A question for the mums in long marriages

[MaxyJazz]

Where to start really. I’m a husband and dad to three wonderful children. I love my wife deeply and, on the surface at least, we probably look like we have a very happy life together. We’re healthy, secure, and I genuinely treasure every bit of one-to-one time I get with my wife, With children and busy lives this is rare.
I think one of my faults is that I’ve poured almost everything into my family and especially into my relationship with my wife. I’ve neglected friendships and haven’t really built a life outside of us in the way she has. She has lots of friends and has done a much better job than me of nurturing those relationships.
I also sometimes struggle with how much of our relationship seems to become part of conversations with friends and other mums from school. I completely understand that friendships often involve sharing and venting, and I know women often talk more openly than men do. But at times it leaves me feeling a little exposed, especially knowing that people may know intimate details about our relationship while I tend to keep those things very private.
Lately though, I’ve found myself wondering whether my wife still truly respects me or even really still loves me. It is a fact that she prefers time with her friends than with me. Perhaps this is normal. She tells me she loves me, and I believe she cares about me, but sometimes I can’t shake the feeling that I’m valued more for being dependable, stable, a decent lover, a good dad, and providing security than for being me.
Maybe this is more common in long marriages than people admit. I don’t think I’m deeply unhappy, and I know how lucky I am in many ways, but I think most humans want to feel desired, chosen, and emotionally important to the person they love most.
So I suppose my question to the mums out there is this: have any of you ever gone through a phase where you felt emotionally distant from your husband, or where the relationship changed in this way? And if so, did things find their way back again?

What interests did/ do you share and what activities did/ do you feel bring out the best of your relationship when you do them together?

For us it could be simply having the same sense of humour, enjoying the same movies etc so choosing to go to the cinema together rather than with others.

Also just to clarify - when you said you'd "poured almost everything" into your family and marriage, you mean you've arranged time together? That does seem an odd way to phrase it and not what most people would think of as being a big sacrifice etc!

But as others have said, it's pretty usual for intense feelings to go as we get older.

Just to add a bit more to what I wrote earlier, I don’t think it sounds like your wife doesn’t enjoy spending time with you, it sounds like she’s ended up with all of the responsibility for the logistics.

Imagine at work if you were working for a company which had regular, lovely team dinners. You came into the office to tables, candles, a three-course meal served. Lovely atmosphere, great night had by all, you often suggest more of them.

Then imagine you worked for a company and sometimes you were asked to create a lovely team dinner. You had to pause your existing work, decorate the office, carry tables, set up candles, shop for 25 people, cook for 25 people, do mountains of washing up at the end. But the dinner itself was lovely, and you had a great time.

Can you see why person 1 would suggest more dinners and person 2 wouldn’t, even though they both liked working for the company and enjoyed the dinner.

Together about 30 years now (where did they go?!), I think men often put less time into developing friendships, hobbies. You are right to develop that side of your life now. And as you have more to talk about, perhaps less will be shared inappropriately with you... Although isn't it lovely that you have that relationship to chat like close friends? Also, absence does make the heart grow fonder - I don't mean to disappear off for ages, I just mean we all want a little more when there is less available. Keeps life interesting. If you are always around you might be taken a little for granted. Maybe that is what you are feeling. Definitely grab life and enjoy it now the kids are up a bit.

I can’t shake the feeling that I’m valued more for being dependable, stable, a decent lover, a good dad, and providing security than for being me.

All the things you list above are part of what makes you a person.She loves these things about you- and they are part of you. Presumably she loves the whole package too.

Think objectively what makes up a person?
Values and views
Character, temperament and personality
Interaction with others (including parenting and how they are with their wider family )
Looks
Memories, past and experiences
Work & hobbies

Which of these do you think she no longer appreciates enough. I think that’s the underlying theme - you feel under appreciated/ taken for granted maybe. However that’s quite common in long term relationships. Which aspects about her do you appreciate ? When you posted you had clearly forgotten that you appreciated her organising most things, for example. Therapists often ask couples to articulate the things they appreciate about each other. Do you do this? If you start to do so then she will reciprocate.

I’m wondering if there is an element of mid life crisis issues underlying this. Years of parenting, the selflessness required to care for young children is tough. Children’s activities, homework, parties, sports, equipment and clothes needs, dentists, doctors, pets. It’s relentless. It’s both moments of magic and an endurance test for both parents.
If I’m brutally honest greater numbers of women seem to embrace the self sacrifice more willingly than men , but perhaps not in your case.

What support do you have childcare wise, who babysits when you go out, or are the secondary age children old enough to be left now. Are there grandparents to help?

I am your wife and you are my DH in my marriage. I agree with a previous poster that she's probably sick of having to make your dates happen, and you could switch that around.

I make a big effort to keep my social circle wide while my DH doesn't. He has nothing new to talk about other than his work (so boring). His outlook is so narrow, I find it a bit smothering. I'd be really happy for him to have more of a social life so I don't feel so responsible. I used to include him in my hobby, but if he won't make any effort at all beyond showing up to things I've organised, why should I bother, given I do all the other wife / life work? There's a huge imbalance, and it is a lot of work to keep up an active social life.

I'd love it if he said I've seen a great concert - I'll book tickets if you'd like to go? And then sort babysitter, dinner etc. instead of expecting me to do all that.

So if I were you, I'd make an effort to make these things happen from beginning to end, and also start going out with your friends, broaden your horizons, so you're a bit more interesting to spend time with 😬(obvs projecting my DH here, but you may be able to take something away here)

Do you have deep chats still? My dh doesn't initiate time together so we are the opposite. But the reason I prefer talking to my friends is that my dh isn't really into starting conversations or talking about emotions / deep things. He is more light convo or banter. So I get that aspect of connection elsewhere now.

It sounds tough. I can sympathise. I'd like my dh to be my best mate again but looking back he was never into being conversation and I just realised when I started to see he wasn't perfect. He also has no friends whereas I have worked hard to make and keep mine.

Our son is disabled and on a drive back from parents evening I wanted to talk about my fears for his future but didn't as I know dh will try to sooth away concerns. I no longer raise worries or how I think our relationship could be better. It's always soothed over or put off.

Been with DH almost 30 years and married 20. This sounds a lot like us except I am the wife. DH is the social butterfly with lots of (male) friends from work and school. I am a bit more introverted and focused on the family. Occasionally our business slips into their convos which I don’t like and tell him when this happens and it makes me unhappy. However, I realised a few years back that I had to get interests outside the family and marriage as one person can never fulfill all my emotional needs. I have done this and now have a great group of female buddies. I used to resent how much he poured into his friendships but I am glad he has such a supportive network and I am genuinely happy for him too. It makes him happy which I am glad of.

It sounds like you are doing an outstanding job as a safe, reliable provider and protector of your family. I have single friends who would really value this. I think you need to take the pressure away from your wife and find balance in your own interests and friendships - outside of your wife and children.

Wishing you all the best.

If you expect to get everything you need from your wife, you become another burden she has to consider at all times. She can’t be honest, because she’s carrying your entire emotional stability in everything she does. She can’t be completely immersed in something, because you might need her.
She has to go out, get away, in order to have a peaceful time.

You need to get friendships and hobbies outside the house, be a complete person without her, so she can relax and feel less responsible for you.

This.

It is very easy to slip into being almost like another child she has to be responsible for. So the logistics of a date night slot right alongside organising play dates, children’s clubs, lifts, supervising homework, buying new school shoes…. It all becomes doing things for other people. She is not initiating date nights because, other than the work involved for her, it is something else she is doing for someone else. You lose so much of your own identity being a mum, especially if you’ve stopped work or shifted away from your career. Are all her friends ‘mum friends’? Are they the people she relies on to cover school pick ups when events clash? To remind her it is book day? Or to book parents evening slots? To be emergency babysitters? Who can tell reassure her your children’s development is typical? Maintaining such a network is not just about having fun night out, it is vital to keeping life running smoothly. It is another extension of her mum role.

I don't think it's pathetic if you're feeling something isn't quite as you would like it, it's just trying to identify exactly what the issue is.

Perhaps you feel you've emerged from the other side of the "young kid" years and are expecting life to flip back to 2015 or whatever, but in fact you're both 10 years older and you've both changed since then (would be weird if you hadn't) and you're trying to see what your relationship is like now?

This is the post, OP.

She should not be telling her friends intimate details about you. I’m a woman and I have hated it when female friends do this. It’s a real betrayal of their partner’s trust. I am sure they would be furious of their partner’s told his mates thise sort of private details about them.

I’ve been married 16 years so not as long as some but I can offer some thoughts to consider.
i think it’s normal in a marriage to sometimes feel closer to your partner and sometimes less so as we all are experiencing day to day life in our own way, and bring our own baggage and way of thinking into how we navigate different things in life. The main thing to help with the closeness thing in my view is talking. But about real stuff not what the kids are doing, what you are having for dinner or what’s on tv. I don’t mean talking about deep stuff all the time but sharing stuff and being vulnerable at times. My DH and I both find this hard but when we do we feel closer. I feel like now I really know him and he me. But we are not perfect and struggle with stuff but we can navigate things better knowing we have someone in our corner who sees us and doesn’t judge. If you want your wife to see you, you need to show yourself. Maybe this is something you find hard and seeing a therapist might help unpack that. Date nights etc are great fun but in some ways are superficial if that’s the only point of reference to feeling close. My DH and I have had very few nights out/weekends away since we had our DD 12 years ago Partly because of limited money and time. Partly because we are knackered. But little things make me feel valued. Bringing a coffee in bed. Buying a chocolate I like. Grabbing a coffee together when we’ve dropped our DD off somewhere. Trying to do some DIY in the house together. Teasing and hugs/kisses on the day. It’s just little things that create connection. I’m not saying things are perfect- there are times when we both annoy each other etc (I am menopausal and he’s currently getting on my nerves!) and we step back a bit and then come back together again.
I also think you need to take responsibility for your own choices too. Don’t put any discontent you feel now solely on your wife’s shoulders as I don’t think that’s fair. You might feel dissatisfied with life but that’s a normal thing to feel at times and you have the option of taking steps to make yourself feel better. I I also think it’s normal as we have family and age to start thinking is this it? Life isn’t what I thought it’d be?
I think you need to figure out who you are and want to be yourself. Your wife is part of that but not everything. Take up a hobby, do a course, exercise, try therapy.
There simply isn’t an easy answer to this and all options require you primarily to do the work. Good luck.

Yes, this expresses my thoughts a lot better. Except we were probably the other way around. It has been lovely to see my DH developing friendship groups, going for walks with friends on a regular basis, the odd hike away etc. I think it is really important. You don't want to hit retirement and not have a life beyond your wife (admittedly some way away yet, but still, friendships need time to develop and the relationship with your wife will be richer for it as you will have a lot more to talk and will probably be happier. Good for the soul).

I heard a phrase once and while it's tongue in cheek, it is certainly how many of my friends feel in terms of priorities after children...

men love women
women love children
children love hamsters

I care deeply for my partner but I could love easily without him. My children - I would never be ok again without them

I have to admit I felt quite nervous about posting this on Mumsnet, but I’m really glad I did. Thank you so much to everyone who has taken the time to reply. Reading through all the responses and seeing things from a different perspective has honestly been really helpful. I will certainly acting on some of the advice.

have any of you ever gone through a phase where you felt emotionally distant from your husband, or where the relationship changed in this way? And if so, did things find their way back again?

Also to focus on your questions…

Do you feel emotionally distant from your wife? You seem to feel the relationship has changed?
No i don’t think it can just ‘find its way back’. It requires hard work and mutual commitment.

. I’m wondering if you have emotionally checked out and she can’t reach you.Or perhaps you aren’t very emotional anyway? Perhaps she accepts this about you and gets the interactions she needs from her friends?

Psychologically maybe you resent her close female friendships for reasons to do with you, ie you realise that you can’t meet her needs in that way. But wish that you could, although it’s unrealistic to think that one’s partner can be the sole source of close interaction.

But you don’t know she’s telling her friends intimate details? Like a pp, I know all kinds of things about my friends’ relationships, but I certainly don’t share any ‘intimate’ details of mine. It’s not my way. They know I will never betray their confidences. Talk to her if you’re worried that she is. What exactly is it you’re worried that she’s saying?

As regards wanting to be desired, chosen etc — you’re just dealing with the normal side effects of a long marriage. The choice is historical. What strikes me about your post is that you’re emotionally over-reliant on your wife because you don’t seem to have other adult close relationships in your life. That’s not good for any relationship. It’s way too much pressure for even the strongest marriage. I don’t want to be anyone’s sole conduit to the rest of the world.

You say you think she only values you as provider, source of stability, decent father etc. What else do you bring to your marriage? Who are you? What are your passions and preoccupations? If someone met you today, who would they meet? What are you other than the dependable father and stable provider?

I’ve been with my DH for 30 years, and we’re in our early 50s with a teenager. I would say that what we both bring to the marriage is experiences from two very different jobs which we love, and a lot of outside input — separate friendships (as well as joint ones), travels, obsessions.

I’m not going to win any wife of the year competitions. I write novels for a living and I check out completely when I’m deep in one. I like a lot of alone time. I’m selfish, moody and I do no housework. But DH feels he’s lucky to have me.

ETA What I’m saying is to invest in yourself, outside the marriage. Get back in touch with who you are. Make friends. Do things you love. That, along with emotional openness and curiosity, will strengthen your marriage.

It’s interesting what you write.

it is a common pattern for men to be very emotionally invested in their wife/girlfriend while women often have friendships which help spread their emotional needs for connection around more than one person.

The times of early childhood are really intense and it’s very hard to keep up friendships for both men and women; women do in general go to more effort to make “mum friends” as they are often off for longer than men (and possibly feel the need more?)

if your kids are now in school it’s time to look around really - the really tough bit is done.

it’s likely by this point (and your situation may be different) that your wife has got a mixture of friends who are school mums/maternity leave friends/friends from pre-kids. This means that quite a lot of her emotional connections are with other people.

it’s a very different stage from the (can’t quite believe I’m writing this) courting stage when you are both wrapped up in each other.

I’m going to guess that you feel a bit lonely - the kids are a bit less demanding, you feel there’s some availability in your wife to start looking after you a bit more and meet your needs rather than both of you totally focusing on young children.

I’d suggest that in all seriousness you work on developing friendships and interests and focus outside work and your kids.

your wife may now not be totally kids focused, but you don’t want to come across as “ok, now you’ve got some emotional space I want nurturing”.

try to build some friendships as well to nurture each other within the friendships.

and consider your wife may well feel similar - if you can offer some nurturing first she may well respond.

You've got a great attitude. I think this is a problem you will be able to resolve.

I also don't divulge any private details of my relationship with friends or family while my friends do. I also wouldn't assume she is betraying confidences until you know for sure. I would have a conversation about it with her though.

That saying really made laugh. It’s so true.

I know it's a cliche, but I think you do need to "work on yourself". Gym, male sports, other hobbies.

To be fair long relationships have their ups and downs too. Sometimes there is a lull when life is busy and exhausting.

I don’t think it’s pathetic at all. I think it’s endearing that you’re so keen to make it a good marriage for you both.

Im going through this with my husband. Dont feel connected emotionally. Also have 3 kids. Turns out he's autistic.

Maybe she is. Maybe you are.

Maybe you are both just a bit busy at this stage.

I was recommended to read "mating in captivity". Havent read yet but basically you fancy spouse more if you see them out and about from afar rather than at home where they are part of the furniture. She needs to view you as separate. I think its true. Even at a wedding or something i see my husband chatting to someone across the room and i think hes nice - id choose him.

Good luck OP!

My question to the OP is: are you geninue or AI? I can't tell. Your OP is almost certainly AI - the American comma is used in a list. Your replies seem genuine - but no-one spells it "naïve" (I copied and pasted). If you are real, use your own language. The advice may more helpful.