When you want to leave but are stuck.

[Thistledew]

What do you do when you feel your marriage has died a death, but you currently have no way of leaving that would not cause such spectacular difficulties that you can't contemplate it?

H and I have been together for nearly 18 years, married for 13. We have two DC: DS9 and DD5.

In hindsight, our marriage has been dying a death since DS was born, but things really shifted for me a couple of years ago. We have tried couple's counselling, which for me has resulted in much better clarity about myself, H and the relationship, but has not resulted in us coming closer together.

I really don't see DH in the same way as I did when we married. The biggest issue is that he has anger issues - nothing violent or loud, but these awful frosty silences whenever I or the children do something that he is unhappy with. There have been some other things that he has done which really go against my own values.

But I can't currently work out a way of changing things so that I can leave. My work requires me to travel a couple of times a week - usually very early starts and back by dinner time. I won't split custody 50/50 with DH as I am not prepared to leave the DC to cope with his angry moods by themselves. Changing my work is difficult - I'm trying to build up more work locally but this is particularly difficult to do. I'm putting things in place but at the moment it is only a hope that things might be better in a year or two. Moving much closer to London would help, but I currently live near my mother who is in declining health and mobility and I am an only child. I am also very reluctant to move DS9 from his school before he leaves for high school - he has had a very difficult time at another school previously due to his ADHD and dyslexia and is now flourishing.

We also made some poor financial decisions around the house that we are in- we ran out of money completing a renovation and extension project (H's mismanagement of the funds for this is one of the reasons that I have lost respect for him). Due to where we are located it is likely to be very difficult to sell a partly- finished property and there is a real risk that we would not get sufficient equity out of it in its current state to enable us both to buy elsewhere. I know that many people rent when they separate, but I contributed a significant amount of equity to the purchase of our house from my previous homes and it would be a kick in the teeth to lose that.

I am taking steps to make everything else in my life as good as it can be, and am for the first time in years feeling happy that I don't need my marriage to provide company, friendship etc.

But where do I go from here? If you have stuck out a bad situation for a couple of years, how have you dealt with it emotionally?

Would you be able to stay in the house, if you separate / file for divorce? And he move out?
Would you be in a position to cover the bills.

Or could you co exist in the house with separate bedrooms etc.

It sounds very complicated with the house. I might be inclined to tolerate his behaviour short term while the house is completed, and really push for it to be sorted out with a loan or whatever it takes. It would be a much cleaner break if you could sell and find somewhere else with your share. It would save years of angst over the house situation.

I’m sorry you’re in this situation. I opened the thread for advice as I’m in a similar boat. But I’ve had to wait because he threatens to push for 50/50 with the kids, and he gets so angry and shouty plus never did anything with the kids, I just couldn’t risk them being stuck with him half the time. My youngest is finally old enough for his opinion to be counted, and the eldest 2 are now both 18+. I would be very wary of simply stating that you won’t let the kids be with him as the impression I’ve been given of family court these days is that they will try to get an even split unless you can prove there has been abuse of the children. If he’s the sort that would just walk away happy to never be a parent again you wouldn’t need to worry - but if he’d push for 50/50 whether that’s because he’s genuinely good dad that wants to be with his kids, to get out of paying any child maintenance or to “punish” you for daring to leave him you need to be prepared for the possibility he might get that.

I hope we both get our escapes though!

Really feeling for you, OP.

I absolutely resonate 100% with your dilemma and understand why you're biding your time.

Is there any chance of a multi-generational living arrangement with your mum if she's not too far away? Could you and DC move in with her while your H stews in the marital home while it's on the market, chipping away at completing the renovations?

Turn it around. What would you do if H said he wanted a divorce, and that the house need be sold (auction if necessary) and split if you couldn't buy him out? You'd have no choice in the matter so what would you do?

Is there any chance he'd be OK with splitting? At least to the point where he covers childcare when you need to leave early?

I do think it's easiest to bide your time but it's not a decision you are 100 % in control of.

You either have to accept the financial hit of selling the house and either downsizing or moving to a rental, or you just continue living together but apart, IYSWIM.

1. Is there space in the house for you to sleep in separate bedrooms?
2. How easy is he to grey rock / completely ignore? Is his anger / moodiness manageable or is it oppressive and really affecting you & the children day-to-day?

I have relatives who child rear together in the same house but have very little to do with one another otherwise. They don’t seem particularly unhappy, so I do believe it can be an option. There are no serious anger issues or emotional abuse, however.

Chat to your local women's aid. Frostiness and silence are often used as tools of control.
If you are staying, the freedom programme or own my life course will give you the tools to manage.

Hello. I got out of a situation as logistically difficult as this. It was hard work but I'm divorced and happy. I won't go into the specifics, but suffice to say you can do it. What exactly is wrong with the house? Is it a question of the kitchen being outdated, or literal half-built extension on the back?

I hope you find a solution, I think there are a lot of women out there who are in a similar position.
I wonder if we just tolerate less as we get older.

Thank you for all the replies.

I do understand that it is not literally impossible for me to leave- there are potential solutions such as asking my mum if she would sell her house and move in with me and the kids somewhere new. Or renting somewhere.

But when it comes to ‘choosing my hard’ it seems that the options to leave would bring more stress and difficulty than staying does right now.

The biggest issue is that H would likely want 50/50 custody and I am not prepared to leave the DC to deal with his moods by themselves. It’s bad enough that it does affect them but not so bad that a court would refuse him residence. At the moment H does at least take himself off somewhere if he is getting triggered by the DC, and leaves me to deal with whatever issue has arisen with them rather than getting angry at them, but this would not be possible if he were parenting solo.

Also, the nature of my work means that I often have early starts and am not back until dinner time. I can’t at present afford a nanny.

The house needs a dormer window put in to what was the master bedroom but is now windowless due to the extension we put on the back. The old part also needs re-roofing as if you take the temporary patch off DD’s ceiling you can actually see daylight. Around here it seems that people either want a complete do-er upper that they can buy cheaply or something that needs no work. There is a property opposite in the same price range that is that is similarly half finished and has been on the market for over a year.

OP you sound like a resourceful person and if you take your husband’s temperament out of the equation you would be able to make some plans, even with these ingredients. In reality most men like this do not end up wanting 50/50. Have you asked him?

It’s not just about whether he would want 50/50 residence, but about my work. There is simply no way that I could continue living near to where I do now (very rurally) and earn anything near a reasonable income. If I moved back to London it would be still be difficult to manage by myself, but probably not impossible.

But DC9 already has challenging behaviour because of his ADHD and such a radical change to move away from his school, friends, activities and only see his father every fortnight would have such a nuclear fallout for his emotional state that I don’t think I can justify it right now.

That does sound quite difficult. In that case I’d perhaps do as you are starting to: separated together, sharing the space.

Well you answered your question by yourself - you can’t really leave because of your job and all other logistics.

The best solution imho is to change the mindset from wife/husband to being a friendly neighbour sharing the house and parenting together. No need to announce separation or move rooms. Friendly neighbours relations would help to relieve the tension from both sides - you will lower the expectations from him, he might also want to improve his attitude.

I have come to accept that separation is just not a viable option right now, so am keen to hear any suggestions about how to virtually separate whilst living under one roof.

How do you set boundaries to make that work?

I feel that I am already in a place where I have zero expectations emotionally from the relationship, but it is hard to disengage when he does something that is harmful for our relationship, even if that relationship only really exists on paper now.

He is on anti-depressants and has recently acknowledged that maybe he has a bunch of issues that are driving his anger issues and has just started therapy.

But when I said that the one thing I need for there to be any hope of our relationship continuing in the long term was for him to stop with the anger and silences, he said he could not promise that. That may well be an honest reflection but it told me everything I needed to know about our future.

Morning OP @Thistledew , I am a member of the 'shouty husband's' club too , in fact I may well be president ....

I am 46 now and DS 16th birthday is nigh (few weeks away) , I have waited for 10 years ......
Exact same reasons - not wanting to go 50/50 and leave DS unsupervised with Mr Shouty Rage

Setting boundaries has been close to impossible as H is a narc .....
What has helped I suppose is having own hobbies when and where possible, female friends/support network, and well a lot of Netflix etc while biding my time

I don't have any clever answers for you - but stand here with you in solidarity
I think the energy levels to leave are much more higher when younger in mid 30s then ten years and 15 years on (that could just be my peri meno talking right now though), so if you can leave and make it work, then you should

Perhaps a mind set change from trying to have the kids all the time to protect them from him to being giving them a wonderful environment at least 50 pc of the time with no walking on eggshells around a shouty scary grown up. They also get to see their mother happy , and they get to see the consequences for their dad of being disrespectful with their mum .....lets not underestimate all this....my son has definitely been impacted by the arguments and the shouty environment and in retrospective I would have tried harder to leave when he was 7 or 8 .....knowing what I know now ....however, very easy to say now and hard to do in reality ...I still have not 'left'........

Well at least you have options with your DM and her selling her house.

A good family/divorce solicitor should be able to advise on how much contact eg 50/50 he has. If it’s emotionally abusive behaviour towards the DC then he may get less contact. I personally couldn’t live like this.

Well this sounds like an unfinished conversation. He says he can't promise a complete elimination of the anger just now but he is starting therapy and starting to implement his own Time Outs. This sounds like it is moving in a positive direction even if it slower than you had hoped.

If he says he can't promise it ask him what he thinks he COULD manage to do. He seems to have residual motivation to work on himself. I can't believe this is pleasant for him either.

Since you are set in staying living together for now and you don't control him, look on your "side of the street". Nobody is perfect and even if you don't do the same things as him maybe there are some adjustments you can make. Have you tried thanking him for small things like managing to control his temper and walk away. Noticing things you appreciate about him. This will help keep the atmosphere more positive and sets a good example to the kids.

Also, work on Mirroring him in conversations. Effective communication has the structure Send - Mirror - Check - Pull. People think they are communicating well but very few are using a good technique to hear the other person.

Look into Imago Relationship Therapy for more about this. Or listen to this talk;

MIRRORING

Also look up John Gottman "Making Marriage Work" on YouTube. 45 minute talk with a lot of valuable information.

For more info on divorce you can also listen to The Divorce Podcast (look it up on Spotify)

Another good show to watch is Couples Therapy with Orna Gurnalik on YouTube.

I dont have much helpful to add, except I would not want to take DS9 out of his current school.

Thanks. That is helpful. I really am trying to see his recent uptake of therapy as something positive and hopeful for the future, but I struggle to do so.

It was 2 ½ years ago that I first said to H that his anger issues were harming his relationship with both me and with the children. He did nothing to address that. I arranged for him to start seeing this therapist in the summer in the context of his deteriorating relationship with DS. H had four sessions with the therapist but failed to mention his anger issues at all.

It was five years ago that we began to notice that DS has additional needs and we agreed that we would have to be on top of our parenting game to cope with them. I have done the courses, read the books, watched the videos etc. H has done none of that, apart from after 4 years doing one very basic course about neurodivergent children.

I don’t hold my breath for him putting any meaningful effort into making changes.

How old was he when you met him OP? What’s his temperament like when he’s not angry? Was his own childhood tricky? Trying to think of reasons the whole thing might be pressing his buttons in this way. Could he be neurodivergent like your son?

My DH has damaged my kids, amd also his ( blended family).

Damage done is damage done. You can only try to avoid more.

My kids hate him. I wanted a divorce but now my job is at-risk. I have no choice but to sit it out for the time being.

I sleep in a separate room. Initially because I was poorly, but I haven't moved back. Is this an option for you?

I still run the house the same, do the jobs, shopping, dinner etc. mine is an angry man too, but not abusive as such, just a complete lack of empathy.

I'm stuck just now and it's shit

I thought I would never be able to leave exh despite his abuse both mentally, physically & sexual (he raped me a fortnight before I left) One night I reached the end of my tether, we ended up having a blazing row & I told him I didn't care if he burnt the house down with us all in it, he went & lit all the rings on our gas hob & started throwing tea towels & kitchen roll on the flames. Ds who was 6 had been having lessons at school about what to do in an emergency & rang 999, as both exh & I calmed down I got to the phone & made an excuse to the person who answered, 10 minutes later the police turned up to do a welfare check, I made the decision ds & I were leaving, the police stayed while we grabbed enough stuff to manage & even helped ds out with his hamster & cage, we stayed the night in a travelodge. Within a week I was in the family courts getting a non molestation order, we spent 6 months either staying with my parents or sofa surfing before getting a council house, I reported exh for raping me, went through all the video interview & investigation but the CPS wouldn't take the case to trial.