How do you cope with an elderly narcissist mother?

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Is anyone going though this? My mother is widowed, in her 80s. I try to do my best for her, help her with practical things, finances, visit regularly etc etc. she is incredibly demanding, leaves very abusive messages if I don’t pick up, makes personal attacks and is very nasty.. always looking for problems and criticising and has absolutely no friends, won’t go anywhere and the only person she sees is me (and a cleaner who goes a couple of hours a week) I have made a big effort to try and get her known with social care and her GP, and ask for help in supporting her, but they say that unless she wants help they can’t do anything. I know I need to put boundaries in place (I’ve been told this a lot) but HOW? What is a boundary and what is reasonable? I’m so tired and depressed by it all.

Unpopular opinon but older/elderly people are probably not in great headspaces alot of the time/ feeling vulnerable/ disconnected/ not using technology/ seeing the world change is probably unsettling to say the least.

Not an excuse exactly but I think being a human is weird itself and no one is really getting it right but as a younger person han her who can use a smart phone and in better health - you have the power.

It might be unrealistic to set boundaries with her but you can with yourself- not expecting too much, being mentally prepared for her attitude so it dosent hijack you and giving yourself treats/rewards/,investments.

like everyone else has said, you need to take back control, for your own well being.

my mil is like this & I’ve been nc for years but my dh couldn’t as the guilt overwhelmed him - until recently. She was so utterly horrific that he’s decided he can never speak to her again & he said it feels like a huge weights been lifted.

My mil is a narcissist but I can relate to what you’re going through.
Narcissists fundamentally believe that they are always right and everyone else is wrong. It wouldn’t occur for your mum to apologise for her behaviour as she literally thinks she’s right. She will never appreciate you as it’s her right to have you do the things you do for her.
My husband has been no contact with his mum and subsequently the whole family for 7 years now. He tried low contact but it didn’t work. I’m sure his whole family blame me for the situation but I honestly don’t care. He is so much better for being away from her and to be honest so are our children who were also being manipulated and gaslit.

its not easy, you’ve been conditioned to this behaviour your whole life.

I think you have to take emotion out of this, she is old, there is probably some level of dementia. Just ignore the bad things she says and do what you can to help, if you want to/can. You can't change things so don't try just recognise she's not going to get better. You can't take any of this personally.

That's easier said than done. It is hard enough supporting a frail elderly relative if they are a nice person. I don't think the OP should have to tolerate and ignore abuse just because it is coming from her mother. It IS personal.

I think the trouble is she is very calculating and manipulative with the things she says and does. I suppose it is a lifetime of conditioning that this dynamic still exists between us. She may well have some degree of dementia, but to be honest, she has always been like it, it’s not new. I do know it’s me that has to adjust and my attitude that has to change as she never will. Thank you for replying as it’s really good to be able to talk about it!

I feel for you, I’m in the same
situation. Tried to put boundaries in place and my mother just completely pushed back against it, even telling my husband how ridiculous she thought it was. You can’t challenge her behaviours as she then starts to cry and becomes the victim leaving you to then ‘comfort’ her.
I’m at a loss really as to how to manage things differently as to be honest ‘pandering’ to her makes for an easier life. I think a counsellor I spoke to called it the ‘fawn’ response which pretty much summed it up.
Good luck, you really do have my sympathies

I’ve had to go NC with my mum as she is a nasty venomous woman, just like her mum was. Has always been like it and quite frankly I’ve never felt so peaceful and settled. Unnecessary stress you don’t need to deal with.
Also, I work in a hospital and we can see family dynamics clear as day and often advise family to stay away when a patient is being awful to them, they are not obliged to visit daily or at all. Sometimes it helps if you have “permission” to step back and not to feel you must take the abuse whether it be from feeling guilty or obligated to.
Protect your peace and don’t accept being spoken to or treated poorly. Mother or not, walk away from it. She’ll soon learn that you won’t stay to be abused. Clearly defined boundaries and the knowledge you will not tolerate it will definitely help. May take time and get worse to begin with but stick with it. Good luck x

Hard going op we have it too. Gets worse in 80s. I cut back found I had enough mentally. All negative too. Think some people just easier to deal with! It is tiring though.

If recent change in behaviour then see a doctor to see if there is an organic reason for it. If not new or no cause found then:

1. low contact
2. grey rock

If 1) and 2) fail then no contact.

Being old isn’t an excuse to be abusive or mean.

I dealt with my mother, who is exactly like this, by moving to the other side of the planet when I was 25. I'd just been through a divorce, and instead of being a support, she'd driven me to attempt suicide. That was 32 years ago, and I've only been back to visit her twice in that time. Both visits were fucking awful, I wasted thousands of pounds to have her treat me like shit. It's not happening again.

My mother doesn't even have the excuse of being on her own - my younger brother (who I call the Teflon Man) has been living with her full time for the last few years. My mother, as well as being a narcissist, is also a raging misogynist, and as the only daughter I got the full brunt of her dreadful behaviour. My older brother has been extremely low contact with her for decades, and I'm low contact - I ring her on average once a month.

I rang her 3 weeks ago on her 84th birthday (I also sent her what she wanted as a gift, money which I could ill afford) and she was horrible, the worst she's been in a long while. I had been thinking about visiting again - luckily I hadn't told her - but it made me realise that it was about time I learnt from the previous two mistakes. I doubt I will see her again, and that is an idea I am now working to be comfortable with.

Have you ever told her how depressed or sad she makes you feel? Obviously she will probably become defensive and turn it back on you, but she might reflect. Re the hospital appointment, Google 'driving Miss Daisy'. They are a private taxi hospital service. Very caring and consistent. Don't feel as though you had to do everything. You can outsource some jobs. My mother is also a tricky character and the lack of friends means that whe is able to pull of those 'lonely' heart strings. Could she get in a living lodger that helps out for reduced rent? Are there any other relatives that can help out? I suspect that the lack of friends stems from a combination of laziness, a lack of confidence and entitlement that you should be her friend. Taxis are your friend here, particularly if you get a good local one with the same driver each time. I would tell her that you are unable to do some of the appointments due to work but that you wil help her find a private company that can help out.

Have you had any therapy around this? If not I would recommend finding a therapist to help you with this.

This is hard because you know what you need to do, and that's leave her to sort herself out for a lot of this stuff. You know the consequence of doing this, is emotional abuse and her telling everyone she meets you're awful. You need to accept that she will do this and put measures in where you need to. There are messaging systems for phones that mean people can only contact you/you only get their messages or calls at specific points/times of day. Send her a big old list of everything she needs - gp number, taxi number, pharmacy details, social services, some local pa/elderly support services. Let her know when/how you're available to her (you need to think this through, what's reasonable, what protects your own commitments), consequences for "bad" behaviour and what she can /can't do in relation to you. She will tell you this is all awful you're useless, you're a bad daughter etc etc. Know that this is not true, also know that you can't change her mind, also genuinely try and feel like you don't care what she says to who. You might want to invest in some counselling to help you draw up/bounce ideas on your boundaries and also help bolster your self confidence, so that you can ignore her nonsense. They might also help you role play some if the interactions. The fact this has carried on so long, the fact you still care, are all signs you're a lovely daughter and a caring person. Don't forget that.
My grandma was like this, I remember my mum (after therapy) saying "you can never change someone's behaviour or make them into something else, the only behaviour you can manage or change is your own. So if you want a situation to change, it's you that's got to decide how you want to behave". Your mum won't suddenly appreciate you, or become nicer, and no matter how amazing you are, or however you bend for her, she'll never be appreciative. So if you want things to be better for you, and to protect your peace, then you'll have to go through with some changes, no matter what she says to you. Don't hope for her behaviour to change, you can't change it, hope that your own behaviours and approaches to it all serve you well.

She will have to book a taxi or arrange hospital transport. Trust me she will manage. Be kind to yourself. X

Op my mum is exactly like you in that shes been emotionally abused by her narcissistic mother all of her life. Guilt and obligation come as part of the abuse package in these situations. You have been conditioned into thinking you are a bad person every single time you dare to put your own feelings first or set boundaries which you are fully entitled to you. The biggest challenge for you will be to work on these emotions to enable you to realise that you do not need to put up with this any longer. You need to love yourself and put yourself first and stop convincing yourself that you must do things to stop being a bad person because you are absolutely the opposite of bad.

Sorry to hear this. I have no advice as it Sounds like my mum. Past events from many years ago are always bought up. I can’t never do anything right. I’m the only family member she talks to, my siblings stopped contact over 10 years ago due to this. She needs help, but doesn’t accept that. It’s sad, I feel sorry for her, I feel angry and at a complete loose end.

My MIL is a very paranoid narcissist. She is very much like you describe your mother. Her toxic behaviour has led to the destruction of my family, as my husband is completely unable to enforce any boundaries with her.
She is entitled, controlling, gaslights, makes up accusations about anyone and everyone, constantly accuses people of "attacking" her and is so manipulative.
It took me a very long time to understand the family dynamics. She expects everyone to fall into line, cater to her every whim and regularly cuts off her children if they displease her, stand up to her or try to enforce any boundaries.
Your mum sounds like she feels entitled to your time and effort, despite you having commitments of your own. The only healthy thing to do in this situation, is to put in very firm boundaries, starting with telling her that you will not be able to help her any longer if she continues the blame game (a narcissist's favourite) and subjecting you to verbal abuse. Expect a strong reaction, but do not feel guilty and follow through on your boundary.
I have been on the receiving end of some of this, and luckily, she is not my actual mother. She doesn't like that I have seen her for what she is and have named it to my husband.
I can't recommend enough a lady called Helen Villiers. She has a Facebook platform, she grew up with a narcissist mother and I've just ordered her book to understand things better. I have had a lot of counselling (I would also highly recommend finding a good counsellor) due to the fallout from all of this, and once you see it, you will predict her next move each time.
You sound like a good person, do not feel guilty for moving away from harm. Children of narcissists can find it incredibly difficult to hold boundaries due to a lifetime of catering to the molds, rages and trying to keep the peace. I disagree that this is dementia, it sounds like she's always been the same. My MIL got much worse after the death of her husband, they always need someone to blame, manipulate and control.

How does she treat other people? Her GP etc?
It is very difficult to put the boundaries in place, especially if it all falls to you.

Has your mother always been like this? Or is it since she’s got older? My friend’s mum started behaving like this whereas she’d been ok previously. Turned out her behaviour marked the beginning of dementia. I don’t think it made it easier for my friend but maybe there are books / information through her GP that would help you to understand how to deal with it better

My mother would absolutely never talk to me like that and if she did id be asking her who the fk she thought she was talking to and she can find her own way to her appointments ! You need to grow a backbone stop letting her walk all over you or she will just keep doing it

My goodness! I am in awe of the responses here!!! Thank you all so, so much!! You wouldn’t not believe what a help this is, even though it’s sad that many of you have experienced this too.
@SharkPants this could be my autobiography!!
As many of you have said, it’s totally exhausting. However much effort you put in, try to do the right thing and put in any kind of “no, I’m not going to be spoken to like this” unleashes a verbal attack off the scale with the personal attacks and venom, she then becomes the victim herself, I’m mad, she’s old and her favourite……I have “attacked” her. I try very hard never to raise my voice, keep a good distance from her etc. Previously, she has tried to hit me with her walking stick. I grabbed her wrist mid air, to control her flailing arms and held them by her side, looked at her like naughty child and simply said “stop”. When I let her go, she scuttled off and I left. She then phoned my ex husband and told him I had gone mad and “tried to strangle her” and told him she thought I want to kill her (for her money)” He phoned the police!! She ended up having a welfare visit that she wasn’t expecting and they asked her what the relationship is like with her daughter, she told them everything is just fine! When they spoke to me (I arrived at her house just as they were leaving and panicked because I thought something awful had happened) they joined the dots with what had gone on. I think looking at me, they knew if I’d really wanted to hurt her I could and clearly hadn’t!! However it’s scared me to death that she can make up stories about me and go to these lengths. If I put in boundaries, she tells other people total lies. A lot of people do know what she’s like as she has absolutely no friends.
@FreeRider yes this!!! I have been though a hideous divorce. Sadly our breakup coincided with the death of my dad, so I have had the combination of his loss (which I’ve never been able to properly grieve) leaving a toxic long marriage and trying to support my mother. My exDH was actually arrested and charged with stalking and harassment and has a current restraining order. Far from helping me and recognising my abusive marriage (I know now I have been conditioned to “comply” by narcissistic people) she sided with him, told me I have brought shame on the family for divorcing and has sided and maintained contact with my ex. I don’t think she speaks to him so much now as he can’t be arsed with her, but was using her for a time to get at me. He has told her things she chooses to believe, from me being a serial adulterer, going mad, being an addict, joined a cult, you name it!! She uses all this as a mad weapon if I chose myself. About three years ago, I did contemplate suicide (briefly!!) as I really believed it must be me when the two people in my life with the most influence were saying the same thing. Fortunately, I have an amazing network of friends (who I think must be sick to death of my woes by now!!) but they have really looked out for me and kept me believing in myself. I owe so much to so many wonderful people, including you guys who have taken the time to write and help me now!!!
I probably do need therapy, I went once, but it cost over £100 for the session and I just haven’t got the money to continue. I am also so busy trying to keep my head above water. Despite having the divorce finalised and the court order in place for the sale of the matrimonial home, my ex is refusing to comply, so it’s likely to go back to court to get it unforced, but it takes time and money and headspace. My mother knows NOTHING about any of this. She sees it’s my fault entirely and uses any weakness I might have as a weapon against me. She doesn’t even know where I live.
I feel like I’m writing a total ridiculous sob story here, I’m really sorry!!!writing it all down does help!!
I suppose I do feel classically obligated to my mother, and of course yes, as I’ve said the fear of what she, even in her old age, is capable of. I am going to try harder with the boundaries, as hearing your stories has really helped give me the confidence that i am not being unreasonable as she makes me feel. No, it’s not dementia, she has always been like this, it’s just more distilled these days and since dad died I have had to spend a lot more time with her. She has never had to lift a finger her entire life, so I do have POA to do all her admin etc, but as she’s never had to do it, she has no idea what it entails and wouldn’t have a clue where to begin if I just left it. She can’t even work a mobile phone, let alone the internet.
anyway, I have gone on far too long!! Thank you, thank you so much for all your words, understanding and wisdom, I REALLY appreciate it!!!

If anyone treated me like that, mother, other family member or friend, I would stop seeing them and helping them. There are no negative consequences for your mother when she behaves so badly and abusively towards you. She has no friends because she is a horrible person.

What is her financial situation like? If she has money, she needs to use it to buy in any care that she needs and to pay for taxis to ferry her to her appointments.

There is no contract that says that adult children need to provide care and companionship to their elderly parents, even if their parents have given them a good childhood. In your case, you owe your mother absolutely nothing. If you cut off or drastically reduce contact, she is just reaping what she has sown.

A practical piece of advice, turn voicemail off on your phone. Remove the ability to leave nasty messages. Voicemail is such a burden. If people need to speak to you these days then they send a text or email if they cannot get through. You will miss very little I am afraid and it is worth it for the peace.
Grey rock, boundaries, share little, react little, don’t feel you have to find the solution, lots more of “that’s too bad…”and reduce contact.

Having put up with an awful mother, I just wonder why they think it's acceptable to speak to their children in such a horrible manner. They wouldn't talk to a member of staff in a shop or medical centre etc like this.

We don't owe these people anything in later life if they talk to, and treat us like shit.