SIL has stopped me seeing nephew

[Magmum13]

My nephew is 3 years old. My brother's partner has displayed some coercive controlling behaviours in his relationship, they split up regularly and she's often involved in conflicts with her family and sometimes ours too. I have managed so far to maintain a relatively good relationship with her. My nephew means the world to me, I see him and mind him regularly and have done since he was a baby including having him stay over with me.
My SIL has picked a fight with me, I should have seen it coming really and I'm cross with myself. It was over some wording in a message about a party invite. Very trivial. She thinks I was rude, I don't. She said some quite unpleasant things about me and blocked me everywhere so I can't reply. She's then asked my brother to get involved. I asked him not to and reiterated that to resolve the argument would need for her and I do agree to disagree and move on. In what I thought were private messages with him, I have explained why I think the enforcing of one party to capitulate in disagreements is a facet of control, I have also explained that her behaviour isn't in keeping with someone who wants a resolution and that instead my hunch is that he is being positioned to choose between us. She's then read those, and sent a rather explosive message to me saying that I am unhinged and dangerous and must therefore be kept away from my nephew. I've spoken to my brother who acknowledges that there's no truth in the suggestion that my nephew would be somehow at risk around me but considers himself in a difficult situation where he must prioritise the stability of his relationship with her. At a family get together this weekend where he would normally come and bring his son he didn't turn up. Other family members are reluctant to get involved as they say they recognise it will be them next and nobody wants to lose contact themselves,
I feel there is not much I can do here, and I'm not sure what kind of advice I'm looking for, rather it would be good to hear from anyone in similar circumstances and feel not alone with it. But if there is any advice at all I would be grateful. It breaks my heart not seeing him.

The birthday thing is a red herring because no sane person would go no contact with a close family member over such a trivial incident.

You both sound as bad as each other tbh.

And all the OP did in response to that was to make an in-joke.

Do you really think the SIL's reaction was rational? It would have been the easiest thing - the decent thing - to simply reply 'sorry, forgot about your birthday, let's arrange an alterative date for this Christmas Party.'

She so clearly had an agenda from the start and I imagine this is the last in a long line of dramas created by the SIL.

You've posted twice about it being on her birthday.

OP said it was NEAR her birthday. Not on it. The in-joke was because she celebrates the whole month, and they call it "month of OP". Which is lovely; but presumably was not intended to mean nothing else could be celebrated that month...

According to the OP the Christmas party invitation was sent to the SIL's family of origin (presumably parents, siblings, their partners, their children if older) and her friends - again presumably multiple people, some of whom are likely to be closer to SIL than the OP is, given the OP and SIL have never really got on, and to her husband (the OP's brother)'s family - again presumably quite a few people including parents.

The normal response to being sent an invitation to a party you can't go to is to politely decline the invitation, not expect a party with probably 20+ (maybe an awful lot more) invitees to be rearranged around one person who doesn't even like the hostess.

They both massively overreacted, but the OP then embarking on a very detailed written character assassination of her brother's wife, addressed to her brother in writing, is what they won't be able to come back from easily. The rest could all be thoughtless and lacking impulse control, but writing to your brother to tell him in detail that his wife is a horrible person and backing it up with unasked for unprofessional speculative diagnosing of serious abusive problems in their relationship is done in cold blood and there to look at again when all the "she said x and did y" has faded.

As for having an agenda - perhaps she was just hoping her SIL (the OP) would decline anything not all about her in November, and that she could safely do her duty by inviting her without expecting her to accept... They clearly never have liked one another but kept it civil until now because of brother/ nephew.

I thought the point was that she invited family members to a Christmas party on a date the OP had already set for her birthday party meaning that family members would most likely be invited to both and couldn't be in two places at once.

But seriously, what a mountain out of a molehill.

My SIL also went no contact over a completely trivial thing and we spent far too long trying to understand why she was so upset about that thing that she felt the need to cut us all off. The time we spent trying to understand her point of view, trying to discuss it with her etc, and she did not give a shit. We've since come to the conclusion that it wasn't the reason at all, she was looking for an excuse to cut us off and that was the only thing she could come up with.

Then we made the further mistake of thinking that she should have realised nobody would agree with her or think her behaviour was rational. We now realise that wasn't the point either, since her ultimate goal is to cut her husband off from his entire family.

I’m in a similar situation. It’s hard 🥰

I have a SIL that caused issues at every family event or on the family group chat. She was so used to getting negative attention she just caused constant drama. I decided I wasn't entertaining it and she noticed and didn't know how to interact with me. Other people in the family started to follow my example and it has totally changed the dynamic and the power she had over the events is now non existent. She still has her moments but because we don't feed her drama she just ends up on her own in the huff 😂

I’d sit tight and do nothing. She’ll want some free childcare off you soon enough.

I didn't call her any names like that at all, toxic or otherwise. There were things she wouldn't have liked in the message I sent my brother for sure but it was pretty reasonable, I understand why she was angry though. .
The month is not really all about me of course it isn't. We have made that into a joke. The whole family are in on the joke. I thought she would know what it was when I said it. That's why there was a laughing emoji. But that joke doesn't translate well, clearly, and that's what I said to her

Magmum13
This is where I'm headed I think. I've worked hard in my life to remove these types of people. I feel like I need to prioritise my peace and it might mean that I have to grieve the loss of a relationship that I love so that is hard, but I think this is the choice I'm faced with.
Thank you

op this seems a bit dramatic- relationships are difficult, I get things are difficult for you but just take things as they come and see how things go.

But she has the upper hand. You may be in the right but she can stop you from seeing her child and there is nothing that you can do about it.

You may be morally right but you are the loser as you have lost your precious relationship with your nephew. The only way to resolve this is to eat humble pie and apologise. I can see why this would stick in your craw and most people would struggle to apologise in these circumstances, but if you can't bring yourself to do this, you won't get to see your nephew.

You were also foolish to criticise her to your brother knowing how much control she has over him. It was inevitable that he would show her your messages.

Bluntly op, if you want to put the children’s welfare first, then your brother’s relationship with them is more important than yours, so what you need to do is step right back, especially since your private messages were shared. It doesn’t matter what is right. The children’s relationship with their father comes first.

You could send a card to your sil and say I am sorry that I have caused you upset. If you ever need help with the children, please don’t hesitate to call, you know I love them to bits. But otherwise I am stepping back as I don’t want to be the cause of more conflict. Wishing you and the children well.

And then follow through and keep out of it.

Probably the best advice on this thread. Thank you

Most people celebrate their birthday on a weekend day close to their birthday. The OP celebrates her birthday in a big way so highly unlikely that she'd plan her birthday party for a Tuesday night, is it? It's so obviously going to be a Friday or Saturday night.

And who has a Christmas party in November?!

This isnt helpful i know, but most families have a trouble maker like this, usually female too. This will be an ongoing walking on egg shells relationship until you have enough and the child will suffer from mums actions (not yours, mums). Not being allowed to attend family partys / get togethers and losing bonds with family who were once close to. Very sad but theres no reasoning with these absolute trouble makers

OP your brother sounds like a wimp, too.

Do a mild apology in front of brother/family and leave it at that, she would struggle to keep huff going. You say you watch your nephew, they might not want to lose a babysitter. as mentioned before , just don't react to anything from now on, but don't let her bully you. Blank smile and no commitment

OP, I totally get why you felt the need to reflect accurately on events. However (and it took my over 3 decades to realise), presenting logic to someone who is at fault and never accepts any blame, will never result in them accepting any blame. My mother is like this and I've gone no contact. I wish people had stuck around for me and not her, so I knew I wasn't going crazy as she insulted me for everything, but people who saw through her got cut off. If you do find yourself back in contact, I'd advise coming up with phrases that don't recognise your SIL as in the right but she will not perceive as correcting her. "That sounds like it was upsetting", etc. is how I survived the years when I wasn't strong enough to go no-contact.

Congratulations on your remission- I hope you stay in great health. It must have been a horrendous experience.

Your SIL may indeed be a nightmare. I think you should consider though that the ‘in joke’ about November may not have been that funny to other people. It may actually have been irritating others for a while now. (Maybe it should always have been a private joke between you and DH?)

I also think that you should consider why you sent DB a written denunciation of his wife’s character & their relationship, & whether it was constructive to do so.

in mg experience (I do NOT have a postgrad in psychotherapy) if you genuinely feel a relative or friend is in an abusive relationship, the best thing to do is sit down and discuss it with him/her in person, in an open way, so that they have the chance to be heard fully. A written denunciation is very different & in itself smacks somewhat of a controlling mindset. I am doubtful this approach would actually help someone subject to coercive control in reframing their situation.

So overall I am not convinced you are innocent of responsibility for this conflict. I am also not convinced this can be repaired, at least in the short/medium term - because your message will have done a lot of damage. It is very unfortunate that you sent it. (I wonder if you showed it to DH first & got advice from him on whether this was a good idea? I think second opinions in these circs can be very useful.)

I think the best you can do is to try to stop this conflict spreading to wider family & creating problems for DB - and that this might involve apologising to DB for involving him in this, and saying that you are always here if he wants to talk. And then leaving it. Completely! Don’t criticise your SIL to anyone. Don’t try to create pressure from other family members to let you see DN (this will cause huge problems).

I think it may be a long time until you see DN again which is very sad but at least you can avoid aggravating the situation & causing yourself stress.

I'm amazed at the naivete of those people defending the SIL. Who organises a Christmas party in early November? That is clearly deliberate. There's a family in-joke about celebrating her birthday, which sounds like a perfectly normal and sweet thing to do under the circumstances. The SIL must have known about the date.

The date of the SIL's invite has to be deliberate. But even if it wasn't, the Ops response is perfectly reasonable - sorry I already have plans - with the obvious joke about it being 'her' month. If the SIL didn't get the joke she has a serious lack of reading skills or humour.

In any case, even if she misunderstood the meaning of the Ops response, the Op reached out to try and explain and smooth things over.

The SIL has either deliberately created this tension, probably to alienate DB (seems likely), or is having some sort of crisis at the moment which means she is reacting in an entirely disproportionate manner.

There is a 3rd option, as some have alluded to, which is that the Op hasn't given us the full story and is actually the case of all the tension. However, on these boards we should take what's been said as the truth, otherwise we can never give sound advice. The exception being if someone contradicts themselves, or says things which make us question their version of events. In this case, the Op hasn't done anything to suggest that, and any suggestion that is the case is speculation.

If I were your SIL I’d probably block you from seeing my son too in this situation, sorry. Your texts about coercive control etc seem so OTT and the whole thing comes across as you being really petty because you didn’t get your way and don’t want to apologise. Your hill to die on obviously but don’t accuse her of not thinking of the child’s best interests when you’re also not doing that. Both of you sound like drama llamas. I‘m sorry to hear about your previous cancer but your initial
message sounds like it was rude and you allowed it to escalate from there.

What are load of tosh@CrocodileJen