How do you cope with an elderly narcissist mother?

[Podstable]

Is anyone going though this? My mother is widowed, in her 80s. I try to do my best for her, help her with practical things, finances, visit regularly etc etc. she is incredibly demanding, leaves very abusive messages if I don’t pick up, makes personal attacks and is very nasty.. always looking for problems and criticising and has absolutely no friends, won’t go anywhere and the only person she sees is me (and a cleaner who goes a couple of hours a week) I have made a big effort to try and get her known with social care and her GP, and ask for help in supporting her, but they say that unless she wants help they can’t do anything. I know I need to put boundaries in place (I’ve been told this a lot) but HOW? What is a boundary and what is reasonable? I’m so tired and depressed by it all.

Was she always liked this?

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Tell her straight that any incidence of abusive behaviour and you’ll ignore her for 48hrs. Stick to it. She’ll change or find another helper to abuse. I’m sorry OP.

If guilt and obligation didn't exist, what do you want to do for her?
Would you phone her once a week, see her once a month? Do whatever practical chore?

If, out of the kindness of your heart, you decided to help a stranger and they became rude or aggressive towards you, how would you react? Would you stay and continue to help; would you give them a warning to stop or you'd leave; or would you just leave?

Those are your boundaries. Implimenting them with a mother is very very difficult. But it is possible. Start with one and keep it consistent for weeks at least, then add on another. Do not give in once you've decided whst boundariy you're putting in place. For example, everytime she's rude or aggressive to you, say "mum, that's really rude, I don't want to be treated like this. Stop now, or I'll leave" and follow through

Thank you! I do need to hear this as guilt and obligation are totally the only drivers here. I suppose I don’t know what a reasonable boundary even is!! I guess that sounds mad, and you’re right about comparing it to the stranger, because of course not!! However, she constantly goes round looking for trouble and playing the victim. She was absolutely vile to me yesterday. I said I wasn’t prepared to have her talk to me like that, I am not her servant. She told me to get out of her sight. I calmly left. I then had a message from her GP retuning my call for an appointment I had tried to make to get mums leg looked at. I phone mum who shouted she would phone them back herself and slammed the phone down. Then today I get a message telling me (and I do mean telling - no please or anything - not even a hello) she wants me to take her to hospital for a scan next week. I haven’t returned her call, I would have to change a load of my plans, but I also feel guilty for not speaking to her…guilty if I don’t take her…. What about the long term relationship, will it get even worse…. I don’t want to be a bad person….. . My head is in a crazy place as I feel guilty if I don’t take her, but don’t want to have to go through all the attacks of how awful I am. Thank you, sorry about that vent!!! But thank you!! I appreciate you taking the time to listen ❤️

I used to try and help mine then she'd be horrible to me treating me like a child.
I walked out of her house many times then a few days later she'd call me as if nothing had happened.

I had years of it and she alienated me and my sister so much we said we wouldn't be involved in any caring duties for her.

I had to do it for my own wellbeing. Looking back she was always narcissistic and I didn't feel I owed her anything.

You hold the power here. She needs you to take her to hospital appointments. You don't need her for anything. So don't phone her to confirm you will take her.
She tells you to get out of her sight, you have done so. Let her then contact you with an apology. Let her stew.
Take her at her word, treat her like a child.... 'but you said you didn't want to see me?' 'you're obviously upset, once you've calmed down, give me a call' etc.
Remember she needs you more than you need her.

Tell her you are busy and can’t change plans and she needs to find another way to get to the hospital. DSis and I have done that with our mum. Do it. It’s the first step in taking back your autonomy.

You don't need to take her to hospital. Taxis exist, hospital transport exists. Your mum is capable of organising either one by herself
You can choose to. Or choose not to. Choosing not to doesn't make you a bad person. You have plans. The reasonable thing to do would to return her call telling her your decision, so that she has time to make her own arrangements. "Hi mum, I can't take you to the appointment, I have plans that can't be changed, gotta go now, bye"
She'll be angry and will say horrible things, so don't stick around to listen to her. Her ugliness doesn't change you, your worth, or your goodness.

Will your relationship get worse? She'll get angry with you as you start to protect yourself. There's a possibility that she'll adapt to the new status quo in time and things will be better for you. But it's not worth holding your breath for that. But what part of your relationship do you value now?

Realistically you need to balance your emotional wellbeing and your guilt. Finding the balance is hard

Thank you!! I guess I just have to be stronger 😊 I’ve got better at actually trying to put a boundary in place, now I need to work on the follow through I guess!! I don’t think she’s ever apologised in her life as she genuinely doesn’t think she’s ever wrong and everything is someone else’s fault (mine!!) I suppose it’s also trying not to feel guilty or selfish. I would do anything for anyone (including mum) but just a tiny bit of a recognition or at least not being verbally attacked and moaned at all the time would be good. I just don’t want the doctors or hospitals thinking I’m an awful person, she tells everyone I am. Am I uncaring if I stick to this boundary? The consequences of her being horrible and me not taking her to hospital when she needs to go seem a bit disproportionate 😩 this is where it always seems to go wrong. I know she’s vulnerable and she needs me, I don’t want anything bad to happen to her, but she is literally making my life hell, not for being old, just for being nasty all the time.

No apology, no trip to hospital. Could you send her a message saying that?

She’s using you for an emotional punching bag. Well done for walking out the other day, as someone with a narcissistic mother I know how hard that must have been, its such a big step to start saying no.

I would do as a previous poster said and say that you cannot take her to the hospital, don’t leave her wondering or relying on you, be clear with her, and say “I won’t be able to take you, here’s a number for a local taxi company.”

Also let her rely on you alot less, you should feel NO guilt, she is emotionally abusing you, and I doubt this is new behaviour. EVERY time she is horrid say “Mum thats a really horrible way to speak to me, I came over to help etc.” Then leave. Start getting things in place where it’s not you that needs to be there, supermarket shop deliveries, taxi’s etc. No one will blame you, some people have no one else due to their behaviour…. Let her chickens come home to roost.

Also give up on the apology or recognition from her, it’s not going to happen and I think you know that deep down. Accept her for who she is, and meet her there, she’s not going to change, just don’t let her emotionally beat you into submission… start unhooking those claws she’s got into you.

@Podstable don't feel guilty or obligated to her in any way. She doesn't deserve your help.

I felt so much better when I realised this.

Thank you!! It REALLY helps speaking to people who have been in the same situation ❤️ I don’t want to be a bad person, and don’t know what I do to deserve such hatred from her…..

Thank you for those reassuringly wise words!!

Just because she's said a thing is true doesn't make it so. If she says you're selfish, that's only her opinion and not an objective truth.

Who cares what the hospital or the doctor thinks - who are they to you? They'll not give a second thought to a lnunpleasant woman's complaints about a daughter they're not going to meet

Not taking her to the hospital is not disproportionate at all. In a normal healthy mother/daughter relationship it would be fine for the daughter to say that she wasn't able to take her mum if she had plans and the mum would make other arrangements. If you don't take her, she will still be able to go to her appointment. Saying no isn't going to harm her or kill her.

Lastly, she's never going to apologise to you or show you gratitude. Never. Morn the idea of a mum you don't have and protect yourself from the one you do have.

Yes, she’s just more “distilled”

You need to protect your own mental health
Sending hugs, it's not an easy situation
Please walk away

If she cannot apologise then no lift to the hospital. Could you send her a message saying that in a slightly politer way?

You haven't done anything xxx

What do you do?

1. Give up hoping you can reason with her
2. stop trying to justify yourself all the time
3. see that it’s a dance you both play – she is horrible and you believe what she says and accept it
4. Find other ways to see yourself correctly (not in the way that has been portrayed to you - probably since the day you were born)
5. Understand that whether you take her to the hospital or whether you don’t, she will still say horrible things about you behind your back. you literally are going to have to accept that.
6. Stop trying to put right your reputation. You have to just let that one go. The Earth isn’t going to suddenly stop spinning because she’s convinced people. Your life will go on.
7. teach yourself a few one liners. That’s all it will take. For example, when she is rude to you, you get up and quietly say “I won’t be spoken to like that. Contact me if you can be nice. I love you bye-bye.” with regard to the hospital appointment after she has told you to go far away from her, you are well within your rights too call and say “I won’t be taking you because I’ve got other things on and so you need to contact Hospital transport to get yourself a taxi. I can help you with finding the numbers for either of those if you would like otherwise I will leave you to it.” As soon as she gets nasty, which she will, you politely interrupt and say “I’m sorry I’m not going to be spoken to like that, I’m going to go. contact me when you can talk to me nicely.”

Really, honestly, you just have to learn a couple of one lines to keep whipping out and repeating. It won’t take long before she gets the idea. But do expect a lot of kickback to try and whip you back into line.

@Podstable don't know if you've had to put up with the "But she is your mother" or "You only get one mother" brigade.

I did and it made me wonder why she ever had children if she was just going to be horrible to us.

I hate Mothers day with all the gushing sentimentality about other people's wonderful mums. Some of us are not that fortunate through no fault of our own.

Stay strong 🥰

Good advice from previous posters. I had to go NC with my mother when she was in her 70s, after a lifetime of her narcissistic abuse.
Guess what, she didn’t blink an eyelid and organised her own life, hospital appointments and household care.
Live your life, preferably guilt free.

Does she say these vile things to you by text as well as in person/over the phone? If she does, then I strongly suggest you go and speak to her GP and show them the messages. I would also contact social services and show them too. Then you tell both SS and the GP that for the sake of your own mental health, you are no longer able to care for your mother or be responsible for her welfare, appointments etc.

There is only one way to deal with your abusive mother and this is it.