It's a sex and relationship one...

[AnotherTaleAsOldAsTime]

I've been with my partner for 5 years. We're both older (50s and early 60s). Both previously married and divorced 10+ years ago and have adult children.

In the early days, sex was great - as always.

He'd not long come out of a relationship when we got together, which is normally something I'd avoid but we knew each other well as friends previously and there didn't seem to be any issues re that.

My relationship background has been a bit rocky and less positive than his so I'm aware I was carrying some 'baggage' in that I don't really feel I know how to have a 'proper relationship' or to how to be in a relationship and struggle with confidence and self esteem on occasion.

I felt that, in the first couple of years, he overshared a bit about finding other women attractive. But it was something that had been comfortably shared in his previous relationship on both sides. They'd both laugh about it and he didn't realise it would be an issue for me.

In my experience, it's always been done as a way of being indirectly critical of me - unfavourable comparisons; why can't you be more like X? type thing. He's never said anything like that per se just occasional comments that such and such is really pretty, beautiful, attractive, sexy, looks good in that but in quite a neutral.way.

We spoke about it and he said he didn't realise. He apologised and hasn't done it since. He had thought I was so secure in knowing how he felt about me that I wouldn't be bothered and would laugh/share my own thoughts on men etc. As that's how it had been in his previous relationship. He didn't realise it would make.me doubt his attraction towards or feelings for me. It did. I felt he was letting me know I wasn't quite good enough. He denies this strongly.

Now we are here. I just feel so unattractive akd undesirable. There have been a couple of light hearted throwaway comments made since that I've asked him about and be just answers that he doesn't know what he meant or he doesn't know why he said it. The truth is obviously he meant what he said, and he said it because it's true. He denies that of course.

Sex has dwindled to pretty much nothing. We last had sex in August and it was about once monthly for about a year before that. I've just switched off.

Before the August sex, we went away on holiday and he initiated sex. We'd not had sex for about a month but he lost his erection and we just stopped. We did have sex a fortnight later but he didn't finish. He told me he had but we don't use condoms (he's had a vasectomy) so it's pretty obvious.

When we first started seeing each other, I was tentatively hopeful that we'd have the sex life I've always wanted but never had. But with the comments, the loss of erections and the lies about finishing, I've ended up just feeling really unattractive and like he can't be honest with me so I don't know what I'm supposed to trust.

I was ruminating on it a lot and the only way I could manage that was to accept that he just doesn't find me attractive. It's worked but I also don't want to have sex with someone who doesn't find me attractive. So I've just switched off.

I often think about opening up a conversation with him about it with a view to improving things because, in every other way, things are great. But I don't see the point when I don't feel he is going to be honest with me about it.

I know what he will say. I've heard it before. I just don't believe a word of it. It's just become the elephant in the room now and I don't know what to do.

I know the obvious answer is to end it but I don't really want to. Other than this, we have a good life together. I'm aware he might end it but that's not immediate. He says he loves me and I love him but sex has become such a loaded issue. And I've got nothing new to say.

I don't really know what I'm asking or what I want. Thoughts, experience, suggestions? Thanks

He's very honest about everything else. And I trust him on everything else but this lying around sex and how he feels just seems to be a thing. Maybe something he's learnt in previous relationships? I don't know.

Have you posted about this before, op? It sounds very familiar

So What if she has? Move on if you dont want to be helpfull!

Bastards been negging you basically. He’s eroded your confidence, it’s not a great life if you feel shit.

Personally I can't think of one positive reason why a man needs to share his thoughts on how attractive, beautiful, sexy or whatever he finds another woman with his partner.

Perhaps he did do this in other relationships. Perhaps him doing so was one of the reasons for those relationships breaking down.

I would regard this behaviour as negging.

And it has affected your self esteem and confidence.

I don't see the point in continuing a relationship which has such a negative effect on you.

The comparison comments are awful and not something I could tolerate to be honest. Not even just from a confidence perspective, it just sounds vile to view everyone in that way and pass comment.

At your partners age it might not be attraction related if he’s struggling to maintain an erection. There isn’t really a way forward other than to ask him if there’s an issue?

It depends on if you want to continue the relationship really.

If it's the poster I'm thinking of they were given a huge amount of advice on their previous thread; no point in repeating it all if they have decided it's not helpful.

And get over yourself telling other people to move on - other people's decisions to post are none of your business

Him not being able to maintain an erection will likely be nothing to do with you OP. Has he always had this issue?

You said you were tentatively hopeful at the start, was sex ever any good?

*ahh, overlooked your comment when you said it was great to begin with. It might just be performance wise it's on the downhill for him.

That’s negging.
You’ll never be able to get over it, his comments left a big hole in your confidence, trust and respect.
Don’t care if that’s what he used to do with his ex, you don’t pull that shit, grow up.
I’d leave.

Looking at it from his pov, you seemed fine with him commenting in a neutral way (your description) for a couple of years. You eventually admitted it upset you, he apologised and stopped doing it, apart from a couple of lighthearted throwaway comments (your words) since which he again apologised for. You’ve ruminated (never a good thing!) and decided he finds you unattractive and anything he says you have already decided not to believe.

Perhaps the sex in August was curtailed because he could see you weren’t enjoying it so he stopped.

The problem seems to be that you have ‘switched off’ from sex (your words) but still want him to have sexual feelings towards you. How is he supposed to do that if he gets nothing from you?

ETA: I know that on MN it is always the man’s fault for being a total bastard and this will be an unpopular take on it.

ETA again: I think you need to be honest with him and finish the relationship.

Thanks. The responses were much as I expected.

It's not the reason for his previous relationship breaking down. They just grew apart. She didn't want it to end.

He hasn't made the comparisons that was previous relationships. He's just made 'throwaway' observations but not directly linked to me.

I agree that there are no positive reasons for doing so but a lot of posters on MN say that they often joke and tease each other when their celebrity crush is on TV. It seems to be acceptable to a lot of people.

I know that the perchance issues are likely to be age related but combined with everything else, well, I can't be sure. Plus I hear what is 'unsaid' by him too which previous partners have said.

In every other way, the relationship is so good. If the issue of sex is removed, the relationship itself is really good. He hasn't made any comments about other women in nearly 3 years but I'm very aware now that he thinks it. Of course, I know he does. Everyone finds other people attractive.

I don't feel comfortable dressing nicely or making an effort anymore. One of my younger colleagues complimented me the other day on how I looked and I just felt really awkward and uncomfortable 😕

I don't really know what he thought would happen but I doubt it was this

I agree with this.

And how would you feel if you didn't feel aroused or didn't orgasm, and your partner took it that it meant you didn't fancy them at all, ever again?

Sounds like your self esteem has been absolutely tanked by this man.

What are the "throwaway comments" he's making? Because I'd be inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt that he genuinely didn't realise this would hurt you (I'm in one of those relationships where I tease my husband mercilessly for his celebrity crushes and vice versa so I kind of get it) especially since you said he's stopped the behaviour when you asked him to... Except for these throwaway comments.

Thanks for the perspective.

For clarity, I did make it clear I wasn't happy but I didn't explain the impact for the first couple of years. Really because it probably only happened half a dozen times. It wasn't constant.

The biggest issue cake from the couple of things he said after we'd spoken. So he lade those comments knowing how it made.me feel.

I don't really want him to have sexual feelings for me. Not if we can't discuss sex openly. Besides, being turned on and then having sex with someone isn't quite the same as having sexual feelings for them.

I initiated the sex in August and I was enjoying it. It wasn't me who wasn't enjoying it.

One of them was that he'd never thought about me 'in that way' despite previously telling me that he'd had 'a crush' on me for a good while before we got together. It's not that I can't cope with the thought he hasn't always been attracted to me but that the two statements contradict each other so one of them is untrue.

I can't remember the context of the conversation now but he said afterwards it wasn't true and he doesn't think it so he doesn't know why he said it.

It's all just pathetic really isn't it.

Why was he telling you about all the women he finds attractive??
I think its perfectly ok to find people attractive, but i think if my partner was telling me about it a lot, id be thinking that he is really evaluating women on their appearance constantly. I would think it was creepy and shallow, and yes, i think it would probably erode my confidence to think hes always comparing women on the basis of their appearance. I think its misogynistic too.
My dad constantly judges women on their appearances. I think its horrible. I ended up with an eating disorder!
Then to put it back on you, as if youve somehow failed at being secure and confident!!

Men like that can fuck off imo. We dont need reminding all the time that we are just ornamental.

OP you need to leave this man.

He is a walking red flag and a headworker.

Endlessly trying to analyse a git is really bad for you. I know, I tried for 4.5 years to try and work out what was happening with an ex and then one day a mate said to me that she suspected that if I knew the actual truth of what was going in in his life and what his motivations were, I would turn on my heel and run.

It lodged in my head as I knew she was right. I was just seeing what he wanted me to see. Once I accepted this, I turned on my heel and ran.

It took me a long time to recalibrate my own emotions and self esteem but I can spot them a mile off now.

It is hard to get the nuances of a relationship from an anonymous post and it is not always clear where the blame lies when things go wrong as we are only getting one side of the story.
There does seem to be an awful lot of overthinking and decisions made about his intentions on your part OP, along with a reluctance to actually want to sort it out with him and leaving him second guessing what will or won’t upset you.

I know it is a MN cliche, but would counselling of some sort help? Not necessarily couples counselling but maybe some that would help you sort through what went on in previous relationships.

I think thats how it's made me feel tbh.

Even though he no longer says anything at all, I know he is looking at women and evaluating them on looks.

I felt very vulnerable. Part of me reframing how I see it (just accepting I'm not attractive to him) stops me feeling like he's comparing me to other women and wondering how he sees me because I have already accepted it.

It wasn't 'creepy' because he also comments on men in a similar way - he's got great hair, he's a handsome man, he's got a great physique.

As for why, I have no idea.

Agreed. OP, you've said a couple of times that his apparently contradictory statements mean that only one version can be true. That's very black and white thinking on your part. Can you accept that humans can (and often do) hold more than one opinion at different points? You also seem to try to fill in what hasn't been said - in my experience that never ends well. As people we tend to default to negatives, especially when we're already feeling undervalued. Having said that, I completely understand first-hand how undermining it feels, hearing your partner praise another woman. I'm in the 'try some counselling' camp with this, before it becomes irretrievable.

I completely agree with the one sidedness of threads.

He tells me he loves me. He holds my hand and he is generally affectionate.

All I have in my head is, "but..."

I accept that I have an input into this, and it's not all him. After all, if I was someone who wasn't bothered by it, it wouldn't have become a thing.

When I've asked him why he has said something, he's always said he doesn't know, he doesn't rember saying it, it's not what he thinks so he doesn't know why he would have said it.

It's easy to say I'm reluctant to talk with him about it but he has always said the same things so it feels pointless. He'll say the same again, I'll say that it doesn't make sense he'd say something he doesn't mean.

He'll say but I tell you I love you and you're beautiful and I'll say it rings very hollow when he's made it clear what/who he finds attractive and it isn't me.

He'll ask why I'm focusing on those things and not all the good things. I'll say that those things hold as much, if not more weight, and I shouldn't be having to decide what things he's said are true or not. Why did he say those things in the first place. He's say he doesn't know and he doesn't remember saying them. He doesn't think them so why would he say it?

It just feels pointless.

If he loved me, he wouldn't have said anything. Would he?

For me, I don’t care if my partner talks about a celebrity being attractive. I’d do the same back. It would be very different if he started saying it about people who are actually in our lives. But it sounds like he pretty much stopped commenting when you asked him to, and it was normal to him and his relationships beforehand, so I’d let it go.

But yes, you do need a proper conversation regarding the lack of sex and how you both feel. And to discuss if he needs anything to help him. You’re both grown adults and should be able to have this conversation and work the problems.

Of course I can accept that people can hold different viewpoints at the same time.

But

'I had a crush on you for a while before we got together but didn't think you'd be interested"

and

"I've never felt that way about you/seen you in a romantic/sexual way"

are pretty usually exclusive.

Call him out in real time OP. He says something that hurts you, you say "Can I ask what you mean?" No space then for 'forgetting' what he's said. It also works because it puts the focus back on his comment, rather than your reaction. The trick is doing it at the time, (or very shortly after, when you realise how you feel), but the more aware you become the easier it gets.

There was one comment about a mutual friend being sexy.

But nothing otherwise.

I had been rebuilding my confidence and self esteem when we got together. I felt confident in myself and that I could trust how he said he saw/felt about me. It felt so freeing to just 'be' instead of worrying and feeling self conscious.

But I ended up just feeling like an idiot for believing it and foolish for allowing myself to feel attractive and 'good enough'.