Hard to forgive, hard to love. 25 years of marriage.

[Lovernotafighter83]

I’d love to speak to anyone who’s been in a 20 year plus relationship. What is love supposed to feel like?

My H & I have been together for 25 years. We have three sons, both have good jobs and I’m grateful we have a warm dry home.

He has always been highly strung, more explosive type and I’m more laid back. That’s ok, we dig our differences, to a point.

He used to have major issues about me going out. It went on and on for years and years, but after a lot of hard work from professionals, he improved a lot. To the point where I’ve been away to a food festival for two nights each year for the last three years. However, it’s still in there, it still rears its ugly head but comes in small comments, off the cuff comments, where as before it got very bad - lots of abusive texts, week long lead up with shittynres, waiting up etc. but he did brilliantly changing that. However, I’m left with scars. So a small comment causes quite a big stir in me.

I’m the kind of person who encourages him to go out, see his friends, book a weekend away. I think k those things are so important. The last couple of years have been good, I’ve been out and I thought it had all gone away but it hasn’t. I get cold and distant when he’s like that and it leads to this huge vicious cycle.

Theres been a handful of occasions when I’ve been scared and I now get panic attacks in any situation where he’s moody/unhappy/angry and it’s about me going out. More vicious cycle.

He has fought hard for our marriage and wants us to be together forever. So do I, but not at the cost of the feelings I have so frequently.

is it normal to need counselling so much? What does love feel like after all these years? Is it normal to have panic attacks? He’s done some things which I find hard to forgive and they’re stuck inside of me and preventing me from being really loving, authentically so.

I’m so lost and lonely but I know from the outside how lucky I am. Sorry.

I’m new to MumsNet and want to say thank you to everyone; I wasn’t sure what to expect.

I’ve wanted to give this my all, initially for everyone else and us - for the life we’d built, but more recently for our boys but I know there are things that aren’t right

I want to be clear, he’s not a monster. When things are good, they’re good, we laugh, we joke, we love; but this thing is always there.

Each time something flares up, I go and gave healing to forgive and be able to love so we can move on. I’ve read so much about gas lighting and narcissism that I’ve wondered if I’m those things (he’s never said that to me).

I slept on the sofa last Saturday night because he was banging about and went moody when I went to the local university to see a comedian with a friend. He didn’t say hello to her when she arrived and was still aggrieved when I got back, so for me it’s easier to sleep on the sofa but that means deep anxiety all night. Anyway this went on the next day of course because I’d had a fairly intense three weeks of study and he’d picked up the dinners etc, so he was cross because I’d prioritised my friend even though we hadn’t spent any time together I had to laugh at this yesterday because he went to the pub last night, even though we’ve argued all week. But the difference is, I never care. I think he should go and blow off steam.

I raised it this morning, very calmly and he said ‘what, so I shouldn’t have gone out last night?’ ‘No dear, you should, but I should have been able to go out last week’

Im a buoyant, happy person and I love and enjoy life, but I haven’t felt 100% myself for a very very long time.

there have been other incidences along the way, which were blatant red flags and I have to own the fact I haven't acted.

When I picture him with another woman, I feel nothing but good for him. There’s no jealously or resentment, I would love for him to find happiness.
I presume that’s not how most in love people feel? I’ve felt like that for years and then I feel so guilty that I should have ended this before now; it’s not fair on either of us. Although I have tried several times.

what a mess. 😩

What he said about and to your son really should be upsetting you more than it is. That is because you have become trained to put up with his awful behavior.

My son became suicidal, as a result of his father’s behavior and the horrific atmosphere in the house. Your son can’t change this. But you can. He will be up and gone before you know it. And if you carry on with this he may never forgive you. And he may start to emulate his father.

I had months of that too. And it is devastating

My son is happy, in a great relationship and living a great life. I am just so glad I got out and made it crystal clear his father’s behavior was completely unacceptable.

I had worried he wouldn’t make it out of his teens.

I am so sorry for your loss.
It sounds like the trauma you are living with is like him putting rocks in your boat and weighing you down. Just because he isn’t sinking your boat altogether doesn’t mean you should carry on frantically learning new ways to keep your boat afloat.
Yes it is a huge upset (storm at sea) when couples separate, but you get past that and things calm down and everyone gets used to the new landscape (calm waters again).

Dont know why I’m all nautical imagery this morning but hope it helps. Wishing you pleasant paddling this weekend.

When I picture him with another woman, I feel nothing but good for him. There’s no jealously or resentment, I would love for him to find happiness.
I presume that’s not how most in love people feel? I’ve felt like that for years and then I feel so guilty that I should have ended this before now; it’s not fair on either of us. Although I have tried several times.
what a mess. 😩

I really relate to this OP and have done for years. DP is clearly a very unhappy man, and if he found someone else that bought any spark back into his life it would be a relief. I feel he is wasting his life in misery. At the same time that is not going to happen the way he is.

You ask if it’s normal to have panic attacks caused by your husbands behaviour? You know the answer to that.

OP

You feel as you do because your H is controlling you and has done throughout your marriage. Such behaviour is mired in abuse and is about power and control. He wants to keep you in a cage of his own paranoid making because in his head he thinks you are going to go off with another man every time you go out. This thing that is always there is his abuse of you.

He continues also to show you the nice/nasty cycle of abuse (the fun along with the abusive messages) which is a continuous one. Abuse like this is insidious in its onset and does creep up on people unawares. And now he is further starting on his sons. Abusers can indeed be quite plausible to those in the outside world but I am certain one or two people in your life have their own private based suspicions about your H.

This is a really damaging example of a relationship to be showing your boys because one, if not all of them, could well go onto copy their dad's behaviour in their own adult relationships. This is no legacy to be showing them OP, it really is not.

If you read Why does he do that? by Lundy Bancroft it describes what is happening to you.

How can you be helped into leaving your abuser?.
You have a choice re this man, your kids do not. No longer ignore or otherwise minimise the red flags (ask yourself why you did that?).

OP and deltapanda

These men will never find happiness and he would go onto control another woman in not too dissimilar ways as to how you are being controlled now. They hate women too, all of them.

@Lovernotafighter83 if I made you a cup of tea and said it contained 2% shit, would you drink it? That’s how your marriage is. He’s emotionally abusive and you should think about leaving as he will never change. My advice is to spend your money on a good divorce lawyer instead of more counselling.

I am married 24 years and our marriage is nothing like this. We get along easily, no huge effort required, we are kind to each other if the other is having a bad day. There is no bad atmosphere, no tension in the house, I couldn’t live like that. My DH is more outgoing than me, recently retired he is doing an MA (online) he is very excited about and has friends from a sport he does. He goes on sports holidays with these friends. I on the other hand like to read for hours every day and stay home. It’s not an issue.

I am Catholic but honestly I think you should consider legal separation or whatever. It’s not right to be punished for going out to see a comedian with a friend for instance and feel safer sleeping on your sofa.

I had this for years. Years and years of sulking when I wanted to go out without him, putting off and ignoring anything I wanted to do with him unless he wanted to do it, silent treatment and me constantly feeling I had to 'make it up to him' if I saw friends, often coming home from work late if I had plans so couldn't look after the kids and I had to cancel.... I was only useful at home doing all the housework and childcare so he was free to dip in and out with no responsibility other than the financial. I wasn't really a person, just an appliance. I thought because he didn't hit me or shout at me I had no valid reason to leave. Then I suddenly realised I didn't need his or anyone else's approval to leave and be happy, I didn't even really need a reason.
I thought the kids would hate me for it but turns out they were on eggshells too and he was even angrier when I wasn't around, I'd just been blind to it in my fog of insisting 'its not too bad and I must keep going'.
Ironically he was slightly better before I left him, but it didn't matter anymore. He wasn't my husband, he was pretty much just my jailer, and I deserved a life of my own choice too. My new bf is totally different, it's took me a while to get used to lol, but I can see even more now that the way before isn't normal. You deserve to live a life free of fear and be able to go out and enjoy yourself without the exhausting drama that follows. We dont live that long in the grand scheme of things, please go out there and be happy. X

I’d say it sounds controlling and abusive tbh if he won’t let you have any time to yourself? That’s not a partnership is it, it’s abuse and bullying. I’m not surprised you’re not happy. X

Listen to @AttilaTheMeerkat if you can, OP, and all the comments from women who managed to leave. They are wise.

We're only at 15 years but no, my husband has never made me feel bad for going out, or for doing anything for that matter, nevermind to the extent I have panic attacks. Not normal, op, I'm sorry. You shouldn't have to live like that.

Reading your OP utterly chilled me. I am sure this has been said already but have a read of Why does he do that? See if you recognise him as the friend or not.

Thank you @everyone

I will be purchasing the book that so many have recommended. 🙌

we had a conversation yesterday which lasted about five hours. I told him what he’s done has caused me to not love him any more and that I am not prepared to give any more. I explained that freedom is a low bar requirement.

in 25 years I have never seen a man sob so much. He was very heartbroken at being told I didn’t love him because of his actions. he was extremely apologetic and we talked about the vast improvement that happened last time we had couples therapy. I said I’m not prepared to go to couples therapy and that I have already done so much therapy, healing and alternative practices and he should go on his own.

He had found someone to see but I have little enthusiasm or hope for the level of change that I’m looking for. However, for the sake of our children this is the next course of action and I suspect the last if it’s not successful.

You are very brave. Try scaling your feelings (1-10) when you fhink about staying with him and when you think of the progress you would need to see. Give yourself just a few months to see a significant change in bith and stll—frankly—you should plan to leave. If he can make a significant change at this point he absolutely always could have behaved lovingly but chose not to.

Oh OP. Well done you for tackling this. It’s dead in the water now. Don’t be taken in by his tears. Get out and stay out.

I was with my ex for 20 years. It’s almost 5 years since we split and DAILY I am relieved I never have to tread on eggshells or justify anything ever again. The best of your life is yet to come. X x

You sound like an amazing person to have kept going as long as you have. In answer to your question it looks absolutely nothing like the experience you describe, which sounds toxic.

I’ve been married 33 years and whilst we’ve had the usual ups and downs, a long marriage has made me (us) very happy. That’s because we try to put the other person and their feelings first. DH has never once tried to stop me going out without him or moaned about it or anything negative really, he’s always pleased for me and wants to hear all about it when I get in. He wants me to be happy and actively does things to make that happen and I do the same for him.

Please take time to consider your own needs now. The sobbing and promises are only meaningful if they mean real change and it sounds like you’ve heard that already before…

Do take care of yourself.

Similar here after 30 years , I feel I have to justify if I want to do anything off my own back - especially if it involves nights away or in an evening - he has improved slightly but he too can be explosive, and yes I would say ‘highly strung’ - and yes I keep things to myself quite a lot if I know it’s something that will piss him off - it hit home to me when he commented on my lovely partnered up 40 something friend ( I’m 63) who seems to go out to things by herself 3 or 4 nights a week- he said ‘there’s no way I would put up with that -what’s the point of being with someone’ -
I honestly think I’m here as company and a housekeeper - and yes he too has done things that killed romantic feelings on my part - like you OP I do care, there’s no hate and I’m very proud of him professionally but he’s just no longer that nice to live with far too often - and I’m still unsure of where to go from here ,

I hope you figure it out, both of you.

Being able to go out with your friends is a basic requirement.

My wife currently isn't going out socially and I keep trying to encourage her to.

The reason she isn't is because she had an affair that almost broke us. 20 years together with kids.

Its taken some time but we are in a really good place now together. But appart from one very close friend who is like family to me she hasn't been out socially on her own since I found out about the affair.

Its almost like she worries that I will worry.
I do trust her now and I think that is the bottom line.

For you. I hope telling your husband you no longer love him is a wake up call. A big one.

Hopefully he can manage to pull his own head out and realise what he is losing.

If we can come back from where we are. Don't give up hope. The spark is always there waiting to give love back but it requires a lot of work. But please just be true to yourself. If leaving is what is best for you then don't force yourself to remain.

Why not start by ditching the 'explosive' and 'highly strung' language, and call him 'angry and controlling' instead?

Don't go to couples therapy. It's a snare. He'll turn around and blame you for 'not fighting for the marriage' or some other BS, but you can weather that.

Go to individual therapy aimed at helping victims of abuse identify the abuse and find their mojo again.

Thank you for all your stories, words of wisdom and encouragement; this chat has seen me through this weekend with more strength and gusto than I e had before.

My H used to be controlling and abusive; there’s no question about that. He sought help over a decade ago and made a lot of changes. What I have now is a hangover. He used to be explosive and now he’s more highly strung and some of this is age and coming close to losing everything several times.

He’s still got 5% lurking in there and what I mean by that is, I go out lots now. Nights out, days out etc. but sometimes there’s a comment, a look, a thrown back in my face a couple of weeks later. To him, these are throw away comments, but to me, I have 25 years of the old shit. That’s hard to swallow because everything is lovely. However, I still don’t have the freedom that I want and which I think is more normal and that is interestingly largely mental freedom. The feeling ❤️

However, I’m no longer prepared to put up with 5% nonsense. My panick attacks are few and far between but the ball in my stomach is frequent.

several years ago I used to worry about letting my parents down, and his parents and so on. Until now, I don’t care what anyone else thinks. however, grace, dignity and kindness during whatever comes next will remain for me.

if I really think about everything that’s happened, bitterness will creep in. Instead, I’m going to lovingly extend him the opportunity to get some help but I refuse to go into my 43rd year around the sun (next August) with this unnecessary weight in my life.

I have re-fallen in love with my H for or five times during our marriage and he heard that for the first time yesterday. I very much believe, like some of you, that with work and commitment, love can rebound again, but to a point.

well done to everyone who has fought and found happiness or left and found yourself. I’m at a T junction and the next few months are the end of a chapter either way.

stay tuned 🙌

Love and light to you all for your Monday ❤️

@mathanxiety
Why not call him what he is?
You've got a very strange objection.

@mathanxiety it’s kind of not the same - a lot ( in fact I would say majority) of the highly strung behaviour and explosiveness isn’t directed specifically at me - it’s work/business or politics etc - it’s kind of ‘in to the ether’ - still pretty wearing though