Dad had stroke - struggling to forgive mum

[Cardinalita90]

My dad had a stroke this week. I found out by fluke when he accidentally called me, was crying and told me he couldn't read. Told my mum (who was with him) could be a sign of a stroke and to get help. My sibling called them 40 mins later, his speech was garbled, my mum still hadn't called for help and had made him an alcoholic drink.

Long story short, I ended up calling 999 myself and turned out it was a stroke and bleed on the brain. He's in hospital and my mum has no concerns about how she handled it, and has accused me of trying to control everything. Prompted by me asking her if the hospital have her contact details and down as next of kin (she doesn't know and hasn't bothered to ask). I admit I can have a controlling nature sometimes but it really angered me because if I hadn't taken control, my dad wouldn't be alive.

I haven't said any of this to her because she's extremely defensive and the last thing we need is to fall out. But i feel so shaken by her poor judgement, scared of what'll happen in future if he falls ill again and I'm not there, and I feel like I'm the only one dealing with reality while she faffs about sorting clean pajamas and chocolate for him and ignoring the stuff that matters. Any advice?

If you're regularly in their house I think that I would put a visual reminder by the phone - a printout of the stroke symptoms and an instruction to call 999 if she notices any of them. I would tell her that the doctor has given it to you and told you that she needs to call 999 if it happens again even, and that if it does happen she shouldn't trust his judgement about calling 999 because stroke can impair judgement.

If your mother is used to deferring to your father and potentially he’s a bit controlling in the relationship,was saying he was ok and demanding a drink from her, I’m not sure your anger at her is appropriate op. This must be hard for her too, and in tough times it is better to pull together not attack.

It’s definitely a generational thing. When my dad was having chest pains and radiating pain in his left arm (ie classic heart attack symptom) they waited a couple of hours to see if it improved then rang me to ask what they should do.

my mum in incapable of calling for an ambulance in case she gets ‘told off’ for wasting their time. It’s infuriating and has caused several long hospital stays for things that would have been much less serious had they been dealt with promptly.

That was not pimm's o'clock

It sounds like your mum is an old ditherer. It's not unusual. When my dad had a stroke my mum thought he was drunk (he usually is) and was surprised he couldn't walk.

Some people are crap in a crisis. Especially as they age. I'm shit in a crisis, have called ambulances before in pure panic.

It sounds like your mum didn't really know what to do. Despite you telling her to call an ambulance she didn't. Probably thought it a bit extreme for not being able to read.

If you need to be angry at someone then it should be your dad for not phoning.

But even then, he may not have realised his bad it was.

Why are you blaming your mum when your dad could have phoned or asked her to phone.

I get angry when I’m sad/scared so I do understand but there is no one to blame here.

Just move on.

Firstly I hope your dad can make a good recovery after his stroke.
I unfortunately found Dh collapsed on the floor one morning, conscious but I knew straight away he’d had a stroke. My immediate reaction was to call my next door neighbour who is a nurse, she came round within a minute and called an ambulance which I’d say was there within 5 minutes. Dh was taken to the stroke unit of a major city hospital and had a blood clot removed within an hour of being admitted.

I’ve actually had first aid training many times for work but I was in total shock and panic , I’m not sure why I didn’t call for an ambulance first , I was on my own and really scared .
It’s an awful situation to be in, maybe your parents felt afraid to face what was happening and as your dad was asking for a drink they didn’t think it was too serious.
Obviously you are upset and are aware of how much more serious the situation could have been. It might be a good time to discuss with them how they feel about emergency medical treatment, my own mum didn’t want any resuscitation or invasive treatment and when the time came her wishes were respected .
Its very hard as your parents get older and have health issues, I’ve been there, 200 miles away so I know how difficult it can be for everyone involved.

Hi @Cardinalita90 May I share something with you, I am a healthcare professional in their 60s and during the first year of lockdown, I had a TIA... now bear in mind, my sister had suffered the same five years earlier, we have a genetic predisposition to high chloresterol and my father died from a thumping great heart attack... I initially missed it because the symptoms were bizarre. On a Thursday evening I got a tingling upper lip, I had eaten grapes and failed to wash them (clutch your pearls as necessary) and assumed it was an allergic reaction to an insectiside spray.

On the Saturday morning, I woke up with the bottom right portion of my face numb and, pins and needles in my arm which subsided... I hosted a three hour online call for friends (it was Covid) and then asked, do you think I should bother 111 with this? I had none of the FAST symptoms per se, and initially I was told I probably had an inner ear issue, so an appointment was made at A&E for 8:30pm and it was only subsequently that I realised that I had been having a bleed for at least 48 hrs. By 1:30am it was agreed it was a stroke, but that I could go home... so I walked to the High Street and caught the night bus home, with a 20 min walk to get back to the house!

I suspect that your mum was scared, your dad was probably the same and had thought if he ignored it, it would sort itself out and she did not want to cross him. Unfortunately there is no one to blame in these situations, but the good news is that he is in the right place and your mum will know precisely what to do next time and trust her judgement and the instructions of others. Wishing your dad a speedy recovery.

I understand your anger, because you've had a scare. I hope your dad is better soon.
I remember going to see my parents, I think it was July, and my dad was shivering in front of the fire with a swollen head/jaw. My sister said our normally stoic dad had been wailing in pain at times upstairs. He insisted he was fine. I got so annoyed I rang 111 myself who in turn were annoyed with me because the patient wasn't co-operating, wouldn't go on the phone and kept saying he didn't need 111. Apparently mum intended to call them, but dad just wouldn't entertain it?! After the call, he was ordered to A&E and had emergency surgery for cellulitis.
Second time, husband was visiting parents, but rang me to say he was in some pain, bit concerned etc. DILs rang me, en route to their holiday, to say don't worry, he's fine, dodgy sarnie etc etc. I was dubious, rang him, and he was in so much pain he couldn't speak so I drove straight over from work and found him lying on the floor. I took him to A&E whilst he vomited bile and he was admitted for emergency appendectomy.
I was pretty astounded, but I see a massive difference how clued up my generation is vs the parents. I've been taught to speak up, make a fuss, advocate, risk overreacting.. the parents are markedly different in that regard (as were their parents; my nan tried to send me away when I found her with a ruptured haematoma 🤯), and so stubborn too, in insisting everything is fine when it's obviously not!

Oh OP, I wholly get the “so defensive it isn’t worth raising it with them” - we have those family members too and it is infuriating. They just expect everyone to forget it and get over it but the things they do HURT.
You have my every sympathy and hoping you have someone in real life you can rant to who can validate your frustration.

Someone above mentioned elderly parents thinking of calling 999 as an 'almost dead' emergency and that resonated with me.

A few years ago my mother had a stroke, aged 80. She woke on the Sunday morning of a bank holiday weekend unable to use her right arm or hand. She and my dad waited until the day after the bank holiday then took themselves to the local hospital; their reasoning was that they didn't want to bother anyone at the weekend and it simply didn't occur to either of them to call an ambulance or ask for help. I live abroad and knew nothing about this until later, after DM was admitted to a bigger hospital for treatment. She's fine, thankfully, but gave us all a scare.

Best wishes to your dad, OP.

i feel for you, OP. FIL ignored MIL unconscious for hours and hours, eventually called DH and said he couldn’t move her (?) when DH got there, he thought she was dead! Called 999, it was flu, she was in hospital twice for it. We think FIL had a mini stroke himself. Neither of them has any memory of any of this including MIL being in hospital twice … DH found out recently that they both deny FIL has had a stroke, which he 100% has, and several tias. They refuse to take it seriously and seem unable to understand that a stroke might render him seriously disabled - not just be ‘a funny turn’ or fatal. They won’t ring 999. Because of this the treatment he’s had hasn’t been as good as it could have been. Neither of them has dementia! It’s very frustrating!

How old are your parents?

Could your mum have undiagnosed alzheimers or early dementia?

How does she normally handle a crisis?

Is she normally a person who ignores medical issues in herself or others - the kind who would send you to school even when you were clearly running a fever or had diarrhoea, etc?

How is her medical knowledge in general?

Is she normally a person who goes against sensible advice for some reason?

I think when this type of dynamic is at play there is very little anyone else can do.

I remember an episode of 24 hours in A+E where a very very chastened man was told he would be dead if his wife hasn’t called an ambulance- but we had seen footage of him giving out to her for making a fuss and blowing everything up out of proportion.

Obviously your Mum has had decades of this, and knowing the payback you receive for getting it wrong I am totally not surprised that she waited. You would be much more effective talking to your Dad and getting him to support your mother in executive decisions.

nonetheless I wish him a speedy recovery and you all a Happy Christmas.

Her dad's brain had its blood supply interrupted by a bleeding blood vessel. A stroke is an injury to the brain.

This can cause a patient to stop processing information and bodily sensations, recalling information such as 'signs of a stroke' he might have seen on posters in a GP's office, and in general, thinking clearly.

Ffs.

This. I was about to post something similar.

Exactly and not just in strokes, where there is a limited time window for treating with clot busters or other interventions or establishing via CT scan whether it's a brain bleed or an ischemic stroke.

I recently had a situation where a relative in their late 70s developed symptoms consistent with a UTI, a few hours later they were delirious and could not stand or walk around safely. After carrying out ECGs and other tests, the attending paramedics decided that he did not have capacity to decide whether he consented to being hospitalised for IV antibiotics and admitted him without obtaining his consent. He was kept in for 4 days with infection and intermittent confusion.

So yes, there are times when a patient may not have the capacity to make decisions.

I am happy to read you are working it out. I think the best way forward is to talk down the NHS. That sounds controversial but you have to try and make her attentive to your df needs. My partner met a woman in her 80's who was a nurse and her husband who was a barrister and was in and out of hospital she was attentive and she saw the flaws in today's nurses. She was very OCD. You have to persuade her to take your father's health issues seriously. She is the only one who can give your dad the comfort he needs. Be gentle and caring without coming across as judgemental good luck.

You could try using a middle man, someone who has a better effect on your mothers emotions. Someone needs to address the issues with her and help her realise the issues at hand.

When my husband had a stroke, I had my coat on and was telling him to get in the car within seconds of it starting. I’m an HCP so knew immediately what the symptoms mean and that speed is of the essence. With the current state of the ambulance service I calculated it would be quicker to drive him to A&E where they have a stroke unit.

DH was not keen and refused. He deteriorated rapidly so within minutes I phoned 999. Our DS was with us, 17 at the time, and I went into work mode. I got him to help DH into the sitting room where there was more room to carry out CPR and sent DS outside to wait for the ambulance.

It was during Covid restrictions so we were not allowed to accompany him. However our rapid response meant he was seen in time to receive clot busting drugs and made a good recovery.

Without my healthcare training I don’t think I would have acted so quickly. I would have probably waited to see if he recovered himself since his first symptom was dizziness but his facial droop happened along side this, along with numbness and weakness down one side. I knew what questions to ask since stroke victims are often confused and don’t always list their symptoms voluntarily.

Being calm in a crisis is not a universal default. If you observe an incident most will be running around like headless chickens randomly remembering odd bits they have picked up off the TV or first aid courses.

I once had to assist in our local pub when the landlord had a funny turn.His family had rung an ambulance but then rung his extended family who were all arriving having driven like lunatics to get there. I managed to move him into the bar which had been cleared but then one of the regulars burst in with his St John’s ambulance training ( 2hrs course in 1978). Much as it is valuable you are always told to defer to a more qualified person. He immediately forced the landlord into the recovery position, not necessary, he was conscious and there were around 100 people in and around the pub. In moving him I could no longer see his face so couldn’t monitor his colour, also sitting up is much more comfortable for a conscious patient with chest pain. He then suggested we start CPR, at this point I told him to F off. Fortunately the paramedics arrived at that point and he was taken to A&E. He survived but then 12 months later suffered another massive coronary and didn’t make it.

Years of CPR training and working within healthcare encourages you to stop and think before tearing around. You also learn to ignore what the patient wants because they are often petrified and desperately don’t want it to be what is often obvious to them. No one wants to be diagnosed with a stroke, heart attack or cancer.

My DH’sDF had a catastrophic stroke 12 mnths before DH had his so his fear of what could happen was real. But my FILs was a due to a catalogue of delays and dismissal of symptoms by my MIL who found her husbands health problems an inconvenience. He was also 80 and a high risk. DH’s stroke came out of the blue. One thing that came out of it was that DS is like me, he stops processes and then acts. He knew that there is defibrillator for public use in the old phonebox 20 yds down the road and asked if he needed to fetch it, so he was thinking logically. When the paramedics were taking DH to the ambulance he spotted that he couldn’t hold up his head so he supported it as they wheeled the chair up the drive, narrowly avoiding DH clattering his head against the car.

I think that you did exactly what was needed. Even though you were not present you recognised the symptoms of a stroke and acted accordingly. I have always told DS to FaceTime me if there is an emergency. That way I can see what is happening. I think it’s worth making sure all elderly parents should be able to access FaceTime. It’s no more difficult than a phone call and if you use it for regular communication it becomes normal for them.