Married to someone with Asperger’s/ASD/ ND: support thread 18

[Bluebellforest1]

This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, some have ND children. It is a support thread and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations and try to keep it specific to you and your partner.

these threads have been going about 10 years now and have been a lifeline of support for many of us.

Previous thread
www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5447569-married-to-someone-with-aspergersasdnd-support-thread-17?latest=1

What if you physically can’t just get on with it, what if you are sad and need to support and
some compassion? I can’t ignore how I feel as my emotions are impacting my ability and logic and action. I guess this is a feeling some don’t feel and if they aren’t controlled at by emotion as it’s not logical then they won’t know how to react. I am right hemisphere controlled and they all seem left. I don’t think my family feels much.

My personal family are all maths people’s and engineers, my partners family are filled with similar minded people. Then there is me, an artist. They mock me sometimes because of the crafts and things I collect and the way I decorate my house. I don’t know why I turned out like this, surrounded by a family that I don’t fit into…and I chose a H now who can’t get me on my level. I know there is nothing wrong with me or them but why I had to be the only one born into this. My brother is mathematical and so is his wife. I know they look down at me. I miss people like me, my environment is grey and I’m like a rainbow. When I put my stamp on it these people laugh at the insignificance.

Still though if you are having to sacrifice your life then it’s no choice at all. Especially if you have children, they need their parent healthy and well and not ill from stress or broken from being worn down.

I’m finally choosing myself for however many years are left because he is never truly happy anyway.

I am sorry it’s so hard for you.

I know my daughter thinks none of her family feel much - or anyone at all actually - just her - and that’s a lonely place to be.

My daughter said not long back that she used to think I was a strong person, just carrying on, but actually she’s realised I just don’t care. To me though that’s not true - I believe I do care and definitely get upset, sad, anxious as well as happy, excited and a whole range of emotions. In difficult times I believe I have to get up and get on as otherwise people depending on me would get let down and I can’t just let the sadness overwhelm me - personally I find it better to do this for my own well-being - a distraction as my brain then starts to put the sadness out of it and ultimately behind me altogether.

I’m thinking you - and others - do get on with life at some point at least, but cannot be distracted from the sadness the same as some other people might be. What would make your sadness feel seen to others?

I’ll be honest that I find it quite baffling my daughter can’t move on from her last break up at all though she has got to a point she’s back at work now p/t at least - I don’t know what I can say to make her feel seen? I’ve probably done it all wrong - saying siblings have had similar - we get past it in time and heal though scars might be there we still remain us. Actually she believes she’ll never be ok or the same person - I get that she might have been changed slightly but not to the level she sees it as.

Your posts are helpful to understanding her, but that’s no comfort to you and I’m sorry 💐

Ah - this is both sad but positive to your future. Essentially you can’t be setting yourself on fire to keep someone else warm - whatever the reasons for them wanting or needing you to burn.
It’s so hard to make this decision - but you’re right he’ll not be happy either way, and you should definitely do the best for you and the rest of your family. I think as women we are often designed/cultured into being the one to support or fix, which makes it even harder to make that boundary - but you’ve done the right thing - be proud of yourself for getting there.

@MsJinks that sounds like a really difficult position to be in. Your wish to help your dd shines through but also the pain of not quite managing to do so.

I think my experience is that what makes people feel seen is, on the whole, being listened to. It’s what they call ‘active listening’ in counselling circles. It’s actually quite simple — listen, reflect back what the person has said, or perhaps put it as a question: ‘If I understand well , you feel that…?’
I’m not sure how else to explain it, as I seem to have automatically done this for as long as I can remember (and, as a result, I’ve always had people coming to me to tell me their problems 😁).

But I think there’s quite a difference between listening and giving advice or reassurance. Advice can be helpful when someone asks for it — ‘What do you think about…?’ — but when someone is really struggling, being told how they might feel differently or that their feelings won’t last can sometimes leave them feeling even less understood.

And reassurance can be a bit hollow when you’re really feeling crap. Sometimes there isn’t anything that needs fixing or making better in that moment. Sometimes people just need someone to hear them and say, in effect, ‘I can see why you feel like this. That sounds really hard.’

Thank you for this.

I weirdly realised I do this for others - listen, mirror, reassure more than guide though - in such situations as work or neighbours and I do get a lot of odd confidences imo so yes I can see this is a good strategy.

But I just realised I don’t do it so much with family or close relationships as perhaps I’m more invested in their outcome, idk - tbh I need to practice it more though I think.

I have more recently as it happens, thanks to AI!, tried with my daughter to forgo logic or ideas and just nod along with her views and say oh it’s hard - these conversations can actually continue for upto 4 or 5 hours at a time - if I give up on it she goes to one of her siblings - in my case I start falling back on my old habits of fixing or correcting, or she asks what to do or what I think- and I get the answers wrong so often bless her that she’s gutted I didn’t get it.

She originally wanted her ex to be forcibly made to have a vasectomy - like seriously, she was thinking how that could be made to happen and passing these ideas by me - and I tried to not accommodate those thoughts quite forcibly - but tbh it didn’t work she didn’t acceot this couldn't be a thing so I was just backing her ex not her - though thank god it’s off her radar now or at least she’s given up on me supporting this change in the law or carrying out personal vigilante stuff ha!

But the other stuff where she recalls in a way I don’t recognise then I struggle not to object - she thinks (I think) I fancied her ex or was upto something with him against her - maybe affair, maybe just to be nasty to her together, idk - I feel obliged to not agree there but have lately let it ride to try help her.

However, I get pretty cross when she’s accusing her sister of similar - I can’t abide these false conceptions of siblings who love and support her - but I just shut it straight down and refuse to listen - I know she still thinks this stuff though and idk how to try to correct it without a breakdown between us or whether to acceot I can’t change it?

I gave up on changing her views on me and her ex though they made me upset and look at myself to start - and just a bit sick inside now - but if I contradict her recollections then I’m lying in her book just to be horrible or deceitful.

Sorry long post of just a very few examples of her thinking and my bad responses - but any ideas on this - maybe the clarification would work, but I’ve sort of tried it and it confuses her. I’m a bit crap as I dread these exchanges and in person I fear violence too though perhaps shouldnt any more as it’s reduced and probably only a possibility nowadays if she is drunk.

Thank you again - my other daughters may appreciate my recognition I am better with strangers than them if I can put the better into practice at least!

@Marshmallowkiss re living long illness, what I’ve learnt is that it’s extremely difficult to understand what it means to be ill if you haven’t been ill yourself.
Imdo t think it’s an ASD/ND/NT thing. I think it’s just such a different experience to what people know that they can’t comprehend it.

Of all people around me, family, friends etc… only ONE person actually Googled my illness. And that’s probably because biology is her area. One other friend is very happy to accommodate my needs. That’s it.

In the same way, it’s pretty common for doctors to say ‘I got <insert the condition they’ve treated as specialist/GP> and I never realised how devastating/hard work it was’ until they got that illness themselves. A breast surgeon working with cancer patients said that she never realised how harsh chemotherapy is until she had breast cancer herself….

So yes my experience is that changes mostly happen only when you ask for them and ‘force’ (for want of a better word) them to happen. They rarely happen out of the good heart of people.
The genuinely great people who will listen to your experience, will believe you and adjust of their own violation are far in between in my experience

@MsJinks that is REALLY hard.
I can totally see how you can’t just accept her ideas of forcing someone to have a vasectomy or that you fancied her ex!
And yes active listening is much harder with close family members. I find really hard to not fall back into the ‘nurturing parent’ role with my adult dcs and to interact as an adult. The wish to guide them, remove their struggles is hard to fight.

Can I ask? Is your dd on the spectrum?
She seems to be so hyper focused on her ex, what he did wrong etc…

This is where I cant understand. Feelings are meant to overwhelm you aren’t they, that are meant to make you stop and listen. You are meant to sit in them and feel them and work through them and come together with others, that’s where I feel I differ from you and from my family. I don’t want to feel my feelings either, I don’t want to be sad, I want to carry on doing things but I am physically affected. Other people you love can feel your feeling and they sit with you, they are effected also. We are meant to affect people aren’t we? In my head if someone isn’t affected then they don’t care because I am affected and I want to help people, my day will change for people I love. I don’t want people I love to be sad, to be alone. I will always be here for my kids, my life is for them, if they are sad I am sad.

Well we think so. There’s a long back story but the Ed psych and the forensic psychiatrist she saw both said in their opinion she was - but it needed the paediatrician to diagnose at that point and he said she clearly wasn’t on the spectrum as she said she had friends - ‘she said’ - sad thing was she didn’t at that stage even have friends just thought she had.

She was 14 by then, was sick of all the surrounding professionals and appointments and I’d got her into my preferred school, which saved her literacy tbh. So I left it, and shouldnt have really. As it has never been followed up and sometimes I think a diagnosis could have been a support to her.

She recently, nearly 33, accepted she has some ND. I finally got her to drs recently with latest thing as she was spiralling, and so tortured but also becoming delusional as in apparent visual and auditory hallucinations not just the strange ideas I outlined. The dr was great and the ADs have settled my daughter somewhat, but whilst we also got a referral under right to choose she won’t do the pre screening they have now requested. Tbh if she did the ASD would be answered differently to my reality anyhow, how she understands people and motives etc, so would be unlikely to progress.

She is occasionally very bad and just can’t cope with living, but not bad enough for forced intervention or outside support so she is left struggling and I’m left not knowing what to do - she lives in my unexpected 2nd house that I can’t actually afford, as I can’t face moving back in with her at the minute, on me I know - and I’m really worried about leaving her when I die for her siblings to manage if nothing is sorted. I just don’t know how to sort it.

Tbh I think she did something terrible to her ex that finally finally ended the last relationship and she’s fishing around so she’s not to blame as she feels dreadful about it. I wouldn’t support her violent behaviour but it’s not fully clear what happened - I’ve just seen this pattern before. She and ex started amazing but went toxic fast - as all her relationships sadly.

The actual break up was just after Xmas and a lot is still quite irrational and very upsetting to her as if it was just a few weeks back. Previously though she was struggling and it was a dreadful time for a while before the final split - for her and the rest of her family tbh.

Gosh another long message and I tried to summarise!

Yes definitely the nurture role with adult kids - I have 3 others besides the one above - I must try to stop this.

I’m so sorry it’s hard for you, but you really have shone a light on where I and my daughter differ. You explain so well - so thank you - my daughter can’t put this into such clarity.

I can be physically affected by feelings - but not for as long I don’t think and in a more minor or different way I guess. I sort of understand why sitting with the feelings together feels right to you (and my daughter) but I’m not sure I could handle that for long, if at all with someone else if I’m being truthful - it seems overwhelming and non helpful to me too - I can see that’s a personal view I inflict on others though.

I’ll sit with my feelings and allow the discomfort of them but in private and minimally. If I’m with someone else and it’s me that’s upset I’d be up and saying let’s do something to distract me and enjoy for a short while.

I guess I think if we all sit sadly it’s too much and maybe not beneficial to anyone - I see that’s what you feel and need though - I don’t think I’m cold but I understand why you and my daughter may think I am now - it’s hard to bridge that gap. My Ma was cold in my view and that gap was hard to navigate as well - but sometimes maybe accept the differences and acknowledge the other person/people don’t mean to be so misunderstanding of you and they’re not truly cold just express differently. It’s a difficult place for you though.

Yes we definitely process things very differently. It is sad that these differences cause hurt. It feels to me like “I don’t want to be affected by you but you can be affected by me”. Because we are, we are affected by the disconnect. The deepest of relationships “in my opinion” is born from the sharing of discomfort. I trust that you will hold
space for me when I need it and I will do the same for you. For example I hold space for my H’s collecting and hoarding but in return cant Make space when I am sad because it affects him. People tend to get through their feelings when they feel connected. Perhaps that is why we can’t diffuse our feelings because there isn’t that safe attachment to our primary carers or our partners. This mis match is effecting us on deep levels.

If we want to have a relationship and it really means something to us that the other person is happy, then we have to take extremely seriously what each need. Listen without putting our own judgment onto it of what someone needs. I find some ND people too rigid on this. We both need to be affected by the other. If the ND person won’t take into account the other NT or ND person then there will be no relationship and it’s simply unfair and hurtful. Being ND means a different neurology, it’s doesn’t mean you can dismiss NT neurology and visa versa. It means we have to accommodate so both can equally flourish.

The danger is to mistake a lack of visible outside reaction to not caring I think. Care can be expressed many ways and I feel it’s not just about doing things tge way tge other person wants but also about accepting your partner’s ways eg to show love and care.

But I agree, sometimes, the incompatibility in needs and abilities means people are not right to each other.

@MsJinks It is failing on comms and misunderstandings now - I don’t think it’s gonna get better just more ‘scratchy’

One of the central core things in a long term successful relationship is comms.

It's absolutely crucial.

I didn't like what you said about his comment "you think you're better than other people". It's not right. If he thinks you think that, then there's a different way to approach it - sensitively and carefully, if he thinks that it's going to be a problem, not like an accusation. My partner now (I am divorced from autistic ex) and I have had to have some difficult conversations, but we do not do it by accusation. We say that there's a rubbing point we need to discuss, and we talk about whatever the problem is, and sometimes very directly, but not with accusations.

Anyone (he or you or anyone else) who comes out with a comment like this is someone who hasn't learned to handle friction/conflict constructively.

I know when someone cares. For example my mums lips had never uttered a caring word or a word of encouragement but she showed up, she helped, she used to hoover or sweep up something or tidy my cutlery draw. She would be occupying my space and my world with her body, sadly don’t have that anymore. I’m talking about those
who do nothing. I’ve got ones who disappear in the opposite direction as soon as something happens and they know they could be needed. I do think some people can’t stand other people needing things because they self focused. No amount of therapy can make someone attentive if they hate it.

I work in mental health primarily with ND people, and many would not agree that relationships are about sharing emotions and helping one another through difficulty.

When asked what they might want from a relationship, most straight ASD men I’ve worked with either don’t understand the question, or say that they want a relationship because it’s ‘normal’. Men who are able to think about this question in greater depth will generally say they want someone to share costs and household tasks, and to support them in stressful things like decision-making. They talk in terms of how hard and tiring it is to do things on their own, and wanting help. They rarely mention sex, interestingly.

The attributes straight ASD men most often talk about valuing in a partner are convenience of access (i.e. living very locally or being willing to do all the travelling), reliability, frugality, professional status, and not being ‘high maintenance’.

There’s a lot more variability among for ASD women in my experience - some are very practical and transactional in relationships with very little need for emotional connection, while others need constant support and reassurance, and tend towards obsessive emotional intensity that can feel overwhelming to a partner. And many contort themselves beyond all recognition trying to be whatever they imagine their partner wants because they want to do relationships ‘perfectly’ and approach them like exams they need to pass by meeting all the marking criteria.

Difficulty with mutuality and reaching a shared emotional middle ground is a problem in a lot of ND relationships.

But there are also plenty of stable and contented autistic couples out there with low social needs, a focus on action over reflection, and an emotional range that runs from ‘anxious’ to ‘interested’ via ‘confused’.

The main thing is that both partners are on the same page about what a relationship is for. One thing we’re all guilty of across neurotypes is assuming everyone thinks (or should think) the way we do.

That’s very helpful to read. I do personally understand that no one is to blame. It is challenging to be a child within this dynamic. When you reach out for attachment and safety you are met with dismissive.

Yep. Those formative relationships you don’t get to choose are the toughest, no doubt.

Too late for the likes of us, but these days thankfully there’s much more awareness of children’s emotional needs, and what is involved in being a parent - and it’s becoming more ‘normal’ to choose not to have children if you know you need tons of alone time and total autonomy and don’t want to be dealing with anyone’s emotions.

Though I think there will always be those with low self-awareness.

I was afraid of my emotions for a long time because they weren’t mirrored. When I am around the likes of my partners parents they bring out this trauma.

Gutted. My partner is autistic, highly functioning, diagnosed as a child. He's been wonderful but last week I found out I was pregnant. I'm having an abortion and hes being so incredibly oblivious and unsupportive its knocked me for six :(

I’m so sorry. I had a miscarriage with my current partner. He did hold me whilst I sobbed but he expected it to be over the next day. My MIL said probably was a good thing as it probably had something wrong with it. There are no words. I hope you have someone to be with you.

@MagicAlixk I’m really sorry to hear this. Have you been extremely direct with him and said you need support. The odds are it isn’t something that has any real meaning for him, he may be concerned if you become unwell but an abortion is too abstract for him to contend with. My DH struggled to connect with my pregnancy, not in a negative way but because it wasn’t happening to him he found it difficult. I hope you are able to get some support from you DH or good friends if he really does turn out to be incapable.

@MagicAlixk I’m so sorry you’re not getting the support you need just now.

I agree with @Pashazade that he probably has no idea of the roller coaster of emotions and hormones you’re on atm.
Is your dh on board re the abortion?