Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I have had an epiphany - mind blown!

57 replies

BonkersConkersandPlonkers · 21/01/2026 09:32

I'm 50. I've spent much of my adult life single although I have been in a relationship for around 4 years now.

Like many, I was aware of incel, red pill, manosphere, MGTOW and 'dating coaches'... but had never actually encountered it personally, as in witnessed it or experienced any of the more extreme attitudes from men or seen any of the material myself.

Obviously, I'm well versed in 'useless men', weaponised incompetence, man babies (like I say, I spent most off my adult life single) but I'd never witnessed first hand the messages being delivered to men.

A few weeks ago, during a period.of illness, I started watching fb reels whilst ill in bed and now my mind is actually blown!

In late 2019, I started dating someone. It was great at the start - I'd go round after work and he'd run me a bath with candles, cook for me, we'd dance in the living room to Frank Sinatra. I was on cloud 9.

Lockdown hit, we 'bubbled' and then the real him started to emerge...

I'm not going to go into detail because this isn't that sort of post.

I ended it because there were inconsistencies and it wasn't the sort of relationship I wanted to be in. I was gutted really because we were perfect for each other on paper and I'd fancied him for a few years if truth be known. But he clearly didn't actually like me very much at all. It made no sense. He'd pay for expensive tickets to the ballet, he'd cook, he'd be charming in public, put his jacket around my shoulders if it was cold but then he was totally different behind closed doors.

He seemed utterly disinterested in me. I couldn't fathom why he would go out with someone and 'court' someone he didn't appear to even like!

Anyway, we dated for longer than we would have given the strange days of lockdown and I regarded him almost as a curiosity. I turned it into a game with myself - predicting what he'd do and say next or how he'd respond to me etc. I found it fascinating and baffling. It didn't affect how I saw myself. It was almost amusing seeing what he'd come out with next.

Anyway, lockdown ended, I ended the relationship and a few months later met my now partner. When it ended, he didn't seem bothered and then told me that I hadn't been 'grateful enough' for all the things he'd done for me. I reflected on that - I had. I'd thanked him, I'd treated him as often as he'd treated me. What he meant was I hadn't been subservient, adoring, deferent.

He's the only man I've personally been involved with who was this extreme.

So anyway, I've seen some of this stuff because I've been getting a lot of 'response' type videos on reels where other men show the sort of videos these men are watching and then rip them apart.

Everything about that entire relationship now makes complete sense! He did mention once, when we'd been talking about our recent and historical relationship experiences, that he'd watched some online dating coach advice but I had no idea what that actually meant! I mean some of the advice is literally, "Don't ever be nice to/compliment/spend time with/admit you like a woman you're in a relationship with. That makes you vulnerable and vulnerability makes you weak and women don't want a weak man. They want a man they can depend on who they can trust to he strong and not falter under pressure..." blah blah blah.

I mean, I can follow their 'logic' but it's absolutely bonkers!

I suppose I just really wondered how many other women were actually aware of the content these men are consuming? How many women have seen it for themselves?

OP posts:
ImSweetEnough · 21/01/2026 09:41

I wouldn't hang around 'out of curiosity' in a relationship with someone I felt wasn't nice to me in private.

And I wouldn't be wasting time, years later, speculating on where he had learned his behaviour. It may not have been via any online 'manosphere' stuff. He's probably always been the same. He wasn't right for you, you're out of it and good for you.

I think most people are aware of the manosphere content out there online (men and women). The men I know are not consuming it, they reject it categorically.

Purlant · 21/01/2026 09:42

To be honest you both sound a bit odd. Him for giving confused signals and you for treating him as a sort of experiment and making it into a game - why not just break up rather than all the game playing?

I don’t think you should take anything meaningful from Facebook reels, I could easily come to the assumption that men are terrible at drawing maps from the crap that come up on my feeds.

OneShyQuail · 21/01/2026 09:54

It definitely exists (sadly see it every day at work - teacher, mostly 14/15/16 year old males) but I think its odd your still ruminating on this now, and cannot comprehend how anyone stays in any relationship where their partner is inconsistent or unkind

Catza · 21/01/2026 10:05

Oh, I am very versed in the content they consume because towards the end of my last relationship, my ex was forwarding me the IG videos he watched. Nothing about dating advice there but a lot of thoughts about the value of women. I hope it all works out for him, what else can I say...

StrippeyFrog · 21/01/2026 10:12

I think most younger people are aware of the content. IMO that sort of attitude has been around long before the content became popular it’s just now they have a platform to reach others. I think some men just genuinely hate woman/their partners and get into relationships purely for the status/domestic labour/finances/sex.

Anonanonanonagain · 21/01/2026 10:45

So essentially he is the treat em mean to keep em keen type and you were so unkeen you stayed with him just to study him?

I am not sure which of you is worse.

BonkersConkersandPlonkers · 21/01/2026 11:36

It was lovkdown, we both lived alone. And, companywise/conversationally we got on well. It was just the 'relate' part of the 'relatkonship' he couldn't do.

It was that or no one and so I opted for that.🤷🏻‍♀️

And other not that I think fb reels are the best source for anything but they are showing actual videos that se real life men are engaging with.

I'm not still ruminating on it now. I'm a human and I have a brain and it made a connection between something I was seeing now and a situation that remined me of something that happened a few years ago. That's pretty normal, tbh.

It was the content of the videos I was interested in discussing really as I hadn't seen it before. The wider context was just that really. Context.

OP posts:
BonkersConkersandPlonkers · 21/01/2026 11:38

StrippeyFrog · 21/01/2026 10:12

I think most younger people are aware of the content. IMO that sort of attitude has been around long before the content became popular it’s just now they have a platform to reach others. I think some men just genuinely hate woman/their partners and get into relationships purely for the status/domestic labour/finances/sex.

I think you're probably right.

It just seems that many of them haven't even considered that women can be friends or are even human. I just hadn't seen it so starkly before. Knowing it is one thing, seeing what it actually looks like is something else.

OP posts:
DoubleEspressoForMe · 21/01/2026 13:19

Yes. This content is prolific. I am a ruminating years after kind of person as well. My marriage ended 6 years ago and I do struggle to understand what happened and why. These videos do go some way to helping understand.... And certainly keep me well away from dating currently.

ladycarlotta · 21/01/2026 13:43

I don't think it's unreasonable for the videos to have made you think of him again, if nobody ever thought about their bizarre relationships once they'd ended we'd be missing about 28% of Mumsnet, aka all the "what's the weirdest thing anyone's every done one a date" or "when did you realise you had to leave" or "is this a red flag?" posts.

And it is also completely normal to not understand what was going on in a relationship (friend, family, partner, colleague) until something fills in the blanks way down the line.

I haven't watched these videos myself but I've read about them so am aware of generalities but not specific content. Maybe watching them would shed light on some interactions from my life too, who knows?

FlatWhiteExtraHot · 21/01/2026 14:03

BonkersConkersandPlonkers · 21/01/2026 11:36

It was lovkdown, we both lived alone. And, companywise/conversationally we got on well. It was just the 'relate' part of the 'relatkonship' he couldn't do.

It was that or no one and so I opted for that.🤷🏻‍♀️

And other not that I think fb reels are the best source for anything but they are showing actual videos that se real life men are engaging with.

I'm not still ruminating on it now. I'm a human and I have a brain and it made a connection between something I was seeing now and a situation that remined me of something that happened a few years ago. That's pretty normal, tbh.

It was the content of the videos I was interested in discussing really as I hadn't seen it before. The wider context was just that really. Context.

It was the content of the videos I was interested in discussing really as I hadn't seen it before.

If you want to discuss the content of misogynistic incel videos, I’m sure there are lots of more suitable arenas to do so. 🙄

Bobbinog · 21/01/2026 15:01

Treat 'em mean, keep 'em keen has been around forever. About 30 years ago I remember a male friend rebranding the concept as Treat 'em mean, go lean (ie get no dates/sex) because of how stupid an idea it was 😂

Periandtired · 21/01/2026 15:18

BonkersConkersandPlonkers · 21/01/2026 11:36

It was lovkdown, we both lived alone. And, companywise/conversationally we got on well. It was just the 'relate' part of the 'relatkonship' he couldn't do.

It was that or no one and so I opted for that.🤷🏻‍♀️

And other not that I think fb reels are the best source for anything but they are showing actual videos that se real life men are engaging with.

I'm not still ruminating on it now. I'm a human and I have a brain and it made a connection between something I was seeing now and a situation that remined me of something that happened a few years ago. That's pretty normal, tbh.

It was the content of the videos I was interested in discussing really as I hadn't seen it before. The wider context was just that really. Context.

I'm not sure why you're getting such shitty responses tbh. That incel stuff is so specific and quite different to "classic" misogyny if you ask me as I think they groom mean into behaving like that who maybe wouldn't have in the past. I have 2 teenage daughters and ine wa sin a mixed school and harassed by boys who've been fed this shit online for years. It's really sad. I opted for a girls school for my second as a result.
I don't think anyone is doing enough to fight it and it normalises general shyness from men who haven't been contaminated too. Cos it allows them to be crap and feel good about themselves.

Crushed23 · 21/01/2026 16:04

If I’ve got my maths right, you met the incel in your early 40s? I can’t imagine wasting my prime years on an utter douche, lockdown or no lockdown.

Anyway, with respect to incels, their biggest mistake is thinking women don’t know the tricks when the ‘advice’ is publicly available on every SM platform. 😂 When a guy negs me now, I like to agree with him and watch him squirm as his ‘tactic’ isn’t working. In fact, I recommend it as a response to any kind of manipulation. Just say “yeah, you’re right”. It’s the new grey rock. 😎

HollieDay07 · 21/01/2026 16:11

BonkersConkersandPlonkers · 21/01/2026 11:36

It was lovkdown, we both lived alone. And, companywise/conversationally we got on well. It was just the 'relate' part of the 'relatkonship' he couldn't do.

It was that or no one and so I opted for that.🤷🏻‍♀️

And other not that I think fb reels are the best source for anything but they are showing actual videos that se real life men are engaging with.

I'm not still ruminating on it now. I'm a human and I have a brain and it made a connection between something I was seeing now and a situation that remined me of something that happened a few years ago. That's pretty normal, tbh.

It was the content of the videos I was interested in discussing really as I hadn't seen it before. The wider context was just that really. Context.

I get it completely. I was with a man from the age of 17 who on paper was great but behind closed doors was incredibly cruel and when I actually realised what was happening (thank you frontal lobe!) I left and I’m now in a truly good relationship however some days I think to myself ‘wtf was that?!?!’
it doesn’t mean I miss him or think fondly of him, the exact opposite tbh but we’re human and I wanted to know how or why he treated me with such disdain. He also would watch the mgtow, red pill/blue pill brigade.
I'm glad you got rid of him and you’re happy now!

mummydoorgirl · 21/01/2026 16:23

FlatWhiteExtraHot · 21/01/2026 14:03

It was the content of the videos I was interested in discussing really as I hadn't seen it before.

If you want to discuss the content of misogynistic incel videos, I’m sure there are lots of more suitable arenas to do so. 🙄

Um where would be a more appropriate forum to discuss the many faces of misogyny ?

Villanellesproudmum · 21/01/2026 16:25

Blimey I’ve never heard this of manosphere or MGTOW what is the latter?

DeftGoldHedgehog · 21/01/2026 16:46

mummydoorgirl · 21/01/2026 16:23

Um where would be a more appropriate forum to discuss the many faces of misogyny ?

Quite!

SidekickSylvia · 21/01/2026 17:05

Villanellesproudmum · 21/01/2026 16:25

Blimey I’ve never heard this of manosphere or MGTOW what is the latter?

I think it's Men Go Their Own Way, they're men who think life would be better if there were no women in their world. But they also think women should be available to them if/when required, despite being the enemy. Low IQ stuff.

blacksax · 21/01/2026 19:24

SidekickSylvia · 21/01/2026 17:05

I think it's Men Go Their Own Way, they're men who think life would be better if there were no women in their world. But they also think women should be available to them if/when required, despite being the enemy. Low IQ stuff.

Really? This is the first I've heard of it. Every day's a school day on MN.

What a bunch of wankers, wanting to do everything their own way... except ooh, there's nobody to do all the cooking and cleaning, and they could do with a shag. If only they could find someone to do those things, life would be perfect.

Pathetic, really.

GasperyJacquesRoberts · 21/01/2026 19:51

Villanellesproudmum · 21/01/2026 16:25

Blimey I’ve never heard this of manosphere or MGTOW what is the latter?

MGTOW or "Men Going Their Own Way" is ostensibly about single men who have decided that they want to make decisions about their lives that are to their personal benefit and development regardless of whether or not that would make them attractive to women.

On its face it's similar to the many women on Mumsnet etc who say that, following one or more shitty relationships, that they're now happy and confident being single and so taking that opportunity to prioritise their own life goals. Eg someone who says they're content to be single and making their own choices about how they want to spend their time, what they want to achieve, and where they want to go. For such people if they happen to find someone of the opposite/appropriate sex along the way who reflects those goals and can fit in then great, if not then they'll continue being happily single.

In reality, a significant chunk of the MGTOW types end up spending their days complaining about women as a class, conflating the actions and choices of a small proportion of women as representative of women as a whole, and generally being really bitter about being dumped, cheated on and/or not treated the way they think they should have been in previous relationships. It's on the way to full-on inceldom albeit the true incels realise (but nevertheless hate) the fact that it's their own failings that cause women to not want to be with them. The toxic MGTOW types think that they're above that. The actual men who are genuinely content being single see both the incels and the toxic MGTOW types as simply different flavours of losers.

Gwenhwyfar · 21/01/2026 20:02

It doesn't seem likely to me that he learnt it all from these videos. It's very hard to hide your real personality. I'd be more inclined to believe that his attitude stems from his childhood.

ExperiencedTeacher · 21/01/2026 20:09

This is the kind of thing our teenage boys are exposed to continually. It’s terrifying and horrific.

tallwivglasses · 21/01/2026 20:11

Have you come across Will Hitchens OP? His comments on "trust me bro university" crack me up. It's a shame most of his audience are women!

BonkersConkersandPlonkers · 21/01/2026 21:35

tallwivglasses · 21/01/2026 20:11

Have you come across Will Hitchens OP? His comments on "trust me bro university" crack me up. It's a shame most of his audience are women!

I have! He's good. And SpeechProf.

OP posts: