Lack of affection? Am I expecting too much?

[waitingtobloom]

Im six months pregnant at the moment and dont know whether the hormones are getting to me or whether it is a problem that is always there but is exacerbated at times like this. I am so sorry at the length of this post - cannot talk to anyone else and really miserable with it all.

Basically my DH has never been that affectionate or understanding of emotions and it has got worse over time. He has a tendency to be extremely logical/practical and emotions or how things make me feel never seem to play a role in it.

Thinking back it has always been like that but I think I kind of hoped things would change or he would get better - always blamed it on stress or something but nothing has changed.

He never ever tells me he loves me and when I question it he seems confused and says I should just know. He rarely hugs me, doesnt kiss me, wont cuddle with me etc - unless he wants sex. And then when he does want sex there is no affection with it - its about getting on with having an orgasm and nothing else.

At six months pregnant he has never once stroked my bump and refuses to try and feel baby kick. I have stopped talking to him about the baby because last pregnancy he had a major go at me for mentioning something to do with the baby nearly every day. He doesnt come to appointments or scans with me, doesnt know when they are, doesnt ask etc. But if I question him about it again he seems really shocked that I would feel unloved/uncared about and gives some very logical reason why not - completely devoid of any emotion. He was the same last pregnancy - wouldnt even come home from work when I was sent to the hospital at 37 with high bp. I had to drive myself - was told to ring him if they were going to induce me. When DS was born he went to work whilst I was in labour as I couldnt be definite when he would be born and he might of missed a days work "for nothing". When DS was born he went home afterwards - he had to and did need some sleep - but made sure he got his full 8 hours, leisurely breakfast etc before coming back to the hospital 12 hours later leaving me sitting alone.

Our son recently had an operation and he wasnt in the least bit stressed or worried by any of it. He couldnt understand why I was worried about it and why it upset me. Its as if he cant experience emotion.

The one thing I can never forget and I know I have to just forgive and forget about is our wedding night. Sometime during the night I fell asleep, woke an hour or so later to find him missing. Rang him and rang him with no answer. He finally rings back - he had gone home (staying in posh local hotel) as he couldnt sleep in a strange bed. Apparently he would pick me up after breakfast - couldnt see anything wrong with this at all.

Today he has just announced he is going to work fathers day - self employed and does not need to.

I am sorry to list so many examples and ramble on but I am desperately unhappy. If I explain any of this to him its as if he just does not understand. Its not as if he is cold and horrible to me but the emotion is not there. He is like it with others too - barely shrugged his shoulders at the news of his mum having breast cancer. He somehow manages to turn it back to me - I am too needy, have issues or am expecting too much emotionally from a man. He often tells me he is the nicest man he knows and other men would be far worse. None of this is said in a horrible way - he geninely believes it all.

I dont know what to do - I really need some affection and support but dont know if I am over reacting.

Any ideas or experiences? Shoudl I just accept this? I just feel so lonely.

he sounds v wierd. wedding night thing was v v v bad - and he sounds v strange. sorry, no advice, but honestly - if he was like this before you married then you knew what you were getting.

Wow. I can understand why you are so unhappy. You seem to have stuck with him for a long time. Have you been hoping that he'd change? Or has it all just kind of snuck up on you?

Do you always feel this sad and lonely?

I don't know what to suggest, but I really don;t think you're overreacting. I'm sure that I couldn't tolerate your situation.

Have you suggested marriage counselling?

He was always pretty un emotional but it has got a lot lot worse. And at the start it was one of those things I just kind of stupidly glossed over- believed the argument that men were just non emotional.

Things have got worse since we got married - doesnt like sitting on the same sofa as me (his argument we have two sofas we can have one each) and more so since having DS as I have seen other peoples grown up relationships for want of a better word and see how loving their partners can be.

It all came to a head a few weeks back when a friend had mentioned how she was supporting a friend who had finished a relationship for similar reasons. Every example she gave just reminded me of my relationship.

I just dont know what to do as I cant get him to see there is a problem and I feel I cant make a huge stand as there is nothing overtly wrong - its not like we are arguing etc.

Nothing overtly wrong? I would disagree with that somewhat! You don't seem to have much of a relationship, in fact a relationship of any kind. What do you get out of it? What do you feel for him?

I guess you have to have a good long think about whether you are prepared to live in an affection-less marriage or not.

If you are, then you have to accept the way he is and try to focus on all the positives in your relationship.

If you aren't, then perhaps you should give him an ultimatum along the lines of:

'I know that you don;t think there's a problem, but the way that our marriage is working is a problem for me.'

Give him some specific examples of his behaviour and say that unless things change, you don't see how you are going to be able to be able to carry on with him. Then suggest that you go to counselling together to try and improve matters.

Don't know if that makes any sense.....?

Do you think he may actually have mental health issues? I'm sorry - this may be well off the mark, but ds has aspergers sydrome, as does a friend's dh and his behaviour reminded me of both of them.

What ever the problem it's an awful situation to be in and no this is not normal. I can only suggest that counselling is a place to start - even if you just go on your own.

Provinical lady - I just feel that I have kind of made my decision to marry him and have children and now I have to deal with that. DS loves him - I couldnt justify leaving because I felt unloved when he hasnt done anything like cheat on me/hit me/use me etc

Izzy - you are right this needs to come out but I know the response will be its my fault. I think he genuinely believes he is wonderfully caring. Told me the other day he had been my rock throughout this pregnancy apparently - i was open mouthed. I just have this awful doubt that it is me as he will tell me and that other men are even less affectionate than him.

Thank you for your responses - it helps to know that at least some people dont think Im mad. I cant talk about it to my friends as feel embarrassed really - have never ever told anyone the wedding night story before.

Lucky - I have wondered about aspergers a number of times and some other bits of his behaviour actually seem similar. This is what I worry about because he is not acting in a cold way - its just like the emotion isnt there - that he doesnt understand it.

I thought about Aspergers too when reading your post,my ds and other family members have asd,also my exh has similar difficulties with emotions.There's a book on it 'Living with Dr/Mr Spock'(or something like that)which I found interesting to read.

Sorry you're having a hard time.

he sounds like my exH who was often completely devoid of emotion. One example was when DS2 was 7 months he was in a life threatening situation with bronchiolitis and he came into hospital next day and just stared at him. Offered no emotional support at any time.

Similarly once when I was ill on way to work, reluctantly called him and he grudgingly came and fetched me in a taxi and then
took me back to his work.

Even the other day we were talking about knife crime, I said DS1 was scared and he started banging on about why are people so hysterical and people just don't consider the risk. When 7/7 was happening he kept telling me the risk of being caught in a terrorist incident was so small and should stop being so emotional. Turned out a work colleague's son was killed in 7/7 and other people in the vicinity of my workplace in central london.

One of his female friends suggested he has aspergers. But by that time the rot had truly set in. Was mildly affectionate before DS1 but that dwindled after his birth, obviously we conceived DS2 (to order LOL) and after DS2 no affection and hardly any sex.

I found living with a man like that sucked all the joy out of life and the joy out of me.

Not very positive, I am afraid but hope that helps.

sorry that the risk is so minimal!!

Haven't had time to read all of this thread, but definitely thought of Aspergers when I read the original post.

There was an article in a recent Sunday Telegraph magazine about relationships with Aspergic men - might be worth your doing a search on their website.

You are not being unreasonable - if you decide to stay and work at this relationship, then you might have to seriously compromise your expectations of the emotional side of your marriage.

I don't think my DH is any different from my girlfriends when it comes to emotional support - I don't agree that men are all diferent from women in this way.

Sorry to hear about your situation.

Thank you everyone for your support and for realising its not as cut and dry as just leaving. Not just me to think about in all of this and its not as if its 100% miserable - just the emotional support isnt there which is unfortunately a big part.

I think I may have a look at some of those books - know a lot about ASD in general and a lot of his other behaviour fits. Very much likes his routine eg bed at the exact same time whether he is tired or not, follows rules exactly, doesnt socialise often with friends, cant recognise emotions in others etc etc.

I know he tries sometimes to make me feel more supported and if its simple things he seems to learn them as a rule and then apply them. He has recently started asking me (if he remembers) how my day goes because I told him I was so upset about it. But then when he has done this for a while says "see ive been asking you because you say it makes you feel unloved if i dont"...not because he wants to ask or understands but because its a rule to follow.

Thank you again for all your support - it is nice to have some understanding from somewhere!!!

Waitingtobloom - omg we share a dh....my dh even describes himself like the book suggested, dr spock...I feel quite shaky and tearful. Was just thinking about the lack of affection in our relationship this morning. Not got much time to talk, he will be back soon.

I feel so isolated by it, so unloved and not needed by him. He does the 'of couse I do' when I have asked if he loves me. He laughs off his lack of affection. He hugs when he wants sex then I feel all horrid and upset afterwards, very used. He does kiss me when we say hello or goodbye but very functionally...no snogging...he always looks quite bemused/slightly irritated if I do try to snog him or hug him. Sometimes he just stands rigid with his arms down by his sides when I hug him, as I'm getting in his way. He also goes by the clock for everything...its comical. Up in the morning same time, to bed at night same time...tho he has got slightly more flexible now. He generally hates any change in routines...I really need to fight for any changes. I too have wondered about divorce, just to find a man who will offer a hug without being asked first, or to give me a snog or anything affectionate!! On the plus side he is very affectionate with our dd. In the early days when I most needed a hug, he used to point blank refuse and say 'dd needs all the affection'...months I went without a hug

I feel so emotional now...

Sorry its me me me but just want you to know you are not alone...I think I'm going to get that Dr Spock book...I cannot believe there is a book of that name...........or another person with a similar dh. My dh is self employed too...that is his excuse for not taking days off...

Oh and we go the same place on holiday, twice a year...every year since we got together...

And does your dh like maths/science...my dh is a fanatic for maths...every night for an hour...2 hours on saturday...he also talks the hind leg off a donkey about his beliefs (science/politics/history/geography/you name it)...maybe just him...asks my opinion then walks all over it because he is right. And apparently I'm too emotional in the way I act/am... does your dh also eat a very ridgid diet? My dh has the same thing everyday, for every meal bar saturday/sunday which is also a set meal...

I'll keep a watch on this thread...

And heres a ((((hug)))) for the one's your missing.

He does sound like he has Aspergers, so he genuinely doesn;t understand why you are unhappy. It's unlikely he will change (but then people don't change their behaviour if they don't want to and if he is happy with life there is no reason for him to want to change) so you will have to consider if you can live with a man who is unemotional (which is not the worst thing in the world) and get emotional support from your mum\best friend/sister ir whether you want to end the relationship.

Oh my god Weseardh that sounds so like my exDH who I have described here. I know he is my ex but of coure I still have to interact with him and also to understand how he relates to DCs. Because sometimes he upsets them.

He does eat quite a rigid diet and likes routine. And always said I was much too emotional. Keen to spout off/pontificate about science, history and politics. I find his world/life view profoundly depressing.

Could he have Aspergers or be Autistic?

I really feel for you Sometimes you can be much lonlier in a relationship than on your own. I have been in a relationship with an emotionless man - who made me believe I was being unreasonable to want more - I'm now in a relationship with the most loving and affectionate man who is a wonderful stepfather to DD1 and a wonderful dad to DD2.
Your DH definitely sounds aspergersy IMO, however,whatever the reason he's unlikely to change massively, so I think you need to decide whether you can live with him as he is for the rest of your life.
If not then you don't have to put up with it just because he hasn't hit you or cheated on you! Yes you married him but if you are miserable,and if things won't change, then you are entitled to change your mind. You won't get a medal for staying in a miserable situation - but you may well get depressed! Also consider what sort of example he is setting for your DCs - they will think thats how men should behave. Having said all that - now may not the time to be making big decisions - what you need now is to find a way of getting the emotional support you need - do you have family/friends who can come to apppointments with you or be your birth partner even? Have you thought about going to relate to talk - you can go alone if DH won't come.

Weshareadh - my god yes he sounds the same - its so nice to hear someone describing the same thing (although not that you are going through this too).

He is very into his routines - he goes to bed at the precise same time and seems genuinely confused if I decide to go to bed early or stop watching a programme half way through because I am tired (even if its just something mindless). He does the same thing day after day etc.

He has his obsessions - and is currently doing further training in an area where there are lots of rules to follow. He will watch the same episodes of programmes again and again - and I dont mean comedies or classic series. He used to be military police so very into following his rules. He cant understand if I do something that is not following the rules eg if I have roast chicken and decide I want apple sauce on my potatoes he doesnt understand as you "only" eat apple sauce with pork.

Strangely he is also affectionate with DS (who at least now is very affectionate and very switched on to emotions especially for a boy who isnt even two yet) but it took him until DS was at least a year and imposing his emotions on him eg going to him for a cuddle rather than DH instigating it. Now he does cuddle him and does love him.

The problem is I know deep down he loves me but its his version of love. I know he wouldnt cheat on me. He works very hard. But its the extreme logic I cant deal with and the logic always wins over my emotions - its as if they dont count because I think he genuinely doesnt understand how things make me feel.

Another thing - and this is always has a comedy value amongst my friends - are the things he can say. He is unable to lie and genuinely cant understand white lies as - quote "my mother told me it was wrong to lie". So i get fantastic comments such as "yes you have put on weight" "I didnt like where we went for our honeymoon" etc. For example (and I should have run at this point I think) I cooked him a romantic meal when we had been together about 2 weeks. It was fine (im no masterchef) but he told me he didnt really like it and would have preferred something else. Not what you say to someone you are apparently trying to impress.

Oh - and another classic for you. He proposed to me (one evening when i had a bad cold of all times) I said yes and then he said right, have to go to sleep now. I have to be in work in the morning. And proceded to fall straight asleep.

Looking back the warning signs were so there. Perhaps I didnt use to need this emotional support = perhaps things change when you have children I dont know but have certainly noticed it more now. I had awful pnd after having ds and im sure he contributed a lot by just not being there - he refused to sleep in the same room as me and ds until ds went into his own room at 6 months. His reasoning - he needed his sleep for work. Where was the point in two of us being tired - again entirely logical but lacking support/empathy etc

He also has very practical solutions - I remeber laughing with my health visitor (it was either that or sob for hours) when on hearing I had pnd and really needed support his response was to...spend all his evenings and weekends building the brand new patio I really wanted. Whenever i said I needed more support he would look confused and gesture to the patio...

People who know us - but dont know what he is like - think hes fantastic because on the surface its great. Just hes not there for me to the point where I stop telling him my worries etc because I know I wont get anywhere near the response I want.

Madamez - I think you really understand where I am coming from. How much should our partners offer us? Should we get things we need from (appropriate) other people.

I am not happy and when I think back if I felt like I do now before we got married I think I would be leaving. BUT we are married, we have a life together and a lovely son (and soon to be DD). A lot of people would be very envious of what we have - not realising the hurt the lack of emotion can bring.

I dont think its a case of not wanting to change - If I tell him what I need he tries but it doesnt really feel the same as hes not meaning it? But often he just doesnt understand the concept to do it I dont think.

OMG!!! again!! Same here!!

I completely to the letter mirror what you say about 'needing to sleep' when the baby was born!!! Separate rooms for 4 months (because I could cope alone no longer) omg omg omg...the obcessive watching of the same films over and over YES! My dh cannot understand when I like different things to him...I put it down to narcarsistic behaviour...but maybe not...he has real difficulty understanding why I like somethign different...he looks surprised and bemused... Agree totally with logic over emotions...he says that is how he functions...logical argument wins out against my emotions eveyrtime...I just give up asking/trying to get what I want...today I just asked him for more affection (NOT the first time!) he looks suprised and bemused again...puts his arm in a functional way over my shoulders and I'm the one cuddling him...he does not cuddle me...he just does the right thing...as requested by me 'put your arm round me'...My dh does tell the truth most of the time...but is capable of telling a white lie. Like your 'yes you have put on weight' that would make your mouth drop...

As for marriage proposal...he did not want to get married. Then one day sat in living room 'Well I've been thinking about it and we will get married so our children have the same name'. That was it. I was saying 'is that it? Nothing romantic?' 'no its a formality really isn't it?'. The best one was when I had just moved into my flat, we had been seeing each other about 4 months...we're in bed, conversation goes...

dh - 'So when you move into my house, you will need to cut down on the amount of things you have'

me, gobsmacked 'what? When I move in? When did we discuss this? You cannot just assume I'm going to??!'

dh - 'well we're getting on well so its only logical that the next step is moving in together, and my house is where we will live as its close to work for me' (there is logic in that...he goes at night to check on livestock)

But the assumption a) I would live with him, b) I would move to his c) get rid of my new flat?!?!?!

LIke your patio story!! Supportive...but just not in the way you would envisage!! You poor thing...I think I had pnd, world was a very grey place for first year...the lack of empathy, support, understanding, affection, all took its toll. I remember him going out to wet the babies head when she was only 2 weeks old, and she was starting a 24hr feeding frenzy because of a growth spurt. He could not understand why I wanted him to stay at home...at all...'but your breastfeeding...I can't help with that...'. OH and in labour...he read a FHM magazine and when I asked him to tell me I was doing really well...just as some sort of guidence for him...he did say it...but in a really worryed concerned voice...not really a bracing support for what I needed!! He said the words but was confused as to what they were all about...

ANd the affection...asking for affection and having it given in a 'I'm doing this because I have been asked to do this but don't understand why' does not really do the job, does it? I just what him to hug me....and MEAN it!

I cannot believe I'm not alone in this anymore...this all makes sense...I thought something was not right...but I wondered if I was wanting too much from him...he does have an abusive past...I put it down to that...

Sexandthecitylover - I can understand him being an 'ex' sometimes I wonder how I can cope with the lack of affection/understanding.

OMG this is freaky - and I am giggling out loud at the similarities - not because its funny but because I will cry if I dont.

'but your breastfeeding...I can't help with that...' - yes yes yes - said so many times.

Labour. Oh yes. Once he actually came home after I told him my waters had broken he proceded to leisurely have a shower and make himself something to eat before leaving for the hospital - well he was dirty and hungry wasnt he! During it he was watching wimbledon and eating smelly foods. Couldnt understand why I needed him to say I was doing well...and wait for it...he didnt think I was particularly coping well!!! He thought I had a low pain threshold and wouldnt cope very well with it. Afterwards he kept telling people that I didnt cope very well even though I kept saying how upsetting that was. This time I have told him I dont need him there - he has decided he is coming because its the right thing to do?!

Your moving in conversation sounds remarkably similar...we spent most of the time at his house...I got asked to contribute to the fuel bills as it was only fair apparently. We had been together a few weeks at most...how we ended up married I dont know.

I have just spent the last 10 minutes crying because (stupid me) I asked him what he thought of a maternity dress I had bought on ebay. Bear in mind its red herring and I thought it was very pretty - and perfect - cool, floaty etc. Was fidning myself quite attractive in it lol. Apparently "it does nothing for me "is not a nice dress" "makes me look bigger than i already am" and on and on and on...followed by "however very few of your maternity clothes make you look very nice". And he cant understand why im upset...of course i wont look my best with a big bump apparently (am actually very neat due to not having put on any weight yet at 6 months due to hyperemesis).

ARGHHH!!