Really confused in my marriage

[TheLoyalMintGuide]

I was wondering if I can have some advice. I’ve been married to dh for over ten years. We have two lovely children. I have a job I enjoy at the same company as dh - not ideal but it was the only job in my field that came up when we moved for dh’s job.

I am really confused about my relationship with dh. I really care about him, I think he can be so kind and patient, and funny. He’s intelligent and perceptive, and genuine. He does, i think, suffer from depression. He gets so down - normally about work- and talks to me about it a lot. I feel he is destroying my chance of enjoying my job because of his sadness and how much he moans about work. I am generally quite a positive person though quite sensitive probably. I want to enjoy my life. He can be really grumpy and snappy. In fact i think he probably gets annoyed with me over something trivial at least once a day. I find I am often nervous around him. At work I see his best side, but sometimes at home he can be really hard work.

other times he can be lovely and good fun and I feel maybe I am overreacting. He has on occasion really shouted at me which I hate - the loud noise sort of hurts my ears, and I kind of back off. If he’s in a bad mood even the smallest minor bicker can suddenly escalate, like this morning when he got a bit grumpy about something, I got a bit grumpy back and he basically stormed out of the house to go to work. I asked him if he was ok but he just walked off. I tried to ring him and said that I was upset but he said ‘well I’m upset too and I don’t have time for this right now’ and was really angry. I listened the other day to a podcast about the ‘let them’ theory so for once I didn’t argue back. I just said ‘ok then, see you later’. He hung up. I’m
now sick wirh nerves about what he’s going to be like when he comes back from work. I’m working from home today and I don’t know how I can concentrate.

I know this makes him sound awful but he’s not, he can be so lovely and kind. I can’t work out how to deal with him. I worry about his mental well-being all the time. I also worry about our children hearing us argue and I often try to keep the peace.

I feel so lonely. None of my friends know and I think they would be shocked if they heard how he speaks sometimes. I’ve hinted at it a few times to my mum but she’s unwell at the moment and don’t want to burden her. Sometimes if I am really honest I fantasise about being seperate and living on my own, though I know the fantasy could never live up to reality. I look at houses on Rightmove and daydream sometimes. I have the odd crush on other people which I never act on but again fantasise about being wirh them - one of them is married which is awful and I’d never act on it.

I realise I sound totally deluded. What can I do to make him realise he’s damaging our relationship with this? I’m not perfect I know. I don’t want to get divorced but I want to be happier. It’s so difficult because when he’s nice I find it hard to remember what he’s like when he’s not. Today I did the school drop off after our argument and I felt like I didn’t exist. I sometimes feel that way, I can’t explain it. Any help please.

I should add that his family have been so kind and welcoming to me. I would feel I was letting them down if we ever seperate. They’d be devastated as would be. I want to fix this.

discuss going to his gp calmly with him. If refuses then need to go with your gut

I am sorry OP. What you're dealing with here is a controlling manipulative man who uses his moods and behaviours to ensure you don't question him, and to keep you where he wants you. These are fairly classic narcissistic traits. He is using moods and silent treatment and DARVO tactics - all of which ensure you are constantly off blanace and only do what he wants and don't question or challenge him. Being nice when out and about is also pretty classic - it's only at home these things become clear.

I will put money on the fact that he probably has impacted many many aspects of your life - do you avoid going out with certain people, or even at all because it upsets him and/or he "punishes" you? Have you given up certain hobbies or interests because he doesn't like it? Do you avoid talking to men because he gets suspicious? Do you over explain the simplest thing because of how he will react? Have you stopped asking him to help with basic household or childcare related chores because it's not worth it? Do you cook and eat the food he likes much mor eoften than what you and the DC like?

@TheLoyalMintGuide Your post exhibits a pattern that's quite common on MN, I've noticed:

"I am really confused about my relationship with dh. I really care about him, I think he can be so kind and patient, and funny. He’s intelligent and perceptive, and genuine. He does, i think, suffer from depression. He gets so down -"

OK - he sounds like a good man with a bit of depression. But then -

"He can be really grumpy and snappy. In fact i think he probably gets annoyed with me over something trivial at least once a day. I find I am often nervous around him. At work I see his best side, but sometimes at home he can be really hard work.
other times he can be lovely and good fun and I feel maybe I am overreacting. He has on occasion really shouted at me which I hate -"

Oh dear. In the privacy of your own home, in the confines of your relationship, he's treating you badly.

It's not right to be treated badly, and it doesn't matter how kind and patient he can be. It sounds like there's a problem (or you wouldn't be here, I suppose) and you need to get to the bottom of it. I'm sorry I don't have anything more helpful to say, but I just wanted to draw your attention to this contrast. Good luck.

I feel we need to place banners all over public spaces which say:

”Of course abusers are kind, considerate and happy SOME of the time, if they were abusive ALL of the time, they’d never get a partner in the first place.”

An abuser can be an abuser but also be a good brother, for example. Just as a rapist can rape and still take care of his mother/friend/colleague. They are not mutually exclusive.

A good deed or day doesn’t outweigh the eggshells you walk on the rest of the time.

The sooner you leave, the happier you’ll be.

Thank you everyone. I am so confused. I feel so sad right now, he can be so dismissive and just doesn’t seem to ‘get it’ when I explain how I feel sometimes. I know I can be over sensitive.

I don’t know what to say to him this evening. He’s impossible to argue with. it’s really difficult to explain.

the main thing is that I feel I would be letting everyone down if I did actually leave. His parents would be so upset. I can’t tell my mum she hasn’t got much longer left to live. And I can’t tell a friend because then that friend wouldn’t like him. And for obvious reasons can’t speak to a work colleague about it.

You aren't letting anyone down. It is your dh's abusive behaviour that has led to you considering ending the marriage.

i know that’s true @Motnight - and my mum did actually say that to me a few months ago when I opened up to her. I don’t think she really wants to talk about it anymore though.

the thing I just can’t get my head around is that I do know he loves me. I do know that if I left he would be really upset. And I do care for him a lot, I don’t want him to be sad and upset. And how does that work - how can you be abusive to somebody you love? That doesn’t make sense to me.

Of course he'd be upset if you left. He'd be losing control of you and your life and his life would be less comfortable.

The thing is that if he loved you, he wouldn't do this. DH loves me. Sometimes he does things that upset and hurt me. And when that happens, he apologises and tries really hard not to do them again. He doesn't blame me for them. He doesn't keep doing them. He just stops doing them.

And i do the same for him.

@TheLoyalMintGuide "And I can’t tell a friend because then that friend wouldn’t like him."

Wow, that's really interesting. This thread is about you, not me, but that sentence reminded me of something. My wife had an affair about 15 years ago (it was horrible, but that's not what we're here for.) My wife had always got on really well with my closest friend, whom I'd known since childhood. Because I didn't want to spoil their friendship, I decided not to tell him about my wife's affair - just like you're keeping things from a friend in your situation.

Eventually, after over six years, I couldn't hold onto it any longer, and told him. He was very sympathetic, of course. His relationship with my wife is still good (we're still together) and there's no awkwardness.

My point is, not telling him just gave me an extra burden to carry. For over six years, I kept my sadness from him, which I'm sure he would not have wanted.

You should share your situation with a trusted friend in real life. The possibility of this changing your friend's attitude towards your husband should not stop you talking to them.

Op, I think the first poster nailed it. You have to be brave and talk to him, explain to him that you are at the end of your tether and you can't live your life treading on egg shells, you can't live with your guts in a twist waiting for him to come home because your scared of his mood. Choose a time that if he starts shouting you can put the kids coats on and immediatly leave the house and go for a walk or take them to a cafe for tea, until he calms down and can talk to you calmly. If that seems too scary you could write him a letter to read when your not there. If he can't do this I think you have your answer.
I was in the same situation, told him he needed to see a doctor or get anger management; he did, turned out he was bi-polar, sadly he wouldn't take his medication and the relationship did eventually break down, but I know I tried.

I don't think the work thing is too much of a problem, you can agree to have a cuppa together each evening and he can de stress about his working day and then put work to bed, but I think that's not the main issue.

He is using displays of anger to control you. Notice how he doesn't do this to anyone at work, which indicates he is more than capable of speaking well.

I'd covertly record him going off on one. Then, choose a neutral, public place. Play him the recording and tell him you won't accept this sort of thing anymore and he either changes his ways starting immediately it the relationship is over.

He probably won't change, but you need to be really firm and show him you mean it. That means being prepared to leave if necessary

Thanks for all of your help everyone. The other morning we had an awful argument. He was stressed about work and then I asked him to help wirh something and he had a complete meltdown, crying, sobbing and then suddenly turning and really snapping and swearing at me, really loudly. Luckily the dc didn’t hear.
I spoke to his mum and his brother. I told his mum everything. Amazingly they weren’t angry at me and also were not surprised. I know this sounds strange but I feel a bit of a weight off my shoulders. I’m not pretending anymore. I also spoke to my mum and dad. I told afterwards that I was really struggling, and something needed to change. My ideal scenario is that he gets better and becomes the person he is 85-90% of the time and this horrible alter ego/switch he has when he is stressed disappears - if he seeks treatment/help etc. however I am mentally preparing myself that I might have to deal with what is rather than what could be.
his brother was really kind and understanding and said he had always felt he had to walk on egg shells around him.
I was so worried everyone would feel I was letting everyone down.
thank you for the advice everyone.

@TheLoyalMintGuide, well done for talking to your parents and your in-laws. That took courage and it’s a big step towards making him acknowledge the awful way he’s treating you.

The thing I don’t understand - I keep going around in circles - is how it all fits together.

1. I don’t doubt that he loves me. I don’t think he would ever cheat on me and I can’t imagine him even flirting with someone else even though he is good looking.
2. he can be so kind most of the time. Very supportive. Loving. Very generous at birthdays etc. I don’t think that kindness isn’t genuine. I think he genuinely is being kind.
3. but then there are these moments (and they come and go, sometimes they can be a few weeks apart, sometimes can be months apart) when he absolutely loses it wirh me - shouts at me so loudly and has this horrible aggressive look on his face. A few times, not recently, when we’ve had a horrible argument (and I’m not an argumentative person) he’s driven wirh me and the dc in a really scary manner.

sometimes I feel he kind of begrudges me. Whenever I am doing something I am enjoying, or relaxing, he seems to get a bit annoyed. Like if I’m reading something on my phone while there are dishes to clear away etc. but the thing is, it’s not like I’m lazy around the house. I do lots of domestic chores (he does as well, he’s very tidy).

it just doesn’t make sense to me. How can I leave when the man he can be would be absolutely devastated?

You say he loves you OP but to be honest he doesn't sound happy in the relationship. Perhaps you should tell him that you've thought about divorce and see his reaction. Obviously only do this if you think it's safe to do so.

What speaks loud and clear here is that neither his mother nor his brother showed any real surprise about this.

Which says to me that he isn't depressed or stressed out about work. He simply has an aggressive angry streak in him that comes out every so often. His brother has said he feels like he has to walk on eggshells around him. That is so telling.

It's not you. It's him. He has this nasty side to his character and he lets you have the full brunt of it. I bet he's never shown that side of him at work.

He's showing you who he is, maybe he's sometimes nice but he's also aggressive and angry. Don't hang around for the times he's nice, its not enough. There are men who are always kind, not just occasionally and you deserve one of them

Really sorry to hear you are dealing with this OP. I could have written your post almost word for word. I'm still trying to navigate my own situation so I'm not best placed to give you advice but I would say 1) reconsider talking to a friend 2) scary/erratic driving is abusive and that really crosses a line 3) do stuff to build up your self worth and that brings you fulfillment eg a hobby or developing your career or even just maintaining good friendships. In times like this you sort of need to be your own hero.
In my situation, I had asked my husband a few years ago outright if he would consider a separation as he was clearly unhappy and he wouldn't hear of it, said he loved me and he would never give up on the marriage.
He can be lovely and supportive at times too but the blow-ups can be absolutely devastating. Seeing his face cloud over and hearing the person who had vowed to love and cherish me say stuff like "I'm sick of your shit" and "shut up, you're provoking me now" when a small argument has escalated is absolutely chilling to me. I don't know how we got here. He's a good person. I think I'm a good person?
Outside of my home people know me as a feminist and a bubbly and effervescent character. They would be horrified if they saw how my DH speaks to me at home.

will he do an anger management course? Ask him.

You have to walk on eggshells around him to not set him off. You're in an abusive marriage. Her verbally abuses you. He physically abuses you and your children when he's driving dangerously. You want your kids to end up in a PICU from a crash he caused by deliberately driving dangerously to frighten you?

Leave. He's not going to change and it's likely to escalate. His family knows.

thanks for all your advice everyone.
i realise how he must sound in my posts. But he does have good qualities. I think in my mind I’ve been thinking that there are two versions of him and I need to help him always be the nice/‘normal’ version - one that isn’t perfect of course but who doesn’t suddenly shout and look so aggressive.

I feel so much better for talking to his parents. His mum said something that has really shaken me the other day. I was chatting to her a bit about it further, and she said ‘I’m sure I’ve said this to you before but, and I say this only partly jokingly, I’m not sure how you manage to live with him’ or words to that effect - something like that.

I keep on replaying that in my mind. I haven’t spoken to ANYONE about it for our whole marriage, apart from a little bit (but not the whole story) to my parents. And for her to turn around and say that - it’s kind of liberating. It also makes me sad. I should have spoken to someone sooner.

he’s being really nice right now. I’m so confused. It makes me feel I am imagining it.

Haven’t read the whole thread @TheLoyalMintGuide- but your first post was enough.

Listen to your gut. This is a man who can be lovely and charming when he wants/needs to be - but then allows himself to let out his anger and disrespect on you. He knows what he’s doing.

I am - finally - on the other side. It’s taken many years. I went through all the same doubts as you. But he took his moods out on me and oldest DC. It wore me down more and more as the years went on. I feel so much better, lighter, now I’m out.

Read Patricia Evans and Lundy Bancroft - they have some really helpful takes.

Trust how you feel x

The only acceptable level of abuse in a relationship is none.

His mother’s words are also presceint.

Please contact Women’s Aid; they also have an online chat facility. He would not dare to speak to his work colleagues like he does to you. He is treating you and in turn your kids with contempt and he knows full well what he is doing. Such men hate women, all of them.

He has a problem with anger, your anger when you call him out on his behaviour.
Anger management courses are also no answer to domestic abuse which is what you are describing.

He can indeed be nice sometimes but what he has and continues to show you here is the nice/nasty cycle of abuse which is a continuous one. Do not further do your bit here to teach your children such damaging lessons about relationships.

First off, OP, sending you a huge hug. I’m sorry you feel so lonely at the moment. You’ve been carrying a lot and it’s no wonder you’re feeling confused.

I think your DH family’s reaction to you opening up is quite telling. To me that says that this behaviour is something quite normal for him - that it’s not just you, and it’s something that has either been a pattern before you knew/lived together, or has emerged over time that all have been affected by in some way.

what I mean by this is that, there is no “normal” for you to go back to with him. He has shown his real self to multiple people, all who have been affected by it in differing degrees.

I think it would be really worthwhile for you to imagine what life would feel like without him. I came from an emotionally abusive relationship where I was always always second guessing how he would respond or what mood I would find him in. It was absolutely exhausting, sucked all joy from my life and relationship, and ultimately I realised (thankfully COVID lockdown separated us to different continents!) that without him there was no constant stress, which I had become so used to.

i hope you find the courage to really centre your needs in this, and articulate how you want to feel in this relationship, what you expect from your partner. I mean this kindly, but you are at greater risk of letting people (your kids!) down by not putting your own needs forward and continuing on this path, than if you were to say, actually, this isn’t how I want to live and having a thriving and joyful life.

take care and big hugs x