SIL has stopped me seeing nephew

[Magmum13]

My nephew is 3 years old. My brother's partner has displayed some coercive controlling behaviours in his relationship, they split up regularly and she's often involved in conflicts with her family and sometimes ours too. I have managed so far to maintain a relatively good relationship with her. My nephew means the world to me, I see him and mind him regularly and have done since he was a baby including having him stay over with me.
My SIL has picked a fight with me, I should have seen it coming really and I'm cross with myself. It was over some wording in a message about a party invite. Very trivial. She thinks I was rude, I don't. She said some quite unpleasant things about me and blocked me everywhere so I can't reply. She's then asked my brother to get involved. I asked him not to and reiterated that to resolve the argument would need for her and I do agree to disagree and move on. In what I thought were private messages with him, I have explained why I think the enforcing of one party to capitulate in disagreements is a facet of control, I have also explained that her behaviour isn't in keeping with someone who wants a resolution and that instead my hunch is that he is being positioned to choose between us. She's then read those, and sent a rather explosive message to me saying that I am unhinged and dangerous and must therefore be kept away from my nephew. I've spoken to my brother who acknowledges that there's no truth in the suggestion that my nephew would be somehow at risk around me but considers himself in a difficult situation where he must prioritise the stability of his relationship with her. At a family get together this weekend where he would normally come and bring his son he didn't turn up. Other family members are reluctant to get involved as they say they recognise it will be them next and nobody wants to lose contact themselves,
I feel there is not much I can do here, and I'm not sure what kind of advice I'm looking for, rather it would be good to hear from anyone in similar circumstances and feel not alone with it. But if there is any advice at all I would be grateful. It breaks my heart not seeing him.

This.

The fact that you have therapy doesn't mean that you are now a qualified psychologist or psychiatrist - your perception of reality is going to be different to that of any other individual, because that's how it works. If SIL posted and was also an armchair psychologist she'd probably be claiming that you're a narcissist (which is one of the favourite diagnoses put forward - exclusively for people who've disagreed with them obviously - by armchair psychologists and those holding tiktok/ Reddit/ social media "PhDs" in psychiatry...)

Your SIL may be all sorts of things - she may be a drama queen or controlling - honestly though so might you.

None of that means an aunt has a right to contact with a three year old nephew - you just don't.

It'd be healthier for all of you to bevless enmeshed, and just mutually grey rock tbh. Much less analysing of one another and trying to control one another all 'round.

If November is all about you (and of course it's wonderful that you're in remission - long may you remain healthy) for you and your husband then that's great for you, but doesn't mean that your SIL can't plan other parties in November - just decline politely and point out your birthday party is on the same weekend (did you invite SIL to your birthday party? Not that you needed to, but if you didn't, how would she have known? It's often difficult, with a big family, to avoid planning anything close to any extended family member's birthday just in case of a clash).

Just take a step back and stop engaging and let your unnecessary spat blow over.

This will all unravel in time, your brother will get fed up of her control and leave.

It just sounds as though she wanted to pick a fight; if it wasn't some wording in a text, it would have been something else.

Your brother knows how you feel, he just needs to come to the realisation in his own time that his partner is eventually going to isolate him (and his child) from everyone he loves. She sounds awful.

I would focus on my brother and just let him know that you are sorry for engaging in this conflict of opinion with her because it has not ended well for you (and your nephew).

Give it some time and hope that he may find the courage to stand up to her and agree to meet you with your nephew. If he's a great guy then he will be really sad at his nephew not being able to see his adoring aunt.

I think ultimately they will split up.

I'm not sure she's trying to isolate her husband/ the OP's brother from his family if she's doing it by inviting them all to Christmas parties...

But the whole month of November is reserved for you? Sounds a bit ott and main character. I am a cancer survivor as well and I care about seeing my family not about my birthday. She sounds unhinged bur you come across a bit narcissistic as well wanting people to not have any kind of party in November because it's your bday month.

I've been the SIL in such a situation. Maybe my story will help shine a light in another direction.

The offense that led to me drawing boundaries with my SIL (H's sister) was the last of many straws. She felt threatened by us coming to live nearby, which we did because FIL was very sick. And it was a cross continental move, done purely to be there for them all as FIL ailed. SIL lived in the village near her parents (we were in a neighbouring country 100 km away), but she felt that we were going to usurp her favoured status with her parents (lots of favouritism by PILs, they were actually not nice people) and as soon as we araived, she started icing me out passively-aggressively and - we later found - gossiping about us negatively to all and sundry, especially PIL.

When she finally iced me out so obviously that I asked her privately what was going on, she twisted the story to everyone - the WHOLE family - to make it seem like I'd attacked her verbally and been mean to her. She was crying and saying how hard she had tried to make me feel welcome, and here I was attacking her. Cue my bewildered explanations to my ILs, who had already been primed by her to think I was a troublemaker who had it out for SIL (I realise now, it was projection). I was, after all, a foreigner, so it was easy for them to think I was "crazy" and believe all kinds of nonsense about me.

My H tried to straddle the fence for a while and kept visiting with the kids (with my best wishes) but I stopped going to visit, since I had zero energy for this conflict - I was still trying to recover from the huge and utterly exhausting move, establishing my career in a new continent, learning the language, helping the kids settle, making friends and contacts, figuring out financial rules etc. I hoped my SIL would settle down and we could try a rapprochement in a year or two, but things just got worse and worse, and ended with SIL so blatantly exerting her PA icing tactics on our eldest daughter that my H could no longer overlook what she was doing, and then HE called her out.

I of course got ALL the blame, PILs were convinced I was poisoning his mind against them (egged on by SIL).

I too was deemed "coercive", because me not continuing to visit them - and being upset at the unkind way I had been treated by my SIL - meant that I was trying to force my H to stop visiting.

I was also called narcissistic, and it was noted that I had had problems with my father (because he was a serial cheater who treated my mother heinously), so that made me a mentally unstable rabblerouser and family destroyer.

The PILs got so aggressive and angry about me that my H didn't want the kids around them and stopped taking them.

So then the story was that I was trying to weaponise the children against them.

PILs became so unpleasant that H too eventually stopped seeing them.

Of course, that was my fault too. I was an absolute demon to them, horns and tail and pitchfork. I had cruelly destroyed the family, taken the beloved son away, taken the grandchildren away, I was a complete madwoman who needed to be locked up.

So yeah, when I hear stories of, "my SIL is narcissistic, has blown a simple thing completely out of proportion, she's coercive, she's crazy" - I'm always a little doubtful. Because I've been in your SIL's shoes and the stories spun about me had NO bearing on reality.

Maybe it really is as minor a matter as you say. But you seem argumentative and very determined to be right. Why did you send that message to your brother, about how wife was trying to get between you and him? That's meddling and trying to get between him and her! This is the kind of thing MY SIL did too. And it didn't make me feel safe with her at all.

You have come here with your version of the story and got the answers that you want, which is that you're SIL's victim and that yes, SIL is a complete crazy bitch.

Have you considered that maybe this was not the first time you've upset SIL? That maybe you're not right?

Maybe you should give yourself time and don't react. Let the dust settle. Be honest with yourself.

And think about the family dynamics - is your family dysfunctional, is everyone truly accepting of and pleasant to the DILs? In my case, my H's brother's wife was also excluded and gossiped about by SIL whenever SIL wanted to get her knickers in a knot, but at least they were from the same country, so the treatment wasn't as bad as it was for me.

A Christmas Party to be held on the OP's birthday? That is a particularly special day to her. So many other dates the SIL could have chosen so far ahead of Christmas or even December. Sounds deliberate to me.

OP enjoys her birthdays and made a joke. Pathetic reaction from the SIL who clearly has an agenda.

OP has been through a lot and doesn't deserve that.

It's hard to say who is in the right/wrong as we haven't seen the messages or know the history between you two. I'm sure your SIL will have a very different point of view.

However once someone is married, brother or not, you have to respect their spouse and sending them messages speaking negatively of their spouse is never going to go down well. I don't approve of some of my friend's partners but once they are married that's it - just zip it unless you want to damage the relationship.

You have no right to see their kid as an aunt so if you want to see him you just have to make nice or accept the consequences. Playing devil's advocate here, if I had a SIL who hated me and spoke negatively about me and wished my husband wasn't with me, I would also not want her around me or my child as I would find her toxic to my family life.

Thank you

On her "birthday weekend" is what she said - so not her birthday but the weekend before or after it. The OP has not said whether SIL was invited to her birthday party - if she wasn't, how would she know which day (if any) of the weekends either side of the OP's birthday might be the OP's birthday party date?

Thank you. I appreciate your input, and everyone's, that you've taken the time to give your opinion. It's all been very helpful to me.

I've got a post grad in psychotherapy.

It's not the party thing that's caused the explosion though, is it? It's this:

In what I thought were private messages with him, I have explained why I think the enforcing of one party to capitulate in disagreements is a facet of control, I have also explained that her behaviour isn't in keeping with someone who wants a resolution and that instead my hunch is that he is being positioned to choose between us

Even for same sensible people, it's incredibly hard to read an exchange between two family members or friends where you're criticised so strongly.
I think I'd struggle to ever get over reading something like that.

From your perspective it's a rational truth. From hers, you are telling her partner that she's controlling and manipulative. It doesn't matter that it might well be true, it's just horrible to read, and I think that 90% of people would struggle to forgive someone who wrote that.

The lesson is that if you ever need to have that kind of conversation with someone about a third party, you do it face to face, with your spoken words disappearing into the ether. You don't use a method where your words can be shared with all and sundry on a screen or on paper.

That may be the problem , you are looking at the Psychology not the person.
The best piece of advice aanyone gave me when I was pg was that the important thing to remember about baby books is that the babies don't read them

Tbh your updates make me more sympathetic towards her, which I didn’t see coming!

From her POV, you’ve sent a message to her spouse saying SHE is toxic and controlling. That would have been incredibly hurtful and threatening to their relationship to read.

You’ve also said she can’t organise a do because the whole of November must be about you- have I read that correctly?? If so, I am genuinely very sorry you’ve had cancer but I have never known anyone make that sort of statement, and i have a lot of people with cancer in my life, including in my immediate household.

Was she invited to your do? And f so, surely it’s a simple “Sorry Maud, not sure if you’ve realised but that date clashes with my birthday party?” … and if she hasn’t been invited, how was she to know?

Or is it that you haven’t organised anything for your birthday yet but just expected everyone to remember that November is “all about you”, year after year?

I’m sure you don’t mean to but from an outside POV, you are also coming across as pretty controlling, and I do think your message to her didn’t land as humorously as you intended.

I think she has reacted very strongly, but I don’t think it’s as unwarranted as you do, and I do think you both have elements to apologise for.

This argument mostly punishes your brother, your nephew and your wider family. It comes across that you are not willing to own your part and try and put that right. You can’t control whether she does, but you ARE in control of whether you do.

Who the hell has a Christmas party in early November? She sounds weird.

Thanks for reading my long post. If you have a postgraduate degree in psychotherapy it's a little surprising that you're firing such damaging written messages off to close family tbh. The ethics of doing this to family members who have not asked you to, and by written message, is very muddy indeed.

I agree with all of this.

You sound very me, me, me. Every single thing is about you. What about your SILs wants? All she has actually done is arrange a party that she wants which you can choose to attend or not attend. That’s it. You then replied with a text to her that was making her event all about YOU, and so she’s got annoyed at you. It’s HER event, not yours.

I think you are very unreasonable to expect everyone to keep the whole of November free for you to celebrate you. It’s very narcissistic to expect that. Everyone is important not just you.

To then tell your brother that you think his wife is toxic and coercively controlling is just crazy. The only person trying to control things is you - you don’t want your SIL to have a party when she wants, you want access to your nephew, you want the whole of November to celebrate you, you want to turn your brother against his wife with your unkind messages. Everything is about you. You are in the wrong here OP, not your SIL.

I’m afraid what’s in child best interests is not really relevant in context of argument and to be frank you are not the child’s parent and have no decision rights on the matter.
You have a choice - it’s up to you which matters more. Personally I would follow the advice and not apologise and not continue conversation either. Tell PIL that you aren’t going to apologise as you haven’t done anything wrong and if she wants to be petty she can be. However don’t ask them to take sides and let them say they aren’t going to get involved and it’s all very sad, surely it’s a misunderstanding to brother. Then it’s up to brother and wife if they want to miss out on family get togethers. But let PIL have some other opportunities so it doesn’t become you or GC situation.

If you have a post graduate in psychotherapy then you should be more self aware and be able to see things from another point of view rather than only latching on to responses which support you. Anw most people who are psychotherapist are mad as a box of frogs - something most psychology/psychotherapist graduates would agree with. most research is mesearch.

It's quite obvious which posters haven't experienced having someone toxic like this in their extended family.

'She created a Facebook invite to a Christmas party on my birthday weekend in early November and sent it without explanation to her family and friends and our family.'

Yes, so the SIL was trying to arrange a Christmas Party on the OP's birthday weekend knowing how the OP really likes to celebrate her birthday (month, even - good for her).

Do you not think the SIL could have chosen a different weekend - any different weekend - for her Christmas event knowing how much the OP likes to celebrate her birthday?

You really think that is unreasonable given the context of the OP's relief at being healthy and able to celebrate another birthday? Really?

Someone who knows a relative celebrates her birthday that month and wishes to cause trouble.

@Magmum13 Is her party on the actual day of your birthday?

Just to add the brother must have reminded his partner when the Christmas Party date was suggested 'oh that's near @Magmum13 's birthday, can we choose a different date for the Christmas Party' before the invites went out.

I find it impossible to believe otherwise.

SIL's response to the birthday month family in-joke makes it very obvious it was deliberate because most people would, upon realising, respond with 'oh, so sorry, awful of me to forget that's your birthday. Let's find an alterative date'

No, this person wants to stir up trouble.

This really says it all..
I'd follow up with you should have spoken to your brother directly... but I guess he could have just told her what you said.

If an apology helps you see your nephew again, why stay on a high horse.

Quiet honestly I think they both sound as self centered and dramatic as each other, but the OP's messages to her brother are on another level of lack of awareness. Given her education she should know better.

I'm glad the OP is currently cancer free and of course she can have as many birthday parties as she wishes, but that doesn't mean that the entire month of November is off limits to her brother's wife. Most people are busy in December and it's really common to have extended (rather than close) family Christmas meals, work Christmas meals, and sports club Christmas Meals in November or even occasionally late October or January in my experience.

Perhaps SIL simply didn't have the OP front and center of her mind when trying to find a date that works for her, her husband, her own parents, her in-laws, her own siblings and their spouses and potentially children old enough to have their own commitments, her closest friends etc. etc.