How do you cope with an elderly narcissist mother?

[Podstable]

Is anyone going though this? My mother is widowed, in her 80s. I try to do my best for her, help her with practical things, finances, visit regularly etc etc. she is incredibly demanding, leaves very abusive messages if I don’t pick up, makes personal attacks and is very nasty.. always looking for problems and criticising and has absolutely no friends, won’t go anywhere and the only person she sees is me (and a cleaner who goes a couple of hours a week) I have made a big effort to try and get her known with social care and her GP, and ask for help in supporting her, but they say that unless she wants help they can’t do anything. I know I need to put boundaries in place (I’ve been told this a lot) but HOW? What is a boundary and what is reasonable? I’m so tired and depressed by it all.

Therapy was good but unfort they living to good old ages now lol. My husb is right she loves an audience and attention. If I dont play ball she plays the elderly and duty card. Its beyond draining. 80s ....

Reading your update OP, my advice will be to cut contact for a while for your own wellbeing. She’ll either manage without you or she won’t. Let her lean on your ExH the pair of them sound absolutely vile. Just tell her that you’re not accepting the abuse any longer and block her number for a set time period until you fell ready to deal with her. If she continues, do it again until she either calms or you feel it’s time to go completely NC. You really must look after yourself. I know it’s incredibly difficult and you’ve been conditioned to manage her and her needs. But you can do this.
Regarding her staying in contact with ExH, my parents and brother did this after my divorce. It’s another reason I’m NC with the lot of them. Their loss. I’m finally free to make sure I’m doing well and therefore I can properly look after my daughter who is not forgiving of anyone who treats her as less after seeing what happened to me.
Good luck OP ❤️

Exactly this. Remember that feelings aren’t facts, that feeling of guilt in your chest or stomach is generated by you, it doesn’t mean you’ve done anything wrong. If you can “sit with” the feeling rather than ringing her to make the feeling go away it will get easier and easier, train her and train yourself.

I’ve got better at actually trying to put a boundary in place, now I need to work on the follow through I guess!!

Yes, you do need to follow through. Or nothing will change. She's not going to change her behaviour because you opened your mouth and noise came out - the only chance (and it's a chance, not a certainty) of her changing is if she sees you actually acting strong.

I suppose it’s also trying not to feel guilty or selfish This is a you problem - it's about you handling your own emotions. You know you've been trained to put her needs above yours, and that you're her servant. So you need to think intellectually what is reasonable and what isn't, and then you need to actually learn to handle the difficult and unpleasant emotions that going against your own training , the training from childhood, brings.

I would do anything for anyone (including mum) People pleasing. It's nice to be helpful, but being a doormat isn't good.

I just don’t want the doctors or hospitals thinking I’m an awful person, she tells everyone I am. This is about you people pleasing and caring about what total strangers think of you. Why? Because you've been trained. If you genuinely want things to change and not to be at your mother's beck and call and be the target of verbal abuse, you're going to have to accept that this is who she is - the sort of person who'll play the victim and tell everyone you're awful. Either you go along with it so that strangers won't think badly of you, or you will have to grit your teeth, build up a stock of phrases such as 'I'm willing to help as far as I can, but I have other family commitments', 'I'm aware of how my mother speaks about me' and similar.

Also the phrase "what other people think of me is none of my business".

Am I uncaring if I stick to this boundary? No, you aren't. If you don't see that for yourself yet then take it from the people on this thread. No, you aren't uncaring.

but she is literally making my life hell, not for being old, just for being nasty all the time. I hear you, and I sympathise deeply. Unfortunately the only person who can do anything about it is you, and that means changing how you handle things and putting reasonable boundaries in place and enduring the uncomfortable feelings that come with boundaries at first.

Also have you considered therapy? it's the automatic go-to nowadays and actually it doesn't suit everyone, but for people that it does help, it can transform their lives. It might for you.

When my sister and I fell out with our mother, she attached herself to my XH. He was so needy and desperate to be wanted that he went along with it all even being down as her next of kin for hospital etc.

We live in a small town where everyone sticks their nose in your business. No doubt they were thinking he was a saint and we were cows but after years of her nonsense we no longer cared.

Good luck @Podstable. Make a plan and make sure you stick to it.

Thank you @ReleaseTheDucksOfWar !! Thank you for taking the time to write such a helpful and detailed reply!! I really appreciate this!! It really helps!! Are you a therapist? You should be 💐

OP, you sound an awful lot like my DW with her DM.

She has got worse as her social circle has dwindled for sure. Previously she could sprinkle a little of her frustration and negativity across a wide number of people, which helped her, and meant it wasn't so noticeable to people outside the family.

Now it's down to the last 1 or 2, she's very conscious not to unload on them. Her relationship with my FIL is horribly toxic, but they are entirely co-dependent. DW has 1 sibling who has gone NC with MIL once, and after recent events is on the verge of doing so again.

Just means that my DW gets it all, as she's the only person left.

MIL is entirely unable to manage her own emotions, and any anger or frustration is stored up and it just pours out when my DW is available.

She's alienating 1 GC due to her bigoted opinions, and the other GC have seen it all, and are all very wary now, which just adds to MIL's frustrations.

I feel for you, and completely understand how hard it is to just say "enough".

My DW is deathly afraid of ignoring the text or the missed call, or missing a weekly visit, just in case it's the last one.

MIL has form for leaving voicemails or texts saying how miserable she is, and how she's nothing to live for any more, hinting at awful things, and then not answering the phone or door for hours after.

It's so toxically manipulative.

I think counselling would help if at all possible - not necessarily to validate your feelings (although I'm sure this would happen), but to give you proven techniques to use to establish and maintain boundaries, and deal with manipulation.

I wish my DW would engage in therapy - I'm sure it would help, but so far she's been reluctant.

Tell her to get a taxi to the appointment. That’s what happens when she treats you like shit. She’ll either learn or she won’t but it’s not your fault she didn’t change.

I assume that if your mother is 80, you are a grown woman and my best advice to you is to recognize your own age and position in life and remind yourself that you are an adult who deserves to be treated as such. You are no longer a child living under your mother's roof where she has complete and total control over you. You no longer have to try to earn her love, walk on eggshells, or give into her endless demands despite poor treatment.

Look at any one in your social or professional circle who you respect and ask yourself, "What would they do?"

When it comes to boundaries, the thing you have to accept is that a narc will never, ever, ever honor your boundaries. They will push, manipulate, guilt trip, give the silent treatment, and basically use up all the tricks in their toolbox to get their way. A narc only cares about their own needs--so why are you afraid to care for your own?

The boundaries you set will be for yourself, not for your mother. You have to accept that you are never going to be able to reason with this person. A true narc will never be able self-reflect, take accountability, or sadly, change their ways UNLESS it is part of a manipulative tactic that is often short-lived until they get their way.

You have to be strong and remind yourself that she has trained you to feel guilty. Normal, healthy family bonds are not built on fear, obligation, and guilt. They are built on mutual respect, compassion, understanding, and love. Ask yourself what your mother has ever done to make this relationship work. Ask yourself if she has ever once felt guilty for how she treats you.

You need to set yourself free of this mindset of how others perceive you. That is all tied in to the way you were trained to measure your worth based on how others responded to you. You had to earn love, and you have seldom been rewarded for it, which has just make you work harder to try to earn it.

If you can't be objective in the moment, I'd write down a list of all the good things you have done for your mother (or others) as a reminder to yourself.

So start with telling her that you can't bring her to the appointment next week due to a scheduling conflict. If she gets nasty, calmly say, "I have don x, y, and z for you and do not deserve to be spoken to this way. If you are insist on talking to me like this, I will end the call." And make good on your word.

I'd also check out the books and FB page for Dr. Sherrie Campbell. She's an expert with this type of situation.

Get over to the Elderly Parents board (it's in Other). Find the Cockroach Cafe, you'll find other people with the same problems who can support you.
Remember, you always need to put on your own oxygen mask first and her right to make bad decisions doesn't mean you have to fix them.

Ive found understanding that Narcassism is in fact a personaliy disorder helped me manage my father in his later years.

I read up and researched learnt about Narcassism and Grey Rocking and absented myself to the absolute minimum interactions.
Her behaivour is vile and abusive and cruel.

Talking to a therapist or a trusted friend will help.
You deserve to be happy and free of this abusive person.

You can hardly call her a mother any more.

Wishing you all the best but truthfully is up to you now.
You can choose to remain in this relationship or just let it go.

@Podstable I'm not no! but ty :D I've done a lot of therapy due to a collection of much-too-close relatives and unfortunate events. In fact it can only do so much but it does mean I understand what's going on much better now.

I haven't read every post but @DiscontinuedModelHusband 's and @MyLittleNest 's are gold. @MyLittleNest has some excellent advice.

It's a mix of taking practical steps and using practical tips to manage the actual unfolding of events, and actually working on yourself to cope with the emotional side of drawing some very healthy lines.