For those coping with infidelity (or those thinking of doing it)

[AHundredPercentPolyester]

Hi

This isn't a question, but it's something I wanted to share, as many years ago I came to this forum to get help with my then-boyfriend's infidelity and I wanted to share it here for anyone riding that nightmare train.

I won't re-hash the circumstance, but it was a terrible experience I would not wish on my worst enemy, made worse by all the classics: trickle truth, multiple d-days, and even - sadly - the affair re-igniting when we were trying to recover.

It was God awful.

We weren't one of those couples where the cheater is incredibly self-aware and goes to therapy and starts talking like a guest on Oprah. It was a shit show for a couple of years. He was completely unable to cope with the shame and it took years for him to be able to understand the real reasons or really understand the pain he caused.

We went through three years of complete hell. The rage in me was bottomless, the sadness seemed unlimited, I was shocked by the way that it shattered me but it broke something really core. Through those years I left over and over again, sometimes for months, and he always kept trying, always kept trying to sort it out even when he was ill-equipped to do that.

I could give you a long complicated version of the reasons he cheated on me, but the short one is that he was nihilistic at the time, didn't love himself much or value things in his life and he took something that felt good at the time without ever really thinking of the impact it would have on me.

I remember those days of desperately asking "why?", but I figured out that it's almost always that - when people cheat on people they love. They're a bit fucked up, and they do something that feels good without really thinking of the harm they are causing.

I waited for a very long time for it to feel like "the end", like it was really over, but the truth is that I think that pain does stay with you forever. It changed me a lot as a person, which is sad. I wish there was something better I could say. I am always inspired by people who shake these things off, but for me it was a life-changing thing to experience.

We stayed together - we are almost 8 years now after it all, and I can honestly say that I have the relationship with my now-husband that I wished I had all that time ago. He just wasn't able to give that, at that time. That isn't ideal, but that is just what happened.

What is true is that when someone has stayed with you through years of crying, screaming, meltdowns, and the inevitable depression that they do really love you, and it does build a kind of commitment and deep love that I probably would not have had if we had come to where we are via a less painful road.

I realised this past bank holiday weekend, that whatever it is I was looking for, I now have it. We weren't experts at getting here, but he never, ever gave up - no matter how many times I told him to, and we're happy now.

I suppose I shared this because I think a lot about other people going through this, wanting like I did to have answers or hope. I honestly think it's one of those things that is just devastating. Causes so much pain for so long. You do come out the other side - with or without the cheater - but no, nobody can ever take it away or make it un-happen.

What I would say is that the advice here was the best I got from anywhere - family and counsellors were far less useful, and if you are going through this I hope you listen better than I did, although it is very hard to find your strength when it's happening to you.

Sending love to all.

I'm sorry you read it that way - that genuinely wasn't my intention. I actually said clearly that I would advise most people to leave, and that staying is the harder path. I wasn't holding myself up as an example to follow, more sharing an honest account of what it's actually like to go through, for those who choose what I did. You're right that my circumstances were different from many people's - I acknowledged that too. I don't think there's much more I can add if the post struck you as romanticised, as it doesn't feel romantic whatsoever to me, but I do hope it's been useful to someone even if not to you.

I think there's a difference between minimising and applying context - context that was genuinely important to my own experience and decisions.

On my child - they were an adult and away at university during this time, and was very well loved and cared for, so while kindly meant, this is an assumption from you that's not accurate.

I have, as a note, experienced traumatic times in my life before - including money worries, relationship break-ups, significant illness, and yes - depression - and was a very good mother throughout even the worst times of my life. Something I am deeply proud of, as should any women be if they face circumstances that are really hard on their own with kids.

The observation that I'd tell a daughter to leave isn't evidence of trauma bonding - it's just honest. Most people who've been through something very painful would spare someone they love the same experience, even if they don't regret their own choices. Those two things can both be true at once.

I'm sorry it irked you. The context came out gradually because people asked questions gradually - that's just how threads work.

I'd also push back on the idea that long distance means 'very little at stake' - the pain was very real regardless of the format of the relationship.

The title was aimed at people going through infidelity, which I think it does address honestly - including the parts that aren't uplifting. But if it's not useful to you then I completely understand, and I hope you find something more helpful elsewhere.

That's a fair challenge. You're right that arrogance is a genuine characteristic of some cheaters - I'd agree with that. I think where we differ is that you're applying a single explanatory framework universally, as am I. The reality is probably that cheaters aren't a homogenous group - some are arrogant, some are broken, some are both.

What I described was my own experience of a specific person, and the framework that helped me make sense of it. I'm not claiming it applies to every case of infidelity. My husband isn't arrogant. He was broken. I appreciate that might not be true for every cheater so well corrected.

On your last point - that's a valid alternative reading of my situation from what you have read and your own life experiences. I just don't happen to think it's the correct one for me, having lived it.

There's a meaningful difference between disagreement and some of what's appeared in this thread. Comments about my parenting, armchair diagnoses of trauma bonding, and declarations about my lack of self-respect based on a few paragraphs are not simply 'different opinions'. You're right that disagreement isn't attacking. Some of what's been posted here isn't just disagreement though.

My experience of going through this is that people really often want to accuse you of all these things when you stay with a cheater, and it really isn't helpful for the person going through it. I raised it, because while it doesn't bother me now, it created a lot of shame at the time, and was hoping people would take on board that sometimes what they are doing does cross from opinion into attack.

On my narrative, I'd gently note that you have read a few short posts about my life. I have lived it. I think that does make my interpretation of my own experience somewhat more authoritative than a stranger's reading of it, and I don't think that's emotional bias so much as just basic common sense. I really do hope people aren't so lacking in self-awareness and confidence that they genuinely believe strangers on Mumsnet know more about their life, feelings, marriage and inner world than they do, because that would be quite worrying.

It's fine to read something online and have an opinion, I posted, so invited that, but probably good to also keep in mind that you don't know more than the other person does about their own life.

On the research, you're right that people who cheat are statistically more likely to do so again. What I'm saying is that in my specific situation, knowing my husband and what he has been through to make amends, repair the damage, and address the things in himself that led to it in the first place, I am confident he wouldn't do it again.

A big part of that was understanding the context - because you need to understand why it happened and why it would not happen again in order to feel trust and security. A life or marriage without those things would be awful.

As for what I could have done instead, you may well be right. But I didn't, and I'm happy, so the counterfactual doesn't trouble me much.

Argh, no! Don't do the woman thing - I stuck by my man through hell and high water, he broke my heart and caused me pain, but it was all worth it in the end because he loves me so much now, and I helped him heal...

Fuck that. I mean, great that it worked for you Op, but seriously fuck that.

We can all do better

I completely get where you are coming from.

It sounds like your lived experience of your exh was very different to my experience with my own h. If I had felt as you do, I would have chosen differently and it sounds like you did the absolutely right thing for you.

In my view, trampling over the boundaries of what should be the most secure, safe and emotionally exclusive space for a person, is the most disrespectful shitty thing that one person can (legally) do to another.
I could not agree more with this statement. Tbh when I made this post I was hoping some would be cheaters would read it and think twice. It causes profound damage, and I hope my post gave the real picture of how awful that was.

Maybe some people are unhappy, either in their relationships or with themselves, but it doesn't excuse making poor choices and so detrimentally affecting another person.
I completely agree with this too. It doesn't always mean it is irredeemable though. If the person realises it, and does some very hard work to change and make amends then it is possible to repair - which is not the same as excusing.

If you are at the other end of it in whatever shape that is, then I'm happy for you, but I think you are probably in the minority.
Yes, I think I probably am in the minority, although many people stay for practical reasons like money or kids or similar. I really wish what happened hadn't happened, but I was just giving a perspective of what it's like to stay and repair.

When there's a gap between what you believe is right and what you actually do, you aren't respecting yourself.

I disagree with this statement…. I think fundamentally if cheaters thought what they were doing was wrong, they wouldn’t do it. On some level they believed it was acceptable. And that’s the problem. Our actions are based on our beliefs, and show what our moral compass is, what our character is. But I wish you the best of luck. We all have to do what we think is best for us.

I think part of the problem on this thread is you keep saying things like it's harder to stay (which to be honest reminds me of Marge Simpson "most women will tell you you're a fool to think you can change a man, but those women are quitters!" 😂)

It sounds judgemental in its turn, do you see?

I'm not denying it's hard to stay, and costs a lot emotionally.

But it's also hard to leave, especially when there are children etc involved, giving up the life you thought you'd have with the man, etc.

Both are hard rows to hoe, and it's not the case that one's easier than the other.

Amazing you can hide bottomless relentlessly big massive sadness etc so well.

If the event was worth it you wouldn’t spare your daughter it. If something is hard but ultimately worth it you encourage people to keep going.

You have so much sunk cost with this cheater you think it was worth it. Knowing you wouldn’t want the same for someone you cared about is the honest response.

So you mean because I say it's harder to stay that I'm implying those who leave do what's easy?

I can see your point but that really wasn't what I'm saying.

Being cheated on is the worst. There's nothing easy in it for anyone.

I just meant that if you leave you can cut emotional ties. I'd have found it easier to do that, than to work through it.

I appreciate leaving must be very hard financially, on kids and other things and I'm really sorry if it came off otherwise. That wasn't what I was saying.

Mothers are human beings, who will generally experience sadness - even the relentless, bottomless kind. I think it's about 50% who get divorced for example, and a similar percentage experience depression at some point.

I'm really not sure what you're getting at? Certainly my attitude to a Mum who'd been through relentless bottomless sadness would be to tell them 'well done' for keeping going and getting through it.

Odd.

I imagine you sitting around with a serene, patronising smile on your face while you deliver your missives here, genuinely believing that yours is the "right way" and was "so much harder" than leaving.

But you were dating a man long distance. A man who you say was "broken" & that's why he cheated on you & treated you with contempt.
I think your experience is simply very niche & unusual and I am not sure you have as much to teach others as you think.

But I know you are the kind of poster that will come back on this with another post denying it all & having the last word.

So I wish you luck & I hope you aren't posting on here in a few years time under a different username telling us your "DH" has cheated again.

As someone who has just recently gone through this I really thank you for what you have wrote, it has really helped me. I really hope we can get through it.

I found out at Christmas my boyfriend of 5 1/2 years had been cheating for half that time. We were no longer together as we had broken up a few months previous when he realised, without coming clean to me, that he could no longer conduct both relationships keeping the secrets. It has absolutely broken me and I am only now starting to recover even a little bit, with the help of therapy and medication.

I never want to see him again and wish him nothing but ill, yet I am not a vindictive person. Cheating wrecks lives.

Ok, so your long distance boyfriend cheated on you - it was terrible, you had rage and sadness for three years, he was a bit f-ed up, the pain stays with you forever, changed your life, it is devastating, he stayed with you after all - all eight years (minus the three hell ones) of got-there type of relationship…

I think I missed the bit, what exactly was the very helpful Mumsnet advice you got at the time? You say you’d advise 99% ppl to leave. Who are the special 1% that must endure such devastating, life changing pain?

He sounds a monumentally self-indulgent individual and sexually incontinent to boot; and you're heavy on the 'contextualising'.

I'm glad he's worth it so far, because that's a lot of heartache and pain to endure, when you weren't even properly tethered. Even then, he still went double-dipping; risking all your pain and heartbreak on someone who was just a shag.
I would actually find this more offensive than him falling in love with someone, and thinking they're 'worth it'.

I'm baffled by the hostility.

It's a mumsnet post where I've shared my experience.

Nowhere, anywhere, have I said it was the "right way" 🙄 It is just an honest account of an experience many women have, so I felt like sharing it.

Maybe this is just an Internet post that doesn't help you, or resonate with you, and that's fine.

I am really, really sorry you have gone through this.

My post wasn't at all mean tot be any sort of guide (I think I handled it spectacularly badly actually) but more a story of what it's like years onwards.

I mentioned in my op:

I waited for a very long time for it to feel like "the end", like it was really over, but the truth is that I think that pain does stay with you forever. It changed me a lot as a person, which is sad. I wish there was something better I could say. I am always inspired by people who shake these things off, but for me it was a life-changing thing to experience.

I remember every part of it from the early days of disbelief to the rage part to the depressed bit to the part where I wondered if (Emma Thompson style) whether if I stayed that everything would always be just a little bit worse.

It's such a crap thing to go through because I think it violates the core of safety - if the person who is meant to love me the most does this, then what does that mean? It really messes with you on such a deep level.

I remember my sister was cheated on about a year before me. She found out, left her husband the same day, had a really quick and amicable divorce where both wanted the marriage to be over and she was married to someone else about 8 months later.

For her that was the right choice - she definitely went through little to no pain and just replaced one spouse with another at lightening speed. We were very different people though and they were very different relationships.

People have taken the idea that I say this was the hard road as some sort of superiority complex on my part, but really what I was trying to say is that in my view staying is generally the wrong choice. For all sorts of reasons, I probably can't explain well enough here.

We did make it through, but it was very hard and painful and again - I am pretty sure I handled it spectacularly badly - and judged myself all the way through for doing everything spectacularly badly which compounded how shit I felt.

There really isn't an easy way to handle it - if you go, unless you're like my sister and can just cut it off and move straight on, then there's going to be agony anyway.

I was always expecting there would be some lightbulb moment where you feel "wow I am over it and it's all fine", but for me it was more like waking up and realising that the relationship changed into something different, stronger, more loving over time in a way where the past didn't seem as important as it once did.

In the end everything wasn't actually a little bit worse. But it took me a very long time to get there and it wouldn't have worked without there being the right sort of commitment from both people over time.

I hope you are stronger than I was and handle it better than I did, I regret a lot (for my own sake) that I wasn't able to do that at the time. I caused myself a lot of additional pain by not being strong enough at the right times.

It really does. I am so sorry this happened to you but I hope you know it is a flaw in people who cheat that causes this behavior. I really hope that you recover what was broken, and that one day soon you meet someone with the character, integrity and capacity for the genuine love that you deserve 💐

Your post is helpful to me, so thank you. I don't agree that having kids and being married makes the trauma that follows cheating worse (or lighter for being long-distance), that's a weird kind of one-upmanship. Trauma is relative, and when someone breaks your heart, it's horrendous, no matter what your situation is.

I am married, with two little ones. I'm two years post finding out and though things have calmed down and he's doing the work, I really don't know what the future holds and I have very little faith that it will end well, but I'm still here. I stayed partly for my kids and the stability (for them and for me) while they're young, but also because - and one of the hardest things to cope with - what broke in me is the feeling I can ever really trust anyone again, so in a way it felt pointless to leave anyway.

I am an optimist though (honestly) and not interested in living a life of abject sadness and negativity so alongside waiting and watching how the marriage goes, I'm building up my own strength and independence so if it does happen again, I'm ok.

I really hope I can get to the point you have, that sounds nice - however unreachable from the point I'm currently at. It's comforting to know some can. Thanks again :)

I'll ignore the sarcasm and hostility and give you an honest answer.

People here told me to do the following:

1. Expect trickle truth
2. Set very firm boundaries and stick to them no matter what
3. Get myself some counselling
4. Take care of my own health and wellbeing as a priority

Those things are very good advice, but mostly people provided very loving support and shared their own experiences in a way which made me feel less alone.

Op - you address the original point to those thinking of cheating as well as those cheated on.

If I were to decide to cheat - by reference to my own personal and individual circumstances- your story wouldn’t move me one bit.

Here’s why - I’d barely even consider it cheating in your circumstances because of the individual facts.

On my specific facts if I had sex (I’m specifically saying sex rather than just using “cheating” which can it seems cover a multitude of activities from interacting with Only Fans accounts, drunken kisses in pubs, sharing intimate details about non sexual matters with someone of the opposite sex that isn’t your spouse, kissing, sexting etc) with someone who is not my spouse let me tell you - honestly- I’d fucking applaud myself.

As you are perfectly aware lots of relationships are not good. Some are horrendous. If my husband had sex with someone else I’d be relieved. I know it would mean he disrespected me in that particular way, but he hates me anyway. So he may as well do it. I’d actually partly admire him for getting over his cowardice to be hateful in person and behind closed doors and take it outside.

if I had sex with someone else I’d think I was finally recovering and gaining self-respect.

The dictum of one must always be single before engaging in sexual activity is an ideal. And not remotely representative of how a lot of life carries on.

And, again, probably most me, but “cheating” or being cheated on isn’t “the worst”. Burying my baby was a lot worse. Having a severely disabled child (despite how amazing she is and how much I love her) is a lot worse. Years of very little sleep and aging starting to impede what I can carry on doing for her is more painful than some adult choosing to be a prick to me.

What I find astounding is that conversation about “cheating” shows that almost everyone seems to expect to be “cherished” just because they exist … and then they decided to marry someone else and think just because the repeated institutionally dictated words (the oft cited “vows” that were broken that seems to be so much worse than years of financial or emotional or even physical abuse) were said at a time when they were meant that is IT.

Unlike anything else in life, realising the person you married was actually a cunt isn’t even allowed to be a reason to shock.. cause “pain” to them.

So I’m perplexed by your post. I read it as your declaration that you helped fix a broken man. That is one thing I would never do. Maybe you deserve your moment in the sun because I’d have gone out and had sec with someone I wanted to instead of torturing myself for someone who evidently gave not too many fucks for me.

Thank you so much for this. You've actually articulated so well how I felt for a very, very long time. Two years out was for me still very raw. I felt terrible, and I was so affected in so many ways by it. I remember reading online it started to feel better after two years, but for me I just got to that time and wondered why I didn't feel better.

I was nowhere near ready to make a permanent decision two years out. As I mentioned, I left more than once. Sometimes for months. It wasn't because I didn't love him anymore, it was more that I just didn't feel better and didn't understand how I ever would or how it would be fixed if I stayed. I just cognitively couldn't see how it would ever be right again after doing that.

I think that building your own strength and independence alongside waiting and watching is exactly the right thing to do if you're not sure either way with things. It takes so much out of you - the anxiety, the sleepless nights, the depressed feelings, and I know from my own experience that if I had left - I probably would have done it after a period of recovery as I was just too much of a mess to make life decisions. I can't begin to imagine the added pressure of two little ones and all that entails.

What you said about not being able to trust anyone resonates so deeply. That was one of the hardest parts for me too, that feeling that something fundamental had shifted in how you see the world and people in it. I mentioned in my op that it changed me, and this was definitely one of the ways (also an optimist), and you have to grieve that. What I came to, in a way, is seeing across this and actually other betrayals of other sorts in my life is that the facts are these:

Sometimes people betray you, sometimes it is being who promised never to, or who should have loved you and for whatever reason they didn't. That is a really sad part of life that some people have to experience. But then later comes a process where you realise that sometimes people don't betray you, and sometimes when they do they spend a really, really, really long time helping you put the broken bits back together. It's a less rose-tinted outlook, but it's valuable in it's own way.

I think intimate betrayal is so traumatic because it shakes that core of safety in the world. It depends a lot on the circumstances, but I have exes where if they cheated I might not have been surprised or even terribly upset, but if it's someone you genuinely trusted then it shakes something really important. Like you say - stay or go, nothing fixes that, at least not quickly. It's a personal journey that you make with or without the other person.

It does get better, I promise, but it takes a long time and it doesn't go back to what it was before, it becomes something different. That sounds really shit off the bat, like it's something worse, and I am sure in many cases it probably is worse. For me I can say with honesty that it became something bigger, deeper, more loving because of those experiences I wish we'd never had.

One big thing I would say though is this.

I had an abusive other half when my child was small, I left when he was a baby. Then had a few really disappointing relationships including someone who broke off an engagement and I reached my late 30s feeling like I had to find my true love. Sounds awful, but I think I felt like my life would be okay when I found that, and that it would be some perfect, lovely story that made all the other sad stories okay.

When I look back on it now, that time, alone with my baby as he grew up was everything. I didn't need anything else, or anyone else, that was the zenith and we were a perfect family just as we were. I still feel that now, when it's just me and him watching a movie or going to a museum. It was and is the greatest and purest love of my life. I hope you can get that joy from your little ones, as I remember when I was passing through it I always felt like I had to have my finances or my love life sorted to be okay and I wish I had known I was already okay.

As for my husband, I know now, that I don't need him and never did. But that the idea that I did caused me a massive amount of pain. What I have instead now is someone who I know genuinely loves me, and who I love being with, who makes me laugh, who makes my life a lot better every day and that is fantastic, but it was never the whole point of my life.

Be patient with yourself. This is a really shit hand to be dealt, but whether with or without him you will be sitting there one day and realise you are just fine now. From where you're standing it probably looks impossibly far away. It isn't x

I'm so very sorry that you lost a baby, and are carrying the daily reality of caring for a severely disabled child while in what sounds like a very unhappy marriage.

I think being betrayed by someone you love and trust is very different to being betrayed by someone you feel neither towards. I have experienced both, and it's a very different thing.

The idea that expecting to be cherished by the person you've chosen to build a life with isn't naive or presumptuous. I think it's one of the most reasonable things a person can want, and the fact that so many people end up in relationships where that isn't the reality is genuinely sad rather than evidence that the expectation was wrong.

I don't have a moment in the sun. My post is a reflection of a difficult experience that is all. I would far rather have spent the years doing something else, but it is what it is.