I’ve cancelled a Christmas invitation to my DM for her and my DB to be included in a family meal out at a Toby Carvery

[LizzieW1969]

To clarify, we are seeing my DM on the 29th so I’m not refusing to see her at all. Although not my DB, as my DSis and her family will be there too, and she won’t have anything to do with him. (My DD2 (13) is living with them - talked about elsewhere so not for this thread, it’s a very emotional subject.)

The issue is that my DB sexually abused my DSis and me when we were growing up (mainly her). He was groomed to do this by others to do so, including our F, and was abused himself and he’s very vulnerable. This is why I do have occasional contact with him. But I kept him away from my DDs for 10 years.

I was persuaded by my DM to allow contact recently between him and DD1 (16) when we celebrated her birthday at the cinema (we watched the Downton Abbey finale). She and my DB barely saw each other, though. The problem is that I’ve set a precedent now, I think.

I’m finding that my DM is pushing me constantly about contact between my DB and my family, as she’s concerned about what will happen to him when she’s no longer around. (She’s 86 years old so I do understand that.)

I always end up feeling very conflicted about the whole subject of my DB, after talking to my DM about him. I know that he’s very damaged and needing support but I still feel like I need to keep him at arm’s length because of the past.

But she wants to know that there’s a supportive family in the background when she’s no longer around for him

Where was the supportive family for your siblings who was a victim of sexual abuse?

None of you have any responsibility, obligation or requirement to support him when your mum isn't able to any more. You have my permission to resolve yourself of any duty to look after him in any way at all. He's brought this on himself. Plenty of single men manage by themselves into old age, you don't have to do anything.

Have any of the crimes got to court? Has anyone acknowledged the damage and has there been any remorse shown by those who were complicit.
You’ve had an enormous amount of shit to deal with. Stick with your gut feelings.

My F has been dead for many years, since 1998. There was one man who the police were able to find based on our description though because we didn’t know him or even his name the ID was considered by the CPS to be insufficient for a prosecution, although the police were confident they had found the man involved. The others were all dead.

We reported my DB, but the police considered that there was no public interest in prosecuting him. My DSis and I could have pressed charges but we both agreed not to do so because of his vulnerability.

This.

Is your 16 year old daughter aware he sexually abused you and your sister?

In addition, my own health isn’t good now, Long Covid, plus a hiatus hernia, IBS, short-term memory problems along with occasional confusion. I definitely can’t deal with any of this right now.

Well you're going to have to.

She knows about my F, not my brother. I don’t think it’s fair to tell her more; she’s adopted and read her later life letter recently, which revealed that her birth mum was sexually abused too, so that would be too much information IMO.

I’ve dealt with it by putting it off. I’ve said no to seeing my DB.

This. Why do you allow him to see your children?

My brother is like yours. Has not had contact with our (now adult) children. They are your priority.

Put it off?

How about telling them both to fuck off.

How old were you all when this happened?

Was your brother SA’d from a young age by your Dad and his accomplices too?

No way I would let my own children have a relationship with him or be near him but I can also see why you view him as vulnerable too.

Both my DSis and I see my DM but rarely. I haven’t spoken to my DB outside of a couple of arranged meet-ups during the last 3 years or so.

Prioritise your health then as well as your DC's wellbeing and safety.

Go NC with all of them except your DSis, and prioritise peace in your life.

You may need the support of a therapist to go through this if you haven't had therapy already, but the continued stress of having to deal with your severely dysfunctional and abusive family will be worse for you in the long run than cutting them off will be.

My Dad didn’t actually abuse my DB, others did that. It first happened to him when he walked in on my DSis and me being abused. He was 10 years old and was forced to join in. He then copied the behaviour afterwards.

He’s very damaged, not surprising.

Absolutely not. He should have no contact ever with your children. I have 2 child sexual abusers in my close family. I have absolutely no contact with them myself, but there is no way they’d get anywhere near my children.

We do not go to anything where they’ll be. They are not allowed to send my children any presents or to sign their name to any cards that cross my door - they all go straight in the bin if they try. I do not even acknowledge their existence with my children other than to say they are bad people who did hurtful things to others and we do not have them in our lives.

Your children will not thank you for bringing him into their worlds - especially if your dd is already not living at home. She has enough going on to need further stuff piled on her. My mum brought a man around me who had a history of child sexual abuse. Her putting her own needs and people pleasing ahead of my safety and wellbeing completely fractured our relationship. As an adult, I have nothing to do with her. I don’t even know where she lives anymore. Don’t do that to your relationship with your dd.

You are under NO obligation to look after your abuser in his old age.

Your dm is deluded.

Your Dsis is doing the right thing.

It sounds like you’ve already been slightly influenced with the ‘it’s not his fault/ poor Dbro’ and that’s your choice.

Not your kids- you need to protect them.

Put it this way- your dd wants to go to her friends, friends uncle Jay is there who’s a lovely guy but years ago he sexually abused his 2 sisters. But uncle Jay would love to meet and get to know your dd - he’s committed a crime in the past but he couldn’t help it he had problems.

What’s your response about your daughter getting to know uncle Jay?

Your mom says she didn’t know ( she most probably did) but she certainly knows now… so she shouldn’t be asking you to support your abuser. NO

You've all been terribly abused and it's just horrific but you are not the right person for your mum to be expecting to support your brother.

You don't have to do anything that you don't feel comfortable with OP, your mum needs to get social services involved with your brother if he is vulnerable and needs support.

She really needs to sort his care out properly now though - and not by trying to emotionally blackmail you into doing it.

Families where sexual abuse happens always lack boundaries in other areas of life as well. Your mother and brother simply do not understand that some red lines, once crossed, change relationships permanently. They do not understand that no means no. They probably never will understand it. If you keep having contact with them, making some concessions while saying no to other things, then to their perception, the door is open. They can keep pushing and eventually wear you down until they get everything they want.

The only way to put a stop to the pressure, the manipulation and the boundary-trampling is to say no once, to everything, and then stick to it. Stop contact. You have the right to live in peace and without guilt. Your brother’s miserable future is so far from being your problem it’s in a different stratosphere.

Having read all your posts this is horrific, for you and your DSis, and DB at 10 years old. However that does not excuses his abuse of you both. You tried to keep your mum happy by having your brother at the cinema trip. Which confirmed to you that you don’t want any contact. Stand firm on that, no contact now, or ever. Your boundaries are yours to assert. His vulnerability etc is not your concern. Your wellbeing and that of your family is. Try not to get drawn into manipulation by your mum and stand firm. You’re doing the right thing.

I wouldn’t see your mum either tbh

Why, just why.

But she wants to know that there’s a supportive family in the background when she’s no longer around for him. That’s what this is aboutnts to know that there’s a supportive family in the background when she’s no longer around for him. That’s what this is about.

There isn’t. There isn’t a supportive family background for him because of what’s happened. There isn’t going to be.

The cinema trip has muddied the waters because you’ve given her an inch so now she will try to take a mile. It would have been easier to maintain no contact with him but you need to strongly reassert the boundary.