Page 2 | SIL has stopped me seeing nephew

Magmum13 · 2025-10-01T07:41:48+00:00

My nephew is 3 years old. My brother's partner has displayed some coercive controlling behaviours in his relationship, they split up regularly and she's often involved in conflicts with her family and sometimes ours too. I have managed so far to maintain a relatively good relationship with her. My nephew means the world to me, I see him and mind him regularly and have done since he was a baby including having him stay over with me. My SIL has picked a fight with me, I should have seen it coming really and I'm cross with myself. It was over some wording in a message about a party invite. Very trivial. She thinks I was rude, I don't. She said some quite unpleasant things about me and blocked me everywhere so I can't reply. She's then asked my brother to get involved. I asked him not to and reiterated that to resolve the argument would need for her and I do agree to disagree and move on. In what I thought were private messages with him, I have explained why I think the enforcing of one party to capitulate in disagreements is a facet of control, I have also explained that her behaviour isn't in keeping with someone who wants a resolution and that instead my hunch is that he is being positioned to choose between us. She's then read those, and sent a rather explosive message to me saying that I am unhinged and dangerous and must therefore be kept away from my nephew. I've spoken to my brother who acknowledges that there's no truth in the suggestion that my nephew would be somehow at risk around me but considers himself in a difficult situation where he must prioritise the stability of his relationship with her. At a family get together this weekend where he would normally come and bring his son he didn't turn up. Other family members are reluctant to get involved as they say they recognise it will be them next and nobody wants to lose contact themselves, I feel there is not much I can do here, and I'm not sure what kind of advice I'm looking for, rather it would be good to hear from anyone in similar circumstances and feel not alone with it. But if there is any advice at all I would be grateful. It breaks my heart not seeing him.

Poonu · 01/10/2025 10:38

She set you up. cannot win. Unless your brother leaves her she will ensure that he is completely separate from everyone. Sending hugs you know you're a good person. Unfortunately some people are just absolutely a- holes

Original poster

Magmum13 · 01/10/2025 10:40

Hoppinggreen · 01/10/2025 09:39

Do you want to be right or do you want to see your nephew,? it seems you can't do both

Edited

I can see why it looks like that :) I think I'm upholding a principle of my own integrity rather than trying to 'be right'. I think two people can consider themselves 'right' without one having to be wrong. The principle for me is that I can't be gaslit into saying I've done something that I don't think I've done. I can't collude in a process that I am seeing as being about a controlling way to pit family members against each other. I feel that if I do that now it will continue to be required and that it sets a precedent.

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MintTwirl · 01/10/2025 10:40

It really depends on the original messages. Nobody on here can know if you were rude and should have apologised. We also don’t know if your brother is angry with you for the things you said and show her because he was incredulous or if she snooped.

I’d be interested to hear it from the SIL pov.

Original poster

Magmum13 · 01/10/2025 10:44

MintTwirl · 01/10/2025 10:40

It really depends on the original messages. Nobody on here can know if you were rude and should have apologised. We also don’t know if your brother is angry with you for the things you said and show her because he was incredulous or if she snooped.

I’d be interested to hear it from the SIL pov.

I know and I'm tempted to write what it said because there's literally nothing wrong with it, but that isn't the point.
I think two people can think themselves in the right then agree to disagree. But much more importantly, say for example I had been particularly rude and said something like stick your stupid invite up your back side. Does that warrant removing a loving relationship from a child's life?
She is using my nephew to hurt me because she's angry. I can't see how anyone in good conscience could agree that it's in the child's best interests.

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Original poster

Magmum13 · 01/10/2025 10:44

Poonu · 01/10/2025 10:38

She set you up. cannot win. Unless your brother leaves her she will ensure that he is completely separate from everyone. Sending hugs you know you're a good person. Unfortunately some people are just absolutely a- holes

Thank you, this helps x

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Hoppinggreen · 01/10/2025 10:45

Magmum13 · 01/10/2025 10:40

I can see why it looks like that :) I think I'm upholding a principle of my own integrity rather than trying to 'be right'. I think two people can consider themselves 'right' without one having to be wrong. The principle for me is that I can't be gaslit into saying I've done something that I don't think I've done. I can't collude in a process that I am seeing as being about a controlling way to pit family members against each other. I feel that if I do that now it will continue to be required and that it sets a precedent.

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Ok so do you want to uphold the principle of your own integrity or see your nephew?
If you use language like that to or about your SIL it will do you no favours

Original poster

Magmum13 · 01/10/2025 10:46

Katiesaidthat · 01/10/2025 09:26

My moral for the future, don't feed the troll. She will have them all crawling on their knees begging forgiveness for all sorts of perceived midemeanors. I would pull back OP, painful as it is. She is used to conflict and will always win. You don't need that in your life.

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This is where I'm headed I think. I've worked hard in my life to remove these types of people. I feel like I need to prioritise my peace and it might mean that I have to grieve the loss of a relationship that I love so that is hard, but I think this is the choice I'm faced with.
Thank you

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Original poster

Magmum13 · 01/10/2025 10:48

Hoppinggreen · 01/10/2025 10:45

Ok so do you want to uphold the principle of your own integrity or see your nephew?
If you use language like that to or about your SIL it will do you no favours

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People should say and do whatever is asked of them, not matter how wrong it is, because if they don't, children can be used as weapons.
Got it.
Thanks

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HappyHedgehog247 · 01/10/2025 10:54

I would say sorry here. Even if the original message was nothing to get upset about writing unpleasant things about her to her husband/your brother was unwise. I'd say sorry in order to get access to DN.

lemonwrighty · 01/10/2025 10:58

My ex SIL and BIL were like this. Fortunately for us it ended in divorce but we unfortunately lost 3 years of watching the nieces and nephews grow up. She wouldn’t accept any apology (even though there was nothing to apologise for, it was to try and keep the peace) as SIL didn’t think it was “genuine”, she used her children as weapon for her own financial gain, showed controlling behaviour and she ultimately was looking for any excuse to separate BIL from his family and she succeeded during the duration of their marriage. There’s nothing more you can do if you’ve already apologised, just hope that one day he comes to his senses.

Whatisgoingonhere · 01/10/2025 11:01

I think we need to know what the message said. You might not see it as significant, but others might…?

Original poster

Magmum13 · 01/10/2025 11:04

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 01/10/2025 09:48

@Magmum13 Here are a few lessons learned from my situation with my SIL.

A couple of years ago we learned that my SIL was apparently very upset with us over something we had done, and that was the reason why we hadn't heard from her and BIL recently. We did not understand why she was so upset about something we considered trivial, but we reached out on multiple occasions to try to talk about it so we could reconcile and move on. She completely refused to engage with us, preferring to remain completely no contact with us. On the rare occasions we managed to get my BIL to talk about it with us, he just repeated her stance and said there was nothing to be done, even though he could not articulate why what we had done was actually a problem. The situation has continued to escalate and in recent months my BIL has been largely no contact with my PIL as well, who are no longer seeing their grandchildren as a result.

If I could have my time again, this is what I would do. I would send a message to my SIL and BIL together, saying I was very sorry she felt the way she did, and that it had not been in any way our intention to upset her. I would then grey rock her as much as possible, doing absolutely nothing to aggravate her, being pleasantly boring when we were required to be in the same place, and essentially non-existent otherwise. And I would try to maintain communication with my BIL as best as I could.

You cannot negotiate with terrorists.

You cannot change the person who is the aggressor.

And you cannot resolve conflicts in this situation, because that is not the point.

I no longer believe that my SIL was actually upset by the thing she claims to be upset about. And that is why our attempts to talk to her about it were completely stonewalled. Because she did not want an apology, she did not want to reconcile and move on. It was a completely manufactured conflict which she always intended to maintain over the long term. The entire point was to go no contact with us and in doing so, isolate her husband from his family so that she could have total control over him.

I feel in retrospect that we played into her hands by trying to fix it and getting angry when she wouldn't engage.

If I had apologised for inadvertently upsetting her and then just engaged with her as little as possible and led an entirely blameless life from that point onwards, she would no doubt have continued to rant and rave about how my husband and I are the devil incarnate, but maybe somewhere my BIL would have been thinking, "But they apologised for upsetting you and since then they have done absolutely nothing to you. Why are you still angry?"

Unfortunately, because the situation has escalated, she now has more to work with when trying to convince him that we are evil people and that none of them should ever see us again. And because my parents in law eventually stuck up for us, she has accused them of favouritism and now she won't see them either.

There is nothing you can do with people like that. All you can do is grey rock them as much as possible and try to keep lines of communication open with the person or people they are abusing.

Some of this is verbatim what I have been saying. This is the most useful post so far, I'm grateful for you taking the time to share your story with me and your very useful advice.
Grey blocking is great advice, I wish I'd caught myself sooner in the set up but what's done is done.
I saw a quote this week from a therapist which said there's nobody more angry than a narcissist to whom you've told the truth. And ultimately, that is what has happened.
Thank you again x

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MissScarletInTheBallroom · 01/10/2025 11:04

lemonwrighty · 01/10/2025 10:58

My ex SIL and BIL were like this. Fortunately for us it ended in divorce but we unfortunately lost 3 years of watching the nieces and nephews grow up. She wouldn’t accept any apology (even though there was nothing to apologise for, it was to try and keep the peace) as SIL didn’t think it was “genuine”, she used her children as weapon for her own financial gain, showed controlling behaviour and she ultimately was looking for any excuse to separate BIL from his family and she succeeded during the duration of their marriage. There’s nothing more you can do if you’ve already apologised, just hope that one day he comes to his senses.

When someone has manufactured a conflict with you, they don't actually want an apology because their goal is to stay at war with you, not make up.

It's actually why, with the benefit of hindsight, I should have apologised to my SIL. Because being able to say, "she never apologised!" (even if there was nothing to apologise for) puts her in a stronger position than only being able to say, "her apology wasn't genuine so I don't accept it".

It won't make any immediate difference to the situation if the person's true motive is to prolong the conflict they started, but it might help the person they are manipulating (the brother in the OP's case, or BIL in my case) understand what sort of person they have married.

Orangemintcream · 01/10/2025 11:05

Magmum13 · 01/10/2025 10:48

People should say and do whatever is asked of them, not matter how wrong it is, because if they don't, children can be used as weapons.
Got it.
Thanks

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No one has said that.

It is up to you to decide which is most important.

Original poster

Magmum13 · 01/10/2025 11:05

Didshejustsaythatoutloud · 01/10/2025 09:50

Hate hate my fellow women weaponising their children. My boys grew up without their dad (death) and it hurt my heart. I cannot understand women withholding extra love from their children.
If you do this, shame on you
Op, I understand you love your dn but do not bow to this hideous woman. Tell your db to grow some balls

Thank you, sending love x

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Hoppinggreen · 01/10/2025 11:08

Magmum13 · 01/10/2025 10:48

People should say and do whatever is asked of them, not matter how wrong it is, because if they don't, children can be used as weapons.
Got it.
Thanks

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I have not said that at all
Its not right but its fact, if you want to see your nephew you need to keep your mouth shut so you decide
I think I am beginning to see where SIL is coming from now - maybe shes not keen on dramatic and flouncy?

Original poster

Magmum13 · 01/10/2025 11:19

Whatisgoingonhere · 01/10/2025 11:01

I think we need to know what the message said. You might not see it as significant, but others might…?

I've resisted because context is needed and I didn't want to look like it's a sob story. But, ok...

She created a Facebook invite to a Christmas party on my birthday weekend in early November and sent it without explanation to her family and friends and our family. For context, a joke between close family and friends has been made about me making my birthday 'all about me' since my cancer treatment. I had successful treatment but I'm relatively high risk of it returning. I don't just celebrate my birthday, I celebrate being lucky enough to be alive to have another birthday. My husband has nicknamed it [my name] awareness month. We make it humorous to disguise the fear I think, but whatever, this is the joke. So I replied to the invite and said is that date right, 6 weeks before Christmas? I've already arranged my birthday party for the same date and I could potentially just bring everyone but then it wouldn't be all about me (laughing emoji). I like the idea of this just that November is about my birthday.
When she said it was rude I said I wonder if the humour hasn't translated well but that I would've hoped she'd know me well enough to have asked herself that question.

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lemonwrighty · 01/10/2025 11:20

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 01/10/2025 11:04

When someone has manufactured a conflict with you, they don't actually want an apology because their goal is to stay at war with you, not make up.

It's actually why, with the benefit of hindsight, I should have apologised to my SIL. Because being able to say, "she never apologised!" (even if there was nothing to apologise for) puts her in a stronger position than only being able to say, "her apology wasn't genuine so I don't accept it".

It won't make any immediate difference to the situation if the person's true motive is to prolong the conflict they started, but it might help the person they are manipulating (the brother in the OP's case, or BIL in my case) understand what sort of person they have married.

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I do agree with you. It took a divorce for my BIL to come to his senses no matter what we said to him, he couldn’t see past his “perfect” wife in his eyes. He said it was difficult for him to explain why he made the decisions he did which affected his family and said love can be blinding. I think we are all just grateful that they have been separated a few years now and he is so much happier and healthier without her.

Original poster

Magmum13 · 01/10/2025 11:23

MintTwirl · 01/10/2025 10:40

It really depends on the original messages. Nobody on here can know if you were rude and should have apologised. We also don’t know if your brother is angry with you for the things you said and show her because he was incredulous or if she snooped.

I’d be interested to hear it from the SIL pov.

It sounds like she snooped from what I can gather. Yes I'd like to hear from her point of view as well, she hasn't really been able to articulate what she thinks of feels so far other than she's just very angry and I'm blocked everywhere so can't talk to her

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MissScarletInTheBallroom · 01/10/2025 11:28

lemonwrighty · 01/10/2025 11:20

I do agree with you. It took a divorce for my BIL to come to his senses no matter what we said to him, he couldn’t see past his “perfect” wife in his eyes. He said it was difficult for him to explain why he made the decisions he did which affected his family and said love can be blinding. I think we are all just grateful that they have been separated a few years now and he is so much happier and healthier without her.

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I'm so happy that he was finally able to break free.

Do you know what the turning point was for him?

elfendom1 · 01/10/2025 11:42

In not getting the joke, she obviously thinks you are the person who makes it all about you. You'll deny that of course, but the way you wrote about her to your brother suggests you are yourself a little controlling and in general it sounds like you need to lay off the old therapy,

lemonwrighty · 01/10/2025 11:45

@MissScarletInTheBallroom she had an affair and he found out, it was touch and go if he would take her back or not. We were supportive in a way that we didn’t speak negatively of her but expressed concerns, ultimately it was his choice what he decided. They separated for about 9 months then that’s when he decided he was much happier, told her he was applying for a divorce when he dropped the children back to her. Divorce was only finalised about a year ago and she got married to the man she had an affair with a month later

mindutopia · 01/10/2025 11:45

They can decide what works best for their family and who they want around their children. You seem unusually enmeshed with your nephew, to a degree that is probably unusual for an auntie. My BIL and SIL see our dc a couple times a year, send birthday and Christmas presents, have watched them overnight once at our house when they were both primary school aged (eldest is 12).

It doesn’t really matter what you think. He’s their child and they decide what’s best. I wouldn’t want someone I thought was being awful (whether you think you were or not) around my very young child, so sounds sensible on their parts.

Original poster

Magmum13 · 01/10/2025 11:54

elfendom1 · 01/10/2025 11:42

In not getting the joke, she obviously thinks you are the person who makes it all about you. You'll deny that of course, but the way you wrote about her to your brother suggests you are yourself a little controlling and in general it sounds like you need to lay off the old therapy,

I don't deny it! I make my birthday all about me because I'm lucky to be alive.

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Original poster

Magmum13 · 01/10/2025 11:59

mindutopia · 01/10/2025 11:45

They can decide what works best for their family and who they want around their children. You seem unusually enmeshed with your nephew, to a degree that is probably unusual for an auntie. My BIL and SIL see our dc a couple times a year, send birthday and Christmas presents, have watched them overnight once at our house when they were both primary school aged (eldest is 12).

It doesn’t really matter what you think. He’s their child and they decide what’s best. I wouldn’t want someone I thought was being awful (whether you think you were or not) around my very young child, so sounds sensible on their parts.

I don't disagree. If I thought my brother agreed that this was right for his own son I would see it differently, but he doesn't.

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