Please give honest opinions and advice on whether I should split with my DH

[halia]

possibly long - sorry

Me and DH have been together for 9 years and married for 6 years. We've got one 3 yr old DS and won't be having any more (joint decision)

Its always been a relationship we had to work at, neither of us is brilliant at living with someone else and losing independance and it worked best when we each had our own lives and connected with each other over dates and fun times.

Since DS was born its got worse and worse, our sex life is crap (used to be good) we've tried to fix it but i am getting tired fo trying. tbh it feels like DH isn't willing to change his behaviuors around sex, if I don't like it the way he does it thats tough. Plus he mentions fairly often how good he is in bed etc.

(he does say I'm good in bed too and that I'm gorgeous all the time)

DS has health problems and some SN and its been a very long, tiring and worrying 3 years. Alot of DS stuff has got better this last year but tbh our relationship hasn't imrpoived that much

We can't seem to do everyday 'boring' things without it becoming a huge issue or argument. The only time I really enjoy being with DH is if we dump DS and go out for the day.

Now I know the obviuos answer is that its the stress of having DS but I feel its more than that.

DH constantly moans about not having any fun, but he doesn't DO anything to make it happen. Its like the burden of organising stuff is always down to me. I've talked to him about this and said it would be lovely (and make me feel sexier) if he would arrange a babysitter so we could go out. He never has, its always me who has to ring up.

In a way its like this is a hotel (not a very well run one) he doens't seem to make the effort to remmber anything to do with the house, for example he doens't know what days the bin collection is, or what the phone number for our sons GP is.

I can't see this changing even as DS gets older and healthier. I'm just so tired of trying to run the house (not my favourtie job anyway) and feeling like I get no thanks.

Thent here's the biggie, I have some health problems. I suffered badly from PND when DS was born and have recently been diagnosed with a nuerological condition. Its fairly scary at times and upsetting/tiring. Because I'm so tired, run down and depressed about our relationship I tend to get lots of illness's. I KNOW its annoying, it bloody well annoys me but Dh treats it like a perosnal insult. He has NO sympathy at all and he will ignore any sign of pain etc. In feb I felt really ill, chills, fever, aches, it was like awful flu and I coudl hardly get out of bed but DH just said "well you do get alot of these dont' you, i can't stay home or take DS to nursery I'm too busy at work" trotted off to work leaving me with a 2 yr old roaming freely round the house whilst mummy threw up and passed out in the bathroom. I got myself to the GP who said I had viral menengitis and was very ill.

Did DH offer to help at all when he found out? nope

Its happened again today. I kept having severe pains in my side and back all weekend. DH said it was cos we'd gone swimming and I was very unfit and he was a bit achy too. I tried to explain it wasn't liek muscle pain but he just tuned me out. I went up to the GP and I've got a severe kidney infection and possible kidney stones.

god this makes me sound like I'm flalin apart, I do feel liek that i knwo my helaht is crap but it feels like DH makes it worse. feeling so crappy and depressed all the time is awful and I feel so pulled down.

I'm so isolated as when i left my last f/t job I lost alot of contacts and friends and DH has deliberatly cut off contact with most of our joint couple friends. I literally have no-one to talk to except him and my family.

When we met it was like he was my best friend and lover, now both of those things are gone. the sex part might come back but most of the time i just dont' want to spend time with him.

I know he's msierable too and wants it to work but I just dont' think it can. We've completly lost each other and alt of the time I think he doesn't even know me.

We have tried relate but it was awful, DH spent the whole session being sarcastic and awkward (too long to descirbe how), when we got out I asked him why thinkign he might have felt shy or something and he said he'd done it deliberatly cos obviuosly I'd gone there to prove I was right and he was an ogre so he thought he'd play that role for me! (and waste £65 into the bargain)

I've tried seperate counselling for my problems with sex and its gone nowhere except to tell me I was deeply truamatised by DS birth (early, vicous, no pain relief, tore)

My GP said I'd had PND and shouldn't have put myself udner such pressure to try and get back to normal re sex. I DIDN'T, after only 4 weeks DH was badgering me and he hasn't stopped since.

please help, sorry this is a ramble, i'm just so miserable.

then you know you can, so it is just a question if a split is what you want long term.
Work out what you want long term - take that holiday to do it - and then focus on working towards that.

YOu poor love it is not your fault that you are ill and that DS has special needs. I am sure your DH has a problem seeing the world from another person's viewpoint. FOr as long as you are there you will be made o feel inadequate. I am so sorry for you to be going thru all this. Can you talk to yourGP or ring the local CMHT? you need practical and physical support. Do you have a Social worker for your son? Have you had a carers assessment? This all needs to be looked at. YOu are a carer with health issues yourself. GET SOME PROFS ON BOARD and get strong enough inside to deal with the decisions you need to make. Good luck.

This man is self-obsessed. Thank god he left nursing. Was he a MH nurse? Just curious, as have met many like him. The coldness and warped attitudes to illness are disturbing - stepping over you when you have collapsed on the floor and eating cake I really feel for you. I have a ds (4) who never really slept through though it is improving now.Sleeplessness alone depresses the immune system, so with your health problems it is only going to make things that much worse. You sound switched on, so trust in yourself to make the right decision. Glad you will be ok financially. Is there any chance you could join a m+t group or meet other parents of SN kids. Maybe you could do exchange babysitting so you get some time to yourself and your ds will enjoy the companionship.

Halia, throughout your most recent post your feelings of being in the wrong came through - yet you are not in the wrong. If your DH is making you feel as though you ARE in the wrong then that is bad. He is sapping your self-confidence and trying to put the blame on you. Don't stand for it.

I don't like the sound of his business trip going wrong; if it had, why didn't he just phone you and tell you at the time and then come back again? I may be wrong but I think he is lying.

Whatver IS going on, it doesn't really sound like your DH gives a stuff about you or your DS, and although you will miss the man you married, it seems like he has already gone and you are left with a poor imitation.

I hope you manage to find a way through this - you know you will always have support on MN. Good luck! (((hugs)))

OK so am probably going to get flamed for this, but here goes...

First, I completely agree with the other posters that your DH's behaviour is totally unacceptable and you should very seriously consider getting out, quick, before your health and your self-esteem suffer any more.

BUT I am just wondering, where does his behaviour come from? Is he totally narcissistic, selfish and cruel? Or is it that he simply does not know how to cope emotionally with a difficult situation? Perhaps he feels powerless to help (I know that sounds crazy, as there are many very simple things he could do), and that is manifesting itself as him pretending it's not happening by wrapping himself up in his own world?

I've seen men behave like this before (albeit to a much, much milder extent) and it is SO HARD as a woman when you are metaphorically, or actually, screaming at them "I need your help!!!" and they are changing the subject or going on about their own problems, because they don't know how to make things better.

I don't know if this is the case with your DH or not, and in many ways it doesn't matter as the important thing here is you, your health and your DS. I am just saying it because I have seen your other thread, and because I just wanted to offer another point of view. If you DO want to salvage a relationship, it'll be important to understand why he behaves like he does.

Good luck xx

Gosh Halia, this situation sounds so awful for you - I'm new to mumsnet, and not much of an expert in giving advice, but I do feel for you. For what it's worth, I spent seven years with a partner who made me feel as crappy and lacking in confidence as you seem, and we had a dd with severe special needs who he did very little with. Interestingly, he worked in the social work/mental health field, and was very clever like you describe your husband, but I think this just equipped him with the skills to emotionally manipulate me and make me feel that I just wasn't working hard enough to be the person I should be (ie perfectly attuned to his needs!) and I ended up at rock bottom, spending a lot of those years on anti-depressants.

I look back now, and it seems such a red flag to me that I felt I needed ADs just to cope with the situation, but at the time he had me convinced that the root of most of our problems were with me. I hear the same sort of sense coming across in your trying to "understand" his crappy hotel etc - frankly you are wasting a lot of energy on this kind of thing: he isn't listening to you or your needs, which sound urgent and important, and which you are trying to deal with alone and unsupported. Please save your energy for some clear thinking!

Anyway, I eventually found the strength to leave (how is a story for another time!), and I can honestly say that the feeling of relief was so enormous that a huge weight lifted from me and I could feel the depression just melt away - I can hardly believe I felt so bad for so long, and I think that staying so long actually did some damage to my older dd (no special needs) because she saw me so miserable for that time and I must have been a crappy role model for relationships. Now I am in a VERY happy relationship, so I hope that will show her that stress, tension arguing and tears aren't the norm in a relationship, but humour, affection and kindness. My time in the bad place feels like another country, and leaving was the BEST decision I ever made, even though it was hard.

One other thing, since my exP and I split, he has care of his dd every weekend, and for someone who seemed to do bugger-all when we were together, he is making a pretty good job of it, though I don't think he would have risen to the occasion if we hadn't split. As it is, I now get a proper break regularly from caring for her, which lets me spend time with the older one and my new DP. I am happier than I have ever been now I'm out from under the cloud of the old relationship - leaving transformed everything in my case.

Whatever you do, please remember that your health and happiness are important, both for you and your son, and I really really hope that you find your way back to them Good luck

Spanglemaker,

I don't think he is cruel, although I think he is fairly selfish, at least I really hope i wasn't such a mug to not notice a cruel streak even when we first met!

Overall I think he finds emotions VERY difficult to deal with, and ognores both his own and other people's. He does get emotional about stuff - sad films etc but he rarely tells me or lets it out. I remember one time when DS was very ill indeed. DH came in for a hug because he'd been doing the ironing and ironing DS tops and couldn't get over how small they were and how unfair it was for such a little boy to go through so much pain. But most of the time he seems to use a particular form of offhand, slightly nasty humour to defuse things or ignores them entirely.

he is very quick to jettison relationships, events, possessions etc that don't measure up - hence losing several lots of friends. He judges other people very harshly but won't admit that his mannerisms in social settings can really rile people(he can be very provocative and hates 'small talk',)

If he isn't interested in what you are talking about, he will tune out or move on.

I am trying to support him because I know he hates his job etc, and really he brings the money in... as he says I've only been working p/t ever since he met me as I was doing my BSc as well and then looking after DS.
(don't flame me for that! I know relationships shouldn't be about who earns the most but if your partner earns 5x as much as you do its very difficult to feel independant)

I've gone over this before and worked myself up to leaving a couple of times but then things have got a bit better and I've pushed it all away. I need to have this sorted one way or the other. I'd like to show him this but I'm sure if I did he would pick faults in everything I've said and say he didn't say/do those things or that they were reasonable reactions.

Thats the thing I find hardest, he will say I'm making things up or if i'm trying ot talk about something he has a habit of splitting hairs in the middle of a sentance or butting in so I lose my track it makes it really hard to get things out as I get confused as to what I'm saying.

He had a crap abusive childhood and although in the first few years I thought he had coped really well I'm not at all sure now. He deals with people like he does business stuff analysing everything and if there isn't anything he thinks is useful he will just watch. So in his mind as I wasn't telling him what was wrong when I collapsed, I was breathing, I was consciuos, there was nothing useful he could do and he was hungry so he might as well eat the cake while he waited for me to get over it.

thumbwitch, i know what your saying but I know his work and that is very much the type of things that happens, they try and pennypinch so end up with crappy hotels and not so good cars, and its really common for people to cancel or forget meetings at the last minute. Its one of the reasons I've been telling him I'm VERY happy for him to give it up even if that means a cutting our disposable income by half.

I dunno maybe the best thing would be to show him this thread - and judge by his reactions whether its worth a shot, i'm desperatly unhappy most of the time anyway so it can hardly get worse. I guess what I'm thinking is I would normally expect that if your partner showed you something like this with how unhappy they felt and how they felt your behaviuor was affecting them etc that even if you thought you weren't as bad as that you'd still be upset that they felt that miserable and want to try and sort it out.

OMG, it could be the same person!!

I think showing him this threat would be a BAD idea btw, he would NOT try and understand you through it, it would just be pouring petrol on the situation. As I mentioned, you seem to spend a lot of time "empathising" with him, and though I used to do the same, it really is just a hook to keep you from seeing the wood for the trees. If you tried more to understand YOURSELF and why you allow yourself to be treated like this, you would get much further with actually making a difference to your situation. He doesn't want to change, why would he? But YOU can, and looking out for yourself and ds' feelings would go a long way to helping you to unhook yourself from his emotional abuse (because that is what it is) and work out what you want. Do you imagine he spends even a second of his day trying to "understand" what makes you tick, how you feel etc? But you seem to spend a lot of time and energy trying to see things from HIS point of view, and I honestly think it is causing you to lose sight of what you can reasonably expect from a relationship. If you can let go of doing all his emotional housework and just focus on your own, things would lighten for you instantly, and seem much clearer. I hope this doesn't sound harsh, I just have a different perspective having come out the other side, and I can't believe how much energy I wasted!

halia, sorry, cruel was a strong word to use

What comes across to me is how lucky your DH is to have found someone so amazingly understanding, caring and supportive as you. He obviously has major problems relating to other people, where as you are very emotionally articulate. You are fully appreciative of his providing an income for your family but I don't think he appreciates what you provide for him, emotionally as well as pracically.

I think you need to think of the priorities here, which are you, your health and your DS. They come first.

I don't know how he'd react to reading the thread, but I guess it couldn't do any harm and it may do some good.

I wouldn't argue with him about he did this/didn't do that/should've done the other, just tell him the facts - that you are finding it difficult to cope, your health is suffering and you need the situation to improve dramatically. He can use weasly words to turn around situations, but if you just stick to the bottom line he can't argue with that - you just DO feel that way, whether he sees it as fair or unfair, and that if he can't help you, you will help yourself.

I think you sound an amazingly strong person to have coped so well and be thinking so clearly, and I wish you the best of luck xx

I take that back about reading the thread, I reckon artgirl is right, it may inflame the situation.

It wasn't that I felt cruel was too strong a word, if he was doing it deliberatly then I'd say yes its very cruel. I'm just not sure (and hoping) that he's not doing it deliberatly, so the thing I have to work out is if there is any chance he (and I) can manage to change things so we are all happier or is this just the way he is and I should leave cos i'll never be happy like this.

Will try and gather up my courage to talk to him tonight, hating the thought of it and trying to rehaearse things over in my head. I think you're right and keeping it simple is best, just to say "you've commented about me beign unhappy and unwell and I do feel very miserable and ill. I'd need things to change if I'm to believe we still work well together as a couple."

I'd prefer not to get into the ins and outs of who has done what - I've copied out a 6week relationship course thing I found on netmums and if he says he wants to try and salavage things I was going to suggest we used that. So really all I want to discuss tonight is whether or not we are going to give it a last chance, or whether I should go. Cos really if I'm going to leave I can't face the emotionally draining battle of going over everything, and even if we do want to try and talk it out I'd rather set aside some time properly when we are both prepared otherwise I can see it just getting awful and messy tonight cos I've been in a state all week about it and he doesn't know and will think I've sprung it on him unfairly after a hard week at work.

God I'm so sorry - I keep writing reams but honestly its keeping me focused and semisane! I can't think about much but this anyway and at least this way I don't feel so bloody lonely.

(((hugs)))

You keep writing as long as you need to!

Good luck Halia! Don't let him derail you from your thoughts, just keep going with what you want to say and don't get sidetracked into arguing any of the points. If you say "this is how i feel", then he can't refute it however hard he tries because he is not in charge of your feelings. (((hugs)))

"Yep DS puts alot of strain on us both and at times I know we have both regretted our decision to have a kid.

Loving DS to bits doesn't change the fact that 3 years of illness, Speical needs assesments, A&E visits, broken nights (he still doesn't sleep through) having to give up career, reduced social life, reduced income etc etc can make you feel that if you'd known what it would be like beforehand you would hav made a different choice (ie before DS was a person just the idea of a possible kid)"

Despite your honesty, I am feeling really sad for your DS.

Hi Halia,

I'm sorry, I'm not sure I have a lot of useful things to say but I read your thread last night and was just at what I reading. I really feel for you having to go through all of this.

He has definite issues that need to be addressed which are making him emotionally stunted. You are being incredibly patient in trying to understand him and make your relationship work. If he can't or won't understand that you need more emotionally (and more help generally) from him then I think you would be better off without him TBH.

You've had a lot of useful advice from MNers and I hope that if you do manage to talk to your DP tonight that you can get through to him how unhappy he is making you.

Good luck and ((((hugs)))).

tinysocks, why do you feel sad for DS? because he's had to go through his illness etc or is it because you assume that I would ever let him know that I'm not always sure it was a good decision to have kids?

I mean which parent hasn't felt like that at times, its not HIM its the broken nights etc none of which he can help at all!

I must be doing something right as despite everything DS is a chirpy, happy little monkey with a lovely way of cuddling you better and patting your back if you bang your elbow and a cheeky grin when he gets caught out nicking chocolate from the cupboard.

I'm sure you are doing something right Halia and fwiw I think you're just being honest. I don't think anyone totally understands the impact of sustained sleepless nights unless they've been through it. I have, so I do!

It sounds as though your h has maladaptive coping strategies. His inability to connect emotionally is almost on a par with autistic spectrum. He sounds very much like my grandfather was (dead now). A very intelligent man born to a very cold mother. He was selfish, opinionated and self-absorbed. He was also charismatic and talented. He was a dictator and very controlling of his kids - who all worshipped him. His wife had a mental breakdown (6 kids to raise in a cold wet country with no support from her h who was always in his books) so he took the kids away to a remote island off the West coast of Ireland where they could only speak Irish and had to fend for themselves apart from cooking, which was done by the owner of the house they lived in. Unsurprisingly, my dad inherited much from his father except that he is less emotionally cold. I would say he is emotionally inept though because he once fainted because of something he saw in a film and when my mum was having me, he was in a bed at A&E having fainted and in so doing hit his head as he fell. He didn't even see the birth. He passed out when the doctor said she would need stitches

Anyway, sorry for the essay. I hope your h doesn't continue to sabotage your efforts to repair your relationship. Do you think he will be able/willing to re-learn social skills?

I know I am likely to get shot down for this but this board does seem to lean towards the "if he's not perfect for you then have him shot attitude". Marriage is hard. I bet there isn't a single person who would honestly say that their partner is perfect in anyway (except newlyweds).
The way you've written it, your dh sounds frankly like a cold, unfeeling brute, but would it be fair to say that this is because you've only described edited highlights from several years with a focus on the bad points?
I am not saying stay or go, but I am trying to say that its only your decision and you need to consider all the opinions offered on here with the limited knowledge they've been based upon in mind.
There is a sort of impulse sometimes to see a glimpse into someone else's life as a sort of episode - part 1: woman unhappy, husband unpleasant part 2: girl power kicks in and she walks
The problem is that this is your life (and your son's and your husband's)and what seems like a neat ending to the tale is actually only the start of the next chapter for all three of you.
I don't believe in saving a marriage at all costs, but I am saying think and think again before you break the trust between you by walking away. If you do that, then be willing to risk never being able to get the marriage back and be willing to take the consequences of that for all three of you.

I don't think everyone is saying she should get rid tbh. The things she seems to find intolerable at the moment are the lack of help with her ds and the emotional coldness. Maybe if he addressed those issues (which means her talking to him about it)they have a chance. She might need to make some changes too, though it does seem that she is the one who's been making the effort to rectify things and he is sabotaging them.

I don't think everyone is saying get rid either, but there is a fair number who are and combined with the other thread where she considers a temp split, it does seem to be the way thigns are going.

As to getting him to change... well it would be nice by the sounds of it. But honestly how many of us have had a boyfriend who we thought we could change and then found out the hard way that we couldn't?! I guess there must be a few who manage to bring out a different side to the boyfriend/ husband that was already there, but if it is not already there then how can you persuade someone already 1/4 to half way through their life to change their behaviour and develop empathy?

Yes I agree - that is why I asked that question at the end of my previous post. So she needs to ascertain whether she can tolerate him. She sounds so unhappy though. Sorry Halia for talking about you rather than to you.

Yes sorry Halia. You are in a horrible situation and I really do sympathise. I just think that you have the best chance of making things work if you build on what you've got rather than pull it down in the hope of rebuilding something new and better with him later. It really doesn't sound like he is trying to help you one iota and you are in a catch 22. However i can't think of a single person who I ever met who found it anything other than a massive big insult when they get dumped. It might give him the shock he needs but then again he could well hold it as a grievance against you which would scupper your plans for a later reconciliation. But what do i know? You and he are the only ones who really know all the ins and outs of what makes each of you tick.

He sounds emtionally closed off from everything - Has he always been like this?

HOw are you doing Halia? Have you had a chance to talk to him yet?