Grandparents with no boundaries

[SarahAndQuack]

Context: I have a difficult relationship with my parents; they can be pretty awful and over the years I have reduced contact down quite a bit. I must admit that my mum was great when my daughter was a baby/toddler. At the moment I don't want to go no-contact, but I am trying to get my mind around boundaries.

About a year/18 months ago, when my DD was 7, my parents came up for a visit and mentioned they'd like to find some alphabet letters they'd brought up for DD when she was much younger. I did have a dim memory these were a loan not a permanent gift, but honestly, I had lost track of them. I apologised and said I couldn't find them, and thought the matter was closed. While I was out, they went through DD's room, pulling things out of drawers and out from under her bed. I came home and DD was quite upset; they'd done this in front of her but without discussing it with her, and they'd left her room in a state.

At the time I was fairly shocked and pointed out it was her room; that it was her private space, and that she was upset. There was a vague apology but I got the sense they were really more bothered about the letters.

Since then, and for other reasons, I've told them that they need to back off with DD and respect her boundaries. I've also acknowledged to DD that they are in the wrong when they do things like this, because I want her to understand that she is entitled to her own boundaries.

I didn't realise DD was still upset about it, but this weekend one of our cats knocked over some things in her room and she commented, quite matter-of-factly, that the cat had made 'almost as much mess as that time granny and grandad wrecked my room'. It's obviously still on her mind.

I really just want some perspective. I hadn't thought to revisit the issue, and I'm not the least bit hopeful of getting a helpful response from them if I do, but I also don't want to let DD down. I don't know, developmentally/emotionally, what she needs to hear at this stage, if that makes sense.

Exactly, she's a seven year old child. She gets almost no control over her life. That's right and a good thing, because she's seven. But that's what makes it even more important to respect the things she does have control over, like her bedroom. Having two adults who you're supposed to be able to love and trust ransacking your bedroom over a trivial set of toy letters is a nasty thing for a seven year old and it was totally unnecessary on the part of the grandparents.

What other instances are you thinking about op?

It’s not enough to tell her that her gps are in the wrong, but continually put her in a position where they trample her boundaries.

The bedroom example is probably dramatic enough that she can process it and understand her role in that. But more subtle examples can do more damage because they’re harder to name and pick apart.

How reasonable or unreasonable it was is likely to be decided by the manner in which they did it.

Cheerfully communicating with DD whilst looking and trying to avoid making too much mess vs them in an obviously bad mood throwing stuff out of drawers. And all the grey area in the middle.

I think that's why posts like this get such varied responses - we all picture it differently.

Personally, I say the fact it upset your daughter makes it more likely to be unreasonable, but that depends on her usual responses to things.

I take the point about subtle examples, yes.

More recently, they came up for the weekend and wanted to do a certain activity (one of several). By the time they got to it, she was really exhausted and didn't want to. They kept repeatedly asking her if she wanted to do it and saying things like 'we will let you rest and ask again in half an hour ... we'll have a cup of tea and after that we'll see if you're ready' and I had to say no several times before they got the message.

We also had a situation where they said they'd take her out for a bike ride, and when they went out, my dad decided her bike wasn't set up correctly and kept trying to fiddle with it. I wasn't there, but DD says she didn't want him to do this. I'm not sure if this is more about DD or me, but afterwards I said the bike was fine (it was) and both of them were furious with me and absolutely sure they'd been in the right, even though it's a bike DD happily rides long distances on.

More low-level things that I'm worrying about are things that sound as if they might be trying to engage, but I feel uncomfortable. Eg, DD recently told them about a school project and mentioned a documentary she'd watched. Next time they spoke my dad said he'd watched the documentary now, and he started explaining DD the facts from it. I can see this could sound as if he was making conversation or whatever, but I felt uncomfortable with it, because it felt like him telling her things as if she wouldn't have understood them herself, if that makes sense?

It is subtler, that, but it feels like part of the same dynamic.

That makes sense. I wasn't there, so I don't know how they did it. I don't particularly get the sense they were angry from DD, but more that they just ignored her not wanting them to do it, and they left all her stuff all over the place. it definitely wasn't a case of 'DD, shall we look together' or anything like that.

I don't think DD is usually particularly easily upset or possessive about things, so it did strike me as unusual.

The fact they searched your child’s room for some baby toys and think that’s acceptable!!! Why didn't they search the rest of the house as most 7 year olds don’t have baby toys stored in their rooms? Would you have felt the same way you do now if they’d been into your room and searched through every cupboard and drawer and left it looking like you’d been burgled?

I wouldn’t allow them back in my house unsupervised at all!!

So displeased that if a friend could not find the item you would wait until they leave you alone and then rummage through their house leaving it a complete mess? That's what happened here.

They were making a mountain range for in effect trashing a kids bedroom looking for a stupid toy. I would have gone ballistic with them but I have no time for idiots.

I think grandparents often get a bad rap on here when they are actually trying really hard to connect with grandchildren they don't see often, but end up getting it a bit wrong.

Couching all of this in a framework of 'toxic/ no boundaries/ unsupervised contact' etc possibly makes it all sound worse that it really is?

As another poster pointed out, we weren't there for the room search, and it does sound like you could be projecting what you want to believe onto the situation?

Them planning an activity then your DD not wanting to do it could have been disappointing/ confusing for them. You see your DD all the time, that might have been a planned precious activity for them?
Checking the bike might have been an act of concern over safety? Friends of mine who are GPs say they feel much more concerned about looking after their grandchildren than they did their own children!
The documentary thing just sounds like a clumsy attempt to show interest and engage.

My inlaws did lots of annoying and irritating things with my kids, including buying them cheap and nasty things and breaking their toys and lego models, and yes, even making them cry on occasions. But I never considered it in terms of them 'being toxic' or 'overstepping boundaries ' or thought of 'going supervised contact only' - it all sounds rather melodramatic. As young adults now, both my kids love their remaining GP and deeply miss the dead ones, but remember a lot of happy memories with them. But yes, we DO laugh off some of the less happy ones e.g. 'poor grandma, do you remember when she accidently used your blankie as a cleaning rag? Oops.'

By all means, teach your daughter about boundaries. But you must also teach her about responsibilities.

You’ve made a big deal about your parents respecting your daughter’s things, but you didn’t respect theirs. Both sides are at fault here.

I just don't see how searching a child's room for a cheap bit of tat could reasonably be construed as trying to connect with said child. Especially if they didn't bother to tidy up afterwards. I do agree that sometimes grandparents get a bad rap on MN but I don't think this is the case here. They went pretty nuclear over a toy, especially considering OP had offered to replace it.

Absolutely; lots of these things could sound like them trying, which is why I second guess myself.

As I said in my OP, I hadn't thought the room search had upset DD enough for her to remember it after such a long time; that made me reconsider.

And I agree, I'm sure they wanted to do their planned activity. That wasn't what bothered me. What bothered me was that they had several planned activities, several of which they did, and then when DD was too tired to do the last one, they kept pestering her about it. To me, that feels different. I can understand if they'd said 'oh, this is a pity, we'd love to come up again soon and do it' or whatever, but it felt more as if they simply thought they could keep wearing her down until she said yes or I insisted she do it. And I don't see the point in that?

The bike thing - again, yes, absolutely wouldn't judge my dad for being concerned for her safety, of course! But it's another example where she came home feeling they had ignored her/not listened, and they were angry to be proved wrong. They didn't respond with 'oops, oh well, you understand we were worried!' which would have been totally fine. They responded by being furious that I didn't agree with them the bike needed changing - and that was nonsensical, because I know perfectly well it's set up correctly for DD and works for her.

It genuinely is tricky, because what I end up with is a catalogue of things where I feel uncomfortable, to different degrees, and I am trying to get the sense of whether this is really upsetting DD, or whether it's all water under the bridge.

Well, I don't think DD was responsible. I don't think any sane person expects a 7 year old child to keep track of something that was lent to her aged 3/4. So it's not about her responsibility, only mine.

With mine - what would you have done, in the situation? You've been lent a set of alphabet letters. Several years later you discover you can't find them. You offer another set that looks pretty similar to you; you offer to pay for the originals.

I would have looked very hard if I'd got the sense they thought it was that important, but I didn't. Like most people (I honestly think?) I did not imagine it was a big deal.

Their behaviour is mega over the top over some letters! I’ve lost so many things MIL gave me for the kids because it’s hard to keep on top of everything.

They should’ve just let it go, but I don’t think it’s a big issue that they looked through her room. I think if she was a teenager then it would be inappropriate, but not so much at 7.

Leaving the room in a mess is totally out of order though. I’ve got no back bone so wouldn’t say anything, but I think you should mention them messing up her room.

Your parents sound a bit nuts! Who lends a toy to their young grandchildren and then expects it back, years later? Do they like to get their money back on everything they buy her?! Have they forgotten how much young children trash things with no thought to resale value? Taking her room apart to find it was nasty. A child's room is their kingdom and people should respect that. I don't like people being in my bedroom uninvited and it doesn't contain every precious thing I own.

I agree with the PP actually. That sort of behaviour is indicative of a complete lack of boundaries, care and consideration. The OP’s parents clearly waited until she was out to do that so she couldn’t tell them to stop - they relied on a child’s inability to stand up for herself and left her to watch as they trashed her room. Would you be happy if I came over to your house and started searching through your bedroom drawers?

My God, how is any of this bad? The fact your father watched the documentary so he could talk about it with your daughter is lovely!

I’ve not had to deal with a room search, but I’ve had the repeated pestering of DC to do something. That needs a firm response. ‘No, that’s not happening - he’s too tired/it’s too late’ etc’. But I’ve got a lecturer’s voice, and they listened. I’ve got several friends who’ve struggled with the similar pestering or overstepping. The general wisdom seems to be that the best response is firm pushbacks, delivered with a smile.

@SarahAndQuack Sorry but you will get some posters here who will think that it's completely normal to search a dgcs room and leave it in a mess. Crazy behaviour in my book.

You know your parents and you feel they have overstepped many times in the past and this was one example of it. I would def go lc and never leave dd alone with them. They sound a bit unhinged tbh. Sorry OP.

Uugh, your language about a 7 year old is very molly coddling. "Boundaries" and "private spaces". Honestly get a grip. Old people can get really fixated on things. Okay, so it wasn't great they messed up her room, but 7 year olds don't spontaneously combust if they are upset : she will get over it, unless you make it a much bigger deal than it is. You need to teach her some resilience, not to over analyse every little thing 🙄There is no acknowledgement that you were careless with a loaned toy. What does that teach your DD?

I don't think you're overreacting at all. That must be traumatic for a child, seeing their grandparents ransack their room.

WTF?

"Traumatic" and "Ransack"?

She was a bit upset because they made a mess looking for a lost toy they had loaned.

I agree it's a bit odd, but hardly traumatic.

This poor child has no chance later in the real world if this is the 'trauma' benchmark that is being drawn for her!

If he'd watched it so he could talk about it with my daughter, that would be lovely.

But she didn't get a word in edgeways. What he wanted to do was explain it to her, as if she hadn't seen it, or as if she couldn't possibly have understood it.

If this were an isolated example, obviously, I would just think 'aw, bless, it's lovely dad wants to chat to DD'. But it's part of a picture, for me.

Well, I did acknowledge it, didn't I? As I said in my OP, I apologised. I've also explained that I found them a set of letters they could have had, and I offered to replace the specific ones I couldn't find.

What's wrong with 'boundaries' and 'private spaces'? A private space is just a ... space that is private, right?

I was so far from thinking she was still upset that it surprised me she remembered it, as I said.