Is anyone else in that horrible 'no mans land' phase of your marriage/relationship - you have young children or babies, no sleep, staring at the tv every night, no real connection to one another but no energy to change...

[peggotty]

Sorry, that's a stupidly long title but does anyone recognise this? We have a dd who is 3.5 and a 6 month old ds who doesn't sleep well. We are both permanently knackered zombies, me from getting up with ds and dh because he suffers from bad insomnia. Once the dc are in bed we just collapse in front of the telly (or me on mn), barely talk and then slouch up to bed for a night of non-sleep. It's utterly crap. We can't go out at night because ds wakes so frequently and randomly and won't take a bottle. ATM it just feels llike we are existing side-by-side with no real connection. Although we do talk to one another about how rubbish things are just now, and that it will get better etc, but WHEN! How can we perk ourselves up without being able to get out in the evening?

Although I am (just) out of this phase, I can completely empathise.

Sleep deprivation is probably the biggest challenge most marriages face, in the early years.

If you can keep your sense of humour and remember 'this too shall pass', it really helps.

We used to take it in turns (with me getting lion's share) to have an afternoon snooze with baby at weekends; definitely helped with sanity levels.

Yes. DD is 2.5 and ds due in 8 weeks or so, so figure we have a while of it still to go, but like most things, I like to remind myself that 'this too shall pass'.

Dh and I had this conversation last week. We have a 4yo and an 18mo. We keep seeing glimmers of light when the girls play together and we kind of look at each other like we haven't seen each other for a while iyswim.

Anyhoo, dh is currently in hospital after a big, big op, the bedroom ceiling has collapsed, the lock on the big cupboard has broken and I need a locksmith, the laptop did the blue screen of death and I fucked up the car park at the hospital in the rain and paid through the nose to get out.

Glimmers firmly extinguished for the time being.

Profyaffle - it all happens at once doesn't it hope you get a big glimmer soon and dh is o.k.

Can empathise as well - dd has only recently started sleeping through (most of the time) - she's 15 months. As soon as she started sleeping, things immediately got better.

In the meantime, a few things we did which seemed to help:-

Have a few hours to yourself if possible. DP used to go cycling on his "time", I didn't have that much energy and usually just had a lie in

A couple of nights a week we have an early dinner (something really simple, a takeaway even) and went to bed at about 8 pm. Just without the tv on, we could lie and cuddle and chat and fall asleep early (or something else if we had the energy - but usually not )

The competitive tiredness is pointless (obviously) - we acknowledged that I was sometimes resentful that he got some time on his own at work to have a coffee or leisurely lunch and he admitted he resented the fact I didn't have the "pressure" of being the breadwinner. Acknowledge it and then don't mention it again. Its a waste of energy you don't have

DH and I have been talking about how we feel like we're both on a treadmill of full time work, caring for ds aged 2, study, housework ... We collapse for respite in front of the television, and there really isn't much on (don't have FX so haven't yet seen the second series of the truly fabulous Dexter, which admittedly would probably make it all worth while) but our social life seems to revolve around the playground and nowt much else. And we're trying for number two, so if we're lucky, this will continue for a number of years.

But you know what? Faced with a choice of no number two and a nice life, I'd take a second baby and a treadmill existence for a couple of years every time.

It certainly does colette

Have to say the biggest glimmer was seeing the dds on Saturday after 2 nights away, lovely to be overwhelmed with cuddles.

Sounds like a shot in the dark, I know, but I was having insomnia (inbetween breastfeeding in night a 5 month old) and I bought two cheapish remedies from Boots: homeopathic tablets for insomnia, and also the Bach Flower Remedy for insomnia. Took them both as instructed. They helped quite a bit. I know from others that antidepressants can help knock the insomnia on the head - either you or your DP might take something?

Just saw this old thread-it is so lovely to know you are not alone-have been pouring my heart out to friend about how horribly extremely grumpy I am with DH atm and how I feel completely depressed about his long long hours and our lack of family time Monday to Friday and she reminded me (duh) that with DS 3 and DD 4 months breastfeeding all night I am so tired that everything seems so much worse than it really is. I did say to DH when we had just had DD-can we just suspend our relationship for 3 months please-looks like I need an extension on that. Anyway just wanted to bump for anyone else out there feeling this way...

yes

Oh thank you for reviving this old thread. Sometimes I think I'm the only one finding it hard and it's good to know I'm not

I only have one DC but I have been almost constantly ill since having glandular fever in September. DD and DH are also ill with bad colds atm. We are all knackered and grumpy, the house is a disgrace, nothing ever gets done apart from the very basics, I haven't had a night out with friends, or done anything nice with DH for ages. I'm feeling very sad about it today

We only have a 20month old and feel like this.
Kally, thanks for that, I try a lot to tell myself that as I completely believe you.
We have been out together twice since he was born that I can remember, apart from trips away to weddings that were stressful in themselves, both times to the cinema, ate pic n mix, laughed at stupid things, was like being a teenager again. I tell myself that as long as we're OK on the odd time we do get together then we'll be OK long term as well.

I know it does get better as ds is 6 and no problem however chose to have 3 year gap between my 3 and no1 and no3 poor sleepers so seems to have been going on for a long time!!

And agree Kally lovely post!!

Just adding in, we have one DS aged 31/2 who has only just started sleeping through. On top of that I had PNPTSD, plus got diagnosed with a major health condition triggered by pregnancy, PLUS (and this was the biggie) Ds was very ill for most of the first 2 years of his life.

We used to beat ourselves up about not acheiving more, about our relationship going bad - to the point that we ended up spending cash we couldnt' spare on relate. And you know what - waste of bloody time!

We were both massivly sleep deprived, 4 hrs in one stretch was good. Add to that the stresses of other stuff - really we were living under fire. Days and weeks went by just trying to keep ourselves above water - keep DS out of the GP waiting room, keep me upright and walking and keep DH in his job.

I think its amazing we all survived tbh, the fact that we actually managed to have sex at ALL in the past 3 1/2 years was a minor miracle!

The other thing I think we dont' always think about is if you've gone through this for years it can take a while to get your mojo back! its not like oh wow Ds slet through so now everything is OK and we can have sex/great relationship again. It takes time, your body and mind need to recover!

Totally agree with whoever it was who commented about the resentment, its natural but you cna't change it and going on and on about it just makes things worse. We now have a pact not to play the 'my day was worse than yours' game. We both have different ups and downs.
Today DS was at preschool so I got my hair done then had a 2 hr nap as I've had a bad week healthwise, DH had to drive in the sleet to a meeting and do a 10 hr day at the office.

On the other hand, last week DS had an awful cold and was up again during the night, his potty training went 'to pot' and I was back to 3-4 hrs sleep, bored, cross, poorly toddler to deal with for 14 hrs of the day, and a pile fo wee and p** stained clothes to wash every day.
DH was able to go out for coffe at lunchtime with a friend/colelague and wear clothes that weren't getting thrown up on!
I think it starts to ease up when they get to about this age regardless of whether they are sleeping through because they are so much more independant. Of course actually being able to go to bed and know i'll be able to stay in bed until 5.30am is a major boon!

Much good advice above. i think best to eat (and joke) together when you can. Also put away PC, turn off TV and go to bed early say 3 nights a week (leave a few nights for your favourite programmes but carve out some together time). Early enough to have a chat in bed even if that leads to falling to sleep.

One of you above could be my DW given that I don't know who she is on MN

Oh dear GOD yes!!

Us too. We came close to splitting up a year or so ago, but weathered the storm and are now back on track, almost! I still don't get enough sleep but we are working together to get us through this tough part (we can see the light at the end of the tunnel as DD1 is 5 and a bit and is so much easier re; sleep etc so we know this won't last forever with DD2, aged 2.5) The key is to acknowledge that it's hard, and work together.

It will get better, it will get better, it will get better, it will get better, it will get better, it will get better, it will get better, it will get better, it will get better, it will get better, it will get better, it will get better, it will get better, it will get better, it will get better, it will get better, it will get better, it will get better, it will get better, it will get better............

yippee, thats me too girlies/and men!!! 3 children, 5year old, 3 year old and 7 month old. I am glad to hear that it gets better/easier.I have so much to look forward to.I miss my hubby & my closeness but reading your posts leads me to see that this is just a stage in our marriage and in actual fact we are stronger than ever!!! Any tips for helping with sleep deprivation long term would be appreciated as I don't feel I want to jump in to bed at every given opportunity! I would sometimes rather scacrifice some sleep in order for some fun!!!IS this wise........

yes, we were kind of like that.
we got rid of the television for starters. well, that isn't true, we have the television, but it isn't connected to the cable. we have cancelled tv licence and just use it for watching dvds.

we spend the evenings getting stuff done, hurrah, which is crappy but does make me feel better about the house
and actually talking which is really nice after so long of just vegging in front of the tv every night

well done thisisyesterday. Often people say they are tired but yet they stay up to watch TV until midnight. This is understandable but you must then also try to have early nights as well. Also, if you can sneak in some exercise, you will sleep deeper and feel more energetic during the day?

God, we both feel so exhausted (dd1 - 4yo; ds 2yo; dd2 8mo) that sometimes I wonder if we're only together because we're too tired to contemplate alternative. It's as if we're joint MDs running some very demanding corporation - Kids Inc? - and we only really communicate about the children and their needs. I do (in the dim and distant past) remember we were just coming out of this phase shortly before dd2 was born though so am counting on things getting better again. In the meantime, I can feel incredibly put upon and quite trapped (lots of fantasising about running away with various men for weekend breaks in Stockholm and Barcelona. I'd barely be in it for the sex, just the chance to sip the odd aperitif, go to a gallery and read the papers uninterrupted)...

I was/am always exhausted as I do my fair share but it never affected my sex desire. I am told that we men fade away after 45 which is probably why we try to fill our boots in our 30s.

I know what you mean lalalonglegs my current fantasy involves checking into some expensive hotel sliding in between freshly laundered 400 thread count sheets -and sleeping on my own-all night! With a lie in and breakfast in bed! And the papers! Not going to happen though.
In the meantime I'll take comfort from the fact that we are not alone and try and 'connect' a bit more and drop the attitude.