It's a sex and relationship one...

[AnotherTaleAsOldAsTime]

I've been with my partner for 5 years. We're both older (50s and early 60s). Both previously married and divorced 10+ years ago and have adult children.

In the early days, sex was great - as always.

He'd not long come out of a relationship when we got together, which is normally something I'd avoid but we knew each other well as friends previously and there didn't seem to be any issues re that.

My relationship background has been a bit rocky and less positive than his so I'm aware I was carrying some 'baggage' in that I don't really feel I know how to have a 'proper relationship' or to how to be in a relationship and struggle with confidence and self esteem on occasion.

I felt that, in the first couple of years, he overshared a bit about finding other women attractive. But it was something that had been comfortably shared in his previous relationship on both sides. They'd both laugh about it and he didn't realise it would be an issue for me.

In my experience, it's always been done as a way of being indirectly critical of me - unfavourable comparisons; why can't you be more like X? type thing. He's never said anything like that per se just occasional comments that such and such is really pretty, beautiful, attractive, sexy, looks good in that but in quite a neutral.way.

We spoke about it and he said he didn't realise. He apologised and hasn't done it since. He had thought I was so secure in knowing how he felt about me that I wouldn't be bothered and would laugh/share my own thoughts on men etc. As that's how it had been in his previous relationship. He didn't realise it would make.me doubt his attraction towards or feelings for me. It did. I felt he was letting me know I wasn't quite good enough. He denies this strongly.

Now we are here. I just feel so unattractive akd undesirable. There have been a couple of light hearted throwaway comments made since that I've asked him about and be just answers that he doesn't know what he meant or he doesn't know why he said it. The truth is obviously he meant what he said, and he said it because it's true. He denies that of course.

Sex has dwindled to pretty much nothing. We last had sex in August and it was about once monthly for about a year before that. I've just switched off.

Before the August sex, we went away on holiday and he initiated sex. We'd not had sex for about a month but he lost his erection and we just stopped. We did have sex a fortnight later but he didn't finish. He told me he had but we don't use condoms (he's had a vasectomy) so it's pretty obvious.

When we first started seeing each other, I was tentatively hopeful that we'd have the sex life I've always wanted but never had. But with the comments, the loss of erections and the lies about finishing, I've ended up just feeling really unattractive and like he can't be honest with me so I don't know what I'm supposed to trust.

I was ruminating on it a lot and the only way I could manage that was to accept that he just doesn't find me attractive. It's worked but I also don't want to have sex with someone who doesn't find me attractive. So I've just switched off.

I often think about opening up a conversation with him about it with a view to improving things because, in every other way, things are great. But I don't see the point when I don't feel he is going to be honest with me about it.

I know what he will say. I've heard it before. I just don't believe a word of it. It's just become the elephant in the room now and I don't know what to do.

I know the obvious answer is to end it but I don't really want to. Other than this, we have a good life together. I'm aware he might end it but that's not immediate. He says he loves me and I love him but sex has become such a loaded issue. And I've got nothing new to say.

I don't really know what I'm asking or what I want. Thoughts, experience, suggestions? Thanks

He doesn't do it anymore so there's nothing to address in the moment but you're right and I kicked myself many times for not saying something there and then.

You say your relationship is great in every other way, but you do not describe a great relationship, it sounds miserable and joyless.

You have no confidence, low self-esteem, think he is always eyeing up other women, you haven't had sex since the summer and it is the elephant in the room.

You were more confident when you met, than you are now?

You ever think you'd be happier without this?

Well, no, I haven't detailed the good bits because that's not what I'm asking about.

I can obviously only provide a small snapshot of the relationship so it makes sense to focus on the part I'm asking about. I don't need to explain or justify the rest of it.

I wouldn't be in the relationship if there were no positives.

Your other points are valid though. I don't know if I'd be happier. Overall, no, I don't think I would. There's a lot more to the whole relationship than just whether he fancies me enough or not.

I think part of me just feels sad that, after a lifetime of mediocre/crap relationships this one had so much potential to.be good, positive and happy. It should have been so easy and so simple but it's not.

I'm too old to try again and it would just have been nice to have had one relationship where I actually believed what I was being told.

So, he infrequently commented on other people’s attractiveness and you asked him not to and he stopped. Now, you ‘know’ he’s thinking about other people’s attractiveness and that’s affecting your own self esteem and you have pulled back from having sex with him, but the non sex is still his fault in your opinion?

I get that you want us to say it’s all his fault but is it? You seem to presume what he is ‘thinking’ and judge both him and yourself on that. In an otherwise good relationship I would definitely recommend counselling, but maybe solo counselling too as I don’t think you are being fair to yourself currently

I think you need some help to unpick this as you're sabotaging things and there'll be a reason you're doing this. Go see someone.

He's entitled to his thoughts, likes and dislikes.

If he steps over a line, he can get told why that's unacceptable but he's not a mindreader.

Once you have to step on eggshells around someone, life becomes too difficult.

I don't want anyone to say it's his fault.

I wanted to hear what other people's take on it was to help understand and work out my own thoughts and feelings. To see to what extent it was possible to resolve it. Or not. Maybe to get some practical advice to approach it.

So, let's summarise a couple things:

• He made 'half a dozen' comments in the space of a couple years, so let's say a throwaway comment every 3-4 months. Has he ever directly compared you in these comments?

• He stopped doing it when you asked which is over 3 years ago now.

• He also makes comments about men's appearance so he generally observes all people's appearances.

• He has had some ED which you think is due to his lack of attraction to you but he is in his sixties, that is fairly normal.

• You say that you know he is finding other women attractive even if he isn't saying anything but then you also everyone finds other people attractive. If its a general human thing, why is he being blamed for this?

I'm clearly not the right audience but I'm not sure with all the context above, he's been negging. I jokingly tell my DH if an actor or celebrity is attractive or even people we know. They are often funny, throwaway comments, just like observing some other visible detail, that is often quickly forgotten. No one cares and it isn't a comparison of my DH to these men.

You are also very black and white in your thinking with little nuance. Sometimes, people just say things absent-mindedly...not every comment or action is deep or needs to be analysed or is centered around how someone feels about you.

Either communicate clearly that this isn't working and go to couples therapy or leave. You are going to continue to withdraw emotionally, resentment will build and it will all end badly anyway.

Personally, I think your overthinking has made this into a bigger, much worse thing than it is. I would also suggest personal therapy as your self-esteem is clearly an issue and you are sabotaging this relationship.

Yeah I wouldn’t like the comments about a mutual friend. However if it was one time and previously normal to him, and he’s stopped since you’ve asked him to, I’d be okay with it. If it continued I absolutely wouldn’t.

But I feel like this may have more to do with your confidence in yourself than anything to do with him. Do you feel you can talk to him about it? It should be something you can discuss and work through together, but you may need some form of therapy to build the confidence in yourself.

Thank you.

I think I've always felt that no one else could see my worth even when I could. And we need to see our own worth but, in a relationship, the other person should be able to see it too?

To begin with, I believed he did but then I stopped believing that.

So, let's summarise a couple things:

• He made 'half a dozen' comments in the space of a couple years, so let's say a throwaway comment every 3-4 months. Has he ever directly compared you in these comments? No. But he has made observations about specific qualities that I don't possess

• He stopped doing it when you asked which is over 3 years ago now. Yes

• He also makes comments about men's appearance so he generally observes all people's appearances. Yes

• He has had some ED which you think is due to his lack of attraction to you but he is in his sixties, that is fairly normal. Yes, and I do know this but I feel.so unattractive and undesirable now that isn't be sire it isn't part of it

• You say that you know he is finding other women attractive even if he isn't saying anything but then you also everyone finds other people attractive. If its a general human thing, why is he being blamed for this? I don't know. It just makes me feel unattractive akdnthat I have nothing to offer

I'm clearly not the right audience but I'm not sure with all the context above, he's been negging.

I jokingly tell my DH if an actor or celebrity is attractive or even people we know. They are often funny, throwaway comments, just like observing some other visible detail, that is often quickly forgotten. No one cares and it isn't a comparison of my DH to these men. That's what he says

You are also very black and white in your thinking with little nuance. Sometimes, people just say things absent-mindedly...not every comment or action is deep or needs to be analysed or is centered around how someone feels about you. That's alsp what he says. And I understand it but even when I can logically understand it, I can't help howitzer makes me feel

Either communicate clearly that this isn't working and go to couples therapy or leave. You are going to continue to withdraw emotionally, resentment will build and it will all end badly anyway. I agree but I don't knpw how to when every conversation always goes the same way. He just denies it and shuts it down so I've nothing to replace it with

Personally, I think your overthinking has made this into a bigger, much worse thing than it is. I would also suggest personal therapy as your self-esteem is clearly an issue and you are sabotaging this relationship. I agree with this but I don't know whether I can change it and that's part of the issue. Or whether I'd just be gaslighting myself

Thank you for your thoughts

I completely agree with this to be honest. I’m not sure this man has actually done anything wrong, but rather that OP is seeing things that aren’t there and has a lot of work to do on herself before being capable of having a healthy relationship.

OP if you can’t love yourself then you will never be able to believe anybody else can love you in a healthy way because how could they, when you can’t?

OP you're going to destroy this relationship due to your insecurities. People who take everything personally and think that everything is about them or because of them are do difficult to deal with.
Having ED or struggling to finish are normal in older men. It has nothing to do with you.
He shouldn't have lied about finishing but he probably did that because he was insecure about it or he didn't want you to take it personally (which you probably would).
Low libido is not that uncommon in men and again it could have nothing to do with your attractiveness.
Take off the pressure to perform as that would only make things worse. Just enjoy being intimate together and find other ways to pleasure each other besides intercourse.
It does sound like this man cares about you and listens to your feedback so it's worth to work on the relationship and having open communication is a start.

Take off the pressure to perform as that would only make things worse. Just enjoy being intimate together and find other ways to pleasure each other besides intercourse.

But I don't want to do any of that with someone who doesn't find me attractive. Inercourse is the easy part.

I’d seek couples counselling OP. Your self esteem is very low. To an extent you seem to be self-sabotaging.

Did you read my whole response? Or did you just pick one sentence to insist on the theory that its all about you and he doesn't find you attractive? You have tunnel vision OP.

It’s hard to be sure and answer with true certainty when we don’t know either of you .
however , you sound as if you feel sad and lost .
loss of an erection and decline in sexual activity is not unusual for man in his 50s/60s . It does not mean he doesn’t find you attractive. He maybe feeling really rubbish about that and be worried . Or his libido may just be declining.
You are also conflating qualities he has noticed in other people (that you say you dont have ) as evidence that he doesn’t find you attractive . I think brunette men are attractive but that does not detract from the feelings I have for other people who don’t have brunette hair.
I think counselling for you would be really beneficial to help you your worth outside of your perceived view of what he thinks.

Either communicate clearly that this isn't working and go to couples therapy or leave. You are going to continue to withdraw emotionally, resentment will build and it will all end badly anyway. I agree but I don't knpw how to when every conversation always goes the same way. He just denies it and shuts it down so I've nothing to replace it with

It sounds like the only way you want the conversation to go is for him to say he finds you unattractive, and you are going to keep on at him until he does so out of frustration. And then what happens?

Plus I hear what is unsaid by him too which previous partners have said.

What does this mean?
You know that he's thinking unkind things about you that have been said to you by your previous partners?
Poor bloke doesn't stand a chance if your making up insults he isn't actually saying.

@AnotherTaleAsOldAsTime

I dont know that much about negging but other posters have covered that comprehensively.

What I did pick up from your posts (especially the one where you describe your reaction to a compliment from
a colleague) is that maybe you need to work on your own self esteem - regardless of what happens with this relationship.

You place a lot of weight or draw a lot of self worth from whether he finds you attractive, whether he finds other people attractive, you don't feel like you want to dress up anymore….why are you giving an external person so much weight as to how you feel about yourself?

You clearly do look good because you received an unsolicited compliment. Why did this make you feel awkward or uncomfortable?

If he cant maintain an erection - why do you internalise this as lack of attraction to you or that you are less attractive?

ED is a health condition and comes with aging - in my view it just needs a pragmatic conversation. It’s not about you - I view it just like how I think going off sex after childbirth or during menopause is not about men.

You come across as hyperfocused on this attractiveness point.

No one in the world can make you feel attractive if you don’t like yourself.

TLDR: I think you need to work on your own self esteem.

I hope you manage to work it out. If not for the relationship but for yourself.

Older couple,not quite as old. Occasional performance issues but we shrug them off and it is only occasionally. My dh will also comment on other women and men but I know he loves me, I know he fancies me, he pays me plenty of compliments. There's something about the way he looks at me that tells me just how much he desires me. The problem is your partner doesn't make you feel that way, it's slightly irrelevant if it's a him problem or a you problem to this relationship but for which ever reason it doesn't give you what you need. You need to end things and then get counseling to work things out and rebuild your self worth.

I think your rebuilt confidence before was a house of cards not bricks and the slightest response from him has knocked it down and then messed up the foundations even more

you need to work on yourself and build up your confidence using bricks and yourself and not others and then decide if you can be in a relationship

Thank you. That's a really good analogy and is probably quite accurate.

Hey OP 👋..
You sound so tormented ..
My take on your story is , your partner in the early days of your relationship use to tell you who he found attractive, & you didn’t take too much notice cause it was early days ..
Your self confidence is poor, & now further into the relationship it is really bothering you & impacting your relationship , am I right ??
Why on Earth people tell each other who they find attractive is beyond me , but I do know it’s a thing that some couples do 🤷🏻‍♀️..
You’ve said since you’ve told him how much it bothers you he stopped & that was 3 years ago..
Personally I think you guys need to sit down & talk, cause you don’t paint him out to be a bad guy either & you enjoy one another’s company & things are good ..
You need to talk & be completely honest with one another ..
Wouldn’t say it’s curtains for you two either ..
Best of luck x

There are so many things going on here. He can be insensitive. You are very sensitive about looks. He may have ED or low testosterone. You can't communicate. Take action! He needs to go to the doctor and get checked out, or if he won't get him an at home T test. You both need therapy, someone who can be the bridge between you and open channels for honest talk. Therapy is amazing, don't wait too long.

From my perspective, it's your own lack of self esteem which is causing the issues here...probably due to your 'baggage', you're choosing to see his comments on the aesthetic qualities of other humans (male and female) and make it mean something about you.

It doesn't.

I love my partner and am confident that he finds me attractive. We can both comment that someone is a good looking person / well dressed / nice hair etc without taking it as a slight on the other.

To be clear, he never said X is attractive, why can't you wear your hair like hers? Or similar? So it doesn't seem like negging to me.

Gently, you need to talk to him about this before you split up. Do it with a therapist on your own or as a couple. Communication will make or break a relationship.