprivation is having on you - I spend most of this year in a blur borderline depressed.

Hang on in there - you are not alone - I SO know that feeling - it's very sad isn't it feeling so far apart?

I have started thinking of this period as the 'pre-school' phase, and that it's just hard graft. I find myself staring wistfully at families with older, more independent children and thinking how easier it will be in a few years. Although I know that older children bring plenty of problems of their own. I feel like I could cope a lot better on a decent nights sleep.

Yes, I could happily kill my dh at the moment, but it's is birthday today so I'd better wait til tomorrow!

If your kids are NT, yes it will get easier. Honestly. Mine are now both school age and oh it is so much easier.

I agree with MI, it happened to us too but, thankfully it passed. You just have to force it for a while.

I think it never looks that hard for other people either peggotty.

I was discussing this with a friend the other day.

She went on a Eurocamp holiday and felt they were the only ones finding it hard graft.

But really anyone with under-fives finds it tough, don't they?

I worry that I'm wishing away the "cute" years for the sake of a quiet life - it genuinely is so much easier once you can rely on them sleeping and get an hour or so off while they watch TV or play unsupervised.

It definately helps to consider this stage a phase. There's a zillion things I'd like to do (clean and organise my house, start running, tonnes of jobs at church etc etc) that for various reasons just aren't easily do-able in this "pre-school phase". It won't be like this forever!

It's the horrendous groundhog-day quality to life.

I think it's even harder if you are someone who "likes to get things done".

DH and I are driven demented feeling we have got nothing done in a day because we are either too tired or napping!

Now we take turns having a lie-in (til 8.30am!) and we always have a nap in the afternoon at weekends or at least a lie-down with a book (or a lie-down without a book !)

HAven'tSlept you're so right - I can get nothing done at the moment and IT'S DOING MY HEAD IN!!!

I can spend entire days tidying but just seem to move the mess from room to room. Even getting out of the house takes about half an hour. Went into town yesterday (with my sister to help) and only went to 4 shops to return things and the whole trip took over 2 hours.

I just have to aim to do everything I want to do while my lovely toddler naps or in the evenings.

We've all been through this, Peggotty. Honest to God it's so awful but you do get through it eventually and once the youngest is 3 it suddenly, magically gets much easier for long periods of time. I used to put all sharp/heavy objects in drawers and cupboards cause I didn't trust myself not to do in DH some days!

Haventslept, sounds like you've got a good system going! I would say that I am naturally quite lazy, but I can't stand the fact that I can't get the house even vaguely beyond 'surface' clean. I have no, absolutely no, surplus energy for anything at the moment.

I think you just have to accept that peggotty (not getting anything else done).

Getting out of the house will get easier but it's true that we have also learnt with little ones to really scale down what we are doing.

I would tend to try to pack lots of things into one morning - you know, trip to the library, shopping on the way back, pop into post office...

Impossible with 2 under-fives I think logistically.

But I totally sympathise with the feeling of days going by and nothing done.

We are only now starting to invite people for dinner etc - we have a lot of invitations to pay back but we just couldn't envisage it up til now.

At least you and your DH have acknowledged together that it's hard.

That sounds positive.

Better than just screaming at each other anyway.

But it's a bit lonely isn't it?

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oooh I know all about competitive tiredness oops - we do this constantly - please tell me how to stop?!

you have just described my life atm
2.5 and 4 month old
i worry i am wishing their young years away longing for it to get easier
dh & i are in a pissing contest most days re. who is the most knackered
moving crap from room to room

you are not alone

Peggotty listen, I have 3 kids, I'm 51 now and my two older DC are grown up and independant. I have DD of 10yrs now with me.

I can remember those first few years, DD1 and DS2 were 2 years apart. I remeber being fed up with crunching over cereal on the floor at night, kicking toys outta the bed, smelling something bad and remembering I hadn't put that diaper out to the bin and it was still under the bed. Runny noses, measles, sleepless nites, fighting and squabbling when out on trips, sharing the bed all four of us...

These days are the best days.

Yes you're tired, exhausted, fed up with mess and crap. House never organised, always stretching another hour outta 24 hour day. Never really getting time to look at your partner in any depth..

But when they grow up and are gone on with their lives... you suddenly wish those days were back, they are totally yours right now. All yours.

My Mum used to say: Enjoy them now as they are only on loan to you.

It is so true, you'll see. Time will come and you'll feel like I do sometimes. I just wish those 'close' days were back. It doesn't seem like it now, but those years fly by at fastest pace, before you know they are grown up and gone...

We went through this and it was exactly as you described. It is so hard. I know it is really hard for you to believe it will get better but IT WILL . You all love each other so are sticking with each other through this and will come out stronger.

We really concentrated on getting the sleep thing sorted because not getting enough sleep is the most damaging thing. Read every book on sleep techniques and try everything until something works!

We found a technique would work for a few weeks then suddenly stop working and we had to find a new one!

Things that worked at different times - shaking a rattle fast in DD's face, controlled crying (DD), putting out of tune radio in the cot (for DS), playing music for DS (we chose Enigma album), patting them rythmically on the chest, Loads of milk before bed. You've probably tried all of that already.

God I am totally here, and we only have one DS 22 months. We moved house 2 days ago though so feeling particularly sorry for ourselves. We are quite snappy, knackered, just long for naps and have zero friends, (literally) in the city we've now lived in for 7 months. There are colleagues, mums I see at the playground but no actual friends whatsoever.

DS is gorgeous and I love DH even more than ever but there is this slightly nightmarish quality of doing boring stuff all the time and having no life, and feeling like once this is over we'll actually not be that young any more and the best part of our lives will be over. Ho hum.

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