Would you give up a dear friend because their partner hates you?

[fridgemonkey]

I'll keep it as brief as I can, but a bit of background will put it in context.

I have a friend, who was also my first love. We were together as teenagers, through uni, and into the first couple of years of adult life (living together). There was animosity when we broke up (on both sides) but we worked through it and became friends. Real friends, with no added benefits. He is one of the good guys and I love him dearly; he is part of my history.

We both, obviously, went on to other relationships and he is now married with a small daughter, and I am with my man and we have a young son.

Here's the point. His wife hates me - she has made that very clear. I've met her a couple of times, including her wedding, she has refused my friendship overtures and acts as though I am dirt on her shoe. She dislikes that we are in sporadic contact. We don't live in the same city, so maybe meet up a few times a year for dinner (which she is also invited to, and always refuses), and maybe email each other once every couple of months, (I use their joint email address, so she can see exactly what I've written). Really, we're not in each other pockets at all.

She emailed me yesterday (without his knowledge, as far as I know) and said that she wants me to stop seeing/talking to Andy because it makes her uncomfortable, and that if I don't, it will confirm her suspicions about me. WTF??

I can't tell Andy, because he'll go mental, but I don't want to give in to her, because frankly, I think she's nuts. I also dontt see why I should be dictated about who I can and can't see. So what would you do? Ignore her? Or do what she says? Because I am unable to see a sensible way out of this.

Did she email you out of his and her joint account?

Message withdrawn

No, she emailed from her work address? Why?

because if it was me, I would reply to the joint address. A very reasonable email, though.

Would you both really say something? But what? I really don't want to cause trouble between them.

Agree with Quint.. reply to the joint address and attach her original email too. You need to be open and be seen to be open. Add your DH/DP as a cc too.

Message withdrawn

Honey, if she is emailing you this ludicrous demand, there is already problems between them, and there is nothing you can do. And there is nothing you SHOULD do.

I would say something like.
Dear Beatrice, I am sorry you feel so insecure about my friendship with Alan. I know there is nothing I can say to reassure you. If I do stop contact with him as you demand, this will only pander to the insecurities you have and will not really help anybody. If I did NOT end my friendship with him it does not prove any particular point apart from this: I wont be dictated. I hope you managed to work out your issues about me, Best regards .... "

Jeez Quint, that's very good.
I however would walk away. Say nothing. If he notices your absence and asks why then tell him. Then it's his place to sort it out.

Hmm, you are all making a lot of sense.
Do you mind if I cut and paste QS?

I don't think I've done anything specific to make her dislike me. I feel that my
breathing will pretty much have done it.

My favoured "head in sand" approach isn't really going to cut it this time, is it?

Lord, the rolling eyes from my DP as he gets dragged into this ridiculous drama, are going to be horrendous.....

That is a truly sticky one Fridgemonkey. This is so finely balanced it's almost impossible to make the "right" judgement.

I would possibly do one of two things, which can be a little more subtle than tell him/don't tell him as such.
Option 1. Surely your friend must is aware that his DW doesn't like you and him being friends. Therefore it shouldn't come as an enormous surprise to him if you hint that you are sensing your meetings are causing trouble and perhaps it's better if you stick to Christmas cards and meeting up every 1-2 years instead of a couple of times a year. You don't have to say about the email specifically, just say you notice that she never wants to build a friendship with you, has been cold etc etc. You can leave it with him to raise with his wife, the ball is in his court. If he continues to see you as regularly as usual and his wife mails again, tell her to take it up with him from now on as it is his choice to continue your friendship as it is.

If your friend does end up seeing you less instead then perhaps although v v sad it would seem he has put his wife before you which although a real shame for your long standing friendship, is quite right. (whether she is right for demanding it or not isn't the point, it's his perogative if he wants to pander to her or not).

Option 2 - Mail the wife back and tell her there's absolutely nothing to worry about and if she has a problem with her DH meeting with you then it's DH she needs to take it up with, not you. Try to reiterate first though that you would very much like to be friends with her too (ultimately best case scenario is that you all get on). Good luck

Or you could email him back and say 'oh no dear, Andy will just not stand for being told what to do, you see when I was with him, I gave him as much freedom as he needed and as such we never had any jealousy issues. Hope that helps'

If anyones still reading perhaps I can give a perspective from 'the wife's' position. I had/have a similar situation. My DH had one relationship before he met me, childhood sweetheart, first love etc etc. They split up waaay before he met me but I know DH held a candle for her for a long time and the breakup was nasty (fault on both sides but she cheated). They were still in contact when I met him, IMO she was dangling a carrot and stopping him moving on (not saying you are BTW ) so even if inappropriate I was/am very angry with her for the way she hurt him and found it difficult to undertand why he was still in contact, sending her money etc.

The whole thing made me very uncomfortable and unhappy even though I did not for one second think DH would ever be unfaithful/go back to her. We had many long and deep conversations about it. It was and is entirely my issue. HOWEVER, it is an ISSUE for me and its MY marriage and his loyalities should lie with ME. I asked DH to cool/cut contact with her which he did. They have very occasional contact now, she's married with a child of her own. I don't like it but accept it becuase DH honoured my initial request to keep his distance and respected my feelings.

This is their marriage you're talking about. IMO you should back off completely. If you freind asks you why you should be as tactful as possible and say no more than you don't feel its appropriate now he's married as you don't think his DW is comfortable with it. NOTHING else, you just don't have the right ... IMO

Thanks for all your opinions - and Pheebe, it's helpful to see it from another perspective.

I was feeling a bit taken aback, as I can't see anything wrong about our friendship. I'm not a particularly jealous person and find other people's issues a bit odd.

However, I think it's really her problem, not mine. I'm not getting into any drama with her, and it's not down to me to pander to her insecurites - they can sort it out between themselves. I'm going to email her politely and suggest (as per MissDelighted - do you work for ACAS, 'cos you should. What a negotiator )that she takes it up with A, and they can figure out what to do from then on.

You have grown up with Andy and you share a lot of your past with him. He's one of your dearest friends. Therefore of course you want to keep him in your life. And if he is as happily married as you think, his wife should be more accepting of your friendship.

But don't send a sarky letter, even if you are longing to and even though you think you ar justified in doing this.

It will take away any chance of building a better relationship with Andy's wife in future. It will fuel her distrust and dislike of you. You must take the moral high ground and be blameless.

If Andy's wife feels you hate her back, it gives her even more ammunition to get Andy to stop seeing you. It she insists Andy has to choose between you, chances are he will agree to stop seeing you at all.

I also wonder just how happy Andy is in his marriage and how nice he is to his wife.

It is possible he is a lovely friend to you but a less lovely husband to her, and is playing on her insecurities. For her to feel this degree of animosity, it is possible Andy is not entirely blameless. It is possible he is being unfaithful to her, and she suspects and has her radar on alert, but has got the wrong person - you. As you live in different cities and are in sporadic contact, a lot could be happending that you are not aware of.

That's just a thought - it would be interesting to know if Andy sees other female friends and his wife accepts this as ok. And how does she feel about his female work colleagues?

I think you need to tell your friend that you feel his wife is not happy about you two meeting up so much. But in a 'what can we do to patch things up' sort of way.

Is Andy keen on you and his wife being more friendly btw? as, of course, some people are not happy when two of their long term partners get on well.

IMO don't reply to the wife. Just ignore it.

Why don't you just NOT be the one to instigate the next contact with your friend? If he's your true friend who is active in this friendship you describe then he'll be in touch.

Leave it to him.

His wife presumably thinks YOU are chasing HIM. But if and when HE contacts YOU to suggest meeting up you can say "I'd love to but perhaps you'd better run that by your wife and get back to me".

I think to reply to the wife in a provocative manner (ie say "what's your problem?" in a wrapped up polite way) is just another way of saying "wanna fight?"

Pheebs is right. I've thought about it and think you shouldn't email back or cause issues for them by emailing the joint account. It's their problem and if their marriage would be a happier one with you not around then you should grant him this. You love him and want him to be happy right? if he fights for your friendship thats nice but it's not your place to tell them how to best deal with her insecurities.
Stay away, dignity in tact.
And maybe when they have resolved their issues and are feeling stronger, you can be a friend to them both, but it's up to them.
Sorry if this isn't what you want to hear, but wanted to give my honest opinion.
good luck.

xpost - I'm with tigermoth!

Lots of good advice on here. I am always of the opinion that jealous insecure people should be told to get the fuck over themselves and not pandered to, as pandering to them only makes them worse. People wno get rid of a partner's friends (He's MINE now! MINE MINE ALL MINE! WAAAAAAAAAHHHH!) usually end up getting deservedly dumped.
FWIW all the snooping, whining and emotional blackmail in the world will make no difference at all to a partner who is determined to have sex with other people, and if the partner is a monogamous person and a trustworthy human being, the partner will get sick of being whined at and wrongly accused and will flee.

Tigermoth makes some excellent points.

I can absolutely see the OP's point, and understand why you feel aggrieved.

However, had Andy's wife posted this problem from her point of view, I wouldn't mind betting that the majority of posters would be telling her that his loyalty should be to her as his wife, and that if it is a problem for her he should be putting her feelings first, whatever the facts, and cutting all contact.

I think, in your shoes, I would ask the wife to meet me and talk.

Looking as MissDelighted suggestion, I agree that you could send a polite reply to her email, as it would be rude not to respond.
I think you should reiterate that you'd like to be friends with her and are sorry that you don't see her more often. And you dh would love to see more of her, too. I'd say very little about Andy or about your friendship with him - be very careful here as you don't want to belittle her worries. Repeat in passing that you are old friends and consider copying in your dh into your email back so, so she can see you have nothing to hide from your own partner.

I don't know if he's nice to her - I would assume that he is. We meet up a couple of times a year and TBH, we don't really talk about our relationships. Lots of stuff about the kids and work and our old friends and just the usual rubbish, you know?

Maybe just not meet up again or email him is the way to go. I'd miss him, though, cos I like him, but if it winds her up that much..... oh, I don't know. I'd have to do it really gradually though, as he would suss something is up, if I just break off all contact.

If you ease off contacting Andy, I think you should make sure Andy realised it is because you don't want to put him in an awkward position with his wife. And ensure Andy feels he can always contact you if things change.

I have some old male friends from years back - some I see, one I have recently lost all contact with. I just don't know why he stopped phoning me after 20 years and I will always be upset about it

Well your friendship with him is obviously causing a problem in his marriage, whilst I can see that you have been fair to his wife in including and trying to befriend her, perhaps if you are as good a friend to him as you say then the right thing to do as a good friend to him would be to step back from the friendship and let him sort out his marriage.

Whilst I dont really think a partner should dictate who you can and cannot be friends with (particularly as you have both included her in all correspondence) his FIRST loyalty should be to her...put yourself in her shoes if your partner had a female friend you were unsure of....

Perhaps to you he is just a good platonic friend but maybe as his wife her radar is telling her that he is not as over you as he maintains.

O for a perfect world where we could all just 'get over' our jealousy's and insecurities' however minor. I generally find that people who ar so dismissive of other peoples 'jealousys and insecurities' are arrogant, emotionally stunted and lack any sort of empathy for others.

Fridgemonkey - perhaps the way to resolving this for yourself is to ask what would be served by stepping this up a notch (emailing her back and throwing the ball back into her court) or ignoring her feelings and continuing to see your friend. The risk you are taking is that this is a deal breaker for their marriage, your friend loses his wife, the future he thought he had with her, becomes a part time dad and is single and lonely again. But hey, he'll still be able to have dinner with you a couple of times a year. Sorry to be blunt . OK, it could be argued that if their marriage did break down over this it can't have been that strong, but could you live with yourself if you knew you'd brought that misery to your dear friends life?

Incidently, you don't know what your friend has told her about you. He may have laid it on thick when they first got together (played the sympathy card).

I think the idea of simply not initiating contact yourself and tactfully getting your friend to check with his wife if/when he does is a good one. At most I think I might reply and say how sad you are, that of course you will respect her wishes and that you hope that perhaps sometime in the future her feelings might change (thats what I would do anyway). You might find that if her feelings are respected she may be able to relax about it and 'let you in'.