Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Hard to forgive, hard to love. 25 years of marriage.

81 replies

Lovernotafighter83 · 26/09/2025 18:15

I’d love to speak to anyone who’s been in a 20 year plus relationship. What is love supposed to feel like?

My H & I have been together for 25 years. We have three sons, both have good jobs and I’m grateful we have a warm dry home.

He has always been highly strung, more explosive type and I’m more laid back. That’s ok, we dig our differences, to a point.

He used to have major issues about me going out. It went on and on for years and years, but after a lot of hard work from professionals, he improved a lot. To the point where I’ve been away to a food festival for two nights each year for the last three years. However, it’s still in there, it still rears its ugly head but comes in small comments, off the cuff comments, where as before it got very bad - lots of abusive texts, week long lead up with shittynres, waiting up etc. but he did brilliantly changing that. However, I’m left with scars. So a small comment causes quite a big stir in me.

I’m the kind of person who encourages him to go out, see his friends, book a weekend away. I think k those things are so important. The last couple of years have been good, I’ve been out and I thought it had all gone away but it hasn’t. I get cold and distant when he’s like that and it leads to this huge vicious cycle.

Theres been a handful of occasions when I’ve been scared and I now get panic attacks in any situation where he’s moody/unhappy/angry and it’s about me going out. More vicious cycle.

He has fought hard for our marriage and wants us to be together forever. So do I, but not at the cost of the feelings I have so frequently.

is it normal to need counselling so much? What does love feel like after all these years? Is it normal to have panic attacks? He’s done some things which I find hard to forgive and they’re stuck inside of me and preventing me from being really loving, authentically so.

I’m so lost and lonely but I know from the outside how lucky I am. Sorry.

OP posts:
mathanxiety · 27/09/2025 01:34

What does love feel like after all these years?

It certainly doesn't feel like walking on eggshells and having panic attacks.

It doesn't feel like "he's a bit better than he used to be", when he used to be 100% abusive.

What would a peaceful, warm and dry home feel like, do you think?
Do you believe there has to be a necessary trade off, and warm and dry is a case of 'two out of three ain't bad'?

mathanxiety · 27/09/2025 01:42

Lovernotafighter83 · 26/09/2025 22:14

Thank you everyone.

we had couples counselling 13 years ago when we lost our daughter. We were both under immense stress and it was a very unpleasant time of blame. A few years later we had more counselling which was all around the going out controlling behaviour and we both went on to have individual counselling (controlling behaviour for him to address and coldness for me).

we have three children, I have loads of love to give. I’m definitely not a cold person naturally but I have so many emotional scars but he doesn’t understand it.

We’ve argued three times this week about three separate conversations about going out. He is a much better person than he used to be, looking back I have no idea how we’ve made it this far but he has put a lot of hard work in. He's not a monster, he can be very fun, he’s exceptionally loyal and trustworthy (in all other senses). He works hard for our family and is a fairly good Dad. It’s just this me thing, but it’s big to me.

Ive worked through this several times before and forgiven many things in the past by having alternative therapies and various healing practices. But I don’t think it’ll ever be as I would like. I’m a very free spirit and not feeling free has never suited me.

he would laugh and say, but you go out all the time and nothing is said, and in recent years it has got more like that but it will never be as id like. I’m very relaxed and think it’s not anyone’s right to stop someone else from doing what they want. I’d love to go on a yoga retreat, I could probably do it but I’d get grief.

I’m torn between counselling and trying it all again because of our history, our children and the life we e built, but I’m so tired. I can’t tell if I’m blowing things out of proportion and the bloody peri menopause doesn’t help.

He told our eldest son to Fuck off the other day and called him an arsehole (he was being a very teenage pain!). But that’s just not how I think children should be spoken to. He apologised later that day, but each time the damage is done. I recognise it’s human to her stressed as do I but there’s a line of respect.
anyway, this is probably getting boring.

I'm sorry you felt the need to get counseling for 'coldness'. It sounds very much as if someone had an agenda of keeping this abusive relationship legally intact.

Your H is a common or garden abuser. You are right to feel an apology after abuse is not forward progress. Every episode of abuse is corrosive and an apology does nothing to repair the damage, especially if the abuse continues.

Please call Women's Aid and ask for a list of therapists who understand abuse and the damage it does. Your 'coldness' was and remains an attempt at self preservation when trust was broken.
0808 2000 247

Would you run to embrace a dog who had snarled or bitten you a few times? No you wouldn't, because you wouldn't trust him.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 27/09/2025 06:13

A hard no to both joint counselling and trying yet again.

Abuse is not a relationship issue.

He’s the same as he ever was. And yes he is your common or garden abuser therefore your marriage to him is over or it should be.

What are your children learning from you both about relationships?. This is patently not the model they should be seeing and they are not learning the only acceptable level of abuse in a relationship is none. One of them or even worse all of them could end up copying their dad entirely in their own adult relationships.

Women in poor relationships often write the good dad comment or versions there of when they can think of nothing else positive to write about their man.

And you’d be free to go on your yoga retreat if you free yourself and your kids from your abusive h. You have a choice re him, they do not.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 27/09/2025 06:14

And do not get bogged down in your sunk costs because the sunk cost fallacy just causes people to go on making poor relationship decisions.

MayaPinion · 27/09/2025 06:42

You are in an abusive, controlling, relationship, OP. How would you feel if he left you? How would you feel if someone told you that you’d be in the same situation in 10 years?

bozzabollix · 27/09/2025 06:53

I notice you wrote ‘it’s a me problem’. No it isn’t. I don’t feel like this with my husband of 23 years, he’s happy for me to do my own thing.

I knew someone in this situation, weeks of silent punishment for going away or going out. I wonder how you’d judge someone else in the same situation as you. You’d probably suggest she gets out of the relationship.

AliMonkey · 27/09/2025 06:54

Married 25 years. Yes we annoy each other sometimes and don’t agree on everything and sometimes he’s not as thoughtful as he should be (but probably neither am I). I don’t think that’s unusual. But he’s never once made me feel like yours seems to on a regular basis. I am absolutely a supporter of marriage being a commitment that you don’t give up on without trying counselling etc. But you’ve tried and he’s still abusing you and you shouldn’t have to put up with it.

Gruffporcupine · 27/09/2025 07:14

Your DH is controlling by nature and, while this may come in ebbs and flows, he will never change.

You have to decide if you can live with that or not. I couldn't

mumonthehill · 27/09/2025 07:20

I think it is normal in a long marriage with dc growing and menopause looming to re assess your relationship. I am in a long marriage and we are definitely changing as individuals and as a couple. However dh is not controlling and I live life very much on my own terms with him by my side as he does. It is not always smooth but he does not make me feel as yours does. I think as his control has been going on for so long it will not change and you need to decide if you can live with it. I do not think you should have to and that you should look at all options.

PersephoneParlormaid · 27/09/2025 07:24

He’s effectively holding his resentment down for the majority of the time, but sometimes he can’t. This hasn’t gone away, he’s just managing it better. It’s up to you if you want to live like this for the rest of your life.

MagicLoop · 27/09/2025 07:29

Sorry, I don't think you sound lucky from the outside at all. He may have trained himself out of the more extreme reactions to you having a normal life where you can actually go places and see people, but a) what kind of man actually thinks like that in the first place?! b) he hasn't fully trained himself out of it, as he still makes comments and c) you are actually scared of him to an extent.

You are giving him far too much credit for his belated, partial and grudging improvement. Deep down he doesn't think you should be allowed to live as freely as him. Presumably because you're a woman. If you think that's 'lucky' for you, you have a worryingly low bar for what's acceptable in a relationship.

LivingWithANob · 27/09/2025 07:36

As someone who has just divorced after 26 years, although my reasons were different to yours, just get rid. He sounds awful. Controlling. Your life will be 100x better without this psychological fear

secureyourbook · 27/09/2025 07:38

It sounds like he still wants to control you, he just knows it’s wrong and makes more effort to keep a lid on it so you won’t leave him?

When you say he was explosive, do you mean abusive? Did he make you feel unsafe?

Keepingthingsinteresting · 27/09/2025 07:40

Lovernotafighter83 · 26/09/2025 22:14

Thank you everyone.

we had couples counselling 13 years ago when we lost our daughter. We were both under immense stress and it was a very unpleasant time of blame. A few years later we had more counselling which was all around the going out controlling behaviour and we both went on to have individual counselling (controlling behaviour for him to address and coldness for me).

we have three children, I have loads of love to give. I’m definitely not a cold person naturally but I have so many emotional scars but he doesn’t understand it.

We’ve argued three times this week about three separate conversations about going out. He is a much better person than he used to be, looking back I have no idea how we’ve made it this far but he has put a lot of hard work in. He's not a monster, he can be very fun, he’s exceptionally loyal and trustworthy (in all other senses). He works hard for our family and is a fairly good Dad. It’s just this me thing, but it’s big to me.

Ive worked through this several times before and forgiven many things in the past by having alternative therapies and various healing practices. But I don’t think it’ll ever be as I would like. I’m a very free spirit and not feeling free has never suited me.

he would laugh and say, but you go out all the time and nothing is said, and in recent years it has got more like that but it will never be as id like. I’m very relaxed and think it’s not anyone’s right to stop someone else from doing what they want. I’d love to go on a yoga retreat, I could probably do it but I’d get grief.

I’m torn between counselling and trying it all again because of our history, our children and the life we e built, but I’m so tired. I can’t tell if I’m blowing things out of proportion and the bloody peri menopause doesn’t help.

He told our eldest son to Fuck off the other day and called him an arsehole (he was being a very teenage pain!). But that’s just not how I think children should be spoken to. He apologised later that day, but each time the damage is done. I recognise it’s human to her stressed as do I but there’s a line of respect.
anyway, this is probably getting boring.

I’m sorry @Lovernotafighter83 , but I think he’s an abusive twat. I am not by any means a “free spirit” but I think anyone would be ground down by the treatment you’ve received. So he might not stop you going anywhere but he has by his behaviour trained you to worry so much that he doesn’t need to anymore, you are made to feel bad without him lifting a finger.

I would not want to spend the rest of my life living like that, but then I very much believe in the date better alone that badly accompanied.

You don’t deserve this and I bet you’d find it easier to give love if you weren’t being ground down so much, it’s no wonder you are cold with him and that’s not something that can be “fixed” by counsel(only, maybe, by him not being an awful person). Only you can decide what is next, but know you do not deserve to be treated this way.

Comtesse · 27/09/2025 07:41

I started going out with my DH in 2003. He drives me mad sometimes (and that is mutual) but I have never had a panic attack because of how he treats me (not even close) and he has never made the slightest bit of fuss about me going out at any point or me working away internationally for over a week at a time.

We do argue and shout at each other, but this has never been the slightest bone of contention.

augustusglupe · 27/09/2025 07:47

The fact that he’s controlling you and then also nice and fun as you say, is the very definition of abuse.
If he was horrible 24/7 it would be easy to run for the hills. He counteracts the nasty with nice to keep you. It’s not a you thing, it’s him.

You’re meant to be grateful because he hasn’t kicked off because you have 2 nights away once a year?!
I’d be having panic attacks too in that situation.
You are not the problem here. He’ll never change, not deep down.

DaffodilDaisyRose · 27/09/2025 07:49

I have been with DH for 20 years. We have been up the rocky road and back again. We talked of separating a few times. It’s never perfect far from it.

I stay because we have history, we are best friends outside of our troubles and we have a young DC.

I know one thing for sure. I would never seek out another serious relationship again no matter what the future holds. Never would live with a man, wouldn’t want to know about their personal life, family, friends, finances - nothing. Too much drama.

ExcitingRicotta · 27/09/2025 07:52

OP your post made me so sad.

I don’t think there’s a right or wrong here. Some relationship balance without work and some need work but that doesn’t mean they’re not valuable. But the way you’re feeling now is absolutely not ok. Does he recognise this and are you both open to further counselling?

Good luck

BellissimoGecko · 27/09/2025 07:56

Your h has killed your love for him by his controlling behaviour, and now he’s killing it more by his abusive behaviour to your dc. No, he should not be telling your dc to fuck off.

You should not need such a lot of counselling in a long relationship. Relationships should not be such hard work. You sound unsuited - a free spirit with a controller. How have you survived do long?

i don’t think he will ever make you happy; things have gone too far.

You need to feel safe in your relationship.

I’d leave him.

BellissimoGecko · 27/09/2025 07:57

And you should never have counselling with an abuser.

If you want counselling, have it on your own and be honest about your relationship history and how unsafe you feel.

thepariscrimefiles · 27/09/2025 08:03

Marriage shouldn't be this hard. Your husband has managed to suppress his worst urges for quite a while, but his true personality, i.e. controlling, abusive and aggressive, is slipping out more and more often and it's now directed at your children as well as at you.

Therapy on your own (i.e. not couples therapy) would probably help you come to a decision about whether to stay in your marriage or not. As is often said on here, the only acceptable level of abuse is none. His outbursts are completely unacceptable and if he is unable to manage them, I don't think that your marriage has any future.

NamechangeRugby · 27/09/2025 08:06

I am so sorry for your loss Op.

Did these issues exist before your bereavement? I only ask as I imagine grief that profound will change people's coping mechanisms and change a couples dynamic. Many can't be together after, so your marriage has survived at least until this point. Is that why you cut him slack?

He sounds stressed. Teens can really push buttons, even my very mild mannered DH has been known to use language he normally wouldn't. But he is kind and we encourage each other out and try to split the load to make it easier for each other - to meet friends, look after our health etc. If you do ultimately decide to stay together, encourage him to the gym and out walking with friends etc and maybe that would help his mood and it may dawn on him to relax and reciprocate to encourage you.

Re the yoga retreat - the one and only all inclusive week in the sun we have ever been to was towards the North of Ibiza. It is probably aimed at kids much younger than ours - but it was in a very beautiful place with loads of activities (tennis, walking, cycling, pool, beach, kayaking, gyms etc) and they offered a Yoga session most days - I didn't even realise until we got there - bliss! Something like that might be a good compromise if you wanted to go together, but have time to do your own thing during the day.

unsync · 27/09/2025 08:10

Leave.

Your life will be much better without abuse and control. This man does not love you or respect you. I don't even think he likes you. You are in a classic abusive relationship. His behaviour is literally from the textbook of abuse.

Get some support from one of the domestic abuse organisations, make a plan and then go.

CagneyNYPD1 · 27/09/2025 08:22

DH and I have been together nearly 28 years. We’ve had our ups and downs. The years when dc were small and we both had parents who were seriously ill were the hardest. But this is a normal part of life.

To answer your question @Lovernotafighter83our relationship feels safe, secure, comfortable, relaxed and supportive. He still makes me laugh every day. We are still attracted to each other. We’ve got each other’s backs. We have our tiffs/ irritations now and then but that’s about it.

What you describe sounds exhausting. As he gets older, your DH probably won’t change. He’s not likely to mellow with age. He’s more likely to get even more mardy and then cantankerous.

Not being able to go on a yoga retreat in case he kicks off is bloody awful.

I’m very sorry for your loss and completely understand why counselling was importantly for both of you.

But as we get older, our tolerance for bullshit wanes. I’ve seen this play out with a few friends/ acquaintances. I know a good few who have worked their arses off to keep their marriages going and a roof over their dc’s head. Then the children are older and something snaps. The straw that breaks the camel’s back comes along and it’s done and dusted.

I think individual counselling may well be the way forward for you so that you can work out what you truly want for the next 25 years.

Mangetouts · 27/09/2025 08:30

Another "lifer" here (25 years), my marriage is nothing like that. My DH isn't a sulker thank god. If he was the relationship would have been dead in the water a long time ago

Make no mistake, arguments and difference in opinions do happen. Over the years we've learned how to manage them (cool down and then talk about it).