A question for the mums in long marriages

[MaxyJazz]

Where to start really. I’m a husband and dad to three wonderful children. I love my wife deeply and, on the surface at least, we probably look like we have a very happy life together. We’re healthy, secure, and I genuinely treasure every bit of one-to-one time I get with my wife, With children and busy lives this is rare.
I think one of my faults is that I’ve poured almost everything into my family and especially into my relationship with my wife. I’ve neglected friendships and haven’t really built a life outside of us in the way she has. She has lots of friends and has done a much better job than me of nurturing those relationships.
I also sometimes struggle with how much of our relationship seems to become part of conversations with friends and other mums from school. I completely understand that friendships often involve sharing and venting, and I know women often talk more openly than men do. But at times it leaves me feeling a little exposed, especially knowing that people may know intimate details about our relationship while I tend to keep those things very private.
Lately though, I’ve found myself wondering whether my wife still truly respects me or even really still loves me. It is a fact that she prefers time with her friends than with me. Perhaps this is normal. She tells me she loves me, and I believe she cares about me, but sometimes I can’t shake the feeling that I’m valued more for being dependable, stable, a decent lover, a good dad, and providing security than for being me.
Maybe this is more common in long marriages than people admit. I don’t think I’m deeply unhappy, and I know how lucky I am in many ways, but I think most humans want to feel desired, chosen, and emotionally important to the person they love most.
So I suppose my question to the mums out there is this: have any of you ever gone through a phase where you felt emotionally distant from your husband, or where the relationship changed in this way? And if so, did things find their way back again?

What do you mean by "emotionally distant?" I've had phases where I actively find my partner annoying - and others where I'm obsessed with him. It seems to come in cycles for me - but we always end up back close again (so far! 15 years together & two kids)

What are these intimate things your wife has been sharing with friends? Sounds like this is the crux of this

If you haven't kept up the things you used to enjoy - friendships etc, which I know is hard with young kids - do you think you have changed, changed interests, have less to talk about etc? Lost some of the things that make you you, as you say?

I don't think it's that common to overshare with friends about intimate details, unless there are actual problems in the relationship, but I think that's a separate issue.

How do you know "it's a fact" she would choose time with her friends over you? Are you comparing apples and oranges - is it easier to bump into a friend than it is to arrange childcare, book a restaurant etc?

I’ve poured almost everything into my family and especially into my relationship with my wife.

What specifically do you mean by that - what actions are you referring to?

When I look back over the last year or so, almost every weekend away, date night, special occasion, or romantic evening together has been organised or initiated by me. I genuinely can’t really think of a time recently where she has been the one pushing for that connection between us. I know she has enjoyed those times, and that’s why I’ve continued making them happen.
That’s probably why I said it feels like something has been lost. We still work well together, have a lovely family life, and I think we could happily grow old together. But I miss feeling actively chosen in that romantic sense.
What makes it harder is that she still puts lots of energy into organising things with friends and social events, so a growing part of me quietly wonders why that same energy no longer seems to exist for us.
With regards to sharing intimate details, I know far more than I probably should about her friends’ husbands, relationships, and sex lives. Much of it is the sort of thing they would probably be mortified to know had been shared. I’m not naïve enough to think that kind of sharing is only one way.
I know I’m not explaining it perfectly, but it’s more a feeling that has slowly built over time rather than one specific thing.

In long term relationships the dynamic does change. It isn’t going to a whirlwind, sweeping off feet feeling forever.

That isn’t a bad thing though, I find there’s much more closeness in a long term relationship. It’s a deeper kind of connection.

You would be best speaking to your wife about what she shares with her friends and say it makes you uncomfortable, as you feel it’s private.

I think you should also work on building your social life back up. It’s not one or the other, marriage or friends. It would be healthy for you not to just depend on your wife for social connection.

How old are you both, and the kids?

Thanks. When I read back my posts, I know it probably all sounds a bit pathetic. I appreciate you taking the time to respond, and I think it’s good advice.

Late 40's and kids in primary and secondary schools

So she’s possibly heading into perimenopause territory. Perhaps read up on that.

I don’t have a 30 year or even 20 year marriage but I think I can comment on a couple of things.

You feel like you organise everything and she’s not putting the same effort into it. It could be that in her head, in her division of labour, you are the one who’s really good at organising eg weekends away for you both so she lets it default to you. She probably feels very lucky you do these things for her.

Intimate life, I feel like I know a lot about the intimate life of some of my friends, some of them way more than others and way too much. However, I do not tell anyone about our intimate life. Particularly as I know my husband would be angry and mortified. So you can be present in a quite gossipy conversation but act as more listener and laughing at what you’re hearing than a giver of salacious detail.

my husband has made very little effort socially to develop and evolve our friendships. That has all come from me. That has been a source of irritation and I have challenged him a bit around that. He makes more effort now. But it definitely sounds like you need to make more effort to have something of your own life that isn’t purely centred on your wife and children.

It’s interesting that you are describing the initiating or organising of time together as a sign that you’re more focused on her, rather than it just being the division of workload in your relationship and this is a “you job”.

In particular, because anecdotally division of joint workload is by far and away the biggest reason for emotional distance and divorce among the people I know.

You don’t have to post here but I think it would be worth asking yourself two things:

Am I really doing all of the organising of dates with my wife? Choosing a date that works for both of us, adding it to the calendar, booking the restaurant, booking the babysitter, clearing up before the babysitter arrives, explaining all the kid-stuff to the babysitter, being the person the babysitter calls if we are needed, making sure everything the kids might need (dinner, bath etc) is sorted before we go out, finding where the restaurant is, driving to the restaurant, keeping an eye on the time, making sure you have cash or bank details, paying the babysitter, driving them home if needed. Or, would your wife say that she is doing most of this and you’re just saying “shall we go for dinner on Friday?”

Is the overall division of labour in your house fair and equal? Are you doing half the work of running your life together including all of the thinking, planning, organising? Or is your wife doing more? And if she is doing more because she is part time or in a more flexible job are you recognising the value of that eg by splitting free time fairly and contributing to her pension equally with contributing to your own.

I appreciate that you’ll think “what does this have to do with date night”. But this imbalance, which exists in the vast majority of heterosexual relationships is a really really significant factor in women leaving their husbands.

Do you think you could build up your friendships? Do you have a hobby or any time out from the family?

It sounds like you have centered your life too much on your wife and that can be quite difficult for her if she isn't the same way. You would prabably be a much more interesting person to her if you had other people you spoke to and had an active social life with. It also sounds like it would be good for you to have someone to speak about your relationship with. It's hard and tiring being somebody's everything. It is great that you are organising all these dates but maybe leave it for a while, focus on your own social life, and see if she suggests you do something together.

In general in long relationships (are we talking 20+ years, 30+, more?) there is of course an ebb and flow. For women I know, once we hit our fifties, there was a pattern of rediscovery of ourselves and our female friendships. It sounds like your wife is embracing a rich life outside the home. That sounds very normal to me and something a secure, interesting husband/partner would support.

I think though there are two different issues here. First you say:
I can’t shake the feeling that I’m valued more for being dependable, stable, a decent lover, a good dad, and providing security than for being me.

So you know she loves you for these great qualities. That's not insignificant. What is the "me" you wish she valued? Can you say more about what it is about her that you value? I'm trying to understand what would "count" for you.

Second, she is talking about intimate details of other relationships. I think you can legitimately raise this as an issue. You can ask her to stop as it makes you uncomfortable a) knowing about these intimate details of another marriage and b) makes you aware she will telling a similar level of detail about yours and you don't want that to happen.

In truth she may or may not stop talking about your relationship with her friends but at least she'll know you have a view on that. And she'll hopefully be more thoughtful about what she shares with you and with her friends.

I am in a long marriage of 26 years and they take work! We all change over this time but you can manage and enjoy this change if love is still there. When dc became more independent I really did embrace the new freedom it gave me to see friends, to try new things and my dh was supportive. I suspect this is what your wife is doing, re finding herself and doing things for herself after years of being mum. You bluntly need to do the same otherwise when your dc leave home you will be lonely. Dh and I work ft, have different hobbies, i go out with friends much more than he does but he is happy for me. Perhaps build a bit of an independent life and then it might make you feel better about who you are.

How old are your children.
You should probably try to develop interests outside the home
or at least not need /rely solely on your wife for company

This is a really good perspective, and it would certainly be unfair on my wife to suggest that she doesn’t do a lot of work around the logistics of making our time away possible. She is actually amazing at organising things.
In many other respects, I think we have a very fair and balanced share of the workload at home. I suppose what I would really love is for it to sometimes be her saying and knowing that she really wants us to do something just the two of us, and for me to be the one sorting out the childcare and making it happen.
But I can’t change the way she feels, and it’s absolutely not a judgement. It’s just how things are. I think I’m really just trying to understand whether this is what long-term relationships are often like.

Have you talked to her about any of this? I would start there.

I think it sounds like you've fallen into particular roles and that works well for her and she assumes it works well for you too. I think you might just be over thinking it personally.

Sounds to me like your wife is on a pedestal. Some women don’t like being on one, it’s a bit intense.
Do you have any hobbies? Do you see any of your friends?

I suspect that she would be delighted with that suggestion.

Why don’t you say to her “I feel like I initiate all of our dates at the moment, and you do all of the work to make them happen. Let’s switch it up a bit for a few months. Why don’t you ask me out a few times and I’ll sort everything out so you don’t have to do anything”

I think that if you have the conversation and then genuinely do everything needed to get you out the door for the next few dates, you’ll see a real dynamic shift in how often she suggests things.

What do you mean when you say you wonder if she loves you for “me”? The reliable, dependable you is you and is important when you have 3 kids. It simply can’t be spontaneous, romantic moments in the way it was pre-kids - love shifts and changes over time and what you need and value in a partner changes when your responsibilities change.

It might be worth thinking about what it is you’re missing, and what would meet that need. I don’t think your feelings are uncommon and is often the catalyst for men looking outside their marriage for a “spark” or because they think the side piece sees them in a way their wife doesn’t. You’re not doing that, I presume.

What you describe is your relationship shifting hopefully into a settled, secure marriage at a stage when that’s what your wife and DC need. Keep working on what’s missing for you but be realistic, you can’t go back to the start bit you can build on what sounds like a good foundation.

I find all this talk of dates and asking out in a long term marriage beyond bizarre. It’s just doing things together. Just so odd.

‘She is actually amazing at organising things.’

There’s the issue. Be something she doesn’t have to organize.

I think a lot of long term relationships struggle in various ways, in fact your post could have probably been written by my own DH bar a couple of points.
I deal with the family admin stuff, work, organise childcare etc as well as work part time. When it comes to thinking to organise a date night, spending time together I don’t do it, usually because I’m too tired to think about it.
Our rare times out are usually lunchtime if DH takes some time off work on my day off so we don’t have to organise childcare.

My DH works super hard, 6 days a week in his own buisness so logistically things do fall to me because I’m the one at home, he would think he’d won the lottery if I scheduled in date nights but understands I’m worn out by our life at the moment.
(Primary and secondary school aged children)
I never discuss personal/intimate details about my DH, he is a good man and it would feel totally disloyal for me to do so.
He is my best friend and my most favourite person besides my children.
I meet up with friends probably once a month, family every couple of weeks. My DH will reach out to his childhood friends probably once a year and they all try to catchup over a weekend away.
I don’t think you sound pathetic, a little lost and I think it’s important you sit down and talk about how you’re feeling.
You do need to do something for yourself, outside of your family. You’ve lost your identity, my DH has a hobby that he tries to do as much as he can in the summer and gets a huge amount of pride from his work.
I think it’s normal to get to your 40’s and reflect. it’s when a lot of marriages/long term relationships fail, at least looking at our friendship group this seems to be the case as we’re all early/mid 40’s.
Your wife will only know of your discontent if you tell her, no one wants to think their partner is with them because they are dependable… My DH knows I’d choose him all over again for his terrible dancing, awful jokes and I know that he understands that I’m a little bit awkward and loves me anyway. We’re a team, it sounds like you don’t feel that way anymore and it’s only by talking you’ll find out why.