Married to someone with Asperger’s/ASD/ ND: support thread 18

[Bluebellforest1]

This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, some have ND children. It is a support thread and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations and try to keep it specific to you and your partner.

these threads have been going about 10 years now and have been a lifeline of support for many of us.

Previous thread
www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5447569-married-to-someone-with-aspergersasdnd-support-thread-17?latest=1

I was thinking about this kind of thing yesterday and I do think about it sometimes on MN generally. That, for example, a person having a bad temper is not in itself abusive - I think it becomes abusive if they hang it over those close to them as a threat, eg 'You're starting to piss me off, you don't want me to lose it do you?'. Having difficulty managing a bad temper isn't necessarily abusive, but asking for trade offs in order to make an effort is abusive eg 'OK I'll not shout as much, but in return I want you to stop seeing your friend for a coffee every week because I don't like how you gossip'.

Also sometimes people who have experienced genuine abuse can be very good at calling it out when they see it and others can't, but I also think they can sometimes mistake normal human failings for abuse.

Re: marriage when you're older - my in-laws are very much in love at nearly 80, but also kind of weirdly co-dependent and often fractious. My dad remains difficult and my mum incredibly patient, but they do love each other - I think he's getting harder to manage as he gets older but Mum us very accommodating.

Emotions though like anger don’t exist in a vacuum, they are going to hit someone’s else’s eyes and ears and nervous system whether directed at them or not. I think the word abuse is getting in the way. Same like a partner being ND, they don’t live in isolation, their behaviour is going to impact others whether intended or not. This is something I am very aware of with my children and I point it out an awful lot. Someone is going to be on the other end of that impulsive comment you just made, someone is going to see that object you threw over there and it is going to impact them. Downplaying is a response, it’s used to ease a situation and stop it form escalation and it can become part of your personality. It’s definitely a kind of co-dependancy IMO. It’s not healthy. I guess it all depends on how much you are willing to become co-dependant, how much responsibility are you willing to take on board for the other person. Are you ok with your children baring witness to anger not directed at them but in the room, how many impulsive comments that aren’t said on purpose but stick in their heads anyway. Like people say everyone has there limits but talking about intent is definitely muddying the waters, especially if kids are involved.

It may not be the ASD or ADHD making them angry. They could be this way anyway as some NT people are angry and some not. Looking at all behaviour through the ASD lens could be a problem. It causes challenges but doesn’t explain a whole person.

Controversially, that's the view I have of my partner. One of my best friends has autism and he does not behave like him.

I think in the absence of neurodiversity, my partner would still be a very selfish, self centred, intolerant, miserable person.I think that's just the way he is.

As you say, neurotypical people all have completely different personality types.

Described my MIL 😂! My partner is ASD but he is not selfish or angry. He is quirky, lots of trying to do nice things for people, whether they want it or not. People are mean or sarcastic and it goes over his head. He was bullied as a child a lot and didn’t have a clue his mum said. His has an underlying gentle personality so he gets away with an awful lot of other quirks! He struggles with perspective taking but if you tell him his opinion hurt you he is very sorry and will have to make it up to you. Past girlfriends have taken advantage of his nature. I think this happens an awful lot in ND relationships, they get taken advantage of. My MIL has a less appealing personality, ND also, if she hurt you with an opinion she wouldn’t care less, no desire or need to repair. Just like NT folk, some ND people aren’t appealing and some are absolutely amazing.

I mean this in a light hearted way. But you can tell many of us partners are ND. I’m sure many NT in this situation would go sod this I’m off without trying to analyse it and understand it. I wonder if we get ourselves in a trap of trying to understand something to try and alleviate the ways we feel. I myself have done this (and still do). What I end up with is absolutely shit loads of information and still feeling rubbish, just rubbish with the armour of info. ND people often try and inform and put logic and understanding to a feeling instead of just acting because we aren’t wired that way. This is one of those situations where acting on simply the way we feel is the solution but our own wiring keeps us trapped. We can’t “understand” ourselves into feeling differently, we still don’t like our partners behaviour, we still effected just years and years go by.

It's been suggested to me by a clinical psychologist that I am also ND. But I dont want to go down the route of diagnosis as I see zero point. It wont change who I am. Maybe that's why I haven't said sod this i'm off.

The only way I have made any improvements in my own life is by mega self awareness. In a way turning my external experience inwards. It has helped me drastically. Instead of why does he do that….why do I accept it, why am I experiencing this. I am ND and I don’t know how to act upon my feelings and so I have learned to ignore them or analyse them. I have a tonne of internal knowledge about feelings and non of it has made a blind bit of difference to me. I then learned about the way my brain works and it has been working against me. I can’t advocate enough making your special interest you and finding out who you are. It won’t change who you are but it gives you a different perspective about yourself if that makes sense.

That's enormously helpful.

Make my special interest me ... good plan.

As an NT partner I can say I’ve stuck around because I knew that underneath the bits of behaviour I didn’t like was a good human who was worth my time. We’ve learnt about his ND together. But I’ve never let him use it as an excuse, it may be a reason and perhaps we need to put things in place to avoid some triggers in future but it was never a free pass. He has however learnt and accepted and adapted. It also probably helped that I’m an organised soul and he was happy to let me organise him so I’ve effectively enabled his life and taken that part of his load. It’s easier to do now that I know about the ADHD and makes some previous stuff more understandable. But once we were a certain way in I wasn’t just going to walk away because it got a bit difficult (never abusive, just hard).
I should say I have learnt a lot about myself and others since having my son who we knew would be in all probability ND. I’ve learnt to adapt and accept how being ND can affect someone and make allowances in a way I might not have done in the past. It actually feels like the last 15 years has been a never ending learning curve……I could do with a holiday. 🤣🤣

It’s horrible to break up a family. It’s a horrid burden to bear. Especially when the other person doesn’t want it and you have to carry the whole weight of that choice. I can understand why people don’t want to. I have come to terms with my choice after many years but it does affect you. I do know that those looking down this path have tried absolutely everything they can to try and make it work. Some partners work together and it works out and some just can’t. It is a really terrible choice to have to make.

@Marshmallowkiss agreed, and there are severe downsides to breaking up as well as upsides.

Not least fear for the children's safety.

I know that I did absolutely everything I could to keep the marriage afloat though at gigantic cost to myself, and I am a far better mother for having split up than staying together. I was a shadow of my former self by the end.

Mine was 8 years ago. It was an agonising time. Not having a clue what afterwards would look like, emotionally and physically at rock bottom, my self esteem destroyed. Failing as a partner and as a mum (what I thought), just not knowing how to make it better. The difference in me is immense. I can hold and laugh and look into my kids eyes and be entirely present. I don’t recognise that person anymore. I struggle to look at old photos, I look so small.

I can hold and laugh and look into my kids eyes and be entirely present. ❤

and there are severe downsides to breaking up as well as upsides.

I think that’s why we should never judge anyone who decides to stay, even if from an outsider perspective it doesn’t make sense.

We are all judged in life, if you do, if you don’t, so who cares. People give opinions not judgement, we pick and choose what suits. If leaving suits then do, if it doesn’t then don’t but they are both equally valid options and they are the only 2 choices and both will be judged. We have to learn to not care, pick an option, try it and keep moving. Sitting on the fence saying we mustn’t judge, we must be careful has no momentum. Of course we are all going to be judged, if not by strangers then our own children. As if I don’t judge my parents for modelling a relationship void of love, where they bickered and snapped continuously. It was bloody awful.

I so agree with this

downplaying, minimising is a response and one that women particularly are socially conditioned to adopt and internalise.

Keep the peace, accept your lot, push through, everything’s fine, im ok, but all the while young children are impacted by that anger and those comments, belittling them, training their nervous systems for something: a threat? Or for safety?. A child is blank card and you write all over it as their parents.

I had no idea the toxic model I have presented to my children was one of passiveness and acceptance and to accept threatening behaviour as if it was normal.. Now they are both in therapy trying to understand why they were both bullied at school. They didn’t learn to walk away. their boundaries were blurred by my example. I was bullied by my husband and essentially and my needs minimised. I taught them that also that it’s ok to be bullied by their father and therefore other people in life.

I so wish I’d left earlier. I stayed “for the kids” but in the process I caused more damage than if I’d left. At least I’ve done it now and they have finally learnt it’s ok to say stop and walk away.

There Is a trauma response called “over regulation”. Where you train yourself to not react, to let stuff slide, to over anticipate. Like all these responses, its not healthy and unhealthy behaviour has consequences on us.

I’ve definitely got that going on. My whole childhood was about not reacting to abuse going on all around me. Threats and bullying and anger feel familiar, from my brother, to my dad, my step mum, to my teachers, to the headmaster I was regularly bullied by many authority figures and family, both men and women. I remember after my brother had therapy and he told me what we went through was abuse. I didn’t understand until I started therapy myself. Only now can I see id normalised it all. It’s so sad. It meant I was pretty much doomed to repeat the pattern. We go for what is familiar it seems, not what is a healthy loving relationship that feels safe because we never knew what safety felt like. If you don’t grow up with a model of safety you don’t know what it feels like in adult relationships and you don’t react to abusive behaviour in the way you should.

I grew up with no emotional connection. So this was pretty standard for me but I didn’t realise I was emaciated. Absolutely desperate for someone to see me….which got me into crap relationships. It’s sad what we have to recover from. It’s for me now non
negotiable. It’s funny that I’m now in a relationship and have been for many years with an ASD person (who many say have no empathy and don’t care) and it’s bollocks. He has been kinder to me than any of my other partners. I am much more self sufficient now with my own emotions that I’m not seeking validation so badly.

One reaction I get sometimes when describing DH's worst behaviour is people saying 'Oh don't let him shrink you', 'Don't let him grind you down', but I don't feel it has at all. Over time I've got less afraid of his anger and better and standing up to him - mostly my initial fear was I just hadn't come across the anger and it took me a while to learn how to process it. I've never felt I have to withdraw anything about myself to accommodate him and I've always had my own life independent from him.

This is not me saying 'Oooh, look at me I'm so much better at coping with this stuff than feeble women who let themselves be ground down', obviously actual abuse would do that to anyone. It's that his worst behaviour kind of feels like it doesn't come from him, it's never felt like it represented some genuine feeling towards me and it's not trying to get some sort of behaviour change from me to 'appease' it. The randomness and unpredictability can be difficult, but it doesn't feel personal, IYSWIM.

Life would be less frustrating without him, but I don't feel as though I'd feel fundamentally freed in some way.

Adults can definitely process peoples emotions much better. It’s the kids that worry me. Being a child with a parent who is emotionally unregulated who doesn’t have the intelligence or the ability to understand the differences like we can is why I say leave. I hope the best for adults, I wish all adults a free and happy life but I understand that’s nothing to do with me and adults do what they like. Being a former child and now an adult with parents who were not great is the voice I often project. I did not understand that it wasn’t about me. Kids think everything is about them. I think the leave often comes from a good place, a place of protection from something inside our souls. I also understand that shit happens after you leave. I didn’t experience that, I just wished for peace and comfort as a kid. The kid inside of me says leave. But she’s just a kid!

@Echobelly you might be a less reactive person to other people’s emotions, which has helped you. I take on board people’s emotions as if they are my own so this type of partner would traumatise me. My ex was explosive, he said passionate but very unpredictable. He may very have been passionate but I experienced it as volatile. I’m sure another lady will experience him differently. I think way up thread people talked about compatibility and this I think is a major importance.

Both totally fair points. I have striven not to 'normalise' this with the kids. I have been tempted to explain that a lot of his anger is very momentary and blows over in a minute - it took me a long time to work that out because I was so unused to it - but at the same time I wouldn't want to normalise it or suggest it is ultimately acceptable.

Relationships….who’d have them! I hope the next generation fair better. I know my kids are much more self aware than I was, so hopefully have better boundaries. Mine were shocking! I experienced my ex’s problem as a “me” problem instead of a “him” problem which is why I stayed many years past the expiration date. To be fair I had some sensory issues also which he experienced as a “me”
problem and was nasty about it. Had someone actually told me I was ND and had sensory issues (noise, touch) etc would have helped me choose better. It’s all a learning curve I suppose and very common amongst my age with people raw-dogging life being undiagnosed. I have met a decent person now but have a lot of trauma and autoimmune issues. They need to teach relationships and self awareness so much more in school.